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Solar Powered UAV to Set Aviation Endurance Record? 59

Iddo Genuth writes to mention that a group of Israeli students is hoping their latest unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) will soon break the world aviation record for endurance that has stood for over 17 years. The piece features a short history of solar power aviation and an interview with the students.
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Solar Powered UAV to Set Aviation Endurance Record?

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  • hmm (Score:2, Insightful)

    The work done at the Technion as well as elsewhere around the world is starting to attract the attention of the aviation industry with the hope of creating green aircrafts with a much higher endurance threshold.

    I dont really see this being applied to commercial passenger or cargo planes. Maybe ultralites.
    • It's possible that they mean airplanes could gain some energy by covering themselves with solar panels? I'm with you though; I don't see any of this being viable for any commercial airline in the immediate future.
      • I'm with you though; I don't see any of this being viable for any commercial airline in the immediate future.
        Why not? Besides the obvious energy gains, what about the gain realized by not having to take off with whatever fuel the solar energy replaced? There's the extra cost for maintenance, but lifting all that fuel to 10,000 meters has got to be expensive.

        This doesn't have to replace traditional fuels, it can supplement them.
        • I agree.. How much Jet fuel is used to Power the heating/AC, Power ports, TV's lights, etc. When they pull a plane to the gate, they hook it up to a power system to keep the AC, lights, etc, running, without wasting fuel. How much could be saved both fuel and electricity at the airports?
          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by DieByWire ( 744043 )

            When they pull a plane to the gate, they hook it up to a power system to keep the AC, lights, etc, running, without wasting fuel. How much could be saved both fuel and electricity at the airports?

            Why don't you just put solar panels on the terminal roof then? Cheaper, no weight added to aircraft, easier to engineer, and useful when the plane's not there.

            Solar power for airplanes is a niche market - high, slow, endurance, light weight. You won't be seeing it on airliners anytime soon.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by DieByWire ( 744043 )

          This doesn't have to replace traditional fuels, it can supplement them.

          While technically not impossible, it would be completely impractical.

          Solar's strength is high and slow. High, because you're actually going to get more sunlight (power) as you climb, whereas combustion engines lose power as you climb due to thinning air. (One reason why Helios was pushing 100,000 feet.) Slow, because you're using an electric motor to turn a big, slow revving prop. (Props can't get anywhere close to mach without tre

          • Again, why can't you run your engines off jet fuel, and everything else (lights, radio, etc) from solar cells? Save some fuel in the process.
            • by jandrese ( 485 )
              I'm betting the added weight of the solar cells is going to make you burn more jet fuel to lift than you save by collecting sunlight to power the instruments/lights on the aircraft. Not to mention it would be incredibly expensive and I bet fairly hard on the solar cells (wings flex during flight).
              • Not to mention it would be incredibly expensive and I bet fairly hard on the solar cells (wings flex during flight).

                The added maintenance costs are a problem. But the price depends on the expected life of the cells; flex is not so much an issue, since a grid of smaller cells can be used that will allow flexion of the wing. I'd expect debris to be a bigger factor, really reducing efficiency in the long run. As for weight, I'd expect the cells to be fairly light; fuel, on the other hand, is quite dense. I

              • by spun ( 1352 )
                Read the article. The entire Sunrise II aircraft with enough solar cells to put out 600 watts weighed about 4lbs. Solar cells are light.
            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by DieByWire ( 744043 )

              Again, why can't you run your engines off jet fuel, and everything else (lights, radio, etc) from solar cells? Save some fuel in the process.

              Same reason you don't have solar cells on your gasoline powered car powering your electrical system - because its waaayyyy cheaper to just let the engine turn a generator. Airliners also fly during the evening, at night, and at high latitudes where the sun's angle incidence is too low for the solar panel to produce meaningful power.

          • Solar's niche is high altitude, slow speed and long endurance. It will have some neat uses, but there's not enough oomph for high speed or high payload applications like jetting to Vegas for the weekend.

            Maybe a leisurely aircruise to Vegas then. Just imagine all that surface area on a Zeppelin!
          • by xtracto ( 837672 )
            What I want is a solar powered citadel. Or at least something similar. Imagine a Mall located over the clouds =o) that would be cool.
    • and that's why you won't be the one to make money off of it.
      today ultralites, tomorrow something else. i'm no avionics/aviation specialist, but come on. real advances happen when people think outside of the box. typically, "the box" just means "what was previously thought impossible."
    • by arth1 ( 260657 )
      It's more than likely not meant to attract the attention of civilian industry.
      Longer-lasting spy-plane surveillance missions or even explosive carrying missions would probably not be something the Israeli Military would be adverse to. Unmanned probes that can reach not just Beirut but Tehran, and stay up for days waiting for the target? It's a sure seller, and the rich uncle Sam will as always pay for the new toys.
      • Unmanned probes that can reach not just Beirut but Tehran, and stay up for days waiting for the target? It's a sure seller, and the rich uncle Sam will as always pay for the new toys.

        A modern "Western" society (including Israel) is too advanced socially and culturally to deal with the inconvenient people the old-fashioned way — through massive killings, destruction, and/or religious conversions (the latter being the mildest form).

        While undoubtedly a good thing, this inability is seen by some as da

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by h2_plus_O ( 976551 )

      dont really see this being applied to commercial passenger or cargo planes. Maybe ultralites.
      Think military, recon, and intelligence-gathering. The ability to have a drone orbit the same patch of earth for days over a target with live video feed? You could spy on the sunbathers next door without being detected for sure.
    • by Xymor ( 943922 )
      Well, make a solar powered blimp, and bingo, You got yourself a low cost, low orbit "satelite" which is maintainable and can be upgraded.
    • True, but that isn't really the target market. These are aimed at 0-emmision satellite replacements. Think of a solar power plane at 100k feet as a mini-satellite with a reduced coverage area. The market is telecoms (lower latency) and spy-work. The NASA version has a mixture of solar panels and fuel cells so that it can charge during the day and then use the power to keep up during the night.
  • For a small solar radio controlled flight:

    In 1990 Dr. Wolfgang Schaeper from Germany set the world distance record in a closed circuit for a small (Category F5) solar Radio Controlled Flight UAVs. Schaeper's 190km record approved by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) stood unchallenged for more than 17 years, but now a team of nine students from the Technion is developing what they believe might be the next contender.

    That's a long way for a small aircraft, but a full-sized on

  • The website is already suspended. Another notch in the Slashdot gun.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by garcia ( 6573 )
      The website is already suspended. Another notch in the Slashdot gun.

      The server runs on solar power. Unfortunately it's cloudy and their reserve ran out w/all the Slashdot traffic.
  • by mpaque ( 655244 ) on Monday March 12, 2007 @01:46PM (#18320209)
    "... could use these small UAVs, which have a wingspan of only a few meters, to deliver biological agents to its neighbors or if transported, to other countries, including the United States."
    -- Secretary of State Colin Powell in a presentation before the U.N. Security Council, February 5, 2003

    Oh, snap! These are just students trying to set a new endurance record. The purity and essence of our natural... fluids are not at risk. Surely we must issue the recall code immediately.
    • On the other hand, Colin is assuredly correct. In fact, if you built enough of them you wouldn't even need to transport them to get them close. That's part of the allure of solar power. You'd probably lose some due to weather, of course. You actually used to be able to order an R/C predator with GPS, digital camera, and waypoint support, but I can't find it now. It was based on the US Military's Predator UAV.
      • by rcw-work ( 30090 )

        You'd probably lose some due to weather, of course.

        If you can make a UAV that climbs to ~100000 feet in the day and glides down slowly enough that it's still above ~50000 feet at dawn, then you'll avoid all weather (including clouds) except on takeoff and landing. I could see something like that staying up for months or years at a time.

    • by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
      A team has already crossed the Atlantic using a small radio model plane. The one from the story is really much of a threat but yes it could be possible. I am not going to loose a lot of sleep over it right now.
  • Low-cost Satellites (Score:4, Interesting)

    by writerjosh ( 862522 ) on Monday March 12, 2007 @01:49PM (#18320253) Homepage
    This is why solar powered flight is important:

    "Called the Zephyr, it's an aircraft that can fly continuously using nothing but solar power and "low drag aerodynamics". The combination of solar panels on the upper wing surface and rechargeable batteries allows Zephyr to be flown for many weeks and even months. The first flight trial of the Zephyr were conducted recently by QinetiQ in White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico.

    Two aircraft were flown for four and a half and six hours respectively, the maximum flight times permitted under range restrictions. The maximum altitude attained was 27,000 feet above sea level. The ultra-light aircraft is designed to fly at altitudes as high as 132,000 feet (25 miles/40km), above normal commercial air-lanes and most weather.

    QinetiQ believes that stratospheric platforms will rapidly become commercially viable and revolutionize future communications. High altitude platforms of this sort could provide a cheaper alternative to satellites in remote areas and developing countries. They can also enable observation of natural disasters and humanitarian crises."

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/03/solar_powe red_p_2.php [treehugger.com]
    • by nsayer ( 86181 ) * <nsayer@ k f u . c om> on Monday March 12, 2007 @02:15PM (#18320753) Homepage
      Among the advantage to stratospheric platforms over geostationary orbit satellites:

      1. Antenna aiming isolation. The same downlink frequency can be shared by many more users since the downlink antennas could be directional enough (like satellite dishes are) to reject other sources. This is true of geostationary orbit satellites, but the locations can only really be varied along an arc over the equator. Aeronautical platforms can be moved in two dimensions (obviously they really are in 3 dimensions, but the antenna aiming will still simply be azimuth and elevation).

      2. Better geographical isolation. Because they're lower, their horizon area will be much, much smaller. This means their service areas can be more easily limited. This can be done with antenna geometry for geostationary orbit satellites, but in general they can still see almost an entire hemisphere of the earth, so they can still raise the noise floor in otherwise out-of-service areas.

      3. Less delay. Geostationary orbits are far enough away that they introduce a delay that is unacceptable for most duplex applications (such as telephone or Internet traffic). Aeronautical platforms would be close enough to the ground that that delay would likely not be a factor.

      4. More servicable. The cost of launching geostationary payloads means that the payloads must be designed for a long service life, which raises the cost of the payload significantly, as well as the risks. Aeronautical platforms simply have to come down for a landing, be serviced, and then take off and fly back to station.

      5. Less chance of solar outages. Twice a year, there are a few days in a row where geostationary satellites transit the sun. Often, their signal gets drowned out when that happens. Aeronautical platforms stationed outside of the tropics, the problem can be avoided pretty easily (simply place the station to the north of the service area for the Northern hemisphere or to the south of the service area for the Southern hemisphere).
      • by Manhigh ( 148034 )
        Here are the issues I can see with these replacing satellites:

        1. What about night? These things are going to be unable to see the sun for several hours every day, instead of two days a year. You need to size the batteries to be capable of handling that period. That much weight on a solar aircraft would be difficult.

        2. Wear and tear. High altitude aircraft will have to deal with high altitude winds, and have motors running constantly. You can bring them down to service them, but what if they crash. Ho
        • by nsayer ( 86181 ) *
          1. Getting all the ratios correct to build a plane capable of lifting the payload and the batteries required for overnight endurance is part of the challenge, but I believe that "good enough" solutions are already with us or are right around the corner.

          2. Of course satellites need to last for 10 years - there's no way to service them at all. Their design, build and deployment costs are astronomical (heh) because of that. The equivalent costs of aeronautical platforms will be so much lower by comparison that
    • by kabocox ( 199019 )
      Two aircraft were flown for four and a half and six hours respectively, the maximum flight times permitted under range restrictions. The maximum altitude attained was 27,000 feet above sea level. The ultra-light aircraft is designed to fly at altitudes as high as 132,000 feet (25 miles/40km), above normal commercial air-lanes and most weather.

      QinetiQ believes that stratospheric platforms will rapidly become commercially viable and revolutionize future communications. High altitude platforms of this sort cou
  • by sehlat ( 180760 ) on Monday March 12, 2007 @01:51PM (#18320305)

    TFOT recently covered several other ground braking projects developed by students from the faculty of aerospace engineering in the Technion.

    "ground braking"

    Obviously the return and land part of the project needs work.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It will be first tested to guide Israeli bulldozers against Palestinian olive groves.
    • by kike ( 58542 )
      Song About Old Troll
      Troll sat alone on his seat of stone,
      And munched and mumbled a bare old bone;
      For many a year he had gnawed it near,
      For meat was hard to come by.
      Done by! Gum by!
      In a cave in the hills he dwelt alone,
      And meat was hard to come by.
      http://tolkien.cro.net/talesong/troll.html [cro.net]
  • The world record is a unmanned plane that flew for 17 years??? Good luck breaking this one. André
  • I was reading a book about some early aviation firsts, and they had a story about two brothers who set an early record of something like 36 hours aloft. They refuelled by having a truck with jerrycans of gas drive along the runway, while one brother was out on the landing gear grabbing them off the truck and heaving them into the plane. THEN he got to pour them into the tank, which was located in front of the windshield. Even better, was relashing the valve clearances *while the engine was running*. (Wh
    • It was 27 days aloft, not merely 36 hours (recall that Lindberg's solo non-stop unrefueled flight across the Atlantic was 33 hours back in 1927). This record set in 1935 still stands.

      BTM
  • Aerovironment Pathfinder ... which developed into NASA's Centurion. Don't know how this israeli thing looks (something about cpu quota exceeded), but I think Aerovironment's flying wing was/is the right way to go.
  • I'm trying to book an overnight flight on this thing, but I'm not seeing any on the schedule. Oh, wait ...
  • A company called AC Propulsion [acpropulsion.com] has already made a solar powered plane that has flown for longer than two days [acpropulsion.com]. The plane uses regular solar cells and batteries, using the solar cells to charge the batteries so that it can fly on the stored power during the night.

    During the day, the plane used thermals to try to maintain altitude on as little power as possible. Thermals are, of course, derived from solar power as well.

    As battery and solar cell technology continues to improve, this challenge has gone from
  • excellent (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lord Ender ( 156273 ) on Monday March 12, 2007 @03:10PM (#18321691) Homepage
    A hydrogen-filled blimp with docks for solar-powered planes could allow me to reign over those fools on the surface almost indefinitely!
  • Considering the extra surface area, I wonder if solar power could help out this ship: http://www.aeroscraft.com/Index.html [aeroscraft.com].
    --
    Solar power: the past present and future: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html [blogspot.com]
  • This is somehow a better solution than filling a bag with helium? Or even, simply painting a bag black

    http://perso.orange.fr/ballonsolaire/en-index.htm [orange.fr]

     
    • Yes. You need the satellites to be able to move. The winds at high altitudes will normally move these balloons far out of any reasonable range in 1 or 2 days, after which they'd have to be collected, which is stupid (and they might drop into sea etc).

      You need to move around to remain stationary in the air. That's what helium balloons don't do.
  • The "problem" with these "solar powered" drone is that in fact to do most useful things (like being a cellphone base station), they need to have another power source, so these drones are hybrid.

    I guess that if you have 90% of your energy coming from a fuel cell and 10% for solar cell, you're 'solar powered', but these 'solar powered' planes won't be able to stay forever in the air like a blimp would.

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