Study Proves Having Fat Friends Makes You Fat 693
Xemu writes "Having fat friends makes you fat, researchers from Harvard Medical School and the University of California says after after examining 12,067 individuals and 38,611 of their relatives and friends. In same-sex friendships, people were 71 per cent more likely to put on weight if a friend of theirs became obese. "It's not that obese or non-obese people simply find other similar people to hang out with. Rather, there is a direct, causal relationship," says Harvard professor Nicholas Christakis."
BUT I'M STARVING! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll tell you why this is, via anecdotes (Score:1, Insightful)
No, nor does having fat friends (Score:3, Insightful)
Way to go, samzenpus. Slashdot, sigh.
Re:I'll tell you why this is, via anecdotes (Score:5, Insightful)
When they took away my drugs I did not speak up.
When they took away my nicotine I did not speak up.
When they took away my food...
Re:Tired of saying the same thing? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Tired of saying the same thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you RTFA? Or just assume correlation.
It could very well be like many other biological items... like women who spend time together tend to align their menstrual cycles... or do you think that's another 'correlation'?
Perhaps the body takes 'fat cues' from your peer group -- if you spend a lot of time with fat people your that might trigger a biological response to store energy... in the same way that throwing up is 'contagious'... where your body sees others doing something, and this triggers the same survival instinct says that if something the people around you ate is making them sick it might be a good idea to get rid of whatever you ate too, since its likely the same stuff.
I'm not saying its true and even if it is true, I'd expect there are likely other elements at play too -- like if you hang out with people who don't excersie you'll probably be less inclined to exercise yourself -- etc, but just writing it off with a sarcastic 'correlation not causation 'nuff said' post is just close minded and ignorant.
I'd certainly be interested in knowing if there is a biological/biochemical factor to it.
Re:Fat friends with benefits (Score:5, Insightful)
If only it were that simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Smokers? They need to stop smoking! It's all about the choices they made dammit. Quit blaming others.
Skinny geeks? They need to get more exercise and eat better food! It's all about the choices they made dammit. Quit blaming others.
I really wish that scientists and doctors would quit trying to hand out excuses.
Too many people today blame anyone or anything but themselves for the dilemmas they find themselves in.
Re:Cruel (Score:4, Insightful)
How dare you! (Score:5, Insightful)
Insightful Breaking news!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'll tell you why this is, via anecdotes (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
They're not claiming that fat rubs off from one person onto another. But friends engage in similar behaviors to one another - that's socialization. The scientists' observation will apply less to those with strong will and more to those who follow group behaviors. Nothing in what these scientists have observed contradicts the idea of personal responsibility; they're making the rather bland discovery that people tend to act like those with whom they identify and those with whom they enjoy spending time. You sound a little too quick to jump the gun with the fed-up borderline-hostile response.
That being said, while weight and physical health are more dependent on personal choices than most would like to believe, to discount the impact of biological and genetic factors outright is just silly. Personal choice has an influence, as do circumstances beyond the person's control; how much is to blame for a given case depends on the person.
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is psychology, which effects all of us. And they did do a scientific study. Why would someone make a bad choice? There are more interesting answers than the standard, intellectually lazy "it's their own damn fault. period.".
Re:Dumb Correlation? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but socializing with them will make you ACT like if you're dumb. The point of the study is that you LEARN from your friends to eat more and more often.
Friends/Family Influce People, Doen't CAUSE (Score:5, Insightful)
People's "intelligence" on this issue continues to amaze me. What does AA tell you to do? Stop hanging out with alcoholics because you are more likely to repeat your behavior if you do. What does NA tell you to do? Stop hanging out with druggies because you are more likely to relapse. If you go to OA (Over-eaters Anon.) I'm guessing they tell you something similar.
People follow their peers to a degree. People gain some weight, their friends see it and lose a little stigma of gaining weight, so they do, and the cycle repeats. If you are fat, you are more likely to hang out with other fat people. Thin people are more likely to not eat as much as you. They are more likely to give you a look for complaining about gaining weight while stuffing your face. Other fat people are likely to sympathize with you. After all, to tell you otherwise would be hypocritical (if they don't follow it) or "mean" (if they are working on it).
Do you wonder why when you see families at malls they are usually all thin or all fat? It's not genes. Maybe that contributes some, but mostly it is diet. If the mom cooks healthy most of the time, the family will be exposed to that very often. If the dad exercises a lot, the kids and mom will be exposed to that. If they just buy fast food and junk all the time and snack lots, the kids will learn those behaviors. I'd bet the relation between close relatives in the same house is about the same as the relation between adoptive parents and children. The habits the kids/family learn are a huge part of things.
I've lost a ton of weight. I didn't have a lot of tolerance for this before, and I'm losing what I have. The causes of obesity are not a mystery. They have been known for a LONG time. There are recent things that contribute (fast food, maybe HFCS, etc), but it is still no mystery. I'd peg it at mostly willpower and intolerance of anything that isn't fun or easy or doesn't feel good; an attitude that is becoming more and more common.
Our attitude has changed. Being fat is much more accepted now. People complain about the "unfair standard" on TV, but it's not like you have no choice. I'll agree the near anorexic models are not realistic, but more and more people seem to be moving into "the blob" territory. I've seen more than a few ultra-obiese people on scooters recently, something I don't remember seeing even 10 years ago.
It's people's fault. For most people it isn't fate. I see people who want to lose weight. Lots. Just about all complain. "I can't lose weight." Yet they continue to not exercise (or they do for about a week and then give it up). They either don't change their eating habits, give up the change after a week or two (which actually makes things worse for you), or change to eating "healthy" and end up eating constantly so the calories are just spread out over the day instead of in 3 huge meals. You don't need gastric bypass surgery. You don't need a miracle diet drug. You don't need a new diet food.
To use make my point in an extreme way, how many people in bad POW camps were overweight. How many in areas with food shortage problems? How many people in the old prison work camps or working in coal mines were overweight? Basically none because these people either got very few calories, or burned a ton. Now some of these fates are horrific, but it proves that basically anyone can lose weight. These days there are only a few people who I would excuse from this requirement, and those are some people on very serious prescription drugs that have strong side effects.
What does diet food do any way? As diet food became more common, people ate more of it. Each cookie may have had fewer calories, but a great many people made up for that with quantity. If someone did invent another miracle pill (something akin to Fen-Phen without the problems), I'm guessing most people would eventually start to gain weight again because they would start to eat more later. I think this is just like how many people who pay off debt with 2nd mortgages get back into debt.
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:1, Insightful)
She never lost an ounce of weight. She went through a lot of shoes though.
Eat less and excersize more doesn't always cut it. First hand I have SEEN this.
You fail it (Score:5, Insightful)
It's truly dumb to make it sound like you're outraged because the study says your fat friends will make you fat if they touch you.
Re:Friends/Family Influce People, Doen't CAUSE (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
First,glad to know that you have done your own extensive, scientific study. I guess it is a shame you just have not released it yet. We all await it eagerly, i can tell you.
Secondly, the real problem with the argument that everyone chooses everything they do is that there is some truth to it. There is more untruth, but that sliver is something people gasp and never let go. An example which you will like ignore follows:
25% of the population lack a gene. This lack means that it is harder for them to get enjoyment from smoking. It also makes it easier to quit when they try. By your logic that gene has nothing to do with it and it is merely a choice. However, without knowing ANYTHING else about a group of people except whither or not they lack the gene, i can predict more accurately how hard it will quit then someone who knows nothing. This is not a question of will power but of biology.
People are not created equal, people have different needs and tolerances. Something YOU can control someone else can not. Not because it is a flaw, but because they are not you. You maybe able to eat or not eat as is your whim yet maybe you can not control your anger. We are a messy, wiggly species with the most convoluted lump of matter in the universe between our ears. And you think you control it.
You are not in control of everything in you life, you do not choose to do everything you do. Your heart beats, your feet sweat, your hair grows. People being made aware of the things that shape their lives is nothing but good. People who are social around each tend to do the same sort of things,in a natural and HEALTHY way. This study underlines that.
Your hard line stance is wrong, does nothing to help and merely contains a note of derision and contempt. I hope you learn to accept the things that are beyond your control.
Re:Since the 80's, Big Food Has Been Killing YOU. (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a simpler explanation - fat people seek out fatter people as friends, so they won't look so fat when they stand beside them.
You might laugh, but its true. Fat people can't easily strike up friendships with skinny people. They don't do the same things. How is a skinny person going to play tennis with a fat person? Or long walks? Or roller blading? Or riding a bike? Or even long shopping trips at the mall ... Or anything else that doesn't involve sitting more or less motionless ...
So fat people hang out with fat people, both because they are looking for assurance that they themselves aren't as fat as some other people, and because they don't have all that many options.
So of course, when you get fat people together, they reinforce each others habits of inactivity and over-eating ... so yes, fat friends will make you fat(ter).
BTW - if you're fat and don't have any friends fatter than you, you're the one that fat people want to stand beside when its time to take pictures. Time to cut out the crap food, the too-big portions, the second helpings, and start starving yourself, because nothing else will work. And no, you don't have a glandular problem - you got that way one bite at a time, just like everyone else.
Re:Cruel (Score:5, Insightful)
Comparing yourselves to minorities who have actually been oppressed is sickening.
Re:Correlation != Causation (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it doesn't. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cruel (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it also sicken you to compare religious oppression to racial oppression?
Re:Tired of saying the same thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
"It could very well be like many other biological items... like women who spend time together tend to align their menstrual cycles... or do you think that's another 'correlation'?"
There we have actual evidence that hormones play a role. If all we had was a study showing that women who live together have closely aligned menstrual cycles, all we would have would be a correlation and no evidence of a causation. It could easily be a statistical coincidence, or it could be caused by common environmental factors. It would be irresponsible for a scientists to claim one woman's period can cause another woman's period with just that information.
"Perhaps the body takes 'fat cues' from your peer group -- if you spend a lot of time with fat people your that might trigger a biological response to store energy..."
Thats nothing but pure speculation by a /.er who obviously has no knowledge of the scientific process. And who is obviously ignorant of the study (did you RTFA?), as proximity had no impact (there is a correlation between fat friends across the country, but not fat neighbors living next door to each other). Its about the equivalent of me speculating that Lindsey Lohan (or whatever her name is) was carrying those drugs because a drug lord had kidnapped her parents and was forcing her to drive them to Portugal. In other words, your hypothesis is completely useless, and by stating it all you have done is waste precious brainpower.
The only hypothesis I've heard regarding it is that it is caused by a person's standards of what is an ideal weight being set by their friends. And thats a hypothesis. No one in the study is claiming having a fat friend causes you to be fat, because they understand the fact that correlation does not mean causation.
"but just writing it off with a sarcastic 'correlation not causation 'nuff said' post is just close minded and ignorant."
Its not "writing it off" to state that the /. headline (Study Proves Having Fat Friends Makes You Fat) is badly worded at best.
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cruel (Score:5, Insightful)
Not being a minority did stop women from being treated that way for millenium...
Perhaps it is more accurate to say that fat people are th elast socialy acceptable peer group to abuse. The main reason for this is because it is perceived to be a lack of will power or moral fibre that got them that way in the first place.
Oddly enough, obesity seems to be mostly a disease of first world societies. Could it be that human evolved to live in an environment of scarcity and that in 2-3 generations we haven't yet managed to rewire ourselves to adjust to living in an environment of plenty.
The reason that the majority of people are overweight is that for normal[1] people living normal[1] lives they consume far more calories than they burn.
[1] Normal is a mathematical concept. It is a form of average. If we want to change what normal is we need significant social change regarding lifestyles to permit people to eat healither foods, have the time and motivation to exercise physically and to show more restraint in what they consume.
And it is likely it will take a major shift in work/life balance across all sectors of industry for this to happen.
This isn't saying people can't take personal responsibility for their actions, it's saying that human nature being what it is, unless it is easier to live a healthy life than it is to live an unhealthy life - people will continue to expand.
Re:Cruel (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Since the 80's, Big Food Has Been Killing YOU. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you make exercise a daily thing, you can enjoy a very healthy appetite. For all beer drinkers out there, some of the new low carb ones are phenomenal stuff - we've got Carlton's Pure Blondes in Australia and they're great.
Re:Cruel (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if you grow up a fat kid (I did), you can lose the weight when you get old enough to realize that being obese is not in your long term interest.
You've fighting a strawman. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for me, my personal experience leaves me inclined to trust this study's results. When I was in college, I lost a lot of weight without consciously thinking about it (or changing my diet, which was dictated by my personal finances, and thus fairly constant, at the time) when I was chasing after a thin woman, to the point where some ex-roommates referred to me as "half of Duff" when meeting me in the library; that trend ended roughly when our friendship became more distant and I was less focused on getting her attention.
So -- I'm perfectly willing to believe that, in the absence of other factors, hanging out with thin people makes it easier for one to lose weight without making conscious decisions to do so, and that hanging out with fat people gives one a predisposition towards gaining weight. Obviously, neither of these is foolproof -- failing to exercise will have a bigger influence than hanging out with thin people, and planning one's diet carefully will have a bigger influence than hanging out with fat people -- but that's not to say that this isn't a legitimate influence, and well worth knowing about.
Hard to believe (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Study is all wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
First, walking at a leisurely pace is not the same as working out strenuously.
Second, unless you stalked her while you were dating, you have no way of knowing how many Twinkies she scarfed down while you were not looking.
Third, unless you stalked her before you were dating, you have no way of knowing whether or not she was eating less and exercising more than normal. Just because someone has a slow metabolism and it takes more exercise for them to maintain a healthy weight than other people does not mean they can't lose weight. It means their body needs more exercise or less food than other people.
Fourth, you lost all credibility with your second sentence anyways.
Obesity != virus, disease, etc. (Score:4, Insightful)
Obesity is a condition based on the terrible BMI chart, which was NEVER meant to be used the way it is today. It's more of a vague approximation.
What Obesity really is is a symptom. Obesity is NOT the cause of all those health problems that doctors try to blame on it (which is just about everything these days). The only thing that Obesity would cause is join pain in the knees and other things like that that actually make sense. Diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems...they're all from poor nutrition, lack of exercise, and genetics, NOT from being "overweight."
It's perfectly possible to be "overweight" or even "obese" (according to the all-knowing BMI) and be perfectly healthy. The diet industry would just like you to think otherwise, and spend your life unhappy, looking for an answer to this "problem" that they've convinced society is the worst thing possible
What percentages of diets fail? Now remember, failing means either giving up, or putting on at least 80% of what was lost?
Try 95%. And often, failed diets result in MORE weight put back on. Your body senses the diet as a lack of food, and over a period of yo-yo dieting DECREASES your metabolism. Yo-yo dieting is definitely more harmful than if you stayed at the same weight.
Just eat healthier, get some exercise, and learn to love your body, no matter how it looks. It's not about inches or pounds, it's about the crap INSIDE your body working the way it should.
Re:Friends/Family Influce People, Doen't CAUSE (Score:5, Insightful)
But changing your actions can be difficult. Changing your whole life so you are "healthy" is a lifelong process. You can't do it in a day or a week or a year. It happens slowly over time. Trying to do more than you can do right now will do more harm than good.
I don't know if it will help anybody, but I'll leave some advice that's helped me in the past.
First, accept where you are. If you are 350 lbs, then you are 350 lbs. There is nothing in the world that can change that right now. In the future, your actions can have an impact on your weight. But nothing you do will affect your weight in the present. So relax. Life is still good. Get on with it and don't worry about it.
Second, measure yourself every day. If you are interested in your weight, then get a scale and step on it every day. Don't do this until you've finished step 1. If you can't look at your weight without being disgusted, then you can't improve. You *must* accept where you are and merely record your weight.
Third, pick some exercise that you can do and do it 6 days a week. I like running. If you are really heavy, then biking or swimming might be better. It doesn't really matter what you pick. But understand that the lower the intensity (i.e., the less energy it burns) the more time you have to do it. Try to find someone experienced to help you. The Running Room has free running clinics around here which are very good. Or you can do some sports at a community center very cheaply. The important thing is to do it *every day* (Well, I allow one day of rest).
When doing the exercise, start with an intensity and duration that makes you very tired. Every week add 10-15% to the duration. Adjust your intensity so that you are at about 80% exertion level (hard to guage when you first start, but you'll figure it out over time).
Fourth record your progress. If you are able to increase the duration and intensity every week, keep going. If not, back off for a week. It is possible to overtrain.
Fifth learn the difference between "Good hurt" and "Bad hurt". Talk to people who know about your sport. Understand what the difference is for your sport. "Good hurt" is something that's sore that won't lead to
injury if you continue to train. "Bad hurt" is something that is getting injured as you train. For a variety of sports, it's difficult for a novice to tell the difference. Make sure to keep training even if you have "Good hurt". Take a break if you have "Bad hurt".
Note: At the beginning you will almost certainly experience a lot of "Good Hurt". Don't let it stop you. Push through it. It *does* go away. For running I find that you can start getting good runs somewhere in the 3rd week. If you have only tried exercising regularly (i.e. 6 days a week) for less than a month, then it's possible you have never experienced a good training day. Keep it up for at least 2 months before you decide you don't like the sport. It's easy to switch sports at that point anyway.
Six keep track of what you are eating. Writing it down is fine. Don't worry so much about it. But make sure you observe what you eat. Pay attention to it. As you continue training, the diet will often take care of itself. I've observed this many many times. I don't know why it works, but it does. As you start to train harder and harder, you will often start to eat much better. I don't know why.
Seven expect to ultimately be spending 1 to 2 hours a day training. Your final level will ultimately be determined by your interest. But that's a reasonable amount. Of course when you first start, that amount of time seems completely impossible. That's why you start small and increment by 10%.
Expect it to take 4-6 mon
Re:Cruel (Score:5, Insightful)
About the beer thing (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cruel (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Since the 80's, Big Food Has Been Killing YOU. (Score:5, Insightful)
The most difficult thing is always, always the psychological factors. Starvation dieting with minimal protein intake and fruits/veggies etc to maintain lean body mass is actually incredibly effective. However, the adherence rate is quite low. Your brain only has so much self-control, and using self-control in one thing has been shown to diminish it in others in studies, thus making some behavior more impulsive/avoidant, which can certainly cause problems with diet and exercise.
Physiologically though? It can be quite effective. Psychologically, probably quite difficult unless you're railing a lot of coke.
One thing I have learned is that the physiology of weight loss is almost irrelevant; it is all about the psychology. Transforming like of bad food to not like, transforming not like of good food to like, transforming not like of physical exertion to like, transforming like of sedentary activity to not like. But at every turn, the brain itself resists change and makes this a very difficult struggle.
As the saying in KOTOR went, "passion gives me strength." I think passion for what you want, and passion for every step along that path is key, because if you hate it and just want to continue doing what you've always done, you will is going to fail and you won't be able to do it consistently.
But actually creating genuine passion for something you don't like, and diminishing that for what you do like, now that's a bitch.
thanks, captain obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right. Something has changed. (Score:5, Insightful)
HFCS is no worse for you than sucrose, and because it is sweeter than cane sugar per calorie, it may even be better.
The real answer is that calorie consumption has increase over 20 percent since 1980, and physical activity has probably decreased during the same period.
Check the graph on page 3:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/FoodReview/D
People always like to place blame on external target rather than looking at the real problem, that people eat too much. It's easy to blame HFCS (though its no worse than sugar) or fatty foods (though many countries eat much more fat than we do yet don't get fat). Much harder to look at the situation honestly and say that we are a bunch of lazy gluttons.
'It's all the fault of Nixon and that damned HFCS!' Is a great feelgood answer that doesn't hurt anyones feelings, but it simply isn't the truth.
Re:yes (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously though, yes, friends are probably more likely to eat the same type of food. In the the same way they are also more likely to share the same hobbies, listen to the same music, watch the same movies, wear the the same type of clothes and even share opinions and political views; and, to think of the children, if your friends are doing drugs, you are perhaps also more likely to try them too.
It's called peer pressure.
Re:Obesity != virus, disease, etc. (Score:3, Insightful)
More eurocentric bollocks from someone who probably thinks Discovery is some sort of substitute for an education.
In much of sub-Saharan Africa and in the Pacific Islands, fat (and even obesity) is traditionally considered a mark of beauty, health, wealth, fertility and status.
It was even so in Europe, not so many generations ago. Go back and look at some renaissance paintings - Botticelli is a good example. See the fat Venus? That means Venus had plenty to eat and was not in danger of starvation, which (among other things makes her a very viable mother of children. IN medieval Japan, samurai traditionally cultivated a good rotund pot. Why? Because the dominant fighting style of the day placed great utility on balance and stability, and a low centre of gravity provides this well. For the vast bulk (heh) of human history, malnutrition has been a much more significant threat to survival than obesity. The trend toward thin women and athletic men being attractive happened broadly as food supply problems lessened and has achieved its natural conclusion in the most affluent societies, where overeating is now a far greater risk than malnutrition in the usual case.
You think the modern obesity aversion is genetic; it's not. It's cultural. If we faced a few hundred years of severe food shortage, you'd probably see it reverse.
L
Re:Friends/Family Influce People, Doen't CAUSE (Score:3, Insightful)
Congratulations! You became a bitter, self-hating prick when you were chubby, and have transferred those self-hating feelings onto people who remind you of the way you used to be.
Being gay is much more accepted now. Being black or Jewish is much more accepted now. I don't want to get into the "matter of choice" distinction--most people aren't clever enough to make that distinction to begin with, so that's not a factor in this. We're just more tolerant of those who are different than we used to be. And yes, that'll transfer onto fat people, at least insofar as there aren't pricks running around insulting people over their weight.
That's a form of causality. You can quibble over terminology as much as you want, but if a term is used in a specific way in a specific context consistently, that's the standard meaning within that context. That's how language works. And getting into semantic quibbles over it just to justify your prejudice against fat people is just silly.
I'm not saying obesity is the bee's knees, but unless you're an athlete (well, other than a football lineman or sumo wrestler), it could very well be that accepting a little fatness will actually improve your quality of life, all things considered. There's only 24 hours in a day, and even given the endorphin rush, I don't always want to spend one of those hours on a cardio machine. Maybe I have work, or maybe I want to study the news or read a book. There's a certain point where I'd rather be better informed, better read, and wealthier at the expense of being a little pudgy. I might even complain that I'm a little heavier than I want to be, and while in some crazy possible world you conjure up I'd be skinny because I'd be in a POW camp, that may just be a necessary tradeoff for my overall quality of life. And I may very well complain that food ingredients and additives change so that tradeoff isn't so necessary or severe. Or I might rue my poor genetics--wouldn't be the first time. But if you want to just keep on appointing yourself the giver of unsolicited advice about how I take care of my body, I just might have to sit on you and break some of your ribs.
Re:Yeah, right. Something has changed. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right. Something has changed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cruel (Score:2, Insightful)
Kudos for your weight loss so far--keep it up! Every bit of exercise you do makes your heart stronger and your body healthier.
Re:Cruel (Score:5, Insightful)
Not being a minority did stop women from being treated that way for millenium...
Perhaps it is more accurate to say that fat people are th elast socialy acceptable peer group to abuse. The main reason for this is because it is perceived to be a lack of will power or moral fibre that got them that way in the first place.
You know what? Being fat is not okay. It sucks. It ruins your youth (and I'm sure the rest of your life too). If you are fat, try to change. Don't accept it and feel good about your body. Lose that weight and THEN feel good. That stupid self-esteem program should have said "You can lose weight! You don't have to be trapped under 40 extra pounds of fat!" That's good self-esteem.
Yes, some people have medical problems that cause them to be fat. You know what? I feel sorry for them, just like I feel sorry for people who have lost a limb. If there is no possibility for them to lose weight, then obviously you shouldn't make them feel bad about that. But I don't celebrate it. It's horrible to take that tiny exemption and apply it to all fat people, because you are helping to ruin the lives of people who do have a choice.
Re:Fat friends with benefits (Score:2, Insightful)
Bones are not pleasant to rub against. In fact, doing so can be rather painful; they are hard and sometimes pointy depending on the angle of impact. Ergo: stick-thin, model-type chicks, while (possibly) pleasing to the eye, are not good companions when actual physical contact is involved, because you will get poked. (I speak from experience.)
There is a reason why humans have at least some body fat: cushioning!
Re:Kinda notasheep's point (Score:4, Insightful)
I was asked if I'd like a health coach. To help me with my eating or exercise habits. I hadn't found out that it was because of my high BMI until after I met with her (on company time). After explaining that I spend roughly 8 hours a week doing shaolin kung fu, and I bike a total of 14.2 miles to and from work almost every day, I was told that I am not getting enough caloric intake. Strange. But at the same time she was impressed that I looked absolutely nothing like her perception of a 5'8", 200lb man.
I have a small pouch of a stomach and that's about it. And most people don't notice it unless I'm showing off. Which I do from time to time ("feel it kick"). My point is that the BMI can be very flawed. Perhaps America is only fat on paper, but a quick look around tells me otherwise. I scanned my office and see at least60% overweight or obese, and about a sixth of them morbidly so. Every one of these is guilty of being on weight watchers, eating "Lean Pockets", and a few Jenny Craig lunches throughout the day. Yet not losing weight, but increasing their already powerful gravitational field.
America is fat because a lot of us get it all too easy, and if it's not easy, it's not American, apparently. "Just take 'Mataboslim' and sit on your fat ass and watch it melt away!", "Eat whatever you want! Our patented formula of goats.ex and monkey urine will melt those pounds off and prevent your body from holding on to any nutrition whatsoever!"
A little background on me is that I was 240 in high school, and about 38% fat. I lost 70lbs in college when I stopped drinking Pepsi and all other carbonated sugar water. It took two months. My dad thought I was anorexic, but the opposite was the truth. I ate everything I could. And kept it down. It was the extra 1000-1500g of sugar I was no longer consuming.
Re:Cruel (Score:3, Insightful)
> while consuming substantially more calories than before.
> [...]
> I'm guessing I now take in half again more calories, but
> I weigh ten or twelve pounds less
>
Then your expenditure of energy has increased by more than 50%, and you say this has been achieved without any additional exercise. It seems much more likely that you are or were not measuring your caloric intake correctly.
Yes it does (was No, nor does having fat friends") (Score:5, Insightful)
In a social peer environment where everybody else is either plump or really fat, being slim means getting teased at every social event, every family gathering, every "social networking" event.
If you don't eat Grandma's signature dish of deep fried twinkies with buttercream frosting when everybody else is piling their plates high with them, Grandma's feelings get hurt. Ditto for the fried chicken, buttermilk pound cake, candied yams, etc., etc., etc.
If you have to request (or bring your own) healthy food to every event because any vegetable that's there is slathered in cream of mushroom soup and cheddar cheese, you are labeled a snob.
If you have to request (or bring your own) diet soda pop and/or light beer to every barbeque, you are derided as a wimpy, effeminate liberal.
If you host a party for your friends and relatives where you serve the foods that you typically eat instead of the foods they typically eat - grilled, broiled or baked meats instead of fried, deep-fried or chicken-fried, fresh vegetables instead of salt, sugar and cream casseroles, relatively low-cal drinks instead of colored and carbonated high fructose corn syrup, good desserts instead of huge desserts - then your parties will be really low on anyone's list of favorite events, because the food is "weird".
Doritos, sour cream and onion potato chips, bowls of candy or nuts and chocolate-covered strawberries are as tempting to slim people as they are to fat people. It's really easy to be fat. It takes effort to stay slim. By exerting that effort at these social events, by not accepting the food they offer to you, you are saying to your plump/fat/obese friends and relatives, "I don't want to be like you." Or at least, that is how they will interpret it.
If you have a fat social network that does not exert pressure on you to also get fat, either overt or covert pressure, conscious or unconscious pressure, then you are very, very lucky.
Try dieting around unsympathetic friends. (Score:3, Insightful)
And, yes, these people are kind of jackasses for doing this, but what are you going to do? Cut yourself off from your friends or tell them that it's either the jerks or you? After all, from their point of view, it's you being selfish by telling everyone you won't go let them eat where they'd like to if they're going to be with you. Healthy restaurants are often much more expensive than fast food places and may not have food that your friends like if they're used to eating nothing but the grease and starch that is the staple of the modern American diet.
Let's face it, eating together with people is one of the most common and universal means of socializing for mankind. The people you hang out with will have the same dietary habits you do because those are the places you are used to gathering and the food you are all used to eating. If your friends eat healthy food, you'll be forced to go the healthy places and probably won't gain as much weight. If your friends eat unhealthy food, you'll be forced to go to unhealthy places.
The alternative is simply cutting yourself off from your friends, which only affirms the point of the research.
Re:Yes it does (was No, nor does having fat friend (Score:2, Insightful)
If you take some minimal time and emmerse yourself in cookings, learn a bit on how to handle a knife, basic techniques, try out a lot of recipes, etc. You can be known in your circle of friends as someone who "knows how to cook" and "makes decent food", regardless of how much butter/sweet sweet bacon fat/etc goes into your food. It's about cooking *tasty* things, not necessarily fatty things. It's not actually that hard. Spend a few dollars extra on fresh, in-season vegetables, instead of canned. Invest in a few quality spices (or grow you're own on your windowsill for pennies), vinegars, oils, etc. Try a lot of recipes and experiment. Food blogs are an excellent source for this. Take a little time to cook real food, look back at some old things you hate --I hated those purple beets growing up, but they grow these absoletly phenomenal golden beets around my parts that are mild and sweet and taste great simply roasted in an oven --no oil/butter, no salt, no pepper.
Hell learning how to make a few simple salad dressings that don't suck has vastly increased my vegetable in-take. Learning a few dynamite salads and playing with them as things come in and out of season has been great. It's gotten to the point where I actually get cravings for salad --something a country boy growing up in cattle country never thought would happen.
Case-in-point, a recent food gathering I had (I cook the food, some friends bring the wine) I had a simple salad of fresh ingredients (good asparagus, green beans, simple home-made croutons, and some quick marinated cherry tomatoes in cinnamon, some good quality sherry vinegar, and a splash of olive oil) totally steal the show from my ultra-fat main course (a pan-fried(in oil) honey-mustard chicken schnitzel in a *butter*-caper sauce). I've never had someone turn down the healthy options that I cook as "nasty health-food" because there are ways to do it right.
And since when do people turn down the lean option you presented? A good BBQ'd steak for my kingdom! who turns that down for some nasty chicken-fried steak --you hang out with some ****ed up people.
Re:Yeah, right. Something has changed. (Score:1, Insightful)
Might it be a big dropoff in physical activity? Kids are lazier, go out less (due in part to paranoid parents) and don't get any sort of physical workout... and manual labor jobs that provide exercise in and of themselves are a smaller and smaller part of the economy.
But I admit, that speaks to individual responsibility, and blaming large corporations is much easier and takes less mental effort.
"Less effort"... hmmm....