Scientists Find 'Altruistic' Center of the Brain 223
davidwr writes "A team of researchers at Duke University published a paper linking the brain's posterior superior temporal cortex to altruistic behavior. The BBC also picked up the story. If confirmed this has applications in neurology, psychology, child-rearing, and a host of other domains. From the BBC piece: 'Using brain scans, the US investigators found this region related to a person's real-life unselfish behaviour. The Duke University Medical Center study on 45 volunteers is published in Nature Neuroscience. The participants were asked to disclose how often they engaged in different helping behaviours, such as doing charity work, and were also asked to play a computer game designed to measure altruism.'"
Ok, how do I zap that part. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ok, how do I zap that part. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Best of all however we should make all political candidates demonstrate that THEY aren't selfish bastards.
Re: (Score:2)
Bingo. Since Brave New World by Alex Huxley seems to be no longer required reading in high school (Politicians in that book are "Alpha citizens", Bureaucrats are "Betas", workers are "Gammas", and "Deltas" are outcasts living out in the hinterlands), you captured my meaning exactly. Only altruistic individuals should be allowed to become elected officials, and selfish bastards should be the Deltas,
Re: (Score:2)
Only if you're a con artist or working for yourself. If you're supposed to be a public servant, then it helps to actually serve the public.
Unless everyone in the sample is altruistic, a single rogue can disrupt the process and from a society or organizations perspective, having the altruistic leaders would result in a net negative affect for your group.
Yes, that's the point. If we can link a brain structure to being altruistic, we can us
Re: (Score:2)
Almost, but not quite. In an effort to make us a more gentle society, we shouldn't elect any leaders without an MRI scan on record to confirm that they're altruistic enough. Anybody gaining enough money to be a lobbyist or start a business should also have a similar scan to make sure that they a
Re:Ok, how do I zap that part. (Score:4, Interesting)
Both are interesting, but incomplete, models of communistic governments. The point is the Communism COULD work if you had a way to sort out the most altruistic individuals for committee positions, the next most altruistic individuals for bureaucrats, and keep the greedy away from power or resources that could be used to harm society.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Which is the crucial issue (apparently not yet solved). Perhaps works only in small local authorities (which then have to be wired up in a sophisticated way, maybe as in a nD-honeycomb structure that reconfigures due to requirements). Discussed this for hours+
CC.
Selfish bastards get all the money... (Score:2)
Only if you count "churches" as "charities." (Score:2)
Raises questions (Score:4, Funny)
Much cheaper way to accomplish the same thing:
-Scan Ayn Rand's brain (Peikoff would be a fine subsititute today if you need a living one).
-Compare to an average human's brain.
-Look for the most striking difference.
Re:Raises questions (Score:5, Funny)
I'll let you guys know if I wake up after the surgery to find that I'm altruistic on my left side only. Or maybe I won't care about keeping you informed anymore; I figure it's 50-50.
Re:Raises questions (Score:4, Funny)
I'll let you guys know if I wake up after the surgery to find that I'm altruistic on my left side only.
Heh. The image this conjured was of you giving a homeless person a dollar with your right hand, while simultaneously giving them the finger with your left.
Re:Raises questions (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
You don't even need much of your brain working to be able to wake up and talk to people. It can take a week for your judgment and facilities to come back.
Re:Raises questions (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Wait, are you my ex-girlfriend?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sir, you have found a home here on slashdot.
Re:Raises questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Lets be realistic about how much we can predict (Score:5, Funny)
And tell me what's wrong with throwing a comrade on the grenade to save your own, uhh, nevermind...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt just by playing a game a person can give any sign of whether or not they will throw themselves on a grenade to save a comrade's life five years hence.
Actually, you know the games that they give people to play to test whether video games make people violent? They just used those and reversed the results.
Interesting game idea. Think "Grand Theft Auto" type of thing, where you walk around and have a choice between giving money to homeless person or kicking him, etc. Might be fun--if nothing else, to see how low a score you could get.
Re: (Score:2)
However, I tend to think of my self as an altruistic person and when I play WoW I find I like to help fellow guildmembers, Strangers on the Alliance side, and occasionally even a Horde player as a nice surprise. For me, giving, helping make me feel better whether it is in a game or in real life.
I was going to mention WoW, but since you already did I'll expand on what you said.
With the relative anonymity of an on-line game environment, there is generally less to lose from non-altruistic behavior, and less t
Re: (Score:2)
It's something I would never do in real life, considering I have a wife and children.
Very informative article. (Score:4, Funny)
Tasks requiring the perception of agency activate the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC), particularly in the right hemisphere
Wow, that is one informative article. I can't wait for the countering study that concludes the 'Greed' center of the brain has been found just opposite the posterior superior temporal cortex and there is big fight on the opposite left side of the brain in the soon to be named 'AynRandian degenerative temporal cortex'?
end:sarcasmRe: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But which game... (Score:3, Funny)
Surely one of the CIV series right?
Subjects heard shouting phrases such as... "AAAAHA, Taste my ICBM you Iroquois scum", where marked down!
Thanks, science! (Score:5, Funny)
Duke scientists isolated the protein (Score:2, Insightful)
Sample size == 45? (Score:2, Insightful)
Jesus Christ. I mean, their shoe-size is as likely to correlate to altruism.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm waiting for the other study that will demonstrate that what they have indeed found is that people who lie on surveys to seem to be altruistic, and who pretend to be altruistic in computer games, have more activity in that area of the temporal lobe...
Unfortunately neurophysiology is one of those areas in science where observing the evidence can in fact alter the results... everyone willing to participate i
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And they're able to state this from a sample size of 45?
I'm getting a bit tired of this criticism. It really depends on what they're trying to measure if the sample size is statistically significant. If you were an alien from the planet Zenon, you wouldn't need a large sample size of humans to determine there's two sexes. You would need a far large sample size to find trans-gendered people. Obviously because the two different sexes occour in equal numbers (so a small sample is very likely to contain bot
Ayn Rand lurches from her grave... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Unselfish behavior? (Score:3, Informative)
It's just collectively selfish instead of individually selfish (at least statistically).
Re: (Score:2)
It's adaptive, yes. Just about every aspect of any organism that's made it this far is adaptive. That's not the same thing as "selfish."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think the point that the GP post was trying to make was quite similar to the point Dawkins was making. Gen
Indeed, people like *other* people to be unselfish (Score:2)
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just worth considering the motivation people have for encouraging altruism, heroism, patriotism etc etc.
Re: (Score:2)
The only reason I ever do anything nice for anybody is because it makes me happy to see them happy.
Re: (Score:2)
The only reason I ever do anything nice for anybody is because it makes me happy to see them happy.
From Forbes' coverage [forbes.com]:
People may not perform selfless acts just for an emotional reward, a new brain study suggests.
Instead, they may do good because they're acutely tuned into the needs and actions of others.
"Perhaps altruism did not grow out of a warm-glow feeling of doing good for others, but out of the simple recognition that that thing over there is a person that has intentions and goals. And therefore, I might want to treat them like I might want them to treat myself," explained study author Scott Huettel, an associate professor of psychology at Duke University Medical Center, in Durham, N.C. ... For decades, psychologists and neuroscientists have puzzled over the tendency of humans to engage in altruistic acts -- defined by Huettel's group as acts "that intentionally benefit another organism, incur no direct personal benefit, and sometimes bear a personal cost." [emphasis mine]
In plain English, the part of you responsible for selfish behavior is not the same as the part of you responsible for altruistic behavior. Altruistic people really are helping others to help others rather than to just feel good about themselves or get something in return. I'd recommend reading the entire Forbes article on it, it's a pretty good read.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm perfectly happy with altruism stemming from a wise recognition that you are affected by the people and society around you. It's quite clear a lot of people aren't that wise and we all suffer for it; that they also suffer doesn't make it any more or less moral.
In fact, I'd reject the implied definition of altruism you (and several Slashdot posters) seem to be offering, which seems to be some sort of self-harming action that helps nobody and ca
I want one! (Score:2)
I want a posterior superior temporal cortex!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The target in evolutionary arms races (Score:4, Interesting)
One more domain (Score:4, Funny)
If this can be proven to be accurate, perhaps it can be used on politicians before an election to see just how much good they actually intend to do for the public.
Or would the machine not be able to handle negative values?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
That said... I'm not sure that your statement is really true, I think it really comes down to what they believe in. If someone is kinda-sure they want to shoot me and take my money, I think they're dangerous. If they're convinced that they don't want to do any violence (say like Gandhi) I'm not too concerned, he doesn't seem like a real dangerous fellow.
Re: (Score:2)
Gandhi was actually pretty much a racist, and a potentially violent one at that. Don't believe the white-washed Disney version of history people give you about Gandhi. His views about africans are probably more extreme and hateful than David Duke.
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm [trinicenter.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Ghandi's a bad example. (Score:2)
A better example of your point would be some of the Tibetan Bhuddists - if you REALLY REALLY piss them off, they will douse themselves in gasoline and (carefully, with due consideration for bystanders) IMMOLATE THEMSELVES! Take that, you opressors, guess we showed you what for!
Yeah, I don't worry much about those guys getting out of control.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Heal it? (Score:2, Funny)
from the source (Score:2)
BTW: Is this an altruistic link? <grin>
Re: (Score:2)
Moo (Score:2, Interesting)
The Duke University Medical Center study on 45 volunteers is published in Nature Neuroscience.
45 volunteers?
Firstly, 45 is not enough for a statistical analysis involving brain scans, there is enough multiplicity as it is, there was bound to be *some* congruence. Seriously, they are making predictions from 45 people?!?!
On top of that, they are volunteers?
Umm, in a study on altruism, there would have to be (at least) two separate groups, one which was paid, and one that donated their t
Re: (Score:2)
Good point. And another group should be forced to participate at gunpoint.
Gunpoint Lab Rats (Score:2)
Umm, in a study on altruism, there would have to be (at least) two separate groups, one which was paid, and one that donated their time...
Good point. And another group should be forced to participate at gunpoint.
Back when I attended the Big U, one of the requirements for completing any Psych classes was to have participated in at least one psych study. A humanities minor was required for graduation, and if you picked Psych you had to be a lab rat. Typically this occurr
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Clearly you are unfamiliar with statistics or you'd never make such a ridiculous claim. Firstly, statistical analysis is agnostic about its subject matter. Whether or not its about "brain scans" or predicting the weather has no bearing on what's a good sample size. Secondly, you measure whether or not a sample size is good enough by looking at the statistical significance, not the absolute size of the sample. In an extreme case, if
Re:Moo (Score:5, Insightful)
What on Earth does this mean?
We are social primates, and therefore have evolved a variety of reciprocal-aid mechanisms in our behaviour. We are more likely to show helping behaviour toward our closer kin, but because we also (as a species) practice exogamy (breeding outside our kin group) rather vigorously we have a tendency to show helping behaviour toward anyone or anything that even looks remotely like us.
When raised in sufficiently violent, unloving circumstances that tendency may never be developed, but contra Freud it is not repression of our nature that makes us humane (anymore than feral, asocialized humans behave humanely) but rather a nurturing, loving and secure upbringing.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm going to guess you are not a parent.
My child is the most selfish being I've ever met. Ever since he was an infant he's clearly acted as if the world revolves around him. All hours of the night he would make noise and wake the whole house without even having a clear need. For all I could tell he just found that he was awake and wanted us to be awake too. He's three now and while he's gained the ability to communicate his desires they still mostly revolve around him. Su
Re:Moo (Score:5, Insightful)
45 subjects is actually a very large sample for an imaging study (fMRI is very expensive). Most studies use 12-16 people.
As for the term "volunteers", anyone who participates in research in the U.S. is a volunteer. We cannot and should not force people to participate in research studies. The term volunteer does not mean they were not compensated for their time.
Re: (Score:2)
45 subjects is actually a very large sample for an imaging study (fMRI is very expensive). Most studies use 12-16 people
Your point about the statistical tests is well-taken. But the above quote hasRe: (Score:2)
Could be used to manipulate people (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually...
Sorry Bob... you're such a fucking puss that you're going to be walking around asking how everyone's day is and trying to get money for charity runs and girl scout cookies. We need a ruthless son-of-a-bitch whose going to get shit done. You understand our predicament don't you Bob?
Altruism? Nonsense. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You might be suggesting that people who want to help others receive pleasure from doing so, and in that sense they are really motivated by the expectation of satifaction. But then you'd have to explain *why* helping others produces pleasure... which brings us back to the point of identifying the area of the brain invol
Why should thinking of others be altruistic? (Score:3, Insightful)
Furthermore, in a general sense, helping others is merely promote self interest. Say you are nice to people at the office and help them out whenever possible. When you take these actions there may not be a specific self interest in mind at the moment but you are aware that you are building goodwill toward yourself that may benefit you when you in turn need help.
Re: (Score:2)
No one identifies AS MUCH with the group than they do with their actual selves. (unless they've been brainwashed by a cult or something) So If you sacrifice of yourself for the benefit of the group, it IS altruism, even if you identify also with th
Re: (Score:2)
You bring up a poor example to make your case. Anyone who has been in the military can tell
Re:Why should thinking of others be altruistic?? (Score:2)
Even Ayn Rand ["The Virtue of Selfishness"} said "The better the mind, the longer the range [of planning]".
Predators [noncooperators]mot certainly exist. In a balanced cycle with their prey.
Re: (Score:2)
There really is no question as to whether altruism is a natural thing. It certainly is. The question is how much of it is genetic and how much of it is memetic.
One may argue that memes are not natural--but since they are observed in animals, that's a tough argument to make.
Re: (Score:2)
This is the fundemental flaw in your post. You need to look up the exact definition of altruistic. In order to be altruistic the act must be selfless. Helping others in a manner that is not completely selfless is not altruistic.
Nation x and y form an alliance. Nation x is attacked by nation z and nation y comes to their aid and helps fight off nation z. The aid nation y gave is not altruistic even though it cost them
Just in Results Disputed (Score:2)
hI (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You've obviously misread Ms. Rand (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You've obviously misread Ms. Rand (Score:5, Interesting)
"Nobody respects an altruist, neither in private life nor in international affairs. An altruist is a person who keeps sacrificing himself and his values, which means: sacrificing his friends to his enemies, his allies to his protagonists, his interests to any cry for help, his strength to anyone's weakness, his convictions to anyone's wishes, the truth to any lie, the good to any evil."
"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there's someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master."
"Just as life is an end in itself, so every living human being is an end in himself, not the means to the ends or the welfare of others - and, therefore, man must live for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself."
To that end, I suggest Ayn Rand was a self-serving bitch.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
One thing that is clear is that YOU are responsible for YOUR happiness. If "giving" makes you happy (as it does a lot of people, me included), then there's nothing wrong with sacrificing.
I think the problem Rand has (and libertarians, in general), is when someone tells you that you MUST sacrifice. In other words, I don't mind donating to charity, I do it all the time. I find it reprehensible that the governm
Re: (Score:2)
Some Libertarians think like that. I'm not a libertarian, but I personally I think you should be able to check off what your taxes go to. That way people don't have to pay
Re: (Score:2)
I help run a non-profit organization that sets up computers and related technology to schools, orphanages, medical clinics, and the like in third-world countries.
One of our annual fundraisers is at a science fiction convention in Seattle, and every year there we get at least a couple of them come to our booth and try to explain how we're such terrible people for doing this, and don't we know we're only making them weaker and hurting America and so on.
OK, it's actually
Re: (Score:2)
God I wish I still had mod points. The only flaw in your otherwise acute analysis is that you left out Jewish. They will masturbate to the image of that dirty, smelly Jewish, French socialist that fucked t
Are you sure about that? (Score:2)
I think not!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Only if they're willing to volunteer in order to improve the lot of future generations.