Rockets To Race Over Wisconsin Skies 210
Iron Condor writes with a reminder that that the first race of the Rocket Racing League (last mentioned here in April, after its 2005 founding) is set to take place later this month at Oshkosh AirVenture 08. This race, says Iron Condor,
"is exactly what it sounds like: NASCAR 1000m above ground in rocket-propelled airplanes. Created by X-prize founder/CEO Peter Diamandis, this is 'the next evolution of racing' (at least according to the promo video, which is definitely worth watching)..."
Doh! (Score:5, Funny)
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Vermont cheddar has everything from Wisconsin beat.
(I'm from Michigan)
Re:Doh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as a European, I have, and really no offence, found US cheese to range from bland for the better stuff, to disgusting for the most mass-market ranges. And the thing you call processed cheese is beyond description all together. I'm sorry, I really am - the people of the USA have contributed to culture and science in many, many ways - but your cheese is the foulest thing that anyone has ever had the gaul to pass off as food. I tried pretty much all of it until I found somewhere that imported proper English cheddar which I bought with great relief.
I guess it's just one of those things.
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You don't have to be sorry, you just aren't spoiled like I am - my dad was a dair
Re:Doh! (Score:5, Funny)
your cheese is the foulest thing that anyone has ever had the gaul to pass off as food.
You obviously haven't tried our beer.
Re:Doh! (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of the general cheeses are pretty bland stuff. However, you should go into a grocey store in Wisconsin and look in the "specialty cheeses" section, and you will find a wide selection of cheeses that routinely win international competitions.
That being said, they still tend to cede the whole area of "stinky cheeses" to the french.
And I have lived in Europe and Wisconsin and enjoy (and pay for) good cheese. I am living in California now, and miss the cheese.
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Speaking as a European, I have, and really no offence, found US cheese to range from bland for the better stuff, to disgusting for the most mass-market ranges.
Speaking as a life-long Wisconsinite who's marrying a French woman, and has lived near London (Twickenham) for a while and spent more time in/around Paris than I care for, you opinion is actually fairly valid. Wisconsin is know for it's cheese in the U.S., but that pretty much covers cheddar. Sure there's emmental (aka swiss), mozorella, Blue and parmesan but it's really not much variety at all.
I'm exaggerating a little bit and there are some quite good stuff out there, but it's also not cheese you're goi
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Fiscalini Bandaged Wrapped Cheddar from Modesto beat out all the English cheddars in London last year (first time Wyke Farms Trophy has ever been awarded to a non-English cheddar).
Flagship Reserve is a nice cheddar made up in Seattle.
Have you been to a good cheese shop? This country makes a lot of bad cheese, but there are some fine cheeses if you know where to look.
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but your cheese is the foulest thing that anyone has ever had the gaul to pass off as food.
If you really want to talk about gaul, look at France.
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Cheese and racing? All you need to attract Space Rats:
Avon: Bring that thing into close-up.
[Shots of the space chopper, getting larger and larger.]
Avon: Closer. Concentrate on the pilot. I want a close-up of his helmet.
[Shot of helmet revealing red silhouette of a rat.]
Vila: It's a Space Rat!
Soolin: Friends of yours?
Vila: Friends? Space Rats? There's no such thing as a friend of a Space Rat -- they even hate each other.
Tarrant: What else do you know about them?
Vila: They're maniacs, psychopaths! All they live for is sex and violence, booze and speed. And the fellows are just as bad. We had a couple in the penal colony once. They were always trying to frighten me.
Dayna: [Laughing] And they never succeeded, of course. What were they imprisoned for?
Vila: Breaking into transport museums. When the Federation banned all leisure transport, they went in for stealing anything on wheels or could fly. They were speed crazy, and I do mean crazy.
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Whimp, how the hell can a guy get any ice fishing done when it is above freezing.
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Sounds from rocket racing. (Score:2, Funny)
Whooosh!
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Oh yeah!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Rednecks racing rocket's 'round a ringed raceway! Radically refreshing!
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Wisconsin is not full of rednecks, its way to far north. Its full of cheeseheads, a subgroup of hicks.
(Just for the record, I grew up 20 miles south of the WI border)
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We cheeseheads are not a subgroup of hicks, you FIB.
(oh snap)
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Re:Oh yeah!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyhow, they said it was just like NASCAR, so I figured the spectators would be rednecks.
Yeah, when I saw "like NASCAR 1000m in the air", I was all, "oh great... ANOTHER NASCAR."
Seriously, anyone who watches real racecar driving on circuits internationally just shivers when you suggest "NASCAR", because it's boring to watch. "Go fast, turn left," I've heard it described as. And then, Indy and Champcar spun off of F1, to go around in ovals...
I remember playing a Indy race car simulator game back on the Apple ][e (yeah, old school racing sim!) and now I'm surprised looking back on it... the tires on the right-side are larger than the ones on the left... why? To help you turn left better... because SURPRISE! They're only going left!
Compared to GT racing, F1 racing, and hell, even freaking Autocross ("put up cones; instant track! can I drive my civic?") are way cooler and more interesting to watch than a bunch of dumb americans chasing their tail all day long.
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I think you are a brave brave man to post without the anonymous box checked.
Insulting Americans in one thing, but insulting NASCAR like that is just dangerous. Those people take their "sport" pretty seriously. I almost got thrown out of a bar once, on my face, for even suggesting a smidgen of what you are saying in your post.
I predict a flamebait/troll mod for you, and you should be thankful that is all you get.
Anyways, don't make fun of other people's sports like that. Racing in Europe *might* be more i
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I think you are a brave brave man to post without the anonymous box checked.
Or a woman.
by snowgirl (978879)
p.s. NASCAR is stupid and boring.
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Dude, this is Slashdot, not Earnhardt country. And NASCAR does suck. There are much better racing variants available even in the US.
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NASCAR is about the only choice without cable tho :(
And that is only for half the season, apparently one has to pay to see the rest now :/
There is the occasional Indycar race (NASCAR but scared to touch,ugh even worse) and sometimes a F1 race. I find the F1 races as boring as these people talking NASCAR ... it usually looks like a parade lap just faster. The British F1 race in the rain was cool tho :) Perhaps they all just make it look too easy. Or Perhaps NASCAR just needs rain tires :)
Back on topic...I ho
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My preferred provocation is to scream "TURN RIGHT, TURN RIGHT" at the TV.
I would agree that the previous poster is certainly trying to stir the pot. I mean, I'm pretty sure that most of the drivers who aren't dumb Americans are just dumb Europeans.
Re:Oh yeah!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Brave man? That comment was posted by "snowgirl".
On teh intertubes the women are men, and the girls are FBI agents.
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All men are men, all women are men and the children are FBI agents.
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i don't watch nascar to see "a bunch of dumb americans chasing their tail all day long.". i watch nascar to see a bunch of dumb americans crashing into the wall!!!
nothing beats a nascar-style 10 car crash.
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Totally agree. If they were going to make this so that it didn't suck .... it would be the RedBull air-race. I guess it'll be a whole new generation of entertaining international sport against the crap American copy.
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Eh, NASCAR road course races (Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Infineon Raceway, and Watkins Glen) are nice to watch, if only for the entertainment value of watching them struggle to move those beasts around real turns.
And of course, everyone loves the crashes.
Re:Oh yeah!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll take the bait. I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but my roommate is. "How can an otherwise intelligent young man get so much enjoyment out of such a crappy sport?" is what I asked myself. Part of it was certainly his upbringing - his dad was a huge fan. But you know what? Under the surface, it's actually pretty interesting.
The issue is that it's kind of like golf, only the people who tend to watch it are larger, rowdier and smellier. Golf is pretty boring to watch, too, unless you have an eye for the subtleties of a good shot or an appreciation for the difficulty of a particular putt.
If you're watching mostly the track and seeing the cars go 'round to the left, you're going to be bored as hell. If you focus on an individual driver, and watch how he catches a draft off of a passing rival, and you understand that drafting will make both cars go faster (though the guy in front is at full throttle and the guy in back only half), the dynamics of the race become more interesting. In fact, I find the most entertaining part of the race to be how drivers play with the airstream (well, except for the crashes, of course).
I'm not a fan of Nascar by any stretch of the imagination and will never go out of my way to catch a race. If people are watching one where I am, though, I don't have to play the elitist asshole anymore because I understand that the game has some merits.
I agree that F1 is more interesting. Autocross not so much. And don't even get me started on drag racing.
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To be fair,NASCAR does run a few road courses and a lot of the teams actually hire a GT driver to turn the wheel in both direction.
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it's much more complicated than NASCAR, NASCAR just turns LEFT!
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And suddenly from behind me,
this guy stood up and said
"Ehhh... hold my Leine"
And said "Doncha know,
that's a rocket ya know"
FYI: Brett Favre doesn't throw bad passes, its just his arthritis.
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Rednecks racing rocket's 'round a ringed raceway! Radically refreshing!
The crashes are going to kick ass!
this reminds me of something... (Score:5, Funny)
"Now *that's* what I call *pod-racing*!"
Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!
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"Now *that's* what I call *pod-racing*!"
Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!
Fine, we'll hold it in Iraq next year.
Re:this reminds me of something... (Score:5, Funny)
Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!
So you're saying they need a tribe of people with language of unintelligible guttural noises that are both heavily armed and perpetually dressed in baggy, concealing clothing? Sounds like Wisconsin to me.
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Just because we call them bubblers, hunt deer, and only have two long seasons doesn't mean you can call us Sand People.
Cheese People? That's just fine though. Mmmm...
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Wisconsin is one of the only states left without concealed carry. So it is generally accepted the people in Wisconsin are not heavily armed.
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They may not have concealed carry, but I don't think there are Buddhists lining up around the block to be reincarnated* as a deer living in the Wisconsin dells. They may not have concealed weapons, but they've got plenty of long guns.
*should your particular flavor of Buddhism acknowledge reincarnation in the first place.
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I take offense to that der comment hey!
X-Prize? (Score:2, Insightful)
Depends on how this works (Score:5, Interesting)
Rocket racing really needs to take the same road as the old-style European racing leagues, perhaps even taking that kind of idealistic "it's not the winning that counts" attitude even further. Anyone can make a fast rocket, but does it have style? Is it fast out of brute-force or because the design is the coolest hack ever? Award points for place, yes, but also for style. Why encourage crap designs and crap driving?
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Wow. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Amazing how they can make giant glowing polygons float in the sky for the planes to fly through.
What's really amazing is your Interesting mod as opposed to Funny. You just sent more people to RTFA than the milf comment last month did.
"Flying glowing polygons!?! Not that's something I just HAVE to see!!!"
Finally. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
a video I can watch because it's not Flash.
That said, these don't look like rockets but are simply jets. Still interesting but not true rocket racing.
If they really wanted to make it interesting, they should have the competitors fly through the canyon they show in the video.
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Re:Finally. . . (Score:5, Informative)
To use the Answers.com definition of a rocket, which is pretty much what I think of when I hear the word rocket:
A reaction engine that contains all the substances necessary for its operation and is not dependent on substances such as atmospheric oxygen, drawn from the surrounding medium, and thus is capable of operating in outer space. Also called rocket motor.
If the engines of these vehicles are drawing in air from their surroundings, they're not using rockets, they're using jet engines.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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I stand corrected. Thank you.
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Well, you stand half corrected.
Rocket engines are a type of jet engine
So while you were wrong that they weren't rockets, you were right in that they were jets. ;)
Re:Finally. . . (Score:5, Informative)
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It's not even really clear what the difference is between a jet and a rocket, or if it even matters.
It sort of looks like in general a jet engine uses air from the atmosphere, and a rocket carries both fuel and oxidizer with it.
Either way, if it goes fast, looks fast and flame comes out the back ... that's what matters.
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Noooooo... If they *really* wanted to make it interesting they would do what that idiot (lovable idiot) did in JackAss 2.
They would put on handles and some steering controls and the "pilots" would have to ride real rockets through the canyon. Now that's a sport!
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That said, these don't look like rockets but are simply jets. Still interesting but not true rocket racing.
Jet racing, rocket racing... Why would I care about the difference? "Oh this is lame, these things aren't even carrying their own oxidizer!"
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Because when they crash the ones carrying oxidizer are going to blow up MUCH more impressively.
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Nope they are true rockets burning Liquid Oxygen and Alcohol.
They do use jet propulsion but all rockets do. They just don't use turbojets or turbofans.
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The engines are supplied by Armadillo Aerospace.
John Carmack posted news about the deal a while back: http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=358 [armadilloaerospace.com]
Finally... the Flying Cars we were promised (Score:2)
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Have you tried quicktime alternative or are you boycotting the entire format?
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Video LAN Client. [videolan.org] Seriously, there's no reason to load up an Apple product no matter what platform you're on (apart from Apple, of course.)
EAA Fly-in (Score:2)
I was on the fence about whether to go to the EAA fly-in this year. When I had heard of the RRL race, I immediately notified my boss of the upcoming vacation day. That was a month ago. =)
It was only a matter of time (Score:5, Funny)
.... before Wile E Coyote (Super Genius) merged with NASCAR.
I predict similar spectacular failures to occur, and I think I will enjoy it just as much as I used to do when I was five years old :)
If it's NASCAR but 1000m off the ground... (Score:4, Funny)
Just like NASCAR... (Score:2)
Fuel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Uhhh... does anyone care about the massive waste of rocket fuel that this is? I mean, that's the number one reason I hate NASCAR. It's just downright wasteful. We could be using that gas, instead of burning it to drive in a circle 500 times.
This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.
Re:Fuel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Uhhh... does anyone care about the massive waste of rocket fuel that this is? I mean, that's the number one reason I hate NASCAR. It's just downright wasteful. We could be using that gas, instead of burning it to drive in a circle 500 times.
This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.
What do you figure the energy costs are to to run an indoor football/soccer/basketball stadium? Or an NHL hockey rink? remember, these all have to be maintained 24x7.
Not to mention all the fuel used flying all those people back and forth across the globe just so they can kick a ball around or hit a puck with a stick?
At least there is some technology feedback from auto racing back into 'real cars'.
What would be the return on investment in the energy cost of hockey? baseball? football?
How confident are you that NASCAR is actually the most energy wasteful sport going?
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Except those cars are all carbeurated, and everything on the street today is fuel injected. Makes a HUGE difference when it comes to tweaking for mileage.
If NASCAR engine builders are doing anything to benefit street cars, it's engine durability.
Re:Fuel? (Score:4, Insightful)
This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.
Well said! I completely agree. It's time we move on to a world where it's cool to be efficient and conserve energy rather than blow it out the exhaust pipe as fast as possible.
Re:Fuel? (Score:5, Funny)
I look forward to the day when the US starts importing yogis from India in order to compete in Olympic Energy Conservation.
"Radhakrishnan's got his heart down to 4 beats per minute... 3... but OH! Gupta has tapped the core of his seventh chakra, and he's coming in with 2.. 1... ZERO BEATS PER MINUTE! This is unbelivable - this is the first time ANYONE has achieved complete body stasis in a competition setting! Now, remember folks, according to IOC rules, he has two minutes to re-awaken and establish the validity of the record, or else paramedics will be deployed to the field with a defibrillator..."
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The initial designs use a 1800lb thrust Oxygen/Kerosene (Jet-A) engine
That one has 40 gallons of Jet-A and 10 cu ft of LOX (722) lbs
Just to compare NASCAR uses a 22 gallon tank and a 777 jet liner burns 50 gallons a minute
Then 2nd gen planes are using twin 400lb thrust Oxygen/Alcohol engines.
I couldn't find the fuel specs for the O2/Alcohol engines.
Re:Fuel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Go away, hippie.
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rj
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It depends on your personal opinion of what 'useful' is. I would think that the best use for a commodity would be the use that produced the greatest economic gain. So in my utilitarian view of gasoline consumption, the racer that uses 500 gallons of gas to earn $500,000 is more efficient than 10 people using 50 gallons of gas to make $10,000-$20,000. The racer created wealth out of gas and spectacle. This is not a zero-sum game. Racing increases our gdp more than office work.
An idealistic viewpoint like you
Tiny Dangerous Jets (Score:2)
I wonder how closely the actual racing will resemble the video renders. Because while the video renders look awesome, they seem a bit fantastical.
Either way, here's a less likely to be slashdotted video mirror [vimeo.com].
If this is rocket racing why do I see a propellor? (Score:3, Interesting)
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The US Navy's (old?) electronic warfare (EA-6 Prowler), could carry additional jamming pods, each one which was powered by their own little propeller.
One word: smoke (Score:3, Interesting)
The trailer looks cool, but there are tons of problems. This isn't going to look anywhere nearly as exciting in reality.
First of all, they expect people to go there to watch the action on huge TVs? WTF? Why do that when you can stay at home and see it on TV? This is essentially a virtual sport, there's hardly anything to see in the real world (other than the take-off and the unavoidable fly-by).
But the reason this isn't going to be anywhere near what the video shows is safety. These planes will have to keep a significant safety distance so they don't crash into each other. So no high-powered chases or planes flying through overlapping polygons. The other planes will only be tiny specks somewhere in the distance.
Also, do you know how far the safety distance is behind a commercial plane? That's miles of airspace that can't be used due to turbulence in the plane's wake. Now imagine what the wake of a rocket plane is like!
And finally, one word: smoke! These engines don't burn nearly as clean as the nice CGI suggests, ever seen a Shuttle launch? There will be tons of smoke, making it hard to see much, and increasing the safety distances even further.
So apart from this being a hugely wasteful kind of sport (undoubtedly the most wasteful ever), it's also going to be boring as hell. Call me a nay-sayer, but I can't see this take off (no pun intended, haha).
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And finally, one word: smoke! These engines don't burn nearly as clean as the nice CGI suggests, ever seen a Shuttle launch? There will be tons of smoke, making it hard to see much, and increasing the safety distances even further.
Funny I don't see any smoke in the pics of the real thing running..
http://www.xcor.com/products/engines/4A3_LOX_alcohol_rocket_engine.html [xcor.com]
The rocket planes run on LOX and Alcohol..
Do you know what the shuttle main engiens burn? Hydrogen and Oxygen.. Hmm what does that make?? Oh ye
Re:One word: smoke (Score:4, Interesting)
Three words: Reno Air Races. Hotrodded WW2 fighters and some jets, 500+ mph, 10-mile course with the front straight a few hundred yards from the bleachers.
Also, do you know how far the safety distance is behind a commercial plane? That's miles of airspace that can't be used due to turbulence in the plane's wake. Now imagine what the wake of a rocket plane is like!
You mean like this? http://www.airrace.org/2007ncargallery.php [airrace.org] Wake turbulence depends almost entirely on weight, not airspeed.
hugely wasteful kind of sport
You're talking about a sport where a few dozen airplanes perform in front of fifty thousand people who got there in cars, right?
rj
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Smoke won't be a problem for these rockets. The engines are no where near the size of the ones on the shuttle and they use different propellants. As a matter of fact there are plans to add some dyes to the fuel so that the rockets each have different color plumes to make them easier to distinguish from each other in the air.
A couple of links for you:
http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2008_04_14/seededPlume.jpg [armadilloaerospace.com] http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2008_05_12/greenPlume.jpg [armadilloaerospace.com]
Also, the size of the tur
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"Also, do you know how far the safety distance is behind a commercial plane? That's miles of airspace that can't be used due to turbulence in the plane's wake. Now imagine what the wake of a rocket plane is like!"
Actually, what's interesting about a "plane's wake" turbulence is that it is a function of speed and weight. These planes are very small and light, so their wake will also be very small. The only thing another plane would feel is a minor bump or "air pocket."
When a commerical jet is landing, it is slow and heavy, which produces very large wingtip vorticies. That is when we will hear the warning from ATC, "Caution, Wake Turbulence." The normal landing procedure behind an airliner is to land beyond w
Racers look like the Swordfish from Cowboy Bebop (Score:2)
Looking at the videos, does anyone notice the racers resemble the Swordfish II from Cowboy Bebop? (Follow the link below if you don't know wtf i'm talking about)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/PetarB/Sideup.jpg [photobucket.com]
Maybe it's not a 100% match, but it's sort of interesting how the designers of Bebop knew that a rocket propelled plane would have to have a mid cantelliver wing design, with the wings being mounted to the rear of the craft with little to no delta sweeping.
why NASCAR for comparison? (Score:2)
NASCAR is 50/60's tech pushrod/carburetor muscle car racing on ovals.
As for using it in the comparison, seems like you would want to use a more modern racing series with cooler tech.
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furrowing their brows in a vane attempt to understand how men dare defy the laws imposed by God!
We have been watching Farve do it for years!
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There are glacier formed gorges aplenty in Wisconsin, but not really near Oshkosh. But EAA has been there for a long, long time and Air Venture is the largest airshow in the world. More airplane enthusiasts there during the event than any other time.
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The shuttle is more glider than rocket.
Also, these people don't seem to have had a single race yet. Their promo video appears to be footage from a video game. (Well, that and Star Wars clips.)
Perhaps it's a bit premature for NASA to look to them for guidance ...
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They're using children as fuel? What a brilliant way out of our present oil crisis!
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1. Wikipedia says they use kerosene/liquid oxygen rockets.
2. Pit stops. Land, get more fuel/O2, and get back in the blue. The races are planned to be about an hour long.
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They only carry 40 gallons of Kero or Alcohol and 700lbs of LOX..
Average fuel cost for a race is $1000 or so.. Thats for Kero, LOX and Liquid Nitrogen to pressurise the fuel tank.
You'll spend more just getting the plane to the race.