India Moves To Put Its First Man In Space By 2016 242
An anonymous reader writes with this snippet from the International Business Times: "India plans to launch its first manned space mission in 2016, moving to become the fourth nation to put a man in space. Space scientists and senior officials of the state-run ISRO are preparing a pre-project report to build the infrastructure and facilities for the mission, estimated to cost a $2.76 billion. 'We are planning a human space flight in 2016, with two astronauts who will spend seven days in the Earth's lower orbit,' Radhakrishnan told reporters at ISRO headquarters in Bangalore. In September, India's Chandrayaan-1 satellite discovered water on the moon, boosting India's credibility among established space-faring nations"
2016 is a long way off ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I think a lot of it has to do with how we percieve numbers and time. I still often catch myself thinking of "one decade ago" as "1990". Anything more than a year or two from now seems a long time away.
Re: (Score:2)
2016 for India (at a cost of $2.76 billion) seems like a long way off, but it should be noted that NASA's similarly-capable Ares I isn't expected to be ready to launch people until 2017-2019 at a cost of ~$40 billion. The Ares I has also been under development since 2005, while the Indian launch plans have just been announced.
Then again, fixed-price commercial capsules from the United Launch Alliance or SpaceX (on their already-proven rockets [orlandosentinel.com] like the Atlas V) would be ready 2013-2015 if they received a few
Re: (Score:2)
Are they looking at concrete goals in a long term way - or is this just India's latest entry in the regional and global dick size contest they been pursuing so intensely? I see no reason to assume they they are, unlike any other spacefaring nation, pursuing the former rather than, like every other spacefaring nation, the latter.
Outsourcing? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
What will they be called? (Score:2)
--Greg
Re:What will they be called? (Score:5, Funny)
easy - punjabinauts
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Americans, Britons, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Sri Lankan, Egyptian, Indian... etc... people who crew boats are called "sailors". Likewise, people from all nations who fly planes are called "pilots" or "aircrew".
Why anyone thinks the nationality of a human being in space is so important that we ought to have 200 different words for "human being in space" is beyond me. This kind of petty nationalism may have served a purpose during the Cold War. Today it just tells us that if people are doing
Re: (Score:2)
Americans, Britons, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Sri Lankan, Egyptian, Indian... etc... people who crew boats are called "sailors".
Actually, in Japanese, the word for "boat crew" is not the English word "sailor".
Likewise, people from all nations who fly planes are called "pilots" or "aircrew".
What about the use of the word "Kamikaze" by American journalists and historians?
Why anyone thinks the nationality of a human being in space is so important that we ought to have 200 different words for "human being in space" is beyond me.
It would be a heroic achievement to just standardize chemical element names. Aluminium vs aluminum. Tungsten vs Wolfrum. For some real fun, try applying a universal international standard to weights and measures, or screw threads.
Re: (Score:2)
For some real fun, try applying a universal international standard to weights and measures
Erm, the Metric System ? AFAIK, the whole world EXCEPT for USA and some crappy island in the middle of nowhere use it.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, in Japanese, the word for "boat crew" is not the English word "sailor".
When Japanese sailors are referred to by English speakers they are described as "sailors", not as the Japanese term. But "taikinaut" is an English word, not a Chinese word. "Naut" is a latin suffix for "traveller". Chinese typically generates words for new concepts by simple combinations of existing words, so there is a generic word for "wheeled vehicle" and various added words for different kinds--I believe "automobile" is
Re: (Score:2)
The weird practice that there be a different English word for every nation's astronauts just reflects the strange place the space program resides in: a political and cultural bauble, not an essential activity for the future of the human race. It's sad.
Sad, but not surprising. Look at how we, as a culture, have treated so-called "big science." As soon as the [elitist snob]unwashed masses[/es], and particularly politicians, think that Fermi, or our various other big research labs, can come up with a solution for something, or create a fancy new toy for the Pentagon, they're willing to invest, but only the minimum, and feel it their right to demand a solution ASAP. They fail, however, to understand that such research labs need funding of a significant amoun
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah but i think even if an American Civilian built his own space ship and orbited the earth several times from space.. he could not be called an 'Astronaut'. That is a titled bestowed by NASA like knighthood and the Queen or something.
Re: (Score:2)
Juggernauts . . . (Score:3, Informative)
"The word is derived from the Sanskrit Jaganntha[1] (meaning "Lord of the Universe") which is one of the many names of Krishna from the ancient Vedic scriptures of India." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut [wikipedia.org]
Seems like a perfect fit to me.
In other news, Greece has reconfirmed its plans to send men into space, choosing to call them Argonauts. However, critics cite that their plans are "a few thousand years" behind schedule, and technical experts are skeptical of the viability of sheep skin space suits
Re: (Score:2)
I like Juggernaut but have a secret preference for Sivanaut (I realize I'm being narrow here), but I do like the concept. The dance of creation and destruction all in one. Sounds like the greater universe of space to me.
Re: (Score:2)
This is great news (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope for more international cooperation in the future. Sending up your own astronauts gets your country a fair bit of prestige. Sending up astronauts from other nations also gets you friends.
Good for them! (Score:2, Interesting)
Competition always fosters excellence in all areas of academics & sciences.
3 cheers for India! (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's hope they can make something sustainable and profitable (Hint: Manned space-based low earth orbit solar power stations are where the money is going to be guys).
Connecting The Dots (Score:2)
One datum to connect the report from TFA (and sadly but in fact detracting from it) and that elsewhere that the Obama budget contains no funding for Constellation:
If India launches people into space in 2016 it'll be the 4th nation but the 5th organization to do so. After China's manned orbital flights but before India's planned missions, two pilots earned their astronaut wings flying SpaceShipOne. TFA says they plan to stay a week, but the title does just say 'space'. After the Rutan Clan, every nation the
Re: (Score:2)
If India launches people into space in 2016 it'll be the 4th nation but the 5th organization to do so. After China's manned orbital flights but before India's planned missions, two pilots earned their astronaut wings flying SpaceShipOne. TFA says they plan to stay a week, but the title does just say 'space'. After the Rutan Clan, every nation the sends up a space mission will be 'after a private company'.
You know what's different between SpaceShipOne and everyone else on your list?
SpaceShipOne didn't get into orbit. It was just a really tall hop above the planet surface, but that's it. Going from there to orbit is a large step.
Space Appendage (Score:2)
The American Mid-Life crisis (Score:3, Interesting)
It is a common error to delude oneself into believing the trappings of power and strength are power and strength themselves. You see it all the time, when folks fritter away their home equity loans on big-vroom SUVs and fancy appliances, allowing ourselves the delusion (for a temporary while) that we've still "got it made", as long as they have these things around them. In truth, had we the wisdom to forgo these external symbols of a comfortable existence, the American Dream would be much more alive today.
I perceive the response to the U.S. withdrawl from manned space exploration in much the same way. "Asia is taking the lead because they're still launching Spam-in-a-Can into space! Therefore, we need to launch more Spam-in-a-Can, and it will make us stronger!" I find there's a certain cargo-cult mistaking of which was cause, and which was effect. In the past, we have had a great deal of technological innovations associated with the space exploration program -- but it is a mistake to think because we're launching rockets we're driving innovation. It is was exactly the other way around; because we had a such strong base in engineering and science we were able to create the technologies to launch those rockets.
China and India's increasing economic and technological competence are what have allowed them to take the lead now, and it's a mistake to think that we can stay ahead if we just keep up with appearances. We can play mid-life crisis and blow our remaining resources on the equivalent of a fancy sports car, and make-believe we're still a studly, vigorous nation. But to the rest of the world, we just look increasingly ridiculous.
Space vs. Software (Score:2)
Space vs. Software
For the sake of whoever is getting sent up, I hope that they build spacecraft better than they build software, because all of the software I've seen written over there has been pretty damn awful.
I hope EVERYBODY builds spacecraft better than they build software. India does not have a monopoly on crappy software by any means; it's pretty much the status quo for almost everyone.
-- Terry
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Nations like India suffer from significant brain drain. Majority of people skilled and motivated enough are either preoccupied with immigrating to greener pastures if they haven't done so already.
What is left behind is a a workforce skewed towards young, inexperienced people, largely emitted from the burgeoning 6 month short courser industry.
There is definitely a substantial difference
Re: (Score:2)
A typo, albeit an ironic one considering current economic fortunes.
Re:Space vs. Software (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't confuse ability with necessity. Remember the whole "fast, good, cheap: pick two" thing? When you offshore your software development to India, you're always aiming for cheap and almost always aiming for fast. It's not their fault that their clients don't care about the end-product actually being good. I've met plenty of good Indian coders and plenty of bad American coders. It's like buying stuff made in China - it's not inherently worse, but the goals of the people ultimately selling the product care more about getting it cheap and fast and are willing to sacrifice in quality. Yet my laptop, also made/assembled in China, is fantastic quality - because the manufacturer chose "good" over "cheap".
Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (Score:5, Insightful)
While in geo-synchronise orbit over every major continent, call center employees will be available to answer your computer questions both day and night.
Ha ha. Let's make fun of the Indians and run through the usual 'call center' jokes because nobody has ever though of that before, huh?
This announcement comes on the same day that it has emerged that the US administration has no intention of going to the moon, in a time when the US national debt clock has needed an extra digit added to it, when the US is still recovering from the diplomatic and geo-political catastrophe what was the Bush years, and all you can do is crack jokes about Indians because they have started turning a hugely populated and impoverished country around using the latest opportunities afforded to them by technology. Hmmm.
Enjoy your inflated sense of superiority while it lasts, because it isn't gonna as long as people like you sit back on the Apollo moon landing's laurels and fiddle while Rome burns. The developing world is emerging onto the world stage. The EU is already the world's biggest economy. China and India have poverty on the run and are making in-roads into LEO. What's the USA doing? Still putting out fires in Mesopotamia, trying to catch up to the rest of the industrialized world in figuring out how to treat people when they're sick, and figuring out how to stop consuming a quarter of the world's resources.
Yup, you go right on cracking your jokes. Ha fucking ha. You won't be laughing so loud when you see the red flag of China over the Sea of Tranquility.
Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Go wooosh yourself.
Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (Score:5, Insightful)
This might be taken as being anti-American, but it's not. Really, it's not.
I live in Scotland. My country is a lot older than America, to the extent that my house has trees in the garden that predate the USA. Somewhere round about the time that the Declaration of Independence was being signed, my house was having an extension built on an existing extension on the original house. We're the old guys. And from where I'm sitting, I can see the young guys.
America now looks like a possibly slightly backwards late teenager/early twenties guy, still pedalling around town on his outgrown BMX bike and making "Your Mom" jokes, while all the little kids that were too little for America to play with like India, Pakistan, Iran and China have now grown up a bit and got jobs and cars and girlfriends. And America really desperately wants to play, and throws his not inconsiderable weight around, but really until America grows up and starts acting like a responsible grown-up no-one wants to know.
America has slowly - over the past 20 years or so - made itself utterly irrelevant to the rest of the world.
Re: (Score:2)
He meant it would be Americans manning the phones to field questions from Indians.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought it was "mod opposite" day, when we hand out Insightful mods for being assholes.
Well put! (Score:2)
I'm neither Indian, Chinese nor American, but I truly hate the attitude so many American slashdotters have when the US loses out on some international comparison. I am doubtful that India will make it by 2016 unless they use re-engineered Russian technology, but the mere fact that India is trying while America is both staring at its own navel and running around like a headless chicken speaks volumes.
Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (Score:4, Interesting)
people like you sit back on the Apollo moon landing's laurels and fiddle while Rome burns
??? Mars missions? GPS? Comm satellites? Space Shuttle? ISS? Apollo was a military exercise, in spite of its trappings as a peace mission. The US would and could put a Starbucks on Pluto if it was in its immediate national interest. The same cannot be said of either India or China. They are just now reverse engineering US (and Russian) technology to do things done with room-size computers 50 years ago. Where do you think India and China got their rocket/computing/communications technology in the first place? And what's burning exactly? Also...
What's the USA doing? Still putting out fires in Mesopotamia
First, I remind you that both India and China have benefited enormously from the energy excesses of the US and Europe during the 20th century. There would be no US market for Chinese/Indian goods/services without the West's exploitation of the Middle East. In fact, the reluctance of both nations to sign on to any binding climate resolutions is based mainly on the argument that they should be allowed
Re: (Score:2)
Ignorant American culture (Score:3, Insightful)
IMF World Economic Outlook [imf.org] says India's economy was up 7.3% in 2008, up 5.6% in 2009, and predicted to be up 7.7% in 2010. China's economy was up 9.6% in 2008, up 8.7% in 2009, and predicted to be up 10% in 2010. Meanwhile the United States' economy was up 0.4% in 2008, down 2.5% in 2009, and predicted to be up only 2.7% in 2010.
People are keeping a very close eye on emerging market economies like Brazil, Russia, India, China, Mexico, etc. They have been behind, but that means they have a lot of potentia
Re:Ignorant American culture (Score:4, Informative)
Percentage gains in GDP are certainly important, of course, and are very helpful when talking about economies of similar sizes. However, when one economy is over an order of magnitude bigger than another economy (the US' economy is more than 10x larger than the Indian economy, even with the latest economic contractions), the percentages really don't tell the whole story. In terms of nominal dollar amounts, emerging economies aren't really growing that much faster than the US.
Last but not least, I'll point out that claiming that all Americans are ignorant is just as stale and tasteless as claiming that all Indians work at call centers or convenience stores. Just because some non-Americans have some exposure to some of the ignorant politicians and entertainers in the US, they have extrapolated it into this whole stereotype for an entire hemisphere. I guess that's just ignorance.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
and Obama hasn't actually changed anything, and isn't substantially different from Bush.
Yes he is. He can read.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe I should have phrased it, "Obama isn't acting substantially different from Bush in his governance".
Sure, I'll admit the guy is smarter, but it isn't making much difference with his actions. He's still mismanaging the country into the ground. (Part of this is probably because Bush wasn't really in control; his handlers, including Cheney, were.)
Re: (Score:2)
If it's a teleprompter.
Re: (Score:2)
If it's a teleprompter.
Ah, the old 'Obama can't read without a teleprompter' canard. I guess you haven't actually watched him in a press conference and compared with er George uh W um Bush uh uh...
Re: (Score:2)
Bush also didn't inherit an enormous national debt from a previous administration, did he? [huffingtonpost.com] No, I do believe he started out with a surplus... The sad thing is, somehow, the far right has managed to cloud the issue by calling into question the surplus [bloomberg.com], and, what's worse, spread the untrue and utterly ludicrous notion that Bush reduced spending. They mysteriously pull a few cherry-picked and sometimes completely fictitious numbers out of their hat, and *WHRRRR-CHUGA-CHUGA-CHUGA-CHUGA* there goes the spin machi
Re: (Score:2)
Bush was certainly not fiscally conservative. But he didn't actually start with a surplus. The National Debt increased every year of Clinton's two terms. The "surplus" that he produced was entirely illusionary.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It certainly needs some fixing. I don't know if what the current majority in Congress has in mind is "fixing" though. They have something significantly different in mind as far as an end-goal, it would seem (single-payer system). No, the current bill that is apparently stagnated is not a single-payer system, but many of the pushers for "health care reform" at the moment are in favor of a single-payer system.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure what a fair comparison is.
Ok, so the EU is a single economic entity. And their economic prowess is bigger than the US's. And I'm all for improving "my" (hehe) economy. I don't think spending more is going to do it and I don't think the current administration has any plan whatsoever along those lines. It's interesting; first they spent almost $1 trillion. Then they suddenly decide they need to fix the deficit. Seems a bit wishy-washy to me.
Of course, any time someone talks about cutting de
Re: (Score:2)
People make claims about the wane of western dominance in every U.S. recession. It makes them feel intellectual to go against the grain and naysay.
Besides, your point doesn't even make sense. 400 years ago, there wasn't a U.S. and there wasn't industry, so it's not a valid comparison. What does it matter if India and China had big economies in a time when the biggest economy was farming?
Re: (Score:2)
There wasn't modern industry, but there was economy. So your second point is as dribblingly retarded as your first.
Your post just demonstrates that you don't know much about economics, so I'd lay off the insults.
Re: (Score:2)
Trash and bash all you like, but open societies are superior,
Huh? India certainly has its share of problems, but where do you get the idea that they don't have an "open" society? That criticism would certainly apply to China, where censorship is the norm, but India really isn't that different from the US. You're not going to go to jail there for practicing an unpopular religion like Falun Gong, or criticizing the government. They do have religious tensions and associated violence in rural areas, but a l
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, you're saying that those two economies were larger than the economy of the Europe/Mediterranean region? Because that's the apt comparison... I'm not saying you aren't correct, I'm just curious as to what economies you compare them to. I'm also very curious as to what your source is... 400 years ago Europe had a far different economy than India or China, with industrialism beginning to take root.
In short, Citation N
Re: (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_%28PPP%29
Its sourced basically from one guys research, which some people disagree with. But with serious academic research that's practically a tautology.
Re: (Score:2)
Combined, Europe had a larger GDP than India in 1600, though China was very slightly larger.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
...though TBH it's slightly hard to look at Persians as "not-West" in this historical context.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Cue the 'fix the poverty' rants. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, India is an economy that needs access to space. There's no question of that. Between communication and remote sensing, space is critical to India's long term economic development -- and lifting people out of poverty.
The question is whether it is a good investment, when they can rely on the US and Europe -- at least for non-manned access to space. There is is India's tradition of non-alignment to consider. It is attractive not to be dependent on great powers for something so important. Also, expecting an investment in space to pay off in the short term is unreasonable. Twenty years off India might well become a dominant player in the commercialization of space.
But why manned? If people were computers, it would make no sense. But we're not. We have these irrational emotions that have to be played to get the most out of us. There is something exciting about joining the club of "spacefaring nations", more exciting than putting clever little robots in space. I can see Japanese getting inspired by that, but Japanese engineers are an unique breed I think. Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth. It only has one freaking degree of freedom, and this guy was waxing so poetic about it that he was moved to the brink of tears.
Right then and there I resolved never to invest in an American company that made washing machines.
Re: (Score:2)
Right then and there I resolved never to invest in an American company that made washing machines.
Really? It makes me want to never in
Re: (Score:2)
Really? It makes me want to never invest in a Japanese company that makes washing machines. It's a frelling agitator for crying out loud. Why does it need fuzzy logic at all?
I couldn't begin to do justice to this guy's passion for his work, but of course it's nuts to care that much about how to swish clothes more effectively. But the thing about mass produced goods is that what matters is marginal costs. Good design is the feature with the cheapest marginal cost of all. Maybe the computer control went in because it simplified the control system and made the thing cheaper to make, but once you'd done that it doesn't really cost any more to see if you can make it a tiny bit be
Re: (Score:2)
Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth.
I think you're misunderstanding. He was simply talking about a setting for angora sweaters.
Re: (Score:2)
but by what standards?
By the standard of building and maintaining their own aerospace infrastructure. I'm sure they'll import technology, just as the Americans imported the robotic manipulators on the shuttle and ISS from Canada, but the overall management of the American space program is American, in the same way the overall management of the Indian space program is Indian.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm fairly sure the USA is the only one to ever get humans out of LEO (on the Apollo moon missions). Russia (Soviet Union) has successfully landed unmanned probes on other bodies, however, including the Moon, Venus, and I think Mars.
Re: (Score:2)
Do turtles count?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zond_5 [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
ISS = Albatross (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The ISS and its direct predecessor, Shuttle-Mir program, has taught you and is still teaching you a great deal about long term habitation of space and methods of space assembly. Once those things are adequetly mastered in LEO, you need "only" radiation shielding and propulsion technology to reliably go much further; those can be relatively easily modelled. You really see no value in that?
Plus being an exercise in cooperation will end up usefull long term. As well as keeping the Russian space programme from
Re: (Score:2)
There will always be masses of poor in order that wealth may be concentrated for purposes good or ill.
Maybe it is more the natural state of affairs than an actual "problem" for the human race.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They will! But that's not the whole story.
While it is true that the Indian Government could be said to have more immediate concerns, a space program for a country of its size is not entirely without merit. The Apollo program employed over 400,000 people. People working in high tech jobs, all related to scien
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know what the net effect of the Apollo program was, but the line quoted above is just a variation of the "broken window fallacy".
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A little bit of perspective is called for here.
Yes, vast numbers of people living in crushing poverty are a drain on the Indian economy and a potentially destabilizing influence on its government. But India is huge, period. There are more people living in middle class conditions in India than there are Americans total.
Re: (Score:2)
Especially for the many millions of Indians without a basic education and sanitation. They'll remain illiterate and crapping in the streets, but they will feel extatic about their fellow Indian in space.
For fuck's sake! Why does this garbage still manage to evade the Troll mod? Read my lips, idiot. Money spent ON space is not spent IN space. It's spent on the ground creating jobs and driving innovation and education, all of which helps to generate wealth and raise people out of poverty. Speaking of education, when, pray tell, are you planning on getting one? Hmmm?
Money saving costs... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Money saving costs... (Score:4, Interesting)
You joke, but this is a strong sign of world leadership in science and engineering moving to India. Of course, it's easy to talk about a space program, and the US may return to funding space exploration with the next president (or even the next congresss), but still - it's a powerful sign. Troublesome or hope-inspiring depending on where you live, I guess, but I'm thrilled to see any country showing some vision.
Sadly, putting a man in orbit is more of a statement of a nation's abilities to land a warhead anywhere it chooses than necessarily it's commitment to space exploration, but I'll take what I can get!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ya know those fighter planes they make in the US, Russia and France.. ya know what all three countries have in common? Yeah.. aerospace research, how about that.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So when did a manned space program become a sign of world leadership in anything other than sending money up in smoke?
Did you know there are no shopping malls in space? All that money "up in smoke" was spent here on Earth on R&D. At worst it would be a job program for engineers, but we've seen that the spin-off technologies are worth far more than the cost of the program. The reality, of course, is that a manned space program is all about putting a smiling face on your ICBM program, which is both the key technology to military power in the nuclear age and one of the hardest problems in science and engineering.
If yo
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Roughly translated: "..And first Quickie Mart on the Moon in 2019!!!!"
Re: (Score:2)
Call me Pakistani!!! [fires away with sub-machine gun]
Re: (Score:2)
Which is exactly what will happen as NASA becomes a side issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Neither. Americans will just say it's a big waste of money and whine that their taxes are too high, while the US Government continues to waste gigantic sums of money on overseas wars and bailing out mismanaged companies so their stockholders don't suffer.
(I'm against high taxes as much as the next person, but some government expenditures are actually useful, like certain scientific research, and definitely space exploration. The Apollo program is frequently credited with pumping many many times more money
Re: (Score:2)
(plus high taxes aren't bad in itself; definatelly not bad if you see that they are being put to good use)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Rather a sad, sad contrast... (Score:5, Informative)
To safeguard our identity and culture, and to maintain the very existence of our nation, we will immediately put an indefinite moratorium on all immigration......To restore, with civility, the identity and culture of our homeland, we will provide incentives for recent, legal immigrants to return to their respective lands.
Emphasis mine. So, while I may agree with the A3P position regarding space and fiscal responsibility, it appears that this party wants to take an isolationist attitude regarding the American culture. Never mind the fact that some of the greatest minds in America were immigrants. Nevermind the fact that Werner Von Braun was a German born rocket scientist, turned American immigrant, turned leader of the Saturn V program that got our boys to the moon. Never mind the fact that jazz, one of our greatest cultural movements in America, was started by immigrants. Nevermind the fact that Einstein, one of the best known scientists in the world, that contributed significantly to our nuclear supremacy was also a foreign born immigrant. Nevermind all those pesky historical facts that show, time and again, that legal immigration both enriches and strengthens America as a nation. Nah, forget all that, A3P is going to put a ban on ALL immigration. What's more? They are going to start paying legal immigrants to return to their own country. Goodbye knowledgeable Indian, Japanese, and Chinese scientists, programmers, engineers, and technicians. Goodbye Mexican immigrants that provide California with one of its most delicious and plentiful types of food. In fact, goodbye all non-native American people as you, in fact, have descended from immigrants yourself. We real Americans don't need you here.....
Oh wait...
So no, sorry, I am not going to give any credence to a political party that proudly declares white nationalism as one of its creeds and mission goals. The hypocrisy evident in the quote above with regards to immigration and the historical contribution immigrants have made to American technical progress is as thick as it is nauseating. Take your political astroturfing somewhere. I, for one, would rather spend my vote writing in a candidate with absolutely no chance at election (and thus adding one more vote to the count that reduces a possible majority of ANY party) than support that kind of bullshit that A3P is peddling.
Re:Rather a sad, sad contrast... (Score:4, Insightful)
Posting anonymous so my mod points elsewhere don't vanish.
I have to agree with you 100%. This 3P movement seems nice on the outside and it does push for some good policies, but zero immigration is not a good policy. Without immigration, the US population would be on the decline. Not necessarily a [i]bad[/i] thing depending on how you view it, though.
Regardless. Some of the brightest minds in America started outside of our borders. I am completely FOR stopping all [i]illegal[/i] immigration, because it is exactly that: Illegal. Change the rules if you must so that what is being done now isn't illegal, but illegal is illegal. But banning ALL immigration? THAT is idiocy.
I'm also getting really tired with the constant pushing of it here on Slashdot. If the party and the principles were really fantastic and different and new and all that, then this kind of lame get-it-in-wherever-I-can advertising wouldn't be necessary.
Re: (Score:2)
Albert Einstein in particular wrote several letters to Franklin Roosevelt urging him to establish nuclear capability before the Germans.[11] These letters, especially one called the Einstein–Szilárd letter (dated August 2, 1939, but not personally received by Roosevelt until October 1939), brought American government attention and support to nuclear research.[12]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)