NASA’s Contest To Design the Last Shuttle Patch 164
rocamargo writes "The space shuttle program is on its way out, but the core of people who built and maintained it will live on. To honor them, NASA gave its employees the chance to design the patch that will commemorate the shuttle program, which is slated to end in September, after STS-133 flies. From the designs of 85 current and former employees, the Shuttle Program Office has selected 15 finalists. The prospective patches, presented here, will be voted on internally by NASA employees and judged by a small panel." I've been thinking a lot lately about the end of the Space Shuttle. For someone my age, the shuttle really *IS* space travel. I'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land.
On the bright side... (Score:3, Insightful)
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Not even close (Score:2)
On the bright side, commercial space flight is nearing the point of practicality.
The manned commercial ships are strictly suborbital affairs, and achieve a fraction of the velocity needed for orbital flight.
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Baby steps (Score:3, Interesting)
Figure that Virgin Galactic and SpaceShipTwo are part of the baby steps needed to get to orbital manned commercial space flight. They are kind of like the barnstormers that flew from place to place around the country back in the infancy of manned flight, taking people into the air as a thrill.
I seem to recall reading that WhiteKnightTwo, the launch ship series for SpaceShipTwo, will also be used for launching other Earth to space vessels. I wouldn't be surprised if a version of SpaceShipTwo, with a reduce
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On the bright side? if you mean at the point NASA was at in the early 60's doing only suborbital flights, then yes you are right.
Call me when Virgin get's something orbiting in a stable orbit. Or better yet, can launch and get close enough to the ISS to let tourists take photos with point and shoot cameras. THEN it's practical.
ESA, USSR, NASA, and even china are nearly 50 years ahead of commercial spaceflight.
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That whole 'put something into orbit' crap is old news. Very old news. As in over 20 years. Thats 2 decades. How old were you when Arianespace was started (thats 1980.) This is a private company making launch vehicles and in 2004 was responsible for over 50% of all satellites that were ever put into geostationary orbit (thats way higher than t
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This is a private company making launch vehicles and in 2004 was responsible for over 50% of all satellites that were ever put into geostationary orbit (thats way higher than the ISS)
REally... Then why is many of the EU governments FUNDING them and gave them a ton of cash.
They are not private.
Oh really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Have they sent anything into orbit? Have they made a trip to the ISS? Private space companies haven't even achieved what the CCCP did with the Sputnik over fifty years ago.
I had a conversation with one of the people who works at Canaveral. He said it's sad that they're about to destroy decades of work and knowledge of a community that knows how to build, maintain, and successfully launch vehicles into space. A lot of the real brains there are getting old, and if they aren't able to pass on their experiences to the new generation of spaceflight engineers, we are going to find ourselves severely behind in space travel and technology in general.
It's really a pity. The American idea of progress has turned inside out. Investment in spaceflight and the technologies to improve it is apparently is not equal to a month of spending for foreign military invasions. Not exactly a way forward if you ask me.
Re:Oh really? (Score:5, Informative)
Have they sent anything into orbit?
Um, yes, much more often than NASA. For example, the United Launch Alliance has commercially launched 36 rockets in the past 36 months [satnews.com], SpaceX has had a number of successful launches (and seems to have worked out of their growing pains), and Orbital also launches regularly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight#Commercial_launchers [wikipedia.org]
Have they made a trip to the ISS?
If you're include non-US companies, Arianespace has used their Ariane 5 rocket to launch an ATV to the ISS. If you're only including US companies, SpaceX will be launching a prototype of their Dragon capsule this month, with two missions to the ISS this year: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php [spacex.com]
Any other questions?
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The ULA uses government funded rocket technology (Delta II, Delta IV and Atlas V) to launch satellites by combining two teams from the largest recipients of government grants and contracts, Lockheed and Boeing. I'll cut you a little slack - this is the definition of "private" research and development in the United States.
The rest of SpaceX and Orbital only engage in sub-orbital flight, as I previously said. Restating that they launch suborbital flights isn't going to help the fact that they have never launc
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The rest of SpaceX and Orbital only engage in sub-orbital flight
That's funny, because I distinctly remember SpaceX putting a payload in orbit [wikipedia.org] recently, with many more flights planned.
Orbital has been doing, well, orbital missions for a long time. See Pegasus, Minotaur, Taurus, etc.
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That's funny, because I distinctly remember SpaceX putting a payload in orbit recently, with many more flights planned.
Ah. After the first three exploded, I really didn't follow them. They have put one sat into orbit, which is a huge accomplishment. However, keep in mind it's a max 165kg payload. The max payload of the shuttle is 24,000 kg, though the Falcon 9 is supposed to match that this year.
Orbital has been doing, well, orbital missions for a long time. See Pegasus, Minotaur, Taurus, etc.
Ah. Well, I was flat wrong on this point. Though it seems their rockets are based on the Minutemen and Peacekeeper rockets. In fact, you cannot use their Minotaur rockets for private purposes because they use military parts and thus
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Ah. After the first three exploded, I really didn't follow them. They have put one sat into orbit, which is a huge accomplishment. However, keep in mind it's a max 165kg payload. The max payload of the shuttle is 24,000 kg, though the Falcon 9 is supposed to match that this year.
Falcon 1 sends up to 650 or so kg to LEO. Falcon 9 can do 10k kg. The Falcon 9 Heavy is the one comparable to the Shuttle. SpaceX claims they will be able to send almost 30k kg to LEO. I don't know when they expect to launch a Falcon 9 Heavy, but I gather it's not in the next few years.
Ah. Well, I was flat wrong on this point. Though it seems their rockets are based on the Minutemen and Peacekeeper rockets. In fact, you cannot use their Minotaur rockets for private purposes because they use military parts and thus are not available for resale.
That's a bogus legal requirement used by Congress to screw an earlier attempt by E-Prime Aerospace [eprimeaerospace.com] in the late 90's to use the Peacekeeper missiles. I don't know who was responsible for it other than it most likely wasn't Orb
Re:Oh really? (Score:4, Insightful)
First off, SpaceX and Orbital don't "only engage in suborbital flight," but has designed and launched orbital rockets; in contrast, NASA hasn't successfully designed and launched a new orbital vehicle in around 30 years, despite plenty of attempts which have become case studies in poor program management.
Additionally, you're confusing two different issues: having space exploration entirely privately funded, which hardly anybody is advocating, with the issue of having transportation to low-earth orbit handled commercially (i.e. NASA, scientists, tourists, etc. buying trips to orbit), which many people are advocating. Even if a portion of the R&D for the rockets has been paid for by the government, what's important is that there's a competitive commercial marketplace for manned launches. That way multiple new approaches can be tried in parallel, proving new and more efficient systems with unmanned launches before transporting humans on them. Government-controlled monopolies tend to be suboptimal, to say the least.
mod parent up (Score:2)
Why? Because he's right.
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Not so. Space-X has done orbital flights with Falcon-1. In fact, last year they delivered a Maylaysian sattelite into orbit. True, they haven't done a *manned* orbital flight yet, but they have ground tested all the hardware, and are ready to make their first attempt next month.
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If you're include non-US companies, Arianespace has used their Ariane 5 rocket to launch an ATV to the ISS.
What do they need a 4x4 for on the ISS?
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Private companies have been launching (and owning) satellites since the early 60's.
That is, if you use the usual definition of private companies which equates to public ownership. (E.G. Boeing.) Private companies have only 'not accomplished anything' if you use the NewSpace/new speak meaning that equates to "only space fanboi ap
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Number Three... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Number Three... (Score:5, Insightful)
Only a few are good, but patch #3 is the best design, five shuttles, and each star represents a lost crew member. An excellent design. Its clean and stylish and represents several ideas.
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A number of the patches incorporate the idea of stars representing lost crew members, but I agree #3 is the best overall. The clean design is very appealing, and I like them showing all five shuttles*. #8 is flashy, but not in a meaningful way -- the shape is supposed to evoke a fine diamond or jewel? Who cares? #10 has a nice concept, the shuttle returning home, with stars showing missions and other stars showing lost astronauts. But the space field is too cluttered with random stuff yet would look to
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Well, that depends... (Score:4, Funny)
What bugs is it supposed to fix?
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How Many shuttles? (Score:3, Interesting)
Some patches only show 5 shuttles, and dont count Enterprise, but the others do ?
Re:How Many shuttles? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How Many shuttles? (Score:4, Insightful)
I knew that Enterprise never made it to space, I was just surprised that internally at NASA they werent counting it. ( The same as some of them start the project in 1976, instead of 1981)
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Enterprise (Score:2)
I found it nice that the first SpaceShipTwo is named the VSS Enterprise.
Enterprise - OV-101 (Score:2)
At this point it's necessary to mention that the Enterprise is on display at the Smithsonian Air & Space Annex at Dulles International Airport. The annex is a few miles down the road from the main terminal. In addition to Enterprise, there's also the Enola Gay, an SR71, a JSF, (F-35?) and a whole pile more. My wife said she liked it better than the Air & Space downtown.
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BTW, one can't help but wonder why do they call it an "orbiter"...
Is anybody counting the Shuttle Pathfinder (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_(Space_Shuttle_simulator) [wikipedia.org]
it was used to check clearances in places where the shuttle would be in the future.
Agree with you, CT (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really quite sad to see another step backward in human spaceflight. I grew up in the '80s when the shuttle was exciting but thought we'd have progressed beyond it by now. As a child a space station meant a large circular wheel with a central hub that thousands of people were living on and which was stepping off point for missions further out. Much as I appreciate the science going on with what we have, it sure would be nice if mankind was a little bolder.
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it sure would be nice if mankind was a little bolder
It's a conspiracy. We've been held back by English majors complaining about split infinitives. If wasn't for their constant whining we'd be boldly going across the galaxy by now! But no, you split one little infinitive and they'll bring down an entire space program just to keep the government from repeating and thus sanctioning it.
Whoops, forgot my meds this morning.
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Manned exploration (Score:2)
OK, but I don't think six billion people would fit in the Fertile Crescent.
Oh, wait...we had explorers that had the courage to take to the stormy seas in fragile craft without accurate navigation. Unmanned space missions are good for gathering information but there might come a time when we need to get out there to make use of what we learn whether it be for science or for commercial use.
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I disagree. I think unmanned spaceflight is the REAL future, and will provide us with far more useful information than putting meat sacks in a tin can and blasting it into a vacuum.
Ok, here's a challenge for you. How much would it cost to duplicate the scientific output of the Apollo program with unmanned missions? Your budget is a heady $130 billion dollars (the inflation-adjusted cost of Apollo program, possibly including Skylab). Key things you need to be able to do:
1) return 382 kg of samples from the Moon in at least six missions. You can conduct far more missions, if you desire.
2) At least three of those sample return missions must use rovers capable of traveling up to 40
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Err, no. Been watching Moonraker too many times lately?
Most of the original shuttle designs involved two-stage launchers where the first stage flew back to the launch site with wings. They did carry the second stage piggyback, for the most part, but they still flew like rockets the whole way up (vertical launch off a pad, rocket powered, etc). There have been a couple of "back-of-747" style proposals, but none were actually built.
Very good book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Space-Shuttle-National [amazon.com]
Don't tell slashdot (Score:3, Interesting)
it sure would be nice if mankind was a little bolder.
Don't tell slashdot - slashdot can't do anything about that problem. Tell your US representative. Tell your US Senator. Send a letter to the VP and POTUS. Contact every federal-level elected politician that represents you. The budget - and hence the missions - for NASA are dictated by congress. The NASA budget keeps getting cut because the politicians believe the American people are OK with that happening. If you are not OK with it then you owe it to yourself, your representation, and the rest of th
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Well, the USA are already working on it, increasing the average weight of mankind all the time - and given that many Americans are already heavy and a sizable number of them are black I think they're making good progress.
Plus, and I know this is a fairly oblique statement, for everyone tracking the progress of spaceflight it's justified to say that the leading position of the States is actuall
Not backward; forward (Score:2)
When the Space Race was basically ending, it was clear there won't be so many resources anymore for space travel. And what NASA did for the next 3 decades? Flew a spacecraft wasting almost 100 tonnes of cargo in each launch. A spacecraft that was not only a result of compromise, but properties of which weren't really utilized. Those 100 tonnes wasted in each launch meant no circular space station. No mission further on.
Heck, even Russians got sucked in and wanted to have a spacecraft with comparable capabil
Time to move on (Score:2)
Frankly, I'm now glad to see the shuttle retiring and I'm greatly looking forward to the impending launch of the first SpaceX Falcon 9 this spring ( http://www.spacex.com/updates.php [spacex.com] ) . Space will not be conquered with government programs, but by private enterprise and ind
Re:Time to move on - agree (Score:3, Interesting)
Now we have a new station that took way longer to build than we expected, which they want to deorbit soon. Frustrating!
IMO, the US should
#5 is the best... (Score:3)
Best design too (Score:2)
I liked the first one a lot, but #5 was my favorite of all of them anyway - for a patch you have to keep the design more on the simple side, with less photorealism and cleaner elements.
Also, I liked seeing the major things the shuttle worked on during the years of service - Hubble and space station.
Overall it was a great patch design.
Semi-related question (Score:2)
How practical is it to travel to Florida to see a shuttle launch in person? It seems like most of the launches these days are delayed weeks or longer from their originally-scheduled dates. I'd like to see the last one, but obviously if it means renting a room there for a month it's not really something I could do.
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How practical is it to travel to Florida to see a shuttle launch in person? It seems like most of the launches these days are delayed weeks or longer from their originally-scheduled dates. I'd like to see the last one, but obviously if it means renting a room there for a month it's not really something I could do.
Sounds like you've already worked that out. If you were going to do it, you should clear out about a week and plan something else to do in Florida, then work around the shuttle launch. If you're planning on taking a couple days off to fly down, see the launch, and fly back, then there is a pretty good chance that you won't see it. It's kind of hard to tell until the day of the launch what the chances that the window will be clear are. Florida also tends to have hurricanes and thunderstorms during this t
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Most of the time, I try to do without my car, but this is one of those cases where using one is probably the most economical solution. As another poster ment
That depends... (Score:3, Interesting)
see a shuttle launch in person?
I was at Kennedy over the summer, and I was fortunate enough to be able to see likely the last time we will ever have two shuttles on platform simultaneously. However my timing down there was incompatible with seeing a launch, and I learned something from our NASA tour guide about the launches that I did not know before.
Very, very, few people are allowed to get even somewhat close to the launch. Granted, you can get close enough to feel some of the shockwave, you won't be able to get
I too will be sad to see the shuttle go (Score:2)
My favs (Score:2)
#8 appeals to the art deco aficionado in me, and #12 is just beautiful. As others have pointed out, however, it is likely that neither of them will embroider particularly well.
Shuttle Wasted 30 years (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Shuttle Wasted 30 years (Score:4, Insightful)
Or was it Apollo-Saturn with its promise of quick and dirty into space before the Soviets what destroyed the progression of the X-15/X-20 spaceplane program and stagnated space exploration for years.
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Many aligators will be slain, but the swamp will remain.
Coincidentally fitting for the nostalgia I would say, don't you all think? Space will remain. If you want to get there, go buy a book about orbital theory and help us get there =)
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Or was it Apollo-Saturn with its promise of quick and dirty into space before the Soviets what destroyed the progression of the X-15/X-20 spaceplane program and stagnated space exploration for years.
This.
My father was a NASA engineer for Apollo. He and his colleagues were almost unanimous in their opinion that what they were doing was a neat trick, but a distraction from their real business of building spaceplanes. He also worked for what was then Martin Marietta on the early stages of the Shuttle design,
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So if the engineers had their way, we'd be flying around in something like this?
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/images/gallery32.jpg [ucl.ac.uk]
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Or was it Apollo-Saturn with its promise of quick and dirty into space before the Soviets what destroyed the progression of the X-15/X-20 spaceplane program and stagnated space exploration for years.
Indeed. If you haven't read it already, aerospace engineer Rand Simberg has a really great piece titled "A Space Program For the Rest of Us" [thenewatlantis.com] which goes into detail on how the Apollo program, structured to beat the Russians to the Moon at any cost, had the unfortunate side effect of creating a space program which
I'm lucky (Score:2)
"For someone my age, the shuttle really *IS* space travel. I'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land."
Reading that, I feel lucky to have grown up watching the space program when we were testing the limits of our abilities and every flight brought us closer to landing on the moon. There was a sense of adventure that's been missing since then.
Eheh (Score:2)
Poor wording (Score:2)
I'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land.
As opposed to something.... more spectacular? They've already done that a couple of times.
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Whoosh.
Bah. "Space Travel" Was Heading To Other WORLDS. (Score:2, Insightful)
.
And for someone as old as me, "space travel" was the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs, when we put men on the moon in less than a decade. That was when NASA wasn't afraid to take risks -- yes, to put it bluntly, when we accepted that there would be some casualties.
I'm not making light of the shuttle program, but "Space travel" ...
Safe Landing (Score:2, Insightful)
Challenger breaking up on re-entry hit me very hard. I will be happy to see it land, safely.
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That would be Columbia. We lost Challenger just 73 seconds after she lifted off.
Crap (Score:2)
I already missed all of the Saturn V launches, now I'm probably going to miss seeing the last shuttle launch as well? I need more vacation time :P
My entry (Score:2)
'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land. (Score:2)
But it would suck even worse if it _didn't_ land. We've already had two shuttles that didn't. Here's praying that the remaining flights _do_ land as intended.
I'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land. (Score:2)
> I'm going to be really sad to see STS-133 land.
Me too, but nowhere near as sorry as I would if it didn't.
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No, they don't trust Stephen Colbert. Why do you ask?
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I just don't see NASA allowing Goatse to be on the mission patch.
Re:After the naming contest what would you do? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nobody wants to see a space truck until they need a delivery.
Sure, but is it wise to have a "space truck" be your country's only way to get people into orbit?
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No; at least, not in its current form. The Challenger accident was one of the primary motivations to the new NASA doctrine of separating crew and cargo. (Which lead to the 1.5 launch architecture embodied by ARES.) Cargo is expendable; crew isn't. In order to abort during the launch, it is much easier to pull a relatively lightweight crew module away from the rocket, than to move a 100 metric ton behemoth
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Actually, no payload is expendable, whether it be school teachers or satellites. When your truck can randomly explode with the brightness of the sun, any loss is a bad loss.You think that people wont be up in arms if an ARES V fails and loses 75 tons of supplies, satellites, science equipment or ANYTHING else. especially compared to the shuttles payload of about 25 tons. it would be like losing the dollar value of three shuttle payloads.
and about your "easier to retrieve" com
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Nobody wants to see a space truck until they need a delivery.
Yup. We're going to regret retiring the Shuttle in the coming years. It may be expensive and even dangerous at times, but rockets are no substitute for it.
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We're going to regret retiring the Shuttle in the coming years.
Why? Looking at the past 30 years, I don't see anything in the Shuttle that I would regret (well, it does look pretty). Superexpensive space station that is at least 15 years behind? Check. Superexpensive space telescope? Check. A bunch of man-years of doing little in space? Check. Here's what I regret. All the stuff that we could be doing for the past 30 years, if we hadn't spent all that money on white elephants. More space probes, lunar missions, more space telescopes, etc.
Re:After the naming contest what would you do? (Score:4, Funny)
Nobody wants to see a space truck until they need a delivery.
You know how it is.
You get a space truck, and suddenly everyone wants your help moving their space sofas to their new space apartment.
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They've actually talked about deorbiting the IIS in 2016 (there's a previous article on
that's all vaporware
They said the same thing in 1976 about the Space Shuttle.
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The F22 is in service. The F35 may still be vapor. Orion... Yea I am not thrilled but dude? What about the Mars Rovers? What about the missions to the outer planets, what about the mission to Pluto?
Yes it is sad that we have seen to lost our vision for grand mega projects for now. But the actual science and exploration that is being done is wonderful. Since you seem to be from another country why don't you ask your own nation to step up to the plate? All of the EU working together have not built a single m
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You're right, the US & USSR did the lion's share of the heavy lifting into space.
*ducks*
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Okay your from Brazilian and your nation can not manage to do what the US and Russia did in the 1960s? Please you could at least match Mercury and Gemini. Once you get there keep going. Really it has all been done and documented and modern tech available to you is light years ahead of what the US had in 1961.
The IDL bug has been fixed and the F22 is pretty dang exciting.
As to trusting Americans well thanks and I am sorry we are letting you down. Yep we have got to make changes and get our confidence back I
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First they retire the SR-71 without ANY proper replacement...
And yet, somehow we seem to be getting along just fine without it. Perhaps we don't really need an SR-71.
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we do have proper replacements, spy satellites can drop down to 70 miles orbit. they make the SR-71 look like your great grandma on a walker
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First they retire the SR-71 without ANY proper replacement...
There's no need for a super high speed surveillance plane any more. The job the Blackbird did (and did well, I might add) can now be done just as well by spy satellites that are cheaper and safer. The SR-71 was simply made obsolete by advancing technology, so it disappeared just like the P-51 Mustang.
Virg
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SR71 replacement, It's called SPY satellites, we can see things from space that the antique SR71 could not do for us in it's heyday.
Shuttle Replacement, already designed. a "spaceplane was never practical. It's why the Russians abandoned their shuttle and stuck with what works. What we need is a big heavy reliable lifting platform, not a SCiFi knock off designed to look pretty. We need to get big stuff into space if we will ever make it to mars. the Mars trip vehicle will have to be assembled in orbit.
IIS?
Re:I'm sick of this! (Score:4, Interesting)
And on that note, the U-2 is still in active use (they call it the TR-1 now). So one of the ironies there is that the U-2 outlasted its replacement.. by a lot. If anything, it shows that there's still use for long range human recon planes (compared to spy sats). Though I guess UAVs are gonna completely take over that role soon enough.
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But to claim that they could completely replace the Blackbird is a bit much. Spy sats all follow known orbits. It is possible to compute those orbits and avoid/hide from spy sats. Both sides of the cold war did that a lot, which is part of the reason why the U2 and Blackbird were so useful.
Indeed, thanks for saying that so I didn't have to. Being able to put a camera over something whenever you want is a big advantage for spy planes.
But I'm sure there have been cases since its retirement where government o
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Well some fireworks would brighten up an otherwise sad occasion...
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That invokes memories of Dr. Strangelove, not a sight I want to see for the last shuttle mission.
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Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress.