Cutting Umbilical Cord Early Eliminates Stem Cells 139
GeneralSoh writes "Delaying clamping the umbilical cord at birth may have far-reaching benefits for your baby, according to researchers at the University of South Florida's Center of Excellence for Aging and Brain Repair — and should be delayed for at least a few minutes longer after birth. This new recommendation published in the most recent Journal of Cellular and Molecular Medicine (14:3) notes that delaying clamping the umbilical cord allows more umbilical cord blood and crucial stem cells to transfer from mama to baby."
ORLY? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Insightful)
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LOL. slammed by the 'professional' named, "trisexualpuppy"
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Re:Nice one, Timothy! (Score:4, Informative)
The bigger problem is that no blood is actually passed "from mama to baby". The maternal and fetal circulations are (almost) completely separated. Except for few red blood cells that accidentally pass (esp. around birth and trauma [wikipedia.org]), the placental barrier keeps the two circulations separate. Oxygen, nutritional material and waste are passed by diffusion, with no contact between the two blood pools. The reason for this is that the baby's blood type may be different than the mother's (because of paternal genes) and if the blood would have mixed, than there would have been an immune reaction against the baby's blood.
Delayed vs. early clamping affects the distribution of blood between the newborn baby and the placenta. The major determinant for this is the relative hight of each other, due to the rule of communicating vessels [wikipedia.org].
Re:ORLY? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know, I think newborns should be exposed to the free market system. If they cannot offer goods and services, they must not receive them. Providing free food, free shelter, and free healthcare to newborns is a slippery slope to a welfare state. /s
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Well, they willingly exchange pee for breastmilk...
Re:ORLY? (Score:4, Informative)
The kid's been attached to it for 9 months, and the last 2 minutes make _THAT_ much difference?
The cord is then under very different circumstances. At that point it is no longer bathed in a protective moistening medium and it is no longer getting nearly as much oxygen. Cutting the cord further reduces the oxygen level and gives it more surface area to dry out.
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Informative)
There are quite a few things relating to circulation that don't happen until a few moments after birth (i.e. blood pressure, heart rate, heart valve changes). Perhaps a stem cell transference has something to do with that...
There are several valves in the embryo's heart (such as the foramen ovale) which allows a lot of the blood passing through the heart to avoid the lungs. A lot of the blood coming into the heart before birth is oxygenated from the umbilical cord, so it can get pumped right out without going to the lungs.
When the lungs become functional, pressure changes cause at least some of those valves to close immediately, so that the blood is now forced to go through the lungs before getting pumped back out to the body. These valves should close almost immediately to avoid deoxygenated blood being pumped out. That's really too quick to be directly affected by the stem cells. They -might- have something to do with later changes, where those valves permanently fuse shut, I don't know.
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Funny)
"The kid's been attached to it for 9 months, and the last 2 minutes make _THAT_ much difference?"
To be safe, use the Helicopter Parent method and leave it on until age 18.
Re:ORLY? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes!
When the baby is pushed out through the birth canal it is *compressed* and blood is *sqeezed out* from the baby into the umbilical and placenta. I can't believe it took researchers so fucking long to figure out *basic physics*.
I was born premature and apparently needed a blood transfusion. The reason for the latter is probably because some doctor didn't want to wait a minute or so and wanted to be more "efficient". So DO NOT allow a doctor to clamp the chord for a minute or two after the baby is born. The baby needs that blood to thrive.
Re:ORLY? (Score:4, Informative)
"Probably" just doesn't cut it. While delayed clamping of the umbilical cord may have a number of benefits to premature newborns, there are several other reasons for neonatal anemia (and hence, your need for a transfusion of RBCs) that have nothing to do with the timing of clamping.
Also, several of the reasons for prematurity may cause birth with low Apgar scores. When a baby is born with low/zero heart rate or does not breathe soon after delivery, keeping it attached to the placenta is not going to give you better results than prompt clamping and institution of proper resuscitation.
Please try to exercise more common sense when you leave your opinions in a public forum. Oh, forget that last sentence, this is slashdot, after all.
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We saved cord blood for both our kids and and I remember the cord blood folks saying "we like to get at least 100 million cells for a good sample."
So of course I asked how many they got for ours and the answers were like 3 and 4 BILLION.
So while this may be true, it doesn't seem like they're exactly hurting for cells, based on my totally anecdotal account anyway...
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I don't know specifics or anything, but I would argue that:
a) birth makes quite an impression on both mother and child. It's reasonable to assume that this may trigger some reactions. Note that I said "may".
b) historically, a child would be lower than the mother for some time.
How will they know when to cut it? (Score:5, Funny)
Is there an upload progress bar on the umbilical cord?
Re:How will they know when to cut it? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, there is. It will stop pulsing. I've heard of cases where the baby was having trouble breathing, so they kept it going for half an hour until the breathing was right. As long as the cord is pulsing, the baby is still getting everything he needs through it. In most cases, the cord will shut down on its own in a minute or two.
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Re:How will they know when to cut it? (Score:5, Informative)
And I held and cut my own kids' cords - home births both of them, and the midwife said to leave clamping & cutting until the cord stopped pulsing, so I had to hold the cord until I felt it stop.
Surprisingly tough, too - it's like a rope of three blood vessels strengthened with gristle.
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Actually, it is connected to the baby's blood vessels. The branch vessels that they connect to collapse shortly after birth to seal off the cord.
Just after the birth of my daughter, the blood continued flowing in the cord for several minutes, leaving mother and child connected. Once the flow stopped, my wife's body started to try to expel the placenta even as I was trying to cut the cord.
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For example, is it possible or beneficial for both the baby and placenta to be outside the mother for a while?
I don't know whether it's beneficial for the baby, but it's certainly detrimental at least to some fathers [bilkent.edu.tr]. I sentence you to look at three placentas for making such silly suggestions!
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Will it continue to pulse while only attached to the placenta? For example, is it possible or beneficial for both the baby and placenta to be outside the mother for a while?
Yes, it only pulses while attached. Basically everything is still hooked in to the mothers circulatory system at that point, and the pulsing you are seeing is actually the mothers heart pumping blood through the cord. There is something called Wharton's jelly that exists within the umbilical cord which, if left alone, will cause the cord to "clamp" itself off anywhere from 5-20 minutes after the birth. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_cord#Physiological_postnatal_occlusion [wikipedia.org]
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I could see the cord to my daughter pulsing after the placenta was delivered. I'm sure it's not hard to find a youtube video of this.
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There's actually a pulse even after the umbilical cord is clamped. Pulse in the umbilical cord is generated by the fetus' or baby's heartbeat, not by the placenta. The placenta has no pumping motion.
After the baby is delivered, it is actually not "getting everything it needs" through the placenta. Even were the placenta still attached to the uterine wall, blood flow to that organ diminishes greatly soon after delivery -- otherwise, life threatening maternal blood loss might occur. Of course, an unattached p
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That's pretty cool..!
Reminds me of my mother (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Reminds me of my mother (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Reminds me of my mother (Score:4, Insightful)
My sister's cat is going to feel pretty silly about gnawing through all of her umbilical cords and eating the placentas. Next time I'll be sure to let Mittens know about the stem cells.
To be fair, she probably thinks we're the silly ones for wasting all those tasty stem cells on our measly one-offspring litters.
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WHO'S LAUGHING NOW
Your runaway father, apparently.
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Keeping stem cells (Score:2)
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The thing about stem cells is that they can reproduce and indefinite number of times. It's not until they specialize that you start running into things like the 50 generation limit.
(Though the cells being talked about probably aren't toti-potent stem cells, so who knows. Perhaps they do have some limit. But that's not the way to bet.)
So think of it as accepting a temporary weakness to strengthen your child.
"...delayed for at least a few minutes longer..." (Score:5, Insightful)
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A few minutes longer than.. what?
A few minutes longer than they currently do, obviously.
Also: Jaundice! (Score:5, Informative)
When my son was born a few years ago, the Doc didn't clamp the cord very quickly. Our baby also ended with a pretty decent case of jaundice and had to be under the "bili lights" for a few days, extending our hospital stay.
This can sometimes happen when the baby gets a big dose of red blood cells because he's a lot lower than the placenta (gravity) or because the cord isn't clamped very quickly. All those red blood cells die in a day or two, baby cannot break down/metabolize the dead RBCs correctly, and POOF, jaundice.
Just be careful. Jaundice can cause pleasant things like brain damage in neonates (due to immature blood/brain barrier).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin#Toxicity [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernicterus [wikipedia.org]
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Interesting correlation. My daughter stayed unclamped for a couple of minutes, I think mainly due to the chaos of a very rapid labor, and she also had to be treated for jaundice. Have you read any studies on this correlation? I would hope this study would have spotted something like that.
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Apparently it is pretty common:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonatal_jaundice [wikipedia.org]
(first paragraph says 70% of the time. Other reading says 50% of the time for full term newborns.)
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There is no correlation to the clamping or not of the cord. Both of my kids were born at home with a Midwife who did not clamp the cord until it stopped pulsing. Neither kid had any sign of jaundice.
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Ditto... and I was born in a hospital and hand my cord clamped immediately... and I had jaundice.
The funny thing is, I knew about the stem cell transfer 4 years ago; it's part of the reason my kids didn't get clamped until the pulsing stopped. That extra bit of time with an operational cord also increases the length of time until nursing is required in a significant way, and reduces the effects of any trauma to the baby during birth.
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I hope you are not presenting your anecdotal evidence as proof of your claim... because...it's not.
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My guess would be the midwife kept the child elevated more in this case than the other two, avoiding the problem of excess red blood cells entering the child. Did she lay the baby on your wife's breast or anything like that?
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My guess would be the midwife kept the child elevated more in this case than the other two, avoiding the problem of excess red blood cells entering the child. Did she lay the baby on your wife's breast or anything like that?
It's kind of amazing (and by kind of I mean not at all) how when you do what is natural, it all works out. It's almost like we evolved to have live birth or something.
Re:Also: Jaundice! (Score:4, Interesting)
Really?? Funny causation.
I was born premature and needed a blood transfusion due to *insufficient* RBC. I also apparently had a decent case of jaundice. Funny how low RBC seems to have "caused" same jaundice as high RBC you are talking about? Or maybe there is another reasons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonatal_jaundice
Now if you just read that you would have *maybe* figured out that there are multiple causes of neonatal jaundice and what your doctor did or didn't do probably had *nothing* to do with it.
Just be careful. Not enough RBC can cause pleasant things like brain damage in neonates.
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I was born premature and needed a blood transfusion due to *insufficient* RBC. I also apparently had a decent case of jaundice. Funny how low RBC seems to have "caused" same jaundice as high RBC you are talking about? Or maybe there is another reasons?
It's definitely possible form both cases.
Jaundice is caused by high bilirubin levels, usually caused by more dead RBC than the liver can process. Two of the ways that this can happen are too many RBC in general (where a normal percentage die), or too many RBC
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Yes, and that's why babies are born with a clamp, it follows after the baby and before the placenta.
Kidding aside, expose your baby to sunlight to assist in clearing up the jaundice.
My wife and I just had a very healthy son and decided on Lotus birth (i.e. keep the placenta until the cord detaches naturally, which in this case was 5 days). I have 3 other kids and never have seen such a happy, content baby as this time.
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Actually it was my mother who's been a RN for forever (has a Masters in Nursing) that told me that was the probable cause.
Not sure about an actually study, I'll ask her and see if she can dig one up.
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I was thinking the same thing -- my son, born recently had a high hemoglobin count that contributed to his Jaundice and a night under a few sets of blue lights.... Quite a high count, scary for a parent.
The doctor said it was likely due to an excess of blood through the cord at birth.
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My daughter was born and was expected to have severe Jaundice due to an Rh-D isoimmunisation of my wife (due to mismatching bloodtypes of baby Rh+ and Mother Rh-) and she was also expected to require a blood transfusion (we had managed to avoid needing a transfusion in utero somehow).
She did not have the cord clamped down very quickly at all (at least 3 minutes after birth), though gravity was not much of a factor though. She did require the Biliblanket for 4 weeks after birth, but she didn't have to be tak
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Neonatal jaundice is not a lack of Vit D. And all you need to do is put them in a little blue incubator in the more severe cases, or just feed them more.
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+1 funny
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It was not a joke on sudog's part, the treatment for Neonatal Jaundice is UV light [wikipedia.org]. The UV light changes the insouble indirect Bilirubin into a water-soluble isomer that is excreted by the kidneys.
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Sorry, we meant the same thing, but where I work we some times, informally, call it "UV light". In reality it is not UV, but only blue [wikipedia.org]. :)
I was sure I heard sometimes during my studies that the wavelength is UV and the blue is just for the effect, guess my memory is starting to fade faster than expected...
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exactly
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Actually, jaundice is a problem. Of course, it is caused by an immature liver that cannot process the porphyrin from the catabolism of dead RBC (porphyrin is part of the hemoglobin), but you treat Neonatal Jaundice because the excess bilirubin is toxic to the brain ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin#Toxicity [wikipedia.org] ). I agree that in each jaundiced baby there is a search for a cause for the jaundice, because some may have an additional cause (sepsis, Rh incompatibility, and many more), but the majority have
Optimal delay (Score:2)
I loved my umbilical cord so much (Score:1)
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Here's the actual paper (Score:4, Informative)
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Also, while you're on the pubmed site, you might be interested in searching for other papers about the benefits of "delayed cord clamping" vs "early cord clamping." There are only a few cases where early cord clamping is beneficial, apparently. I was able to find many more articles on why delayed cord clamping is beneficial than I was on why early cord clamping is beneficial.
For those who like evolution: It's also interesting to think that for millions of years, man did not clamp immediately after birth. U
Delaying is a bad move for the parents! (Score:2)
Allowing junior to get those extra stem cells means the placenta won't be as delicious.
Where it's clamped (Score:1)
Seems like when they do finally clamp it, it might be a good idea to clamp it as close to the mother as possible. Let the kid still absorb whatever is in the cord.
Oh great (Score:3, Funny)
I find this out 6 weeks late. When did having kids become like buying technology?
Seriously though, there are some cases where that might not be possible. My first son was an emergency c-section. I don't know how long it was before he started breathing but it felt like forever.
Thing2 was a scheduled c-section and I had him in my arms almost immediately. I honestly don't know how quickly they clamped.
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I find this out 6 weeks late. When did having kids become like buying technology?
Ha ha, your kid's obsolete! He/she won't be able to run crysis 2!
(Kidding, congratulations!)
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...so I see you did say "him" in there: sorry about the "/she" part.
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Unless Crysis 2 has Thomas the Tank Engine as an unlockable character, he probably won't be interested ;)
I knew this 14yrs ago (Score:1)
My son is almost 14. We had in our birth plan to leave the cord alone for a while so he would get the stem cells.
Unfortunately, it was wrapped around his neck, and additionally tied in a true knot, so when he came out pale and lifeless, the doctor clamped it off and handed me the scissors.
He turned out fine, BTW.
currently in practice (Score:2)
Re:currently in practice (Score:5, Interesting)
It's also old news that giving birth on your back without moving around is just about the most painful and inconvenient way to do it, but birth wards continue to promote this because it is also the most convenient position for the doctor.
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United states has one of the highest infant mortality rate in the world. Sounds like our Best medicine money can buy, actually sucks pretty bad.
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You may want to check some actual facts [wikipedia.org]. As of 2009, the US was 46th out of 224. This definitely isn't something to brag about, but it's nowhere near the "highest". It's not even 3x the lowest...
Re:currently in practice (Score:4, Informative)
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Comparing Infant Mortality Rates [wikipedia.org]
Old news. (Score:2)
Move along. Doctors have known about this for a long time. Real doctors, even.
Birthing centers already do this (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife and I decided to have our child at a birthing center, and this was one of the reasons.
I was very skeptical of not delivering in a hospital, but after doing some research I was intrigued. We went to the orientations at both a local hospital, and at a local birthing center. In both orientations I asked how long they leave the umbilical cord attached. The hospital doctors didn't see any reason not to cut it immediately, and kind of looked at me like "oh, you are one of THOSE people." The midwife at the birthing center said something like "We follow the most recent lifelong study completed by in which recommends leaving the cord on for due to the increased supply of stem cells." where X was something between 2 and 5 minutes, I forget the number now.
The linked article does a great job of pointing out that this isn't new. What is shocking is that most OBs don't know it. The only disadvantage of this is that it makes it harder to harvest fetal stem cells from the placenta. In our case, I don't think our donation met the minimum requirements (although we sent it in anyway). I love the idea that our son got a head start because we did what science has already known to be correct, and that perhaps someone else's life could be saved by the donation.
If you plan on having a child, it is worth every moment to do your research. And don't blindly trust the doctors.
Re:Birthing centers already do this (Score:4, Insightful)
What is shocking is that most OBs don't know it.
It's not that they don't know, it's more likely most don't give a damn.
And don't blindly trust the doctors.
Fantastic advice, OBs often capitalize on the stressful situation and play the "dead baby card" quite often to do things their way.
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Our 3 kids were born in hospitals, delivered by Midwives - the first in New Zealand, the other two in Australia All 3 times they waited until the cord stopped pulsing before they claped it and invited me to cut it.
IMHO getting your baby delivered by a midwife, at the hospital gives you the best of both worlds. Obstetricians can be a little gung-ho about intervening in the process of childbirth instead of letting things progress naturally, With our first the obstetrician was concerned at how slowly things
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Doctors can be idiots. Just look above at the comment titled "Also: Jaundice!"
This can sometimes happen when the baby gets a big dose of red blood cells because he's a lot lower than the placenta (gravity) or because the cord isn't clamped very quickly. All those red blood cells die in a day or two, baby cannot break down/metabolize the dead RBCs correctly, and POOF, jaundice.
I bet midwives from centuries past wouldn't have made that mistake. When did all this common knowledge (keep placenta at the same elevation or slightly lower) start vanishing?
You probably made a good choice.
And don't blindly trust the doctors.
That's the best advice. Never forget it.
Thanks for telling me now (Score:2)
It is safe to assume that this news has arrived too late for anyone reading this.
Mom owes me some stem cells!!!
Because insanely complex changes go on... (Score:2)
Many years ago, when I was a Usenet junkie, I frequented the abortion newsgroups and argued endlessly, pro-choice of course. (hey it was the 90's..I was bored.) I did some research and wrote this treatise [250x.com] on the incredible changes that occur in the circulatory system at birth.
For example, did you know that first expansion of the lungs actually reverses blood flow in sections of the central circulation? It's actually quite cool. In fact, as I wrote.."Immediately following birth, the umbilical vessels constri
Old information that... (Score:1)
the creepy thing about that is (Score:2)
it works both ways, for the mother too
you carry some cells of your mother's genetic profile, and your mother carries some cells of your genetic profile
i wonder how long after birth these genetic transfers persist?
years maybe? a cell or two here and there?
weird for the father too: have a child with a woman, and something with half of your genetic profile persists in her body
a little in the spleen there... a little in the brain here
creepy
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I also find the mitochondrial situation to be pretty weird. I mean, even if you get past the weirdness of bacteria with their own genes living in and dividing in almost all of your cells, in many cases even releasing factors which convince your cells to commit suicide, there's a whole other layer of weirdness that they all came from your mother.
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Such a great line it makes me sad to know the next opportunity I have to use it IRL, I'll probably waste it with some valid question.
Fortunately, I'm a cell biologist, so another one will probably come along eventually.
Other reasons to leave it attached (Score:2)
One of the reasons a baby is given a vitamin K shot at birth is to address their low blood levels at birth, which can also be addressed by leaving the cord attached until the placenta stops pumping and the cord turns white. This of course helps with other issues, particularly in having enough red blood cells to adequately transport oxygen to the organs. I hadn't heard the stem cell argument, which I'd be less concerned about but sounds like another good reason to wait.
Of course the main reason vitamin K is
A few minutes!? (Score:1)
What? (Score:2)
more umbilical cord blood and crucial stem cells to transfer from mama to baby
Who wrote this crap? Transfer from PLACENTA to baby, yes. From MAMA to baby, no. Absolutely not, under normal circumstances.
My wife is a Certified Professional Midwife (Score:2, Insightful)
And she has been saying this for years. Along with, don't take the baby away right after birth, skin to skin contact right after birth is important and let the kid nurse. Have your babies at home, you go to the hospital when you are sick and pregnancy is not a disease.
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Humans are the only animals with navels (Score:2)
Humans are the only animals with navels, grotesque intentional scars.
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You're thinking of Rob Reiner.
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Dangerously simplistic.
The world is more detailed and weirder than you realize. You would do better to grasp this fact and step out from the Dunning-Kruger zone.