Maori Legend of Man-Eating Birds is True 338
jerryatrix writes "Legends of the New Zealand Maori tell of giant man-eating birds. New scientific evidence proves that these birds did exist and were around the same time as humans in New Zealand. From the article, 'Scientists now think the stories handed down by word of mouth and depicted in rock drawings refer to Haast's eagle, a raptor that became extinct just 500 years ago.'"
so... (Score:5, Funny)
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we're not always at the top
Sometimes it's nice not to be on top.
You know, change it up a little.
Keeps things fresh.
Puts a little spice in things.
Who am I kidding... *sigh*
Re:so... (Score:5, Informative)
So it wasn't the dingo, after all.
No dingos in NZ.
Re:so... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course not! Not any more -- did you see the size of those Dingo eating birds?
Re:so... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually there is no evidence that there was ever any land animals whatsoever in NZ except for lizards, insects and spiders. Unless you count flightless birds.
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Actually there is no evidence that there was ever any land animals whatsoever in NZ except for lizards, insects and spiders. Unless you count flightless birds.
So, aside from the sheep-eating lizards, poisonous insects, deadly spiders, and territorial (and vicious) birds... you'd be perfectly safe.
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Actually there is no evidence that there was ever any land animals whatsoever in NZ except for lizards, insects and spiders. Unless you count flightless birds.
So, aside from the sheep-eating lizards, poisonous insects, deadly spiders, and territorial (and vicious) birds... you'd be perfectly safe.
Last I checked we only had man eating birds, and the odd man eating Maori.
Yup.. (Score:5, Funny)
Yup,...it'd be a pretty Odd man that eats a Maori. Pretty tough buggers those. :-) A bit of a step up from Pit Bull I tell you!
Re:Yup.. (Score:5, Funny)
Yup,...it'd be a pretty Odd man that eats a Maori. Pretty tough buggers those.
Tough? You're probably cooking them too fast. Have you tried preparing one sous-vide ?
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Tough? You're probably cooking them too fast. Have you tried preparing one sous-vide ?
Close. Slow cooked in a wet sand pit filled with hot rocks and covered with palm leaves is the regional cooking method. Kind of like a clam bake, without the clams.
no evidence of land animals? (Score:4, Funny)
So, aside from the sheep-eating lizards . . .
. . . well I'm hoping the sheep eating lizards found more than just evidence of 'land animals' else they would soon become 'fuck, where's the sheep?' lizards. Admittedly they sound dangerous too . . .
Re:no evidence of land animals? (Score:5, Funny)
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Sorry, wrong URL. You're looking for http://www.adultsheepfinder.co.nz/ [adultsheepfinder.co.nz]
Re:so... (Score:4, Informative)
Deadly spiders? New Zealand has no snakes and only one species of poisonous spider (the Katipo [wikipedia.org]) that's rare, endangered, and found only on coastlands (eg. not inland). The next worse thing (probably a whitetail spider [wikipedia.org]) merely makes you nauseous, and is not deadly.
Because of the tectonic plate movement New Zealand drifted off before animals and before evolution favoured overtly vicious creatures, let alone poisonous creatures.
New Zealand was a land full of birds before humans arrived in about 1000 AD, bringing rats and other animals.
Re:so... (Score:5, Funny)
Deadly spiders? New Zealand has no snakes and only one species of poisonous spider
That's because the Maori's ate them all. Seriously, the bloody Maori's are the only native race to ever get a treaty from the vicious pommy bastard tribe!
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Deadly spiders? New Zealand has no snakes and only one species of poisonous spider
That's because the Maori's ate them all. Seriously, the bloody Maori's are the only native race to ever get a treaty from the vicious pommy bastard tribe!
Not wise to eat poisonous spiders. Venomous ones, now that could be another matter...
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That's an interesting assertion. How are you defining native? And treaty? (I'm assuming that 'vicious pommy bastard tribe' refers to us inhabitants of the sceptred isle) Surely Britain must have had a number of treaties with Indian principalities (although I suppose that would have been the East India Company rather than the British state). I thought ho
Re:so... (Score:5, Interesting)
You totally forgot New Zealand's only native land mammal, the bat. There's an amazing video of the native bat running, because it'd evolved to be flightless like the birds.
But, the Haast Eagle was unconfirmed before this? I've been brought up and it's always been a fact to me.
Re:so... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:so... (Score:5, Funny)
"The actual news here is that they co-existed with the Maori"
If by co-exist you mean EAT THEM, then yes, there was a lot of co-existence.
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You know, those legends would be easily explained if "dragons" turned out to be some sort of fire-breathing dinosaur, but we're not allowed to entertain notions of dinosaurs coexisting with humans in the time-line of biological evolution.
Re:so... (Score:4, Insightful)
we're not allowed to entertain notions of dinosaurs coexisting with humans in the time-line of biological evolution.
You can entertain any notion you want. Don't expect anyone to consider your ideas anything more than entertainment until there's some evidence.
As far as the evolutionary time line, it's not a matter of "you're not allowed" so much as "there's a gap of hundreds of millions of years between the youngest known (non-bird) dinosaur fossil and the earliest known primate fossil." Call me when you find a dinosaur fossil from 100k years ago. Until then, I think I'll refrain from subscribing to your newsletter.
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It wouldn't be the first time a "long-extinct" creature had been discovered to be not quite so long-extinct as we'd thought.
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Fire breathing isn't hard to explain. Fish control their depth using a swim bladder, which contains air (providing buoyancy) and is squeezed to increase the fish's density. A few species of fish generate electricity for communication and attack. If you pass electricity through salt water, you can separate it into hydrogen and oxygen. A fish that stored hydrogen in its swim bladder, instead of air, would be able to fly, using its flippers for directional control, rather than lift (although it would need
Video link (Score:5, Informative)
There's an amazing video of the native bat running, because it'd evolved to be flightless like the birds.
Video [youtube.com]
Shame on you for talking up something so cool and not providing a link.
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It's not actually flightless, though it does spend most of its time on the ground.
Re:so... (Score:5, Informative)
You totally forgot New Zealand's only native land mammal, the bat. There's an amazing video of the native bat running, because it'd evolved to be flightless like the birds.
The native bat is not flightless. It does a funny scamper thing along the ground but this does not make it flightless.
But, the Haast Eagle was unconfirmed before this? I've been brought up and it's always been a fact to me.
Haasts Eagle bones were identified in 1870 by Julius Von Haast. This thing preyed on the Moa, a 12-foot tall 500lb flightless bird. There is no question that a human would have been a much easier much more defenseless snack than a Moa. It would be unlikely that they didn't eat the occasional human.
When the first polynesian settlers showed up they would have climbed out of their Waka http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waka-canoes [teara.govt.nz] and on to the lunch menu.
Re:so... (Score:4, Insightful)
You totally forgot New Zealand's only native land mammal, the bat. There's an amazing video of the native bat running, because it'd evolved to be flightless like the birds.
Haasts Eagle bones were identified in 1870 by Julius Von Haast. This thing preyed on the Moa, a 12-foot tall 500lb flightless bird. There is no question that a human would have been a much easier much more defenseless snack than a Moa. It would be unlikely that they didn't eat the occasional human.
A human much easier meal than a moa? The first humans before they knew about Haast eagle maybe, then the occasional child or woman, and then it was over for the easy meals, more likely encounter was full grown Maori males looking for a vengence and the high status of coming back in the tribe with Haast eagle beak, talons and feathers...
Imho it was the occasional human meal was what caused the extinction of Haast eagle, probably more than overhunting of the Moas: No easy meal after the first few unaware victims, and systematic destruction of nests, youngs and preying adults afterwards...just like all other predators meeting the homo sapiens and having the bad idea (well, more the natural idea not yet eradicated by darwinian evolution) of thinking "this naked monkey looks like easy meal".
And not only eat the good old homo sapiens, but also eating any of his food stock would turn a bad idea for long term survival: RIP wolves, american lions, lynx, ...: a top predator sharing territory with a sufficiently dense human population is doomed.
Re:so... (Score:5, Funny)
What have Texans got to do with it?
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because it'd evolved to be flightless like the birds.
You mean 'was designed to'.
--
I don't mind the karma burn, just can't let a joke slip by
Re:so... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually there is no evidence that there was ever any land animals whatsoever in NZ except for lizards, insects and spiders.
However unlike Australia, not all of them are poisonous and potentially fatal to humans...
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Actually there is no evidence that there was ever any land animals whatsoever in NZ except for lizards, insects and spiders. Unless you count flightless birds.
I think the usual claim is no mammals except for bats. There were other animals that you didn't mention, such as worms and centipedes.
Re:so... (Score:5, Funny)
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Bats are still mammals, and there are certainly species of bats in NZ that predate humans.
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DNA? (Score:2, Funny)
Is there any chance of getting some DNA, cloning a few of these dudes, so that we can set them loose in the cities? I can see the population problem slowly improving. I can see the gene pool improving, at the same time. This idea has promise.....
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Damn. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:NZ pacifist warrior culture (Score:5, Informative)
New Zealand has two military intelligence bases, Waihopi and the other I forget the name of, both of which are apart of the ECHELON Network. New Zealand 'Peace Keepers' are situated in Timor Leste, were involved in Bougainvillea (both small Pacific islands) and are in various other Pacific nations right now. New Zealand followed ' lead into South Africa in the Boer Wars, even conquered German Samoa at the start of World War One (we literally had a Prime Minister with an Imperialist vision for New Zealand at one point), went to Africa and and Europe during WWI (the famous words about Britain 'Where she goes, we go') and by a quirk of our time zones, New Zealand was the first to declare war on Germany. We fought in Europe again during WWII, and we protected the Pacific from the Japanese threat. In the fifties, we sent the K-Force into Korea, and troops got involved in the Malay Conflict (as 'military advisor's' of course). I have a second-cousin once removed that was killed fighting in Vietnam in the NZ Contingent, though our force over there was a token. And up until 2006 the S.A.S. were in Afghanistan, and rumoured to have done over the border trips into Iraq. They've just been given the go ahead for redeployment.
In short, do your research man.
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I've experience the very same thing in the Caribbean. I wonder if it's a conspiracy.
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You should start your research here [invadenewzealand.com].
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Re:NZ pacifist warrior culture (Score:4, Funny)
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So, while NZ may no longer be looking to go to war, back the F' up if they ever do.
The same can be said from all of England's colonies/conquests. The ANZACs surely earned their reputation in both world wars, but would you discount the role played by the Gurkhas, Canadians, or even the Scots? When you heard bagpipes, saw turbans, or heard "eh" or "no worries" on the battlefield, it was time to run...
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My grandfather fought in 5 WW2 campaigns. Whilst lined up waiting to be evacuated (australians, scots, canadians, I think greek) from *somewhere* via a beach, British redcap's on horseback arrived and announced that all the colonial troops would have to stand aside while the British troops were evacuated first.
The battle hardened Australian troops responded by killing all 12 MP's, queue jumping is disliked to this day in Australia.
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The battle hardened Australian troops responded by killing all 12 MP's They killed 12 Members of Parliament?
You wish.
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Re:NZ pacifist warrior culture (Score:5, Interesting)
I think, from what I've read somewhere, that another reason the Maoris didn't come off as badly as some of the other indigenous people the British came across is that they were excellent fighters. Since they did spend most of their spare time fighting each other they had had a lot of practice when it came to fighting the British.
Despite the fact the colonists had naval guns and firearms the Maoris were able to devise tactics which completely negated the advantage they would have otherwise provided and dealt out a couple of fairly comprehensive beatings to the colonists so much so that during WWI the British actually recruited Maori elders to advise them how to conduct effective trench warfare.
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Not really quite the case. Maori and the British fought tooth and nail for most of the 19th century. In fact, some British officers wanted nothing more than to completely wipe Maori off the face of the planet, and in some areas pretty much succeeded.
NZ's history as far as the colony is concerned is far from peaceful. Maori didn't stop fighting each other, maybe. But they didn't just ignore the British either. They used the British technology against each other, and also against the British.
The major issue w
New Zealand fauna (Score:5, Informative)
I lived in New Zealand for awhile and it's shocking the number of flightless birds that died out. The final death blow to some species was the introduction of rats. They ate the eggs of birds and wiped out many species of Weta Bugs. New Zealand missed out on the mega Fauna extinction their's happened in the last 2,000 years instead of 10,000 to 15,000 years ago. Modern science just missed out on a lot of species. Hard to believe how different the world was 20,000 years ago, 500 years ago was nothing. It was only a few lifetimes before Europeans set foot in New Zealand.
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Re:New Zealand fauna (Score:4, Funny)
and wiped out many species of Weta Bugs.
So that's why their massive software runs so well!
Big bird. (Score:2)
Now this is big bird.
And now you know why LOTR was made in New Zealand (Score:5, Funny)
The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!
And you thought that was CG!
And people want to save the dying species.. (Score:2)
Then again
Kind of a shame... (Score:2)
It would be cool if it was alive today...
I mean, it's not as if that's the only creature that could singlehandedly overpower a human, even the only one that could swallow us whole. Should we have killed all the lions, tigers, and bears?
I would love to have seen one of these in a zoo.
Of course, the fact that they're gone means we can actually go to New Zealand safely...
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"Of course, the fact that they're gone means we can actually go to New Zealand safely..."
Dude, you haven't been paying attention. All the badass critters have been killed off, because there are badass PEOPLE living there!! Between the Maori and the Anglos, you're likely to be eaten if you visit there!!
Re:Kind of a shame... (Score:5, Funny)
It would be cool if it was alive today...
Yeah... That would roc!!
In Tune... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:In Tune... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:In Tune... (Score:5, Insightful)
Are any of us native to anywhere except Africa?
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Human beings are not native to anyway other than Africa.
It is usual to regard the surviving (in significant numbers) identifiable group that has been longest in a place as native - so we can regard the English as native to England, the Turks as native to Turkey, the Japanese as native to Japan etc.
I cannot think of anywhere that has not been overrun by invaders who have displaced a previous people at some point its its history.
Re:In Tune... (Score:4, Interesting)
The Welsh have a greater claim to be the natives of England than the English do, given that the Anglo-Saxons invaded from Europe around the 5th century AD and displaced the Brythonic tribes. Hell, even the Romans were in England before the English.
The same is true for Scotland as well. The native Picts, most likely also Brythonic, were well established by the time the Gaels (known to the Romans as the Scotti) arrived from Ireland, but were eventually assimilated into Gaelic society.
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Yes, and yet modern day Maori have rights to issue themselves "Customary fishing permits" which are except from any bag limits or equipment restrictions that all other amateur fishermen must obey.
Re:In Tune... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you may have missed the sarcastic subtext of the original post. There's a recurrent myth in the modern world, especially in technologically developed societies, that "natives" or "primitive man" or whatever somehow lived and still live "in tune" with nature or in harmony with it or whatever. They all supposedly respect the land in a way we don't, are inherently wise, spiritual, blah, blah, blah.
You are, of course, correct in pointing out that hunting species to extinction is a very natural thing to do, though it depends on how you define things. The original poster was poking fun at the myths using the terms as propagators of the myth would themselves define them. Arguing what's natural and what's not is a different issue.
More often than not, past and "primitive" societies would have exploited or would exploit nature as thoroughly as we do, anyway, were it not for limitations of populations and technology.
Re:In Tune... (Score:5, Insightful)
past and "primitive" societies would have exploited or would exploit nature as thoroughly as we do, anyway, were it not for limitations of populations and technology.
Dead on. The only reason the buffalo was still around in huge quantities was because native americans didn't have rifles, or horses for that matter.
Native cultures were famous for "slash and burn" agriculture, possibly the most destructive farming method around that leeches all the nitrates out of the soil in just a few years, forcing the farmer to keep moving (and destroying his surrounding jungle). Crop rotation was a European invention.
One mustn't let guilty feelings about the de facto destruction of native cultures by European civilization lead us into believing that somehow these people were much better than us. They were just people. Some were good. Some were bad. Every one of them left an environmental mark on the world around them.
Re:In Tune... (Score:5, Informative)
Every one of them left an environmental mark on the world around them.
Yes, but the environmental mark was, on average, a lot smaller than modern living. The Australian Aborigines had a way of life that was essentially unchanged for tens of thousands of years. The lifestyle consisted of finding water sources, hunting for food, and collecting wild growing berries and fruits from the land (not farming). Everything that they constructed was made from wood and other natural, biodegradable materials, from completely renewable and sustainable sources. Without intervention, they would probably have continued their lifestyle for tens of thousands of more years. Modern living is not sustainable - we are facing Peak Oil in the next few decades, we have an estimated 20 years or so of coltan supplies left, and we are using up many other limited resources relatively quickly. Our current lifestyle is based on consumption of resources that we can't replace. The Aborigine way of life would still be viable in 200 years, our Western way of life may well not be (people will do their best to adapt, but that adaptation may involve going back to a lifestyle of 200 years ago, with a strong focus on manual agriculture and labour).
Native cultures were famous for "slash and burn" agriculture
Many (most?) native cultures did not practice farming, instead living off wildly growing foods and hunting. Some Aborigines practiced "fire farming [wired.com]" in the last 5,000 years (after 40,000 of not farming in any sense of the word). Researchers suggest that this was sustainable "Aboriginal people's use of fire involved developing a self-sustaining mosaic of burnt and unburnt areas that reduced the damaging effects of fire [abc.net.au]". The fact that it was a stable way of life for 5,000 years suggests that it was more sustainable than the current fossil fuel based lifestyle.
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This is so, so wrong. Slash and burn agriculture (swidden) is generally sustainable form of farming and many indigenous people have practiced it continuously for thousands of years.
Sure, go tell the people of Madagascar (a common example) how sustainable it is.
I drove through the country and saw firsthand the damage it does to the land and animals (you think the small land critters, chameleons and insects have time to run away ? well they don't). All the topsoil gets wiped away by the rain, then the villages get wiped away, then people move and destroy some other place.
The island is slowly turning into a desert.
Re:In Tune... (Score:5, Informative)
*cough cough*
The buffalo wasn't finished off because the white invaders ate them up. The Army wanted the herds destroyed, with the goal of depriving natives of food. Around the same time, the railroads promoted trophy hunting, because the herds were a threat to the trains.
The near extinction of the buffalo would be less shameful if they had been hunted for food. Millions of buffalo were slaughtered, just to rot in the sun.
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Actually, the Maori people were very conservation aware and utilised temporary taboos on resources to preserve them, known as Rahui [wikipedia.org]. It might not have helped the Moa, but to call the close connection of their spirituality and natural conservation a myth is quite disingenuous.
Glad these things are gone (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Glad these things are gone (Score:5, Funny)
Some species of Terror Bird [wikipedia.org] would chase down their prey and literally peck it to death. They had an interesting feature about these things on Discovery last night; with this story it just seemed appropriate to mention it.
Polly wants a cracker. NOW. And a couple of llamas. And a six pack of assorted primates, starting with you.
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Kea [wikipedia.org] have also been known to do that to sheep.
It...can't...be (Score:2)
A legend of a man... eating birds?
What's next? Some kind of ...fried chicken?
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It *can* happen, I tell ya! :)
Let me break it down for you... (Score:3, Funny)
Don't go into Power Dome A [penny-arcade.com].
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Or the garage [penny-arcade.com].
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Not to reply to myself, but...
There's more [penny-arcade.com].
Cool, but can we clone it? (Score:5, Funny)
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It became extinct fairly recently, why don't we clone it? Surely these things will make a great addition to the New Zealand Air Defense Force.
Well, it would at least mean that New Zealand would have an Air Defence Force...
(I'm Canadian [satirewire.com]. I'm allowed to make these jokes.)
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While they might not hagve an air defence force, I believe they recently started testing anti air missiles. Apparently their epsionage forces finally recovered the plans to what they call The Catapault.
(I'm Australian. I'm allowed to make these jokes).
I'm a NZer living in australia, and I approve of your joke :)
NZ is a great place, but I'm convinced that the population is just too small, and some of the people living there are just too much of a dead weight to really let the country succeed.
This is a shame, as there are some awesomely smart creative people there.
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A friendly hello from Denmark another of the world's small countries.
I've always felt an inexplicable kinship with new zealanders and the dutch.
I've never been to either country, but I just have this feeling that they are
quite similar to Denmark. Small countries where the people are perfectly
happy to lead quiet lives out of the lime light of the world stage and
yet producing a large amount of culture and research compared to their size.
I guess i'm trying to say that there are many ways for a country to succe
Unladen Velocity? (Score:2)
With a wingspan of up to three metres and weighing 18kg, the female was twice as big as the largest living eagle, the Steller's sea eagle.
So it's late and I don't have my trusty TI-89, can anyone calculate the maximum airspeed of this beast? ... Unladen of course =)
I can't see it being a problem really, unless there is an African variant....
Bird eating man, man eating bird? (Score:2)
So, the questions begin...
Man tastes like chicken, or was this just fowl 69-action pr0n?
Excuse me while I bleach my brain.
In Australia too! (Score:5, Funny)
Australia also has plenty of man-eating birds only there they call them Sheilas...
That's nothing (Score:3, Funny)
I went to a fair once and saw a six foot man eating chicken.
True story.
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He was a Colonel and even had millions of people helping him.
Re:Still unanswered... (Score:5, Funny)
It started with just the most basic machines, toys really. They're were inspired by God because He'd taken it into His thought about His thought thinking about His thought that since He'd created the place, He was best seen as the Designer, an Intelligent Designer. The Devil argued God hadn't really designed anything at all, had just set things out then let things "Go to Hell", as the Devil put it. But God went on about Intelligent Design and how Man, in His image, should be an Intelligent Designer too. That's when it all started about the machines. The Devil can't stand infernal machines. It's his hearing, it's too acute. He has to be that way to hear even the slightest hint of malicious intent. He finally had enough and headed out with all the lesser spirits in attendance. The lesser spirits were spooked by the machines, called them unnatural.
I was probably the last one to get a good deal on my soul. Soon after I cut my deal, the Devil just didn't make any more offers. His heart just wasn't in it anymore.
God likes the way things have gone. His creations creating. Turning out machines intelligently designed, or nearly so. We haven't spoken in a while, but, when last we spoke He was big on the idea of the entire world as a giant Dyson sphere. I miss the old days when evil had some value.
Regards
A. Faustus
it's past my bedtime, i'm over tired and am probably gonna be sorry i posted this, but what the hell.
Re:Still unanswered... (Score:5, Funny)
"After an unprecedented archeological effort, the last page of the original bible has finally been found. It contains just one sentence."
it's past my bedtime, i'm over tired and am probably gonna be sorry i posted this, but what the hell.
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In the same dig they also located the first page of the bible. It reads,
To my darling Candy.
All characters portrayed are fictional and any
resemblance to any persons is merely coincidental
Religious groups around the world are condemning the find and refuting its authenticity
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Re:Okay. . . (Score:4, Funny)
Pffft. We don't want New Zealand! Tasmanians are bad enough with all their in-breeding. If we allow the New Zealanders in we'll forever be associated with beastiality as well!
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Perhaps, but only in a hard place.
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"giant man-eating birds... a raptor that became extinct just 500 years ago."
I guess it means that finally men won...
Yes, like always: big predator hunting homo sapiens means that the predator is on the fastlane to extinction....Except if it can retreat to a territory where human population is non-existent or very sparse (like polar bear for example), it is doomed....