NASA Planning Mission To 40-Meter-Wide Asteroid 205
FudRucker points out a story from The Guardian about NASA's plans to visit 2000SG344, an asteroid 40 meters wide and weighing roughly 71 million kilograms. The manned mission would take three to six months, and it would make use of the Orion spacecraft, which will be replacing to retiring space shuttle fleet.
"A report seen by the Guardian notes that by sending astronauts on a three-month journey to the hurtling asteroid, scientists believe they would learn more about the psychological effects of long-term missions and the risks of working in deep space, and it would allow astronauts to test kits to convert subsurface ice into drinking water, breathable oxygen and even hydrogen to top up rocket fuel. All of which would be invaluable before embarking on a two-year expedition to Mars. As well as giving space officials a taste of more complex missions, samples taken from the rock could help scientists understand more about the birth of the solar system and how best to defend against asteroids that veer into Earth's path."
Planned mission != actual mission (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not to mention (Score:5, Funny)
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Quit being naive, people. You can't just always send balding actors.
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Don't be silly. Patrick Stewart would always be enough.
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Re:Planned mission != actual mission (Score:5, Interesting)
This is proposed back in 1990, and was deemed to be a viable plan for going forward with technology we had at that time. As with all missions, we don't know the SPECIFICS (as in, we don't have blueprints of the craft to take us), but if we had those we'd probably already be on the way there now. There are enough sound plans out there that I'm sure if funding were approved for the mission, we'd be able to do it. The problem though, is not in solving problems, getting a clear roadmap, or whatnot. The problem is in getting the government to simply lay down the funding so we can go.
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That nasa is even asking for plans made my whole day. Sam Gunn would be proud.
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Plus, you don't have to worry about that pesky gravity stuff.
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*crosses fingers* (Score:2)
Perhaps they could shave off some of that 3 Million slated for NASA MMO [slashdot.org] and slosh it towards this. Lets face it, a 3 Million dollar game would look like a uni science project, but it might get put to some sort of use here at least.
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Are you saying that a group of 5-10 university students, working for a semester, maybe a year, should be paid a total of 3 million dollars? That's at least some $300k each, for those not keeping track.
Or are you saying that a group of 5-10 university students, working for a semester or a year, would outperform the kind of development you could actually hire for 3 million?
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This is a NASA run manned space mission. $3 million might stretch to the toilet paper, with maybe enough left over to buy a holder for it.
Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:5, Interesting)
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But what I would really like is for someone to work out roughly how much energy this would take.
More or less than all nukes on earth, for example?
Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's got 1.37 km/s hyperbolic excess velocity, and on an orbit that damn near intersects ours. That means it takes a little more than 1370 m/s of delta-v to perform the capture. At 7.1E7 kg, that's about 6.6E13 joules -- approximately 15kt TNT equivalent worth of energy.
Assuming a high performance LOX/Methane engine, it would need about 34kt of propellant (rockets are inefficient for delta-v low relative to exhaust velocity). Note that this is a significant proportion of the asteroid mass. To make it economical, you'd need something more exotic -- a mass drive throwing bits of asteroid, or a high performance solar-electric ion drive, for example.
Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:5, Informative)
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There are obvious concerns:
A) Tides
B) Changes to the orbits of the Earth and Moon1
C) Possible climate change due to the Moon2's shadow, etc
Then there are the more mysterious:
A) Does the full moon impact human behavior? If so, what would two such moons do? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect)
B) Is it mere coincidence that lunar cycles and o
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Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:5, Informative)
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Make that 40 meters You probably wouldn't be able to see it without a telescope. Hell, I think ISS is bigger than that.
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Remember, explosives aren't really all that expensive, but mechanisms for doing it controlably (like in a rocket engine) are very costly. Nukes are f
unless USA starts using asteroids as nukes (Score:2)
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As far as ease of extraction of oxygen, hydrogen, etc. It is far, far, far easier to simply melt/boil the frozen gas, than to unbind the oxygen from the silicon in the rocks. Granted, extracting iron from a comet may be next to impossible, but the fact of the matt
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That's because spacecraft hulls currently have to be hauled out of a steep gravity well, and mass costs money. So they use flimsy, lightweight materials. If the stuff is already up there and need only be refined, then you could use whatever you wanted. For structural components, I'd take steel over aluminum any day of the week, thank you very much.
But yes, definitely need a comet with light elements a
Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:4, Interesting)
The energy of any possible collision with Earth is "1.1 million tons of TNT", which is about 4.6 petajoules. I expect the energy required to pull it into orbit would be in that order of magnitude, as you'd basically be trying to slow the thing down as it got near us.
I'm not sure how you many nukes it would take to apply that much kinetic energy to an object in space, but the biggest nukes can release in the order of 2 petajoules of heat.
I'm not sure that I'd want an object that size -- without any means of correcting its orbit -- hovering over my house though.
Re:Land, schmand. Pull it into orbit! (Score:4, Insightful)
Somehow, I'm not that bothered by it -- how much does the moon weigh? It's often over your house, right?
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Which is exactly why I could see some people pushing for it. We'd just have to make sure that when an "Industrial Accident [wikipedia.org]" happened, breaking it up, the debris fell on [wikipedia.org] OTHER [wikipedia.org] countries. [wikipedia.org]
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Then each time it comes round, regular trips from the Earth could stock it with food, water and air, as well as building long-term habitation. It would then become a 'Mars Bus', able to shift lots of material, as well as all the Mars tourists/colonists who will want to go.
And I haven't even patented this concept. Perhaps it's because I am from the UK and not American?
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Thank you, I'm here all week.
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"...a lot more interesting and exciting..." indeed.
Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully (Score:5, Funny)
what it's like to go out one side of the screen and come back in the other.
how many kilograms? (Score:2)
However, when writing an article, is it too hard to call it 71,000 tons (or tonnes, or "metric" tons - they're all essentially the same unit - with a percent or two)
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I don't know about you, but I get a little concerned when science reporters get stuff like that wrong.
In truth... (Score:2, Insightful)
Any time I read anything in the press that I personally know about, I dispair at just how far wrong the reporters are.
It's the little things, like an order of magnitude here or there. We say 10,000 they say 100,000 what's a 0 between friends.
So I assume that anything I read is little more than an vague approximation of the truth.
I'm not even getting all tin hat.
Think Hanlon's Razor..
Never attribute to malice that which can be
Finally! (Score:5, Interesting)
Then, when NASA has a huge group of talented experts and tons of cash, they can do real science instead of worrying every day about whether the budget will get slashed before they can complete the current round of experiments.
Re:Finally! (Score:4, Insightful)
No pun intended, it's astronomically different.
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You're right, they shouldn't have sent people to the moon, it was too expensive. Think of all the money they could have saved if they sent a few robots up there.
I'm sure Rosie [wikipedia.org] would have loved to volunteer!
Re:Finally! (Score:5, Interesting)
They could have sent thousands of robots.
We've got two rovers operating on Mars for years for a fraction of the price it costs to send one human to the IIS in low Earth orbit. There's no question the robots get you more science for your buck, all the humans cling to is that they are better PR, but I wonder if that's true anymore? Here's a test: Without looking it up, think of the names of those rovers on Mars. Now think of the names of the current ISS inhabitants. You're paying hundreds of times as much for every day the ISS inhabitant is there.
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Just being in orbit isn't cool anymore. That's why missions like the one in this story are important.
There's no question the robots get you more science for your buck
The problem is that if you don't have enough bucks, you can't do much science. Manned missions, on the other hand, get you more buck for your buck.
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Wrong Orion (Score:4, Interesting)
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Project Orion is a pretty incredible concept, and I think the odds are good that something like it will get built eventually if high-tech civilisation doesn't collapse first. (Nuclear thermal rocketry [wikipedia.org] is another idea that perhaps deserves revisiting.)
However: using either of these drives as a means of getting off the Earth's surface is utter madness. The last thing we need is more unshielded bare-atmosphere nuclear detonations. I'm no anti-nuclear activist, but there's a hel
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What about the War? (Score:5, Funny)
I mean if NASA goes on spending recklessly on such projects, who is going to feed the poor kids in Iraq, and not to mention upcoming Iran, Syria and N.Korea (although in this case it would be radioactive S.Korean kids).
NASA is just literally throwing money away to send 2 girls and 1 man away for tax-payer-funded jaunts to the ultimate holiday-spot: Asteriod!
I say we snatch NASA's budgets and feed it to Cheney; er sorry, Halliburton so that they could prosecute this devastating War to its conclusion.
Of all the daring, reckless things NASA can do, this rates the 3rd worst: The first was the Hubble-Schubble telescope thingy that NASA claims can take photos 130 million light-years away, but can't take photos of my Pet Cat! I mean who wants to look into the past 130 million years ago? Didn't God say he created Earth 6,000 years ago?
Secondly they sent TWO stupid rovers to Mars and cheer loudly when their rovers cross 6 mph speed. I mean, come on. My Hummer easily tops at 112 mph on a Texas village road! Who the hell needs photos from Mars, when the money can be spent to 'assist' JP Morgan and Citibank so that the poor executives can support their children at harvard? Plus Mars has no oil or CNG. Atleast Venus and Europa have oil.
Thirdly now this stupid honeymoon jaunt for 3 months!!!
Re:What about the War? (Score:4, Interesting)
Asteroid visits are a wonderful step towards the industrial use of space, far more effective and useful than a Mars mission. Do the Mars mission after we have a working space station that can build things, and a reliable supply line to it.
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NASA has some wonderful ideas and good planning. Unfortunately they miss the funding.
I bet EU does it or even China will do it for prestige.
Our politicians hate spending money on NASA primarily because none of their pet industries where they have interests benefit from it.
Take for instance the rovers's lenses. None of our politicians has any remote interest in any company that makes mirrors and lenses.
So why would they fund?
The trick for NASA is to market itself as benefitting the pol
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Landing... (Score:4, Insightful)
Probably best to go nose first, nose down. Then you'll be able to see it so you don't hit it so hard.
Solar Flare shelter? (Score:4, Interesting)
The idea is reminiscent of an Arthur C. Clarke story about a trip to Icarus.
On a more sinister note, while the delta-V for CAPTURE of this body around earth might be prohibitive using todays technology, what about for IMPACT? Not the U.S. would want to do such an obvious war provoking act but wondering if it could be done with just chemical propellants. Of course it depends on how far in advance you have to alter the course, orbital parameters etc.
Now if we were really good at orbital mechanics we could possibly have it skim the atmosphere to lose some delta-v for capture. Don't think anyone's gonna try that though.
Use it to stop global warming (Score:2)
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obligatory Titan reference (Score:2)
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I wonder ... (Score:3, Interesting)
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If he's like the last three Republican Presidents, he'll cut the taxes and never get around to cutting the spending... until China stops lending.
McCain's tax cuts amount to basically all non defense discretionary spending. So NASA wouldn't fare so well.
Escape velocity (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Paper studies do not a mission make (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Paper studies do not a mission make (Score:5, Interesting)
Their new capsule design is basically Apollo again so the old plans are on the table. An asteroid mission is a stepping stone to missions to the planets. It is shorter, but interesting all the same.
The asteroids are a likely resource for Earth. Planets are only of use to us for colonisation or science. There is no way to export from Mars to Earth for example, but water could be exported from asteroids to the moon.
This is a great idea. I can't wait to watch.
You don't get it... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You don't get it... (Score:5, Funny)
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Once that's dealt with, then we can start the interstellar finger pointing... it's probably just them damn terr'ists anyway, and what better incentive to go to Mars then to invade?
Why bother worrying about a crash? (Score:2)
Lets change the units...
1.1 Million Tons of TNT == 1.1 Megatons
The governments capable of getting to this thing have weapons WELL in excess of that strength on hand. They don't even have to spend hundreds of Millions of Dollars to get to the asteroid, move it (also probably with a nuke) and target it.
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40 meters wide is OK, but saying something weights 71 million kilograms sounds stupid. In countries where the metric system is in use, nobody would say, rather simply use "71 thousand tons"
Although "71 thousand tons" sounds a bit better to me, it still doesn't quite ring true. I prefer "71 kilotons".
That said of course, it's a matter of preference, and the great thing with the metric system is easy conversion.
(as an example of preference: mainland Europeans use "centilitres" a lot for liquid measurement (a standard can of Coke here is 33cl), but in Australia and New Zealand which are use metric, that's quite unheard of. They prefer to give it in millilitres (a typical can of Coke there
71 gigagrams? (Score:2)
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Note: they may want to bring the paint in 2 separate cans.
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However, electrolysis is nice and easy and solar cells are often used in space....
Think BEFORE you type.
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It's just that after 15 billion years, a lot of that has already happened and that's why we have a
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There are only a few reactions that would react with water to release hydrogen. Florine for instance.
However then you have excess Hydrogen and no oxidizer, unless you bring it with you. But you could always use your Flourine with your oxidizer directly and get more energy.
Short of nuclear reactions (fusion) you are not going to be able to get more chemical energy out of water than you put in. Therefore you MUST provide an external energy source and crack water to store it.
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But the one issue is that we are VERY unlikley to find things that react together on an asteroid.
Even in space on a solid object chemical reactions still take place. over the last few billion years any high energy reaction will probably have happened already. Since they are talking about using the water ON the asteroid for power, we won't find lots of sodium or other oxidizer on the same rock.
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So I shouldn't argue with you since we're on the same page -- and there's a whole side-issue here that peopl
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Saying you are using Hydrogen as a power source makes as much sense as saying I am using a rock as a power source.
Put the rock on the ground and watch it power something....you might want to get some food first since it will be a long wait.
Now pick up the rock and throw it at something...say a certain Rakishi and we will watch said rock make chunky salsa...
The rock it
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This asteroid is close to earth so we will assume insulation like earths. Roughly 1500 watts/ meter ^2. Current cells used by NASA operate at about 45% efficiency. Therefore they will produce about 750 watts/ m^2, at 24 hours a day that is 18 KWH per day per M^2. Therefore a 3 month mission each solar cell can produce about 1620 KWH PER M^2.
Finally, remember that you don't need a huge amount of fuel to get moving in the right direction. You can then use gravity to
I say bring it on and let it land 20 miles from me (Score:2)
Put it another way, it is equivalent to a 1.1 Megaton Nuke (with little or no radioactivity)
I believe minimum safe distance for a megaton nuke (WITH radiation) is 20 kilometers...so 20 miles is perfect
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