The US Swim Team's Secret Weapon, Science 180
Hugh Pickens writes "When American Swimmer Margaret Hoelzer goes for the gold tonight in the 200-meter backstroke, part of her success will be due to a new system developed by Tim Wei, a mechanical and aerospace engineer at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, that uses fluid dynamics to study human movement allowing scientists and coaches to study how fast and hard a swimmer pushes the water as he moves through it. 'Wei uses a tracking technique called digital particle image velocimetry, commonly used to measure the flow of small particles around an airplane or small fish or crustaceans in water.' Wei filtered compressed air in a scuba tank through a porous hose to create bubbles about a tenth of a millimeter in diameter. When an athlete swims through a sheet of bubbles that rises from the pool floor, a camera captures their flow around the swimmer's body and the images show the direction and speed of the bubbles, which Wei then translates into the swimmer's thrust using software that he wrote."
Sexism (Score:5, Funny)
"When American Swimmer Margaret Hoelzer goes for the gold tonight in the 200-meter backstroke..."
"...to study how fast and hard a swimmer pushes the water as he moves through it."
I'm Margaret Hoelzer, you insensitive sexist swimsuit-designing clods!
Re:Sexism (Score:5, Funny)
Problems with slashdot...is it just me? (Score:2)
Is it just me or do other people never see the first post?
I can see this reply, but what's it replying to? No idea....
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
O well, this will get modded off topic and we can move on with our lives.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe you have your comment threshold set too high? If you browse at +2, that might explain it. I browse at -1, and see everything (for better or worse).
Swimmer gender issues (Score:5, Funny)
I dunno - if you've seen some of the female swimmers, then it's not hard to make that mistake.
Re: (Score:3)
Exactly, you need only look at their muscles and hear their voices and you'll come to the conclusion that they are inyecting them with something, even if they pass the doping tests.
Same with this american guy Phelps... He is either on some new drug or he's a bloody mutant! Gold medals and olympic records falling like flies!
Re:Problems with slashdot...is it just me? (Score:5, Funny)
No, it's not just you.
The original slashdot page layout and comment threading system was junk. It was obviously "designed" at 3:00 in the morning after a mushroom and hash party in Taco's dorm room. They would fix it, but nobody at slashdot understands how it works.
The recent v2.0 slashdot page layout and comment threading system is also junk. It was obviously "designed" at 3:00 in the afternoon after a martini and coke lunch at an expensive steak house. They would fix it, but nobody at slashdot understands that it sucks.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Allow me to introduce you to the "Parent" button. It's what I use in order to bring up the post that someone replied to.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
As an RPI graduate, I can ASSURE you this researcher has never seen a woman before, either.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I'm allergic to /. memes you insensitive, cliche clod!
*AHH-CHOO*
Re:Sexism (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, note the following sentence: "I walked down the street, saw a boy and a bike, and he was walking quickly." In this example, the sentence attempts to reference the boy, but actually references the bike. The original statement is grammatically correct.
I'm an English teacher you insensitive clod!
Re:Sexism (Score:5, Funny)
I'll ambiguously define your antecedent!
Re:Sexism (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Sexism (Score:4, Informative)
By examining the top bar of the frame. A top bar that is horizontal from steering stem to the top of the seat tube is the opposite sex from one where the top bar slants downward from steering stem to about half way up the seat tube.
Re: (Score:2)
And why oh why, I have to ask... WHY is the one with the higher bar the typical design for guys? Might as well call that bar a nutcracker.
On a related note, if you like to tinker with your bicycle, *always* be sure the seat is properly tightened. Tipping forward is bad enough; tipping back and landing on the tire.... that's a whole new level of pain coming to meet you.
Re:Sexism (Score:4, Informative)
Because women used to wear skirts to do *everything* and you can't ride a *bicycle* side-saddle.
Re: (Score:2)
I'll bet, but on the other hand, it's probably a case of bye bye dingleberries, forever.
Re: (Score:2)
'How do you sex a bike?'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1569272/Man-who-had-sex-with-bicycle-sentenced.html [telegraph.co.uk]
Sheriff Colin Miller added: "In almost four decades in the law I thought I had come across every perversion known to mankind, but this is a new one on me. I have never heard of a 'cycle-sexualist'. "
I knew female athletes had bulging muscles,but ... (Score:2, Funny)
I caught that too, and wondered if they had just inadvertently disclosed a cheating scandal at the Olympics.
Will be using science... (Score:2)
Changing is easier said then done. (Score:5, Interesting)
After doing something for years and years, changing the way you do something, whether it's a swimming stroke or tennis or golf swing, isn't done instantly. It takes quite a bit of concerted effort and attention to change it. I'd be really interested in how and what the coach does to get the swimmers to change.
I've witnessed swimmers in college that have bad habits that they gained as youth and they can't seam to shake them.
Re: (Score:2)
Football (American) coaches at the University of Florida did something similar last year. Working with the university's Biomechanics and Motion Analysis Laboratory to analyze quarterback Tim Tebow's throwing motion. After adjustments were made to his throwing motion based on that work, he went on to be the first sophomore Heisman award winner, given to the nation's top/favorite/hyped player.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Changing is easier said then done. (Score:5, Interesting)
It is plausible that adaptability is one trait that helped the Olympic swimmers become Olympic swimmers in the first place. Certainly it would be interesting to hear more about it.
Re:Changing is easier said then done. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Changing is easier said then done. (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe they're just more adaptive (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps there's a coaching aspect to it but I think if someone stays at the top of their field for a long time, it says a lot about that person's abilities. I wonder if it's simply that the best swimme
Re:Maybe they're just more adaptive (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Changing is easier said then done. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've witnessed swimmers in college that have bad habits that they gained as youth and they can't seam to shake them.
About twenty years ago, famous golf swing coach Butch Harmon saw Tiger at a day camp for kids. At the end of the day he knew Tiger would be famous one day but not because of the way he hit the ball. It was because of the way he took direction and coaching advice. Butch said that over the years he had seen quite a few kids hit the ball better than Tiger, but none so eagerly seek advice and apply it on the field as Tiger did.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In golf, you optimize the golf clubs, in tennis -- it's the rackets, and in swimming -- it's the swimsuits/body-suits. That's how you create the illusion of athletic progress and inject a little bit of
Interpretation? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interpretation? (Score:5, Informative)
I have much more power than any of the girls, well most of them, on the US Team, but in the water, they'll blow my doors off because of better technique - the ability to apply their power in the water. That's the best I can do. It's been a while since I read my swim coaching stuff.
It's not just technique (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's not just technique (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't buy into journalists and others grasping at straws here. They couldn't find anything different about the pool, so they start reaching for things that would be obvious to anyone who watched swimming four years ago or has ever seen a swimming event. Extra lanes? Common. Wave-dissipating buoy lines? Common. Extra depth? Eh, not so much, but I know my school's pool is more than 2 meters in depth and it's considered OK.
I think what you're seeing is natural, both the sportsmen and women are better than ever, and the swimsuits are better than ever. Result: world records falling left and right.
I'd like to see the NBC and other groups congratulate Phelps rather than talk about fluff stories like how it's such a fast pool. If it's so fast, and it's not that Phelps is simply the fastest swimmer, then, well, all the other swimmers should be racing for first rather than second.
Re:It's not just technique (Score:4, Funny)
Increasing the viscosity would reduce turbulence...
Re:It's not just technique (Score:5, Interesting)
Everyone has known about this for years and I'm not quite sure why it's suddenly news now. There are plenty of pools out there that have 10+ lanes (in college we had 10+ lanes and we swam in the deep end of the pool for SCY races). It really seems like most of the discussions about the reasons for the WRs falling are more or less just to fill the time that the announcers have between events.
I realize that the general public doesn't understand how pools, suits, and training methods have evolved over the last 15 years but it's seriously not news worthy IMO. US Swimming is just trying to get people to pay attention to how cool swimming is so that they get the most out of the "Olympic Cycle". The "Olympic Cycle" is the phenomenon that occurs following every Olympic year where swim teams see a upswing in the number of youngsters trying out for swim teams because of all the coverage ("ohh, Mommy, I want to be Michael Phelps/Natalie Coughlin/Hall Jr/Krazelburg/Dolan/etc too!")
Another flash in the pan caused by mass media dumbing everything down to a mostly unaware public. Move along.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, the 10 lane thing isn't new, but this is the first Olympics in a 3m deep pool. The depth would definitely help reduce turbulence.
Re: (Score:2)
There was also one change that lowered times: nobody races in the lanes next to the pool walls. As such, this means lower turbulence in water for all those swimmers in the other lanes, resulting in much faster performances.
Related research on the dolphin kick Phelps uses (Score:3, Informative)
In this Washington Post article [washingtonpost.com]
Re:Related research on the dolphin kick Phelps use (Score:5, Interesting)
In 25 yard pools during backstroke it was easier to dolphin kick and swim 8 yards with the last 2 dedicated to the turn.
As for swimming underwater: Most sprinters in the 50m freestyle don't take a breath during the race. In short course (25m pool) 50m races I maybe took one breath on the way back - depends how much air I released during my turn. If I swam at the right speed I could get about 75m before needing to come up and take another breath. But this was far from racing speed.
Olympic research (Score:2)
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2008/august/news_15012.html
Now all we need is an Olympic event that uses internal combustion engines and we'd be set.
Re:Olympic research (Score:4, Funny)
I think you mean lasers.
Hmm... I have a correction to the title (Score:5, Funny)
Though that's not very secret. Sort of like Victoria's.
Re:Hmm... I have a correction to the title (Score:5, Funny)
It's event pollution. See: http://www.realmansolympics.com/ [realmansolympics.com]
Re: (Score:2)
The author of that website doesn't know what he's talking about. Cycling is one of the toughest sports out there, lycra or no lycra. It's very much a sport for real men.
Re:Hmm... I have a correction to the title (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure that coming in fourth place in a single Olympic event is a real accomplishment.
Re:Hmm... I have a correction to the title (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually ... not so much. Wether or not it is an accomplishment depends on how you qualified.
In some events, it's the individual countries that set the bar for it, sometimes you give countries wildcards. Just look at Eric "The Eal" Moussambani [wikipedia.org] who managed to swim the 100 meter freestyle in 1 minute 52.72 seconds. A time that I myself is able to match (I do it in about 1 minute 50 in a 25 meter pool).
In some of the other events I've seen, I've heard the Danish commentators lament the fact that the Danish Oly
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The difference between sprinting and distance is certainly respected in the default settings. It's treated like running, where the shortest and longest distances get the most points.
Where swimming gives in to useless medal inflation is in the different strokes. We don't have track events where everybody has to run sideways, or backwards, or upside-down. A runner is welcome to do that, if he can, and if it's faster he'll win.
That's how swimming should be: they should be able to use any stroke they like.
Ha!! (Score:3, Funny)
Screw science. Their weapon is Intelligent Design!
Re: (Score:2)
Intelligent Design
I would like to point out that People who understand the real meaning of the Universe are very good swimmers as they are commonly swimming away from Pirates.
It's not just American athletes that are faster (Score:5, Interesting)
Everyone is faster in the pool. I watched a race where even the 5th place finisher came in above the old world record time.
Just read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/sports/olympics/12records.html?_r=1&oref=slogin [nytimes.com]
Over above whatever the swimmers are using, the pool itself is engineered to create faster times. Everything from the lane dividers, to the wall of the pool, to the extra meter of depth are meant to dissipate turbulence in the water and increase times.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
i'm starting to hear reports, admittedly unconfirmed, that several in the USA team have been found consuming DHMO [dhmo.org] prior to competing - this substance is well known for temporarily improving athletic performance, though admittedly is difficult to detect using the current dope-tests.
i wouldn't be surprised if this scandal hits the papers over the next few days.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Probably just 'contamination' from the swimmers.
There's nothing that special about the pool (Score:5, Insightful)
It is engineered to reduce turbulence but no more than other top-level pools around the world. Pools with 10 lanes, slop gutters to eat waves, and greater then 2m depth are not unheard of. Besides, while plenty of world records are being beaten at these Olympics, plenty were also beaten before the Olympics...in the last year or two many world records have gone down at other events. Before each race NBC puts up a listing of the current world record for that event. Take a look--many are dated 2006 or 2007; some date back a few more years, but none are very old.
We happen to be in a period of dramatic change in swimming right now, and there are probably a number of reasons. If you want to point to just one, it is probably that there is a lot more money in the sport now. So Michael Phelps could afford, through endorsements and grants, to train at a full-time professional level since he was an early teen. This has huge implications for his technique, fitness, health, and mental toughness for competition.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, it's mostly due to the swimsuits they're wearing. All of the winners are wearing special suits that decrease drag as much as possible and also have rigid areas that reinforce the swimmer's form so that it doesn't degrade as the swimmer tires.
Yeah, the spirit of the games is pretty much gone.
Re: (Score:2)
Essentially, we're borrowing a lot of formerly classified research into lowering the resistance of things moving through water (the basic physics involved came from research done to make ships go faster and to reduce the resistance of a submarine running underwater; I'm almost guessing that they borrowed the research done by the revolutionary USS Albacore, a submarine that resulted in a quantum leap forward in underwater speed).
Chinese Quality control (Score:5, Funny)
Everyone is faster in the pool.
Yes, they probably didn't level it right and they are all getting a downhill advantage.
Re:Chinese Quality control (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It's not just American athletes that are faster (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps more to the point, it's not just US that uses science.
(And yes, I speak from experience. I can't tell you exactly what I do for a living, but let's just say that next Olympics, Australia's rowers are going to have a distinct advantage.)
Re: (Score:2)
Hrmm ... do you work in bionics? Or maybe you specialize in miniturization of outboard engines?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps a bit of perspective would help to make this seem not quite as ridiculous.
First off, you learn a lot about the human body by studying what it does under extreme conditions.
Secondly, most new technologies are multiple-use. The same device could be used to monitor athletes or intensive care patients. Or the same material could be used to make racing bikes or defence aircra
China is using science too (Score:4, Interesting)
I went to China for a visit this summer and there was this interesting Chinese Olympic history series playing on the TV.
Apparently after the Atlanta Olympics in 1996, the Chinese considered it to be a disappointing showing because many Chinese favorites did not get a Gold medal. So the Chinese government got some experts together and they came up with a new plan for how the athletes are trained in China. They first listed several sports the Chinese were good at traditionally, like table tennis, badminton, gymnastics, etc. They then established two research facilities for each sport. The purpose of these research facilities were to find more effective methods to train an athlete.
For example, the rowing team was sent to go train in Tibet because there it is at a high altitude. At high altitudes there is less oxygen so it trains the athletes' body to use oxygen more effectively.
While us nerds can't exactly participate in sports competitively we definitely have the skills to improve training and playing methods of a sport =D
Re:China is using science too (Score:5, Informative)
For example, the rowing team was sent to go train in Tibet because there it is at a high altitude. At high altitudes there is less oxygen so it trains the athletes' body to use oxygen more effectively.
Yet another item that's been known forever. That's nothing more than fluff. US Swimming's Olympic Training Center for swimming is located isn't located in Colorado Springs because it's an exciting town you know. I swam there for a few days before HS Nationals in 1997 before the meet which took place at the Air Force Academy. They were trying to get us prepped for swimming at altitude because, as the words placed in tiles on the wall said something like, "7,258 feet -- the air is rare"
I learned many of the underwater techniques used by the current greats which were developed while I was at the peak of my performance in HS. It wasn't Michael Phelps or this new scientist suddenly creating the underwater dolphin work you see now. In the mid 1990s (into the late 1990s when it was limited to 15m) you could go as far as you wanted underwater for every event (backstroke fell first to 15m and then the rest soon followed). Misty Hyman was one of the pioneers along with Denis Pankratov and they turned on their sides (much like Coughlin still does) to take the best advantage of the swirls of water that are created as you move through it.
As I posted above, this is all not new technology and it's not worth even talking about now 10-15 years after it was developed.
Re: (Score:2)
And not only that, but the research showed that it's actually better to train at sea level and sleep at high altitude. (or.. maybe the other way around, I forget. The point was that it's better to split the time)
The problem? Arbitrary rules restricting the use of hyperbaric (and/or hypobaric) chambers.
Re: (Score:2)
While us nerds can't exactly participate in sports competitively we definitely have the skills to improve training and playing methods of a sport =D
Or misread the results in order to come up with new and creative ways to get back those jocks from high school.
"Yeah, the computer says that you will improve your times if you learn to breath better - practice saying "eye am ay jackass/"
science? (Score:5, Funny)
I thought our *three* weapons were fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll post again.
Let me get this right... (Score:3, Insightful)
By doping, which is "bad", the athlete is increasing his ability to overcome the environment.
By using technology we're mitigating the effects of the environment on their performance. That's good?
The spirit of the Olympics is long gone.
Re: (Score:2)
Doping = Dangerously modifying YOURSELF to beat everyone else. This rapidly becomes an arms race which only leads to dead athletes and wasted potential.
Finding better ways of doing things to beat everyone else by applying thought isn't the same.
Nor are all 'better ways' allowed. I've yet to see someone use a jet ski or a powered scuba sled in any of these contests.
Re: (Score:2)
Finding better ways of doing things to beat everyone else by applying thought isn't the same.
Why not? Using drugs is often finding a better way to do something. And plenty of the allowed techniques that athletes practice are dangerous to the athlete.
It just seems that you think drugs=bad, and can't offer a rational reason why one form of enhancement is OK, but another is not.
Their secret weapon: science! (Score:2)
And they used that secret weapon to blind all the opposition.
the simplest answer is the right answer (Score:2)
New steroids & injection methods which can pass the drug tests are the biggest factor. Everything else is gravy. You think Natalie Coughlin looks like a colliflower by pushing around bubbles all day?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this for sale? (Score:4, Interesting)
Cause we're in the market [beijing2008.cn] right now.
Faster lap times due to ... (Score:5, Funny)
...being chased. By sharks. With lasers.
The high diving competitions are the result of releasing the shark and playing the video of the swimmer leaping out of the pool backwards.
this story brought to by the letter S (Score:4, Funny)
It works, bitches.
American strategy (Score:2, Interesting)
Well it doesn't seem to have helped. (Score:2)
She just came in a full second under Coventry, for the silver.
Now those Speedo swimsuits that shape the body... those have some obvious impact. Still, this is some cool work in fluid dynamics
Secret?? (Score:2)
Oblig XKCD ref (Score:2)
Science.
It works, Bitches.
"part of her success will be due to a... (Score:2)
new anally-mounted turbo-prop with the latest beta of what's been referred to as a 'cloaking device.' In related news this morning, Haliburton announced that they had been awarded a no-bid contract to supply the US Olympics Aquatics canteen with 100 kilos, each, of refried beans and extremely cheap tamales. Jalapenos, originally part of the same contract, were struck from the deal after what were termed, 'surprises', disrupted the ladies afternoon practice heats."
Re: (Score:2)
Nope, we manipulate the training ground, to better coach the athletes. Akin to using image recognition and tapes to aid in, say, prepping for a football game. Only the automation works much better.
Re: (Score:2)
I know your kidding around, but it gives the swimmers in the middle an advantage over the ones on sides if they have to deal with turbulance.
Really the empty side lanes were added in the spirit of fairness.
Re:The secret science is wrong (Score:4, Funny)
According to the BBC, Phelps's armoury of secret weapons includes ... Hot Grits! (no, really):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7562840.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Oh, and eggs. Lots of eggs. But don't try this at home:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/aug/15/foodanddrink.michaelphelps [guardian.co.uk]
Re:The secret science is wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I knew it! He's a mutant!
Re: (Score:2)
[...] All he needs now are gills.
And teflon skin...
Re:The secret science is wrong (Score:5, Funny)
And his body. He's like a dolphin. His proportions are perfect for swimming. And then he's double jointed in his ankles, elbows, shoulders AND chest. His armspan is 10cm greater than his height. All he needs now are gills.
Dolphins have gills?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I like this quote:
Anita Bean, sports nutritionist and author of Food for Fitness, finds it slightly hard to believe even Phelps can be expending quite as many calories as that. "Say he's doing about four miles a session, and a couple of sessions a day," she says, "plus his land training - I'd say he's burning maybe 5,000 calories in training, and maybe 2,500 simply to sustain himself. Something like 8,000 a day in all? Mind you, he is a very big bloke. I haven't looked at his schedules, but 12,000 seems a lot."
It doesn't take a nutritionist to work the First Law of Thermodynamics - if he were taking in more calories than he burned in one day than his weight (internal energy of the system) would have to increase proportionately to the unused Calories. As that obviously isn't happening, the work done by the system must approximately equal the energy introduced. As a trained nutritionist, she should probably know this... I wonder who she thinks is lying to her...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I struggled with the Google translation of that article, here [timesonline.co.uk] is an article on the same guy that covers the same ground for English speakers.