Anti-Smoking Vaccine Is Nearing the Market 237
eldavojohn writes "Almost 6 years ago we discussed a vaccine to help people quit smoking as it entered human clinical trials. Now it looks like the finishing touches have been put on a deal that will go into effect once phase III testing of the drug now called NicVAX is completed. NicVAX was developed by Nabi Biopharmaceuticals, who have agreed to license it to GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals; it is expected to complete phase III testing successfully. Others have fallen short of this goal, in pursuit of a smoking-cessation market expected to hit $4.6 billion worldwide by 2016. Nabi has also sold an experimental vaccine for staph infections; and in 2008 we discussed news of a cocaine vaccine."
Zombieland (Score:2, Interesting)
Equilibrium (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Equilibrium (Score:4, Insightful)
What the hell are you talking about? Does it ever bother you, being ignorant? Don't you ever wonder what it's like to not be ignorant?
Re:Equilibrium (Score:4, Insightful)
I’m not saying you’re wrong. :)
I just wonder how you think you that insulting someone and offering nothing else than ad-hominem style non-arguments will convince us or especially him so say that you’re right? ^^
Especially since I know that some good arguments made you take that point of view in the first place. So you can definitely do much better.
Protip: To change someone’s opinion, there is no way around first agreeing with him. And being friendly enough that he listens to you. Even if he is wrong and an ass. Or your 13 year old son. No not even. Especially in those cases! :) :)
Disclaimer: Yep, I need to get better at this too.
Funny note: You used “projection”. Because your ignorance was the reason you called him ignorant. (Okay, I know, now I definitely blew it. So I’ll go now.
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nicVAX? (Score:2)
Well, 'tis said that nothing sucks like a VAX.
?.?.? eh (Score:3, Funny)
Step 4, Anti-Smoking Vaccine ...
Step 5, Profit!
Step 8, Anti(Anti-Smoking) Vaccine
Step 9, Profit!
Anti-smoking-vacine vacine. (Score:2)
Easyway (Score:2)
"Vaccine" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Vaccine" (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA...
NicVAX works by stimulating the immune system to produce antibodies that bind to nicotine in the bloodstream, making the nicotine molecule too large to cross the blood-brain barrier and enter the brain.
So it effects the immune system to recognize some particular foreign matter and deal with it? That sounds like a vaccine to me.
Re:"Vaccine" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Nonsense. Vaccines can be prophylactic, or therapeutic. You just mistakenly think the word has a narrower meaning than it actually does.
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Um, why don't you cite the particular dictionary that you claim proves your point? "Not according to dictionary," indeed ...
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To my complete lack of surprise, once I extracted the URL from the mangled mess you posted, I found that there was absolutely nothing at all in the definition given which excludes the type of vaccine discussed in TFA. Maybe you should take the time to read the pages you (try to) link to?
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You're missing the point. I did read the definition (and, after almost a decade in patient care and another decade in biomedical research, I'm pretty well familiar with what is and isn't a vaccine, anyway.) The definition in no way excludes the vaccine being discussed in TFA. Your crotchety-old-man schtick is moderately amusing, but in this case you've followed it to the point of arguing an indefensible position.
RTFA (Score:2)
"Hatsukami said NicVax would probably be most helpful for smokers who already quit smoking and are trying to avoid a relapse."
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Seriously. What is an "anti-smoking vaccine"? Do you mean a "smoking vaccine"?
We have H1N1 vaccines, not Anti-H1N1 vaccines...
Sings: They tried to send me to Rehab, (Score:2)
but I said no, no, give me the goddamn shot.
Finally, something to deal with anti-smoking (Score:4, Funny)
Like H1N1 vaccines, this anti-smoking vaccine will help eradicate anti-smoking once and for all, along with all the ill effects it's caused. People will be able to stop worrying about anti-smoking when around other people.
(Brought to you by the people who brought you cooler temperatures, larger sizes, wider width shoes, and cheaper price tags.)
So, this new vaccine... (Score:5, Funny)
Side-effects (Score:5, Funny)
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Actually they already have cure for addiction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine [wikipedia.org] - but thanks to the war on drugs you can't get it legally.
The more you know...
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Vaccine? (Score:2)
So these "vaccines" deliver a weakened version of nicotine and cocaine to our adaptive immune systems to condition them to attack the chemicals later?
Oh, wait, the chemicals are too small for our immune system to detect and disassemble.
Don't call them vaccines. It sounds stupid.
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It is a vaccine as it stimulates production of appropriate antibodies to bind to nicotine, which then makes it impossible for it to cross the blood-brain barrier.
Vaccine (Score:3, Funny)
My vaccine for both tobacco addiction and alcoholism was marijuana. True story.
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So nicotine or SMOKING (Score:2)
I think that by the name of the drug this would only affect nicotine addiction. Would be real shitty if it stopped you from smoking healthy things like weed.
I could briefly see the american anti-drug tsars eyes light up with the thoughts of forced inoculations!
Ibogaine (Score:5, Interesting)
The only reason why this is necessary is because a compound that already exists is illegal and not profitable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine [wikipedia.org]
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Wow. I didn't realize that Ibogaine could be effective for Nicotine, Alcohol, and Methamphetamine as well as opiates.
I know I'm taking a slightly off topic post and going more off topic, but does anyone have any personal experiences with Ibogaine? I know a few people who have struggled with opiate addiction. It is a struggle practically every day of their lives even after years clean. I have to remain slightly skeptical that one Ibogaine experience has such lasting effects.
This is why.... (Score:2)
Side effects include:
Presscott Pharmaceuticals, bringing you tomorrow's medicines today, whether you like it or not.
I enjoy the e-cigarette instead! (Score:2, Interesting)
Thus it became trivial to bum a smoke, whenever. It
Have they perfected the Fun Vaccine yet???? (Score:2)
Seems like they are working on perfecting the Fun Vaccine and pretty soon it will be mandatory because having fun probably kills more people than H1N1 so we need to vaccinate everyone so they can no longer have any fun and live long hellish miserable lives....
Slam, Dunk and Flush (Score:2)
"...Is Nearing the Market" is a damn far cry from "the first of two Phase III studies, which got under way earlier this month".
A phase III often lasts years, and considering the potential dangers of messing with chemicals that mimic neurotransmitters, this will be one. Even if the second runs concurrent or nearly so, I expect FDA blessings no sooner than 2016. If they're run serially, 2020+. "Nearing market" like fusion reactors are nearing break even. Slam.
"NicVAX works by stimulating the immune system to
I was already vaccinated (Score:3, Funny)
I was already vaccinated when I was a kid. My father said, "so help me God, if you ever smoke I will kick your a$$." He meant it too.
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Or (Score:4, Interesting)
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What about social smokers? You know, those who have a cigarette or two when having a few drinks with friends but who don't smoke otherwise?
/Mikael
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I am lucky to have 1 or 2 a week.
I use to smoke a pack a day.
Now I don't have the cravings and could be considered a "Social smoker"
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Ditto.
Even less because it's so much trouble to fuck-off work and have a fag, these days. No smoking in pubs. That's like no sex in hotels. Who'd've thought?
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I would be interested in finding out if people with a dependence on both alcohol and tobacco would really be helped by this "vaccine" -- maybe taking the joy out of tobacco could lead to people consuming even more alcohol.
Re:Or (Score:5, Funny)
Kind of reminds me of a friend of mine's first foray into quitting smoking. He declared that he was only going to smoke when he was drinking. He did very well with that...the only problem was he ended up getting drunk twice a day.
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That's pretty much typical with any addiction - the addiction is not given up but rather transferred to something else. Food, alcohol, computer games, reading, work, web surfing, porn, gambling, other drugs, sniffing glue - whatever floats your boat, I'm sure you'll be doing a lot more of
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Please. I know plenty of people who only smoke after a night of drinking. Do the cigarettes own them?
That would depend how often they have a night of drinking and if it is regularly they could end up being addicted to smoking. At any rate, a night of drinking and smoking wouldn't be good for anyone's health.
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Life is not good for your health, and if your never going to have any fun you might as well end it now.
Using anything is not the behavior of an addict, not being able to stop is.
Believe it or not lots of folks use all kinds of drugs recreationally and never do develop a habit. Some people can, some can't. The difference between those that can and those that can't is some blend of genetics and having a decent life so they are not just seeking escape.
I say this as a man addicted to one drug that comes in pill
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So is levothyroxine sodium a mood enhancer? hypothyroidism seems to cause general depression of the body's functions. Do you get a minor high off its stimulant properties, or are you just making a case that addiction == genuine physical dependence?
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I do indeed have my mood altered by this drug. I can take it after having been up for many hours and it almost totally removes the need for sleep. It makes me feel very in control clear headed and able to focus. Much like low doses of amphetamines, what we call Adderall when we give it to kids.
I am not saying addiction requires physical dependence, I am saying addiction requires you to feel compelled to do something to not just want too. I can want to have a cigarette after a night of being at the bar, that
Re:Or (Score:4, Insightful)
What if you don't need to but like too?
I don't need to have diet pepsi, but I like it.
Having a couple smokes after a long night is no big deal. Unless you live in a bubble you are getting far worse from daily exposure to car exhaust.
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My favorite story is a friend of mine in Vermont who loudly proclaimed she was quitting smoking. And she did.
Well, not really. She'd sneak a few every day.
Then one day she was taking out the trash and sneaking a cigarette. It was about -20 degrees Fahrenheit outside. She's standing there smoking her cigarette and freezing her ass off. And she thinks, "Why am I doing this? I'm not fooling myself--I know I haven't quit smoking. I'm not fooling my son--he knows it doesn't take 20 minutes to throw out th
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My mom quit smoking ahead of a hysterectomy probably around 20 years ago. To this day, stress makes her want to smoke. By this time, I'm certain that it's a psychological need that drives the desire, not a physical one, but it's a powerful reminder of the hold cigarettes can have.
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No. That's not the case. I smoke one cigarette maybe 3 times a week. I can (and have) gone weeks at a time without smoking, at this pace. I am NOT addicted, and I feel like shit if I smoke more than 2-3 times a day - so I won't become addicted. I'd become physically ill if I tried to smoke enough so that I could get addicted.
You're still quitting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's because you need willpower before, you know, to say no.
If you smoke already, you've lacked either the willpower or brains when you've started.
Never start to smoke is still the best method. Thankfully throughout Europe there is a strong trend to ban smoking from public places so it's getting harder to passive smoke here -- no need to ruin your health because some fucker thought he'll get more chicks if he smokes like that cowboy he had seen on TV.
Re:Or (Score:5, Interesting)
I started smoking when I was 16, and have been trying to quit ever since.. Once going over a year, only to return, though smoking less. At 24 I tried the patch and gum to no great effect. At 30 I vowed never to buy another pack, and I haven't in 3 years, however I still bum them from friends..
I just can't seem to ever quit entirely, and the idea of a vaccine that would finally let me kick the habit is one I happily welcome.
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Re:Or (Score:4, Insightful)
I coach people through weight loss and smoking cessation. At the beginning I make them sign a contract that says, in part, that they understand this is a life change that will cost them their current friends and social contacts.
Few relationships can survive a life change like that. That's why it's so difficult to quit.
When you smoke or overeat, you chose friends that do the same. And you do activities that revolve around overeating or smoking.
When you quit or lose weight, you find new friends and new activities and you find that your old friends no longer are your friends. Sometimes it's just a gradual thing, but sometimes those "friends" dump loads and loads of guilt on the person trying to change their life, and do everything possible to sabotage the effort.
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will-power
Does this part of the remedy come in pill form?
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
What's more, there are no side effects
Clearly you've never been addicted to something. Like, ADDICTED addicted, in the sense that your body physically feels different when you try to ween it off.
Don't get me wrong, I think you are right, that quitting is more about a person being disciplined and wanting to quit more than anything else, but to say that you won't feel anything when trying to quit is inaccurate.
Yes, you will get the shivers, and you will get the sweats, and you might even get the shakes. But you gotta fight through that shit.
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Quitting smoking was the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. All 5 times. Quit cold turkey, nicorette, patch, nicorette again, and then hypnosis.
It finally stuck. 8 years quit now. But it was effing tough each time. Including the hypnosis.
If the world hadn't turned so anti smoking in the 8 years since I quit, I wouldn't be surprised if I had relapsed. The fact that I can go out to eat or to a bar or even to work and not have smokers in my face all the time helps.
That and having a kid.
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And the patch, and probably this Vaccine, essentially keep a bit of nicotine in your system, so that you don't feel those effects to lack of drug.
The drug is still in you, you just don't have all the harmful effects that come with smoking it.
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The problem with smoking isn't just the physical dependency, it's the psychological dependency. I've talked to plenty of people who have used the patch and the gum, and the problem is as much, if not more, the associations with cigarettes. That was the toughest for me, drinking coffee and coding. Both activities were ones that I just sort of subconsciously required a cigarette for, and I'd chain smoke when I was programming. Even after the physical symptoms receded, there were times when I'd sit down wi
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
*gives Kratisto nightly heroin injections for a few weeks just to see what happens*
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It's funny you should mention heroin.
I worked in a rehab one time, and I talked to various folks who were getting off of things: alcohol, coke, crack, etc... all of the ones who smoked cigarettes said that nicotine was the hardest drug to kick. Meaning, many of them beat all the other drugs but were struggling to kick cigarettes.
I know a couple ex-heroin junkies, an ex-meth-head, and some mostly ex-potheads who still smoke. The heroin junkies in particular said that the withdrawal symptoms of heroin were excruciating, but once they were off, they could stay off. The problem is how difficult it is to stay off smoking because cigarettes are so widely available and there are people smoking everywhere. There is just enough difficulty in getting illegal drugs to make it fairly easy to stay away from them, but nicotene is too easy to
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I don't know, I think your "just slightly" is more like a "barely". I do not use illegal drugs and have not for a good number of years. I know that tonight I could certainly get Marijuana, Cocaine, Crack, MDMA, Pharmacy grade methamphetamine (Adderall), any number of different types of pharmaceutical opiates (Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycontin..), and possibly Ketamine. Most of these I could obtain at one of several small suburban bars....hardly a seedy area. Maybe I just know a lot of people, maybe I just ha
Re:Or (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed.
I was a heavy smoker; three packs a day, and I rolled my own (so no filter to douse any of the carcinogenic goodness!) I never thought I'd quit, and really didn't want to. Then, almost nine years ago to the day, I came down with a horribly bad lung infection coupled with probably the single worst ear infection ever. I remember walking up the stairs to the second floor of my apartment would literally take about ten minutes to recover from. I realized at that moment that, while I'd probably get over this one (I was about 28 years old at the time), and I'd get over the next one, and so on, but eventually, sometime in the next fifteen to twenty years my lungs were going to be so fucked up that I'd be stuck with emphysema, probably congestive heart failure and ultimately dying by drowning in my own fluids, and that was if I was lucky, because I could also get lung cancer, and the process would be all the worse.
I threw out my tobacco, left my wallet at home when I went to work so that even if I caved in, I'd have to go out like a bumb on to the street to beg for a smoke. I ate carrots like I was a rabbit with an OCD, just so I had something to do with my mouth. The first week I was still so sick that I couldn't tell withdrawal from everything else that was wrong with me. The second week, it was tough, I was irritable and my mouth seemed to be constantly salivating. The third week it was a little better, and after a month the nic fits were coming only a couple of times a day. I called myself done after a year, and have never picked up a cigarette since.
It was tough at times, but I'm proud of myself that I didn't run to the doctor, stick a patch on, chew nicotine gum or do anything to try to wean myself. I quit cold turkey and never looked back.
Re:Or (Score:5, Interesting)
I was 1/2 to 1 pack a day for 13 years - then the day before my 26'th birth day i realized that 1 more day and i would have smoked for 1/2 my life and at that point i was a smoker never a non smoker.
looked at the one in my hand - dropped it through the pack i had away and that was it.
Sure i had cravings - i chewed tooth picks for weeks - some times i miss the flavor but to be honest i can't even stand the smell of it any more if i'm around smokers.
Congrats for quiting - and while i'm glad i quit - i'd never be a zealot to go and tell smokers they need to quit, it's a personal thing - but quitting is defiantly a mind over matter thing
Re:Or (Score:5, Insightful)
Rough going, huh? For me, it's quiet the opposite.
I've been smoking for over 20 years, and on occasion I get the urge to quit. The reason has to do with the habit itself. Any habit taken to the extreme or adopted for far too long tends to get less enjoyable as time passes.
When, I do quit, it's typically for a few weeks or maybe a few months at a time. No real withdrawl, except for the day or two, of course. By the end of that period, I come to the same conclusions. Namely, that the "benefits" of smoking (enhanced concentration, relaxation, creativity, etc.) are gone and I want them back. Not need them, but want them. Life, I think, is a bit too ordinary without a vice.
Say what you will about the dangers of smoking, it has its rewards. Besides, what else to do when having a drink, after sex, or when you need to ponder a big idea? And no, nicotine in drug form (as a safer alternative) isn't the answer any more than taking caffeine pills is a substitute for enjoy a coffee. With a cigarette of course. ;-)
As a side note, all cigarettes sold in the US and EU are now required to "fire-safe". That's an oxymoronic term for "they're doused with a chemical to retard burning and prevent fires". The result is a cigarette that doesn't burn properly and tastes like shit. If I do ever quit, it'll be because I've taken up cigars and Scotch.
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I too snacked a lot. Sunflower seeds were a huge help.
Those first two weeks were the worst. It seemed like the physical cravings started to died around that time. Then for the next couple of months it was just the mental demons I had to deal with: "I've pretty much quit, I
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I hear will-power and the notion of a life plagued by health problems followed by an early death completed clinical trials sixty years ago. What's more, there are no side effects, and when taken properly, there is a 100% chance of success.
Oh, yes, willpower. Just like everyone getting to be an astronaut if they just want it bad enough. Nevermind the host of withdrawal symptoms, the psychological aspects of which are more severe than most people can imagine. Case in point: a veteran friend of mine quit smoking. He had his PTSD and depression under perfect control for years until his family pressured him into quitting cold-turkey because "all he needed is willpower." Things went downhill fast, but he was hassled by everyone for wanting to
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If you're story is true, then this guy already had one foot through the Loony Tooney Mad House before he quit smoking. He should have been seeing a shrink and being monitored. Suffice it to say, most people ain't going to blow their brains out because they quit smoking, and those that do were nuts to begin with. This is like blaming Judas Priest for some dumb-ass kids' suicide pact.
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Perhaps it'd be better to say that there are some cases where other issues can be emphasized by the additional stress or whatever caused by quitting.
But a single anecdote where someone was pressed and belittled into doing it with "willpower" as a means of disproving an entire method seems silly.
And I think the belittling aspect is huge. It's one thing to try to do it "cold turkey." It's another to tell someone that they aren't a real man, they're stupid, their weak, their pathetic, etc., if they can't do
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Two points.
1. It's an anecdote. If you can provide some actual statistical data, then I might be the slightest bit compelled to take it seriously.
2. I don't particularly believe you. Even if the story is based on truth, I have deep suspicion that certain relevant facts have been heavily minimized to increase the emotionally potency of the underlying claim "Quitting smoking kills!"
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1) It only takes a single negative event to disprove an assertion of "100%."
2) I didn't make the underlying claim that "quitting smoking kills." I made the underlying claim that "willpower alone is the panacea for all" is bullshit.
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I made the underlying claim that "willpower alone is the panacea for all" is bullshit.
Willpower IS all it takes to quit smoking. The problem is a lot of people are pussies who don't have enough willpower to muster up, so they go on smoking for 40 years "trying to quit" the whole time. I really don't feel sorry for them or for how shitty their lives inevitably become. As for the veteran in question, it sounds like the quitting smoking thing is the "straw that broke the camel's back" so to speak. Most people
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Thanks, that's all I needed.
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You gave an example of someone with serious mental health issues. Well yes, duh, maybe quitting smoking for that individual isn't going to be that easy. But I suspect, if the story is true in substance at all, that there were probably a large number of things this guy was having trouble with.
It's like saying "A guy who had blinders on was killed by the thirteenth building he struck, therefore driving can be hazardous!"
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What I'm hearing from you is "Oh, he was nuts, so no big deal." You seem to be trying to rebut my assertion that quitting smoking strongly affects people by downplaying my anecdote. I shall then assume that you contending that quitting smoking has negligible psychological impact. Are you just going to do some cryptic hand waving and blame it on sheer coincidence?
What you're hearing and what's being said aren't the same thing at all. Your friend was a deeply troubled, mentally fragile individual. His story isn't to be trivialized.
That being said, bringing your story into this discussion is akin to bringing up a quadriplegic as evidence against the idea that exercise is strongly beneficial in fighting depression. Sure, there are fringe cases where it isn't very useful, just as there are fringe cases where willpower isn't beneficial in quitting smoking. Therapy an
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I hear will-power and the notion of a life plagued by health problems followed by an early death completed clinical trials sixty years ago. What's more, there are no side effects, and when taken properly, there is a 100% chance of success.
Sure, but there are people who don't have willpower, and while there's something to be said for consequences, there's also something to be said along the lines of "smokers who don't quit will cause everyone else's health-care costs to indirectly go up."
I'm not trying to open a can of worms: that's true no matter what health insurance system you have, reform or not. The only way we don't all end up paying somewhat for their health-care is if we were to decide they're barred from any health-care at all. (I'
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It's like saying "abstinence is 100% effective as a means of contraception". This is true; but it is only true because the definition excludes people who attempt, but fail, to use the method. In this case, willpower is 100% effective because anybody who fails was, by definition, not using it correctly.
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As my old boss said, "Cigarettes will take years off of your life. However, it's the years at the end of your life--the ones where you're wearing an adult diaper and spending most of your days drooling."
The health problems you mention come later in life. It's not like you're going to smoke a cigarette and suddenly be incapacitated. Heck, I smoke and I used to ride my bike a minimum of 100 miles a week and had no problems. So the ethereal, "You'll have health problems later in life" isn't much of a dissu
Re:Unfortunately... (Score:5, Interesting)
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You're probably correct. It isn't hard to imagine a world where $drug_of_choice will no longer be effective for self-medication, and only prescribed pharmaceuticals will still work, because only those will be left outside of what the vaccine targets.
Although the vaccine does not reduce the cravings or withdrawal symptoms of quitting, it will reduce the rewarding effects of smoking. It is designed to curb the "high" smokers feel when they light up.
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People needing release will always find something.
In some contries around the world alcohol is not allowed.
If you think that means they have no recreational drugs (legal ones as like alcohol) then you are very naive.
The only solution to addiction is to make people happy and contented. No one seems to be interested in this. there is no money in it.\
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