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Biotech Science

Capsaicin Tested On Surgical Wounds 227

Posted by kdawson from the that-smarts dept.
Ponca City, We Love You writes "Bite a hot pepper, and after the burn your tongue goes numb. The Baltimore Sun reports that Capsaicin, the chemical that gives chili peppers their fire, is being dripped directly into open wounds during highly painful operations, bathing surgically exposed nerves in a high enough dose to numb them for weeks. As a result patients suffer less pain and require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal. 'We wanted to exploit this numbness,' says Dr. Eske Aasvang, a pain specialist who is testing the substance. Capsaicin works by binding to C fibers called TRPV1, the nerve endings responsible for long-lasting aching and throbbing pain. Experiments are under way involving several hundred patients undergoing various surgeries, including knee and hip replacements using an ultra-purified version of Capsaicin to avoid infection. Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn."
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Capsaicin Tested On Surgical Wounds More

Capsaicin Tested On Surgical Wounds

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  • I had this done after my Lasik surgery. Worked well.

  • Jalapenos (Score:5, Funny)

    by Soporific ( 595477 ) on Tuesday October 30, 2007 @11:53PM (#21179731)
    Sometimes after eating Jalapenos it feels like I have a surgical wound the next day!

    ~S

    • Re:Jalapenos (Score:5, Funny)

      by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:13AM (#21179841)
      "Sometimes after eating Jalapenos it feels like I have a surgical wound the next day!"

      That's an effect of the Goatsaicin.

      • Re:Jalapenos (Score:5, Informative)

        by p00pyd00py ( 1174655 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @04:27AM (#21180863)
        If a Jalapeno hurts you then you better not eat a 'hot' pepper. On the Scoville scale a Jalapeno is only about 5000 scoville units. A Cayenne is about 30,000. A Habanero is rougly 350,000. And the new record holder is the Naga Jookla at around 1,000,000. Go eat a Naga and see how you feel afterwards, wimp. :)

        • Re:Jalapenos (Score:4, Informative)

          by NighthawkFoo ( 16928 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @07:25AM (#21181657)
          Naga Jolokia pepper [wikipedia.org]

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Soporific ( 595477 )
          As all hot pepper eaters should know, it's not the heat in the pepper, it's the juice. Habanero's are fine the next day, but the Jalapeno has quite a bit of juice that doesn't seem to go away. :)

          ~S

          • Re:Jalapenos (Score:5, Funny)

            by p00pyd00py ( 1174655 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @09:43AM (#21183007)
            "As all hot pepper eaters should know, it's not the heat in the pepper, it's the juice".

            Actually this is not true. It is the Capsicain Oil that makes a pepper hot and not the 'juice' (which I take it you mean the watery part of a pepper). The saying that 'hurts going in hurts going out' (referring to going poopy) is pretty much true. But if you eat as much pepper extract as I do it hurts when you pee as well. I admit I take it to the extreme. I use Mad Dog 357 Collector's edition sauce with a 650,000 scoville rating at least 2 or 3 days a week (all meals for those days) and often poor WAY too much in it and think to myself..what the fuck did i just do?! However, even after the wonderfull pain I end up adding even more.

            1 lb of hamburger meat
            1.5 packets of Ortega Taco seasoning .5 packet of fajita seasoning
            1 full teaspoon of Mad Dog 357 Collector's edition

            Cook, eat and get ready for some insane heat and one of the most painful tinkles you ever dreamed of. =) Damn I love it HOT!!!

          • Re:Jalapenos (Score:4, Informative)

            by Mister Whirly ( 964219 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @11:06AM (#21184035) Homepage
            Actually, it is the membranes that hold the seeds that contain most of the "heat".

            "Capsaicin (pronounced cap-SAY-iss-in) is a powerful chemical present in hot peppers that irritates certain nerves in the human nose and mouth. It is most highly concentrated in a hot pepper's central membrane, which holds the seeds."
            http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE3DD1E39F93BA35752C1A96F948260 [nytimes.com]

            "The hotter the pepper, the more capsaicin it contains, most of it concentrated in the membrane or rib. Removing both this membrane and the seeds can significantly reduce the overall heat level"
            http://www.sallys-place.com/food/columns/ferray_fiszer/peppers.htm [sallys-place.com]
    • Only that this hole in your body was there before already. You just didn't really think about it.

      Great, first post in a thread and we're already at toilet humor.

    • Hemorrhoid surgery (Score:3, Interesting)

      by goombah99 ( 560566 )
      is what came to mind. Now it's hard to sit down.
    • Jalapenos aren't hot. They're just nicely warm. Try some Thai bird chiles or a scotch bonnet or habanero. Better yet, go to a Thai restaurant and order a spicy dish cooked "Thai hot" (that's a level above just "hot" in case you didn't guess). Yummy.

      I wonder if they had to correct the study for those volunteers who liked hot, spicy food. I know my tolerance for heat goes up the more frquently I have hot food. I could see going in for surgery and have the doctor try this and it doesn't work unless they

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kazymyr ( 190114 )
        I can go to 150000 Scoville before my tears break out. Of course, pure capsaicin is 15 million Scoville... But I can still chew on a chili piquin without dire consequences, which is more than most people I know can. Can't do a habanero though. For regular consumption (no pain involved) I stick to Tien Tsin - at 60000 Scoville they hit the spot like no other pepper.
      • I know you're trying to sound tough, but they use ultra-purified capsaicin. The peppers you're talking about range from 50,000 to 350,000 scoville units. I'm sure the capsaicin they're using is somewhere around 16 million.

        Sidenote: A lot of pepper spray is rated at 2 million, but some tests I've seen rate that down to about 200,000. Of course, it's still a big dose of it in your eye compared to eating it.
      • Of course they're nicely warm - not all of us rate a pepper by how freaking mouth-scorching they are. There are a few people out there whose culinary life does not include trying to get the hottest possible meal. I even met a fellow once who didn't know what a Scoville unit was! Can you believe the rank ignorance?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by SkyDude ( 919251 )

          I even met a fellow once who didn't know what a Scoville unit was! Can you believe the rank ignorance?

          Was it necessary for you to mention this? Now all of /. will know there are some ignorant people posting on here.............

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 3waygeek ( 58990 )
        I always order my chicken basil Thai hot -- it's about the only Thai dish I like, as I'm not a fan of curries. One day the waitress brought me one of the peppers they use in their hottest dishes; they grew them on a small bush they kept just outside the front door. It was a very tiny red thing smaller than a rice grain, and it was the hottest thing I've ever eaten.
      • The resulting effect of the nerves being affected by the pure-cap will still work no matter if you are Thai and have eaten Thai-hot food for your entire life.

        Unless you eat with a gaping wound someplace on your body... But then you are just freaky.

  • Volunteers (Score:3, Funny)

    by calebt3 ( 1098475 ) on Tuesday October 30, 2007 @11:55PM (#21179745)

    Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn.

    But I like the fiery feeling in my cuts, you insensitive clods!

    Or am I the one who is insensitive, now that my nerves are numb?

    • But I like the fiery feeling in my cuts ...

      Yes, but I hate the feeling of being in unanaesthetized burns, you insensitive clod!

    • Re:Volunteers (Score:5, Informative)

      by slickwillie ( 34689 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @02:01AM (#21180305)
      I had a mild case of Poison Oak this past summer. I wasn't getting any relief from the normal treatments, so I poured some Cayenne pepper powder on the rash. It almost immediately relieved the itching and the area felt cool. I think it also sped up the healing. The powder was too messy so I got some capsaicin cream that was intended for arthritis. It worked almost as well.

  • anesthetic prevents horrible pain (Score:4, Informative)

    by wizardforce ( 1005805 ) on Tuesday October 30, 2007 @11:56PM (#21179751) Journal
    they use a mix of anesthetic and the capsaicin so that you'r not in horrible pain. The nerves are over-stimulated in a way, this leads to them being numbed [like after eating too many spicy peppers] and it has already been used as a topical treatment for pain, I think there's even one pain treatment available to the public already based on this.

  • In other news worlds hottest pepper "discovered" (Score:5, Informative)

    by psyclone ( 187154 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:01AM (#21179783)

    The hottest pepper record [kuro5hin.org] has been broken.

    In the Scoville Organoleptic Test, the Bhut Jolokia [wikipedia.org] pepper scores over 1,000,000

    • According to the wikipedia page it's used for cooking, eaten alone, to treat stomach ailments or for relief from summer heat?

      I'm going to presume that eating this one of these suckers fresh causes an almost instant explosive evacuation of the bowel so powerful that you'd be lucky to have any bones left. I guess that would take your mind off the summer or your stomach problems.
      • It's like eating a spoonful of Drano, sure it'll clean you out, but it'll leave you hollow inside.
      • I used it recently when I had a nasty sore throat. You put a teaspoon of chili powder in a cup of lukewarm water and throw it in the back of your throat and gargle with it.

        Probably makes your breath smell like hell but the pain from the blazing heat felt better than the sore throat.

  • Burning thing of fire (Score:5, Informative)

    by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:01AM (#21179785)
    For several years Capsaicin has been used to treat a type of male incontinence. Squirting a bit of it up a catheter apparently is enough to force some of the nerves in the bladder into the right state to stop the muscles being over-relaxed.

  • Anesthesia notes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by neapolitan ( 1100101 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:04AM (#21179801)
    Very interesting. I can say as a doctor I've never seen this used before though, but it reminded me of a few things:

    During surgery the patient is unconscious, and thus feels no pain, but good surgeons recognize that local anesthesia is still necessary. It's a bit counterintuitive, and I remember being puzzled back in medical school that the surgeons would still numb the area before doing any work despite the patient being unresponsive regardless. The thought is that nerves are damaged and there are changes / responses to the painful stimulus that persist despite the individual being unconscious; in a way, you still have neuronal pain signals if you don't give local anesthesia. It also prevents the patient from waking up with pain in the operative site before you can give other types of painkillers.

    Lidocaine (and capsaicin to some degree) would prevent the nerves from ever signaling -- they block the sodium channel that is necessary for nerves to fire. No firing -- no pain, *and* no no neuronal changes, and hopefully no long term pain. Lidocaine wears off after 2 hours or so, while it seems that capsaicin has much longer densitization effects.

    Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience? :)
    • Well, in the movie Under Siege II: Dark Territory, the mercenary leader Penn gets a faceful of the stuff. He then proceeds to take the canister away from the female prisoner ... and use it for breath spray.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dintech ( 998802 )
        in the movie Under Siege II: Dark Territory...

        Ah, yes. Under Siege II, the 'go to' reference for all things scientific. :)

    • Re:Anesthesia notes (Score:5, Informative)

      by Puff of Logic ( 895805 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:30AM (#21179911)

      Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience? :)
      Speaking as an ex-law enforcement officer, I can say that there are numerous reports of frequent fliers (if you get my meaning) being relatively insensitive to the effects of being sprayed. Although I can't cite personal experience with such a phenomenon, that it was included in official training sessions suggests at least a modicum of truth. Rather more anecdotally, I've heard some officers claim that individuals who habitually consume large quantities of spicy foods are also less susceptible to the effects of OC spray, although the blinding/irritation effect seemed unchanged. I'm not sure I give much credence to the latter notion, however.

      cheers.
    • I wonder if this works the opposite way, and with drawbacks.

      Perhaps far from stopping the nerve from signaling, capsaicin deadens the nerve by making it signal so often that it depletes chemicals needed to replenish after each signal. So with capsaicin, you WOULD get the neuronal changes, and possibly worse than before.

      And if it does work by overworking the signaling mechanism (which is NOT passively electrical like a wire), then perhaps using a local will simply prevent the capsaicin from having any effec
      • Of course, I have mod points when this story goes up, but would could I not post on this topic... Anyway, the article summary is painfully wrong (*rimshot*).

        First off, TRPV1 is the name of the receptor (formerly VR1), not the nerve fiber.

        Second, the substance P depletion hypothesis for capsaicin desensitization fails to explain Barry Green's work on stimulus induced recovery (SIR).

    • Re:Anesthesia notes (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jmitchel!jmitchel.co ( 254506 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @01:22AM (#21180155)
      Interesting note (that I heard about this in a more reputable place... Nature?): per http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Capsaicin_Mixed_with_Lidocaine_Gives_Less_Risky_Anesthetic_09293.html [efluxmedia.com]

      Capsaicin mixed with a lidocaine derivative produced an anesthetic that affected only pain transmitting neurons, without affecting motor neurons. The lidocaine derivative was unable to penetrate nerve cells on its own, but the capsaicin opened pores that are only present in pain neurons.

      IANAD, and only in rats for now.

  • But that's the best part! (Score:4, Funny)

    by sqrt(2) ( 786011 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:05AM (#21179805) Journal

    ...require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal
    hmmm, I think I'll pass on the pepper sauce, doc. Just keep the vicodin coming.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by ResidntGeek ( 772730 )
      That's exactly what I was thinking. Who the hell wants _less_ of an opioid in their blood??

      • Re:But that's the best part! (Score:5, Funny)

        by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:42AM (#21179967) Homepage
        While the drugs may give you a nice buzz, they also can have the side effect of shutting down your gastro-intestinal tract. Getting things moving again can be a real pain in the ass.

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by maxume ( 22995 )
          So can Capsaicin.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          I've been taking morphine everyday for about 6 years. People all think you get a buzz from it, but you don't. They have controlled release stuff nowadays too. I think I had a slight buzz once (maybe twice) during the first day I took it. And I'm not on low doses (hell, I already OD'ed on it, and I wasn't buzzed at all, I just struggled to keep breathing).

          It just makes you not wanna kill yourself so the pain ends (chronic pain is like being tortured 24/7 with no relief, you eventually want it to stop, no mat

  • SiChuan pepper works on my mouth (Score:5, Informative)

    by dwater ( 72834 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:15AM (#21179851)
    I've found that this :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_pepper [wikipedia.org]

    works well as an anesthetic. It's commonly use in Gong Bao Ji Ding (US:Kung Pao Chicken) in China, and, along with ginger, makes it way more tasty than the poor imitation available in the west.

    • Re:SiChuan pepper works on my mouth (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Bryan Ischo ( 893 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @04:44AM (#21180929) Homepage
      I can personally attest to the effects of the sichuan pepper, having eaten dishes made with this pepper in the Hubei region of China. I have enjoyed hot peppers of a variety of types in many of the foods I have eaten over time and consider myself to be a real lover of hot foods. The sichuan peppers really threw me for a loop though because they are the only peppers that have ever had a numbing effect on my mouth. Sure they are hot, but not noticeably hotter than alot of other peppers; but they have a slightly peculiar secondary flavor, and a strong numbing effect.

      The food in the Hubei province is really, really, REALLY good. Having travelled throughout many parts of China and enjoyed the diverse food in all the places I went, Hubei food was definitely at the top of my list. The sichuan peppers weren't the reason for that; they were OK but nothing special. It was the type of food, the zestiness of it, the really unique ingredients (beans in Chinese food? How weird!). There is a chain of Hubei food restaurants in Beijing called Jiu Tou Niau (not sure about the spelling there), which means "nine headed bird", and they are just awesome.

  • How could this be used in poor countries? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mex ( 191941 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:31AM (#21179921)
    Does this mean that in poor populations where peppers are common (such as in Mexico), they could be used to numb or sterilize wounds? Or would this be counter-productive?

    I know many people who don't have access to a first aid kit but who eat peppers every day.

  • So... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Comatose51 ( 687974 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @12:32AM (#21179927) Homepage
    Pouring salt on someone's wounds is not okay but pepper is fine?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Detritus ( 11846 )
      Salt is going to damage cells. Capsaicin is more like sneaking up on your nerves and hitting them over the head with a blackjack.

    • Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)

      by MarkRose ( 820682 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @01:31AM (#21180185) Homepage
      Yes, but only when done by a medical professional. It has to be Dr Pepper.
    • FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

      AMAZONIAN TRIBAL DEPARTMENT OF CANNIBAL HEALTH AND NUTRITION

      Applies to: All foreign explorers and adventurers.
      Current at: 31 October 2007

      There are some media reports in circulation that wounded and captured
      explorers should be peppered but not salted prior to eating. These
      reports should be disregarded.

      Tribal members are reminded that the appropriate seasoning of foreign
      adventurers is entirely at the discretion of the cook. Anyone in need
      of further guidance can consult Schedule 17, Append
    • Actually, while I wouldn't put salt in an open exterior wound, I've found it does help with in-the-mouth canker sores. Whenever a nwe allergy season kicks in it takes my body awhile to adjust, and if I'm not careful what I eat then I end up with sore white craters in my inner lip or sometimes cheek. I've found that wetting a Q-tip, putting salt on it, and then rubbing it into the wound causes an initial sting, then blood rises to the surface and they become less bothersome for awhile. They tend tend to heal
    • Actually salt (or rather salt water - in particular 0.9% saline) is slightly preferable to plain water when cleansing wounds. Water is hypotonic, so causes a shift of water into the exposed cells causing them to swell and rupture. Dead cells are a breeding ground for bacteria, so 0.9% saline (which is isotonic to the exposed cells) is preferable.

      That said, the most preferable cleansing is quickly and copiously right after the injury. So immediately running your cut under the tap for several minutes or ri

      • So immediately running your cut under the tap for several minutes or rinsing it with your bottle of evian is preferable
        Assuming the tap water is clean... and if you don't have evian there's always whisky.
  • /sigh

    I guess it won't be long 'til I start getting emails about the magical wonders of exotic capsaicin from the habanero fields of Central America and how I can satisfy my lover with an erection lasting for 6 hours at a time...
    • True story: went on a date and had hot wings. They were good and hot, just how I like them. Didn't think anything more of it until later in the evening we were ... getting to know each other better. Alot better.

      Let me just say that residual capsaicin transferred to the sensitive mucous membranes of a female don't feel too good. She was out of commission with an intense burning 'down there' for about half an hour. I felt really really badly ... it really killed the mood.

      So my advice is: don't eat spicy
    • My wife is Chinese and keeps bags of those tiny red peppers used in a lot of Asian cooking. Once upon a time I needed some hot sauce to put on beans so I chopped up a bunch of these fiery little devils to put in vinegar. Some time during the chopping I had to pee. I did wash my hands but not nearly well enough. About half way back to the kitchen I realized I had hurt my prize toy. It took several minutes and a combination of soaps to get all the oil off.

      Lesson learned. Pain is a great teacher.

  • I've eaten pieces of fresh habanero (on a dare), and while it was OMFG hot, the numbness didn't last more than 10 or 15 minutes, tops. I have a hard time believing that the capsaicin wouldn't be metabolized in the body pretty quickly, certainly within a day or two.
  • Does this mean we're going to start seeing pepper spray in first aid kits?

  • Bright Ideas : #? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @01:39AM (#21180231)
    This goes along with some other unlikely firsts, eh?

    "Let's eat those things from the chickens butt, but first, put them in hot water for a while."

    "I bet the white liquid from the cows teet goes great with cookies, let's have a go!"

    And now:

    "Hmm, this guy is in serious pain...let's pour salsa in him!"

  • Unforeseen consequences (Score:4, Funny)

    by Gorimek ( 61128 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @01:51AM (#21180269) Homepage
    Who will protect these patients from spice loving cannibals after they leave the hospital?
  • Chuck Norris' cries pure Capsaicin, too bad hes never cried.

  • Capsaicin, the new wonder drug? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by niktemadur ( 793971 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @02:35AM (#21180397)
    Capsaicin is sold as ground chili pepper in capsule form at health stores, and seems to work very well at stimulating cardiac functions in general, as well as unclogging arteries in the long run. Plus, considering that it's natural, with none of the weird side effects that come with most pharmaceuticals, Capsaicin pills work as a supplement to standard medical treatments.

    I'm sure they'll find new properties of Capsaicin as time goes on. However, the corporate rub is that Capsaicin, like hemp, is a naturally occurring substance and therefore cannot be patented... unless (bite your tongue) they 'modify' the current laws.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Plus, considering that it's natural, with none of the weird side effects that come with most pharmaceuticals, Capsaicin pills work as a supplement to standard medical treatments.

      Natural schmatural. Everything that exists is natural, including stuff like hydrogen cyanide and polonium. I'm sure James Randi wouldn't accept just any pharmaceuticals as examples of supernatural phenomena.

      I'm sure they'll find new properties of Capsaicin as time goes on. However, the corporate rub is that Capsaicin, like hemp, is a naturally occurring substance and therefore cannot be patented... unless (bite your tongue) they 'modify' the current laws.

      'Modify' as in 'genetically modify'? I guess some variants could already have been patented.

  • Foolish Endeavors (Score:3, Funny)

    by truckaxle ( 883149 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @03:06AM (#21180557) Homepage
    I once consumed a chip full of this hot sauce [sammcgees.com] and my tongue was numb for a day. A day later it payed the compliment to the other end.
    • A day later it payed the compliment to the other end.

      In Mexico, that's know as "paying taxes".

      I'm very, very good at eating spicy, but once, in a seafood joint, I noticed a bottle of Insanity Sauce, which I'd never seen before, and with due warning from the guys there, I put like, six drops on my ceviche tostada, and for the first time in years, my eyes watered up, I couldn't believe it. The guys had a good chuckle, but went silent when I put six more drops in my next tostada, and the next one. When I ret
  • As I grew up, I heard stories of how my parent, especially, my father, was treated or has seen treatment of wounds using home grown peppers on their farm. This isn't something that comes as a surprise, since most hot peppers have some/varying levels of Capsaicin in their composition. Anyone from a developing country can attest to this, in fact, many American Indians can also attest to this, tobacco and coal as a means of treatment. Fairly interesting seeing its use by modern medicine as well.

  • Useful advice. (Score:5, Informative)

    by niktemadur ( 793971 ) on Wednesday October 31, 2007 @07:30AM (#21181683)
    There's a lot of posters writing about their experiences after eating habaneros and the like, either out of curiosity or on a dare.
    Well, here's a great tip next time you're on a dare, or in a thai or mexican restaurant: Keep a piece of candy nearby. If the burning sensation becomes too much to bear, unwrap the candy and pop it in your mouth, the sudden sugar coating on the tongue will overwhelm the taste buds with a near-opposite sensation, canceling most of the pain.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dave420 ( 699308 )
      Milk works brilliantly, too. Water and fizzy drinks (even beer! noo!) make it worse.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cheros ( 223479 )
      If you're in a proper Thai restaurant, order sticky rice (in advance :-). That will also help control the fire, and it's nice to start with..

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