Surgical Robot Removes Calgary Woman's Brain Tumor

Raver32 points out an article in the Victoria Times Colonist about an interesting advance in robotic surgery: "Calgary doctors have made surgical history, using a robot to remove a brain tumor from a 21-year-old woman. Doctors used remote controls and an imaging screen, similar to a video game, to guide the two-armed robot through Paige Nickason's brain during the nine-hour surgery Monday. Surgical instruments acting as the hands of the robot — called NeuroArm — provided surgeons with the tools needed to successfully remove the egg-shaped tumor."

This wasn't there first attempt...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's just say the zombie brain surgeon didn't work out as well.

Re:

[fractoid]

I hear they've had ninjas doing it for years but you never see it in the news because... they're ninjas. Duh.

Regardless, it's not a robot, it's a remote controlled McStabbyThing with a camera on it. Still cool though.

Re:This wasn't there first attempt...

[Anonymous Coward]

My RSS feed in Firefox only goes as far as 'Surgical Robot Removes Calgary Woman's Brain'. I thought the revolution had come.

More Info.

[Overkill Nbuta]

You can find some more info on this at.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/may2008/neuroArm [ucalgary.ca]
I think it will be interesting if a doctor can have less fatigue and sit in a chair and do operations more quickly and more precisely with this.

I understand that there are some operations where you would want the doctor to be on site to help with complications. But some of them like removing a brain tumor where its a procedure that you just need to cut something out it might be able to help the limited supply of doctors in the world be better utilized.

Re:More Info.

[LordVader717]

They've got a website [neuroarm.org] for the Neuroarm complete with video clip and pics.

Easy. Just cutting something out...of the brain.

[Anonymous Coward]

But some of them like removing a brain tumor where its a procedure that you just need to cut something out...

Yeah, it's not brain surgery. I mean.. it's not rocket science.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe someone referring to BRAIN SURGERY as "a procedure that you just need to cut something out." And also stating that there are "some operations where you would want the doctor to be one site to help with complications" but acting like that would NOT be the case with a brain surgery!!! I just had brain surgery in March. It was VERY complicated and could have been fatal. There is NO WAY I would have allowed a robot to perform it. If that was the only case, I would expect the SAME amount of

Re:

[KGIII]

I've been trying to sign up, also. But after three different times, I will have to have my password mailed to me, so this is unfortunately being posted as "Anonymous Coward."

So that didn't work then? *grins* (I couldn't resist.) Welcome to /. now go check your spam filters/boxes.

Re:

[mikael]

Researchers did a study on primitive surgical techniques. They found out that the caves used for these operations were as far back as possible, meaning that the air was dry and had no dust. Also, whenever a flintstone was used as a cutting instrument, a brand new stone was split, so there was no bacteria on the surfaces of the stone.

Ancient Brain Surgery [scientificblogging.com]

I need trepanning like a hole in the head.

More to the point...

[jd]

...there may be some categories of "inoperable" brain tumours that are inoperable because humans have too low a level of precision. Such tumours would be removable by such a method. There have been many advances in tele-surgery since early work in the early 1990s (Surgeons in Russia operated on patients in America, for example) but this is definitely a lot further forward than might have been expected from the pioneering efforts.

Re:

[nospam007]

There have been many advances in tele-surgery since early work in the early 1990s (Surgeons in Russia operated on patients in America, for example)...

It's to allow surgeons to operate from home, to save gas and scrubs and they also don't need to wash their hands.

Re:

[ceoyoyo]

That's one of the ideas. When I was involved with the project the robot was also designed to be MRI compatible, so it could do image guided biopsies in the bore of the magnet. Calgary is also the site of the first 1.5T mobile intraoperative MRI (developed by this same surgeon). It can also scale down a surgeon's movements and cancel out any tremor.

They've also proposed to develop molecular probes that the robot can use to chemically feel out which tissue is likely to be tumor and which is not.

Re:More Info.

[August_zero]

I have done a surgical rotation at a facility that uses a DaVinci robot to conduct some of its gynecological/urological procedures. The surgeon still has to work at it, and for those not familiar with the system, the surgeries can take 3 times longer and are more arduous than doing it the old fashioned way. In the hands of a practiced surgeon though, it's really a sight to behold in action, almost like a giant metal spider clipping and cutting.

Re:

[Hotawa Hawk-eye]

Also keep in mind that the doctor can simulate the surgery using the patient's own data and use that simulation to program the robot to perform the operation ahead of time. If the program fails the simulation, the doctor can tweak the program until it performs exactly as he or she wants. At that point, the doctor's responsibility during the actual operation is to monitor the program to make sure it's performing exactly as it did during the simulation and that nothing goes wrong. Even if something does go

Re:

[ceoyoyo]

You're right about less fatigue, but not more quickly. The robot lets the surgeon scale down his movements to operate more finely though, so there is a payoff.

Re:

[recharged95]

I like the picture they use: "In fact, it is rocket science."

Hence I guess it's trivial technology. We already know how to fly to Mars... Trival. Really!

I thought building it would be more like Astrophysics.

did they tell her?

[electrosoccertux]

I wonder if they tell you before you go in that they won't be doing it by hand themselves...

At the end of the day, hopefully this means cheap healthcare.

Re:did they tell her?

[peipas]

I dig. If I accidentally bought a bottle of wine whose grapes were mechanically squeezed I'd still rather assume a half dozen feet did the job.

Re:did they tell her?

[sodul]

I remember a video on the french news (maybe 15 years ago) about wine making: there was a guy *totally* naked (it's french TV it was not censored) jumping into the grapes to squeeze them. I don't know if the idea was to not get his underwear stained or if the 'all natural' method.

Needless to say I'm a beer drinker (belgian beers).

Re:

[Kavorkian_scarf]

I would prefer safer procedures with a higher probability of success rather than cheap. Then again i don't pay for health care.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you do. In taxes.

Remember, there is no such thing as "Free health care" or "Free education". Thinking like that leads to arguments like "Well, it's not that good but I can't complain as it's free.". You are paying for it every time you pay taxes.

This naturally assuming you aren't circumventing your taxes some way or are posting from prison where you don't pay taxes but get health care or something like that. ;)

Re:

[Kavorkian_scarf]

You need to pay for health insurance in Alberta, and my health care is subsidized, so i do not in fact, pay for my health care.

Re:

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Believe so, at least that's the most economical interpretation of

"It was scary at first," said Nickason of the idea of being operated on by a robot.

"But I really trust my doctors and know they would keep me safe."

from the article.

Re:

[value_added]

At the end of the day, hopefully this means cheap healthcare.

Do you mean "have the effect of lowering healthcare costs in Canada", or "the use of robots will make the concept of universal healthcare appealing to citizens of the United States and South Africa"?

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

Damn

[Strange Ranger]

I'd like to see QA on that software.

Re:

[MichaelSmith]

I used to think that before I started to work on ATC software. Now I prefer not to know.

Oblig.

[esrobinson]

I, for one, welcome our new brain surgeon robot overlords.

Re:

[santiam]

I didn't see the complete title at first. I read: " Surgical Robot Removes Calgary Woman's Brain." I couldn't figure out why she would want that to happen.

Re:

[mikael]

When my step-father was in hospital from a amoebic infection of the blood stream, he once called home, still a bit woozy and told us, "The doctors have removed my brain, they told me I don't need it any more". The doctor went on the line and explained he meant drain.

Re:Oblig.

[pcgabe]

No! No! We must fight them! Brain surgeon robot overlords? Are you MAD? They could... they could re-program our VERY MINDS!

This is TOO FAR! We =must= take a stand! This far, no further!

In fact, I'm going to go give these overlords a piece of my mind in person! BRB

Re:Oblig.

[pcgabe]

DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS.

I, too, WELCOME our BRAIN-surgeon ROBOT overlords.

All GLORY to THE brain-SURGEON robot OVERLORDS!

Re:

[jamesh]

Not bad, references to qdb [bash.org], the simpsons [wikipedia.org], and futurama [wikipedia.org].

Victoria Times Colonist

[Anonymous Coward]

Colonist, now theres an interesting line of work....

It's Not a Robot

[juancnuno]

This is great and all, but I feel the term "robot" is overly misused. To me, robot implies a computerized autonomy. If the doctor controlled the thing, then to me that's no robot.

... It's a Waldo

[Fallen Andy]

Annoys me as well, but many "industrial robots" are really remote manipulators. I always remember the first one I saw at Rolls Royce Aerospace (Bristol UK) (early 80's). So darn dangerous it had it's own room . Needed it too - they were cutting turbine blades. One oops, and it's hypersonic ninja dices and slices time... See here [wikipedia.org]

(I just noticed the Waldo story reference has something which prefigures Feynmann's "Plenty of Room at the Bottom" . Wonder if he got that idea from Heinlein?

Andy

Im a doctor not a video gamer!

[Aranykai]

And while on the subject, why do they insist on likening anything with a display and controls to playing a video game? Its not an Atari, its a complex medical machine.

Re:

[JAppi]

by the same logic you could say that photoshop and Microsoft Office were video games.

Re:

[ceoyoyo]

Actually, they did at least one study where they looked at video gamer performance using Neuroarm (the poster is hanging just out the door in the hallway).

I can't remember the details offhand, but IIRC they tested gamers, experienced surgeons and trainees on a simulated surgery. The gamers did very well.

Re:

[Kelbear]

Yes, but who wants post-op teabagging?

Because video games help with this.

[Dire Bonobo]

why do they insist on likening anything with a display and controls to playing a video game?

Perhaps because playing video games has been found [msn.com] to [shortnews.com] help [engadget.com] surgeons [wired.com] perform surgery better.

Re:

[Enleth]

Well, that depends on the level of autonomy this device has. Maybe it's just a manipulator that turns the movements of a joystick directly into the movements of a scalpel or something, but it could as well receive orders like "cut this piece of tissue" and proceed by itself with exact, self-calculated movements of the blade. I'd say this counts as a form of a robot.

Re:

[ceoyoyo]

It has that capability, but it's not being used that way yet. The plan was to be able to record movements and replay them. Like "suture that vessel."

Re:

[SeaFox]

If the doctor controlled the thing, then to me that's no robot.

Yeah! it's a space-age station for Oncology! And the doctor shoots first.

Agreed

[Tonyrockyhorror]

In other news, Typewriter Writes Novel

Which has more advantages?

[Valthezeh]

They were pretty sketchy about this issue of whether a robot is "better" than a human doctor. They emphasized the robot's advantages, but then go on to say that humans have "more dexterity" which to me implies that it is still safer to have a human perform the operation. I'm pretty curious as to how much information this woman was given before the surgery - she seems very trusting of her doctors, and I hope they didn't take advantage of that to turn her into an experiment.

Re:

[timmarhy]

you do realise somewhere along the line someone has to be the experimental patient, right?

Re:

[Valthezeh]

You do realize even experimental patients should know what they're getting into, right?

Re:

[somersault]

More dexterity but probably less stability and more chance of being nervous, or getting pumped up on adrenaline and shaking? That kind of thing.

Bacon?

[master5o1]

Did the robot lick the brain and think it was a pig?

Oh wait. The operation was successful. If it thought the patient was bacon then it would use more vet techniques.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[kkazakov]

But if you're in the US, you might never get to this, or it would cost something you cannot afford. You should not make jokes with this story. I'm pretty sure she doesn't find it funny.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re: waiting lists

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, waiting lists for surgery are as long in the USA as they are in Canada [businessweek.com].

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

So? I'm an American and I had to wait even longer to see a dermatologist a few years back about a problem I had. What's your point, that we get to pay more for the same stuff?

Re:

[ceoyoyo]

There are no waiting lists for time-sensitive surgery. You get it when you need it.

Waiting lists are for elective procedures, like getting your hip replaced. Sure, it would be NICE to have a new hip in time for golf season, but missing a few tee times won't kill you.

Re:

[Jerry Rivers]

While I appreciate your humor, I hasten to point that NOTHING is ever free when it comes to health care. Even in Canada. In Alberta, families pay premiums, which for a family can be anywhere from one to two thousand a year. Though I believe those over 65 are exempt. A similar scheme exists in British Columbia. In Ontario, I believe employers pay all health care premiums.

The point is that health care is NOT free in Canada. This is a popular misconception (or lie as some would argue) perpetuated by some

Re:

[b0bby]

One to two thousand a year for a family sounds like a bargain to me. Even if you're paying with that strong Canadian dollar! It pains me to think what I'm paying...

ok so it removed the brain tumor...

[the brown guy]

But did how friendly [slashdot.org] was the robot?

Sick bunny

[DarkWicked]

provided surgeons with the tools needed to successfully remove the egg-shaped tumour.

That's one SICK easter bunny they have over there.

...Robot?

[Ethan Allison]

How is this any more of a robot than construction equipment? They're both "this joystick controls how this part of the machine moves"

Re:

[glueball]

Soon we can be on a honda assembly line


The Soviets did this for eye surgery decades ago. They would have patients on a carousel with surgeons each applying one step of the surgery. Then the entire patient carousel would shift with the next surgeons applying their one step to the next patient.

This is great

[melted]

Just think how much of a boon this is for microsurgeons - folks who stitch together nerves, small blood vessels, etc. Hand tremor and even its inherent precision is no longer an issue. Plus, you can have more than two "hands". This will only get better, and eventually we'll probably see minor surgeries performed without any human intervention.

Re:

[dbcad7]

But there was human intervention in this case.. a human was operating the controls of the robot arm.

Not putting it down.. much nicer to tell the arm to start a cut at point A and a specific depth and end at point B.. I had some repair work done on my knee, and I have an extremely long scar.. did he start at the wrong place and just keep going till he found what he was looking for ?? don't really know, and better I don't think about it too much...

As I have done some CAD/CAM work before this is interestin

Re:

[simplerThanPossible]

It's a boon for microsurgery. But is it for microsurgeons, if their special talents become valued less?

Next thing, it will be offshored - then automated. That is, unless the "surgeon unions" have something to say about it...

Re:

[melted]

It's a boon for both. Microsurgeons will make fewer mistakes and be able to perform more complex operations.

Re:

[simplerThanPossible]

Could be. It depends on if they can absorb fewer mistakes and greater complexity.

That is, they currently are making significant mistakes, and that there are more complex operations that they'd like to do but currently cannot.

Those assumptions sound reasonable to me.

Re:

[BlueHands]

Just think how much of a boon this is for microsurgeons - folks who stitch together nerves, small blood vessels, etc. Hand tremor and even its inherent precision is no longer an issue. Plus, you can have more than two "hands". This will only get better, and eventually we'll probably see minor surgeries performed without any human intervention.

Is there really any doubt that as time moves forward minor, and then major, surgeries are going to be more automated all the time?

The interesting question for me is not if but how fast this happens. It seems likely that in just 15 years, 30 at the insanely litigious most, you could have one talented surgeon overseeing 5 major surgeries at the same time, acting as an exec over the computers/robots/whatever that are in fact performing all of the major work themselves.

I mention litigious above because that is

See?

[Godji]

Doctors used remote controls and an imaging screen, similar to a video game, to guide the two-armed robot through Paige Nickason's brain

See, Jack Thompson was right all along. COMPUTER GAMES CAN MESS WITH YOUR BRAIN!!!

(The captcha for this post happens to be "lawful". COINCIDENCE?! I think not!)

Oops.

[vaccum pony]

My RSS list cut off the last word from the title.

Our robot overlords

[Ambitwistor]

My RSS list cut off the last word from the title.

Mine too. I thought the robot uprising [amazon.com] had finally begun!

Similar to a video game?

[Extremus]

"GAME OVER! You killed the patient! Press START to continue."

Re:

[Sentry21]

'Your time has expired. Please insert $0.25 to continue.'

VNS files - How do you view them?

[myspace-cn]

X-ray.vns How can you view such a file.
(they come from dentist office x-rays)

the header looks like this:

00000000 4C 45 41 44 00 00 20 64 00 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 LEADÂÂ dÂdÂÂÂÂÂÂ

Is it a DICOM file? Digital Imaging Communications?
By the way -- Iclone didn't open it.

Video games for Doctors

[lewko]

Doctors used remote controls and an imaging screen, similar to a video game

Doctor: Dammnit nurse! Guide me over to the Health bonus

Nurse: There's no time Doctor! We're losing the patient.

Doctor: Okay. We have to cheat death. Press up-up-left-left-up-up-down-select.

Nurse: It's working! The patient has full health!

Doctor: Tumour P3wnd!

Re:

[JoCat]

Nurse: "P3wned? Doctor, I believe you mean Pwn3d"

Doctor: "Damnit Nurse, I'm a doctor not a script kiddie."

Nurse: "^&*(^#$&*(^^&*(Y&*(#@T&*C(TYC&*#(Y@&#(^AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

Doctor: "root@localhost"

"surgical"

[Hasmanean]

The first time I scanned the headline...I thought it said "robot removes Calgary woman's brain."

Re:

[fathom108]

Me too. Live Bookmarks surgically removed the Tumor from the RSS title.

Unfortunate title clipping

[AC-x]

My RSS reader just printed this story as "Surgical Robot Removes Calgary Woman's Brain ..."

Typical, summary doesn't explain story propertly..

[dogdick]

Doctors used remote controls and an imaging screen, similar to a video game, to guide the two-armed robot through Paige Nickason's brain during the nine-hour surgery Monday

Immediately afterwards the doctors ran outside, carjacked an old lady, jumped a ramp and fired an uzi into crowds.

It's not a robot, it's a waldo

[cellocgw]

What, you guys don't read Heinlein?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldo_(short_story) [wikipedia.org]

BTW, I read somewhere (and naturally forgot all about it until now) that one of the features being implemented in surgical waldoes is a low-pass filter, which removes any tremor or shaking in the surgeon's hand from the final instrument's movement. Sounds like a win to me.

Wrong section

[cavebison]

Why is this story featured in the Times Colonist?
That's a completely different area of medicine.