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Mars Space Science

New Mars Discoveries 109

Posted by samzenpus from the the-land-beneath-the-land dept.
sighted writes "The fleet of five active spacecraft examining Mars (in addition to the recently-missing Mars Global Surveyor) have been working overtime. On the heels of last week's finding of possible flows of liquid water, the ESA has announced that an entire hidden landscape exists just beneath the surface of the Red Planet, and NASA has released some really amazing images of layered topography that will yield many clues to the history of this strange world."
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New Mars Discoveries More

New Mars Discoveries

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  • I won't believe it until confirmed (Score:4, Funny)

    by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @06:35PM (#17230604) Homepage Journal
    K'Breel, Speaker for the Council must give his judgement upon this matter.

  • I bet it's caramel. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @06:39PM (#17230652)
    Mmmmm...

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @06:44PM (#17230688)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by PygmySurfer ( 442860 )
      The "space race" ended about thirty years ago.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Really? Who won?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AJWM ( 19027 )
        No, you're thinking of the Moon Race.

        The Space Race is the race to get self-sustaining human habitations (whether something akin to L5 colonies, terraformed planets or moons, or whatever) in space before civilization collapses down here (from either internal or external forces) to the point where we'll never be able to try it again.

        Nobody has won it. Currently we're not even close, and we may even be losing ground.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by bronney ( 638318 )
      Well the way I see it, are we alone isn't that important. You can call it faith on my part much like religion, I already think we're not alone. The practical concern however is my hope in driving this thing. Imagine the land and resources we can exploit on another planet. We're animals! We eat everything and kill off white dolphins! Just imagine what you could do on mars. All the women and all the cattles you can have! RICH!!!

      Do it like the good old days when colonizing the states, send criminals to

  • Odd pictures... (Score:5, Funny)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @06:45PM (#17230704)
    Didn't one of those new pictures show a space marine waving a soul cube on the surface?
    • No, when NASA wants to show us man on Mars, it'll be a better production than DOOM was ;)

    • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by cswiger2005 ( 905744 )
      Michael Valentine Smith isn't really a space marine, he's a duly accredited Envoy from our new Martian overlords.

      The Martians don't really need human marines; you didn't think that asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter happened by accident, do you?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rei ( 128717 )
      No, but earlier pics did show a really nifty natural bridge [planetary.org] from a collapsed lava tube.
  • ...be the first to mention the idea of space creatures living under the surface of Mars. We need to dump money into NASA and send some people out there to hail them.
    • ..be the first to mention the idea of space creatures living under the surface of Mars.

      Space creatures or Martian creatures. Pick one.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Jeremi ( 14640 )
        Space creatures or Martian creatures. Pick one.


        And just where do you think Mars is located? ;^)

        • And just where do you think Mars is located? ;^)

          Pretty much the same place Earth is located, give or take a few million miles.

          I've always wanted to call myself a "space creature"!
  • "have been working overtime" Hmm....so do they like power off the satellites for 16 hours a day normally? What exactly do they mean by "overtime"

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Hmmm... did you consider the fact that orbiters/probes are useless without folks here on Earth to receive and interpret the data? Perhaps they are working overtime?

      Why do so many /.'ers find it necessary to pick apart every post to the point of idiocy?

      • Why do so many /.'ers find it necessary to pick apart every post to the point of idiocy?
        It makes us feel like big men?

    • Re:I didn't know satellites had a schedual (Score:4, Informative)

      by sighted ( 851500 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @07:11PM (#17230918) Homepage
      I tossed off that phrase maybe a little too casually as a figure of speech, but certainly the people on the project have been working overtime. Some background here [uanews.org].

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by camperdave ( 969942 )
      Lots of satellites and probes work overtime. Consider Spirit and Opportunity. They are still running and returning data, even though they are around 950 sols past their expected operational lifetime. The Mars Global Surveyor was supposed to finish it's mission in 2001. Nasa extended the mission four times since then.

  • Surprising! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Klowner ( 145731 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @06:50PM (#17230744) Homepage
    Hidden underground tunnels on mars eh? We need chainsaws, posthaste!

    And the "hidden tunnel" link in the article didn't point to doom 3 screenshots, slashdot impresses yet again.

  • White dolphins discovered in Hellas Basin! (Score:5, Funny)

    by StefanJ ( 88986 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @07:04PM (#17230860) Homepage Journal
    No. Not really. They're gone forever, starved to death and poisoned by pollution.

    But maybe someday after Mars is terraformed* we'll have genetically engineered recreations that have the manufacturer's logo blazed on their flanks who swim along boats and squeak helpful shopping tips at the tourists.

    Stefan

    * By Halliburton, so bring a respirator.
    • I laughed at first when I read that then I wanted to cry a second later when I realized how very likely that exact scenario is.

      When we do begin to explore and colonize Mars we need to keep the profiteering parasitical corporations out of it.

      Please god, let us have a world without greed and advertising.
      • "When we do begin to explore and colonize Mars we need to keep the profiteering parasitical corporations out of it."
        Obviously, because Governments can do it SO MUCH better!
        Waitaminnit....

        • Re:White dolphins discovered in Hellas Basin! (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:42PM (#17241098) Homepage
          You do realize that it's corporations (Boeing, Lockheed, Orbital, etc) who do the bulk of spacecraft design, development, and operation in the US, right? And, for most rockets (obvious exception, the shuttle, which really should have been treated as a research platform, not a workhorse), these corporations have the normal profit motive, as they bear operating costs and compete for launch constracts. Often only the design is subsidized. Sometimes, as in the case of the Pegasus, even the design isn't subsidized.

          It's funny, people viewing corporations as the answer to high launch costs, when it's corporations that currently run the show.

          If what people actually mean is "smaller startups", they should read about the staggering non-success smaller startups have historically had with rocketry.

          That doesn't mean that the business world won't give us "the way forward". SeaLaunch hasn't done half-bad, and I keep an eager eye toward the progress of SpaceX's Falcon. But this isn't "something new". It's just the latest iteration of a long, ongoing process.
      • Corporations are permitted by Law ONLY to earn profit. Nothing more, nothing less.
        A private corp that does charity is illegal in eyes of law and hence would be disbanded.
        If the law is stupid enough to enforce profit-making as the ONLY permitted activity of a private corporation, then we can't blame the corporations for their predatory instincts because they are exactly doing what the law charteted them to do.
        Doing anything beyond this which does NOT make a profit, is illegal in eyes of law and makes the man

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )
          This isn't really true. Most public corporations do have to maximize profits for their shareholders but in the case of a corporation with only one shareholder they can do what ever they want. When Ford got sued for not maximizing profits Henry Ford bought back all the stock and could do whatever he wanted.
          Also if a corporation is founded with the goal of not maximizing profits and makes it clear to prospective stockholders, it would also be legal though they might not be able to sell much stock.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Gablar ( 971731 )

        yep, because the best way to bring down the cost of space exploration is by keeping the corporations out. Corporate greed, together with competition, is the only way to bring down the costs of space exploration, like it or not. Today the corporations run the show, although not directly, but by getting polititians to do their bidding. Competition is non existent in todays government spending.

        What we need is polititians that represent the people, not puppets of the corporations. But the only way way to get

  • Most of this isn't new... (Score:5, Informative)

    by CorSci81 ( 1007499 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @07:05PM (#17230886) Journal
    The idea that the northern hemisphere craters were simply buried is actually a fairly old idea, even though the article makes this sound like a major breakthrough. We've had some radar images suggesting this for some time, I guess it's just now they're starting to get some press. The layered deposits are also well documented, but I do have to admit those are the prettiest pictures I've ever seen of them.

    • It's a fairly old _idea_, but there have been all kinds of ideas. I follow the Mars news fairly closely, not super-closely, and this is the first time I've seen what amounts to proof of buried craters. That's why people are excited, I think. Not because nobody ever had the idea before.

      Likewise with the layered deposits. Yes, those have been found before, but they were on a much smaller scale. These vast, flat, deposits really suggest ocean sedimentation over millions of years. (Suggest. Far from pro

  • just think (Score:5, Insightful)

    by netsfr ( 839855 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @07:17PM (#17230974)
    how mind blowing it would have been if the sub-surface radar showed roads or infrastructure of a previous existance... It would have turned the way funding is for space all around, as well as change text books all over the world.

    Really impressive technology being used here. Kudos to those who make it happen.
    • how mind blowing it would have been if the sub-surface radar showed roads or infrastructure of a previous existance... It would have turned the way funding is for space all around, as well as change text books all over the world.

      I believe it's canals you're thinking of. And cool, gazing intelligence that travels in lighting bolts, etc. But that would still be good for funding!
    • Fundind is one thing, but that would probably mean that 99% of that funding increase would be used to fill the next martian missions with thermonuclear warheads. "it's the only way to be sure", as they said.

    • how mind blowing it would have been if the sub-surface radar showed roads or infrastructure of a previous existance... It would have turned the way funding is for space all around, as well as change text books all over the world.

      Really impressive technology being used here. Kudos to those who make it happen.

      All this crater stuff, that's just what they want you to think. That's just one of their kid's art project in photoshop. The real pictures would really blow your mind! :-P

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dosle ( 794546 )
      I'm curious what this type of imagery would return on say... ancient structures partially buried on earth for example.

  • evidence (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Those underground cave-dwellings are obvious signs of life. But that mountain that is shaped like Colonel Sanders head, was probably part of KFC's early satellite marketing campaign.
  • Want me some Red Princess [libertymeadows.com] ah do! (mild NSFW)
    • Sir, as a fine Southern gentleman, I take affront to your sullying the good name of Dejah Thoris and all her royal kin in such a way as to link to that. I have half a mind to draw my sword and strike you down, but my gentlemanly manners require that I at least give you a chance to defend yourself. Prepare.

      J.C.

  • "working overtime?" gimme a break. spacecraft and robotic devices and test instruments do not have a workday, and are not limited by human weaknesses like the need for sleep, food, and bowel movements. if they work "beyond their expected life", that's a testament to good engineering. but please don't grant these manufactured goods human qualities.
    • "...if they work "beyond their expected life", that's a testament to good engineering. but please don't grant these manufactured goods human qualities."

      Why?
    • The rovers don't operate that autonomously. They constantly need to be given instructions from the ground crew, which could be considered to be working overtime.

    • Re:overtime pay for robot workers? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Cherita Chen ( 936355 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @09:51PM (#17232194) Homepage
      "spacecraft and robotic devices and test instruments do not have a workday, and are not limited by human weaknesses like the need for sleep, food, and bowel movements."

      Not quite true. They need to eat, sleep and shit - just not in the "biological" fashion that we carbon based life-forms do.

      It is well known that;
      A.) The Mars rovers are often limited in the amount of work they can perform due to light availability (food).
      B.) The rovers must also transmit data back to the earth (shit).
      C.) When power is limited due to lack of light, they must cease all science operations (sleep).

      I would say that both of these rovers do in fact have a workday, and that it is much harder than most of the folks here on Earth would care to imagine...

      • How does transmission of data equate to taking a dump? Unless you use Morse code to talk to people in adjacent toilet cubicles.

      • B.) The rovers must also transmit data back to the earth (shit).

        id say its more like giving of heat. Stuff it dose not want and needs to get rid off.

        Sending data back to earth, thats just time/money wasting by the water cooler chit chat
  • the alien home base?

    jks =P

  • Duh (Score:2, Funny)

    by Is0m0rph ( 819726 )
    Everyone knows Martian tunnels lead to releasing the trapped oxygen there. Didn't you see Total Recall?

  • Interesting discovery... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by skelly33 ( 891182 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @01:24AM (#17233228)
    Neat - It makes me wonder how it could have been covered up so well. Letting my imagination run wild... what if Olympus Mons let loose a cataclysmic eruption so powerful that it:

    1) put enough sediment into the atmosphere to cover the entire surface,
    2) put larger rocks into orbit which eventually decayed and came back down to form the rock-strewn surface we are accustomed to seeing, possibly forming some of the ounger crater impact sites, and
    3) blocked out sunlight, killing off any shred of life on the planet at the time of the event

    "How" this could come to pass is the first thing that pops into my mind - no speculation in the article though which I always enjoy hearing from NASA.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Viol8 ( 599362 )
      1 and 3 are possible but I suspect 2 is unlikely , since to shoot out a rock large enough to cause the craters of the size discussed here would not only required far more energy than any volcano could ever produce but if somehow it did it would almost certainly completely destroy the volcano in the process. Its one thing to fire off rocks a few tens of metres in diameter , quite another to fire off mile wide lumps at sub orbital speeds.

  • w00t! (Score:2)

    by salec ( 791463 )
    Mars has "dirtosphere"?

    Now, there's where all the action may take place: on the rock bottom, under the ocean of dust.
    What's next: we'll dig out live macroscopic, big, crawling and wiggling animals that live in the Martian soil near geo...thermal heat sources?

    We need sensitive geo...phones sent up there ASAP to detect if there is any characteristic sounds of moving.

    OK, I need a help here: when word has prefix "geo", should it be substituted if it is applied to other planets?

  • Theres a good article in Sci Am this month (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @04:55AM (#17234078) Homepage
    Scientific American is running an article about how it now looks almost certain that there were large standing bodies of water on Mars in its early history. However it goes on to say that this probably only lasted for a billion years or so before the water froze/evaporated and mars slowly turned into the dusty desert we know today.

    My own belief is that Mars slowly lost its atmosphere due to its low gravity and poor magnetic field and as the air pressure went down it was easier and easier for water to evaporate until at some point the pressure got to the point where the boiling point of water had dropped to below the ambient temperature of the planet and that was the end of the lakes/seas if there were any still around by then. Once in the atmosphere the water was dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen, the H2 escaped and the O2 reacted with whatever was around producing the rusty landscape we see today.

  • With Apologies to Wells (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Digital Vomit ( 891734 ) on Thursday December 14, 2006 @06:30AM (#17234392) Homepage Journal
    No one would have believed in the last years of the twentieth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter. It is possible that the infusoria under the microscope do the same. No one gave a thought to the older worlds of space as sources of martian danger, or thought of them only to dismiss the idea of life upon them as impossible or improbable. It is curious to recall some of the mental habits of those departed days. At most martian men fancied there might be other men upon Earth, perhaps inferior to themselves and ready to welcome a missionary enterprise. Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this planet with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.
  • As much as Hoagland is a loon, he has been predicting all the recent discoveries for like 10 years. And with the recent solar flare activity I am nervously believing in Dames's Killshot. If we committed to a man-on-mars program, I've heard that every dollar spent would add 23 dollars to the economy. The problem is, we went to Iraq instead. (I say we, but I am a proud Canadian)
    • Well, we managed to hit the moon right about when Vietnam was starting, and went back a number of times during the whole thing. Guess we can do more than one thing at a time, no? Maybe, if you're lucky, you won't be forced to pray to Mecca before a ship is ready to smuggle you away from the global caliphate to the only free community of humans left--on mars.

  • Moo (Score:1)

    by Chacham ( 981 )
    hidden landscape

    Of course, to get to the hidden landscape you have to go to the fake water stream, and travel forward one step, then backwards one step, while holding down the acceleration pedal, and jump towards the center of the hole.

  • Does anyone else find it really disturbing that Total Recall might have had it right all along ?!?!?!!?

    Now we just need to Rovers to find the alien control room and start melting the ice.

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