Stardust@Home Lets Public Search Grains of Dust

An anonymous reader writes "In a new project called Stardust@home, UC Berkeley researchers are inviting Internet users to help them search for a few dozen submicroscopic grains of interstellar dust captured by NASA's Stardust spacecraft. Rather than relying on the user's spare PC cycles, though, the system depends on their eyes." From the article: "Though Stardust's main mission was to capture dust from the tail of comet Wild 2 - dust dating from the origins of the solar system some 4.5 billion years ago - it also captured a sprinkling of dust from distant stars, perhaps created in supernova explosions less than 10 million years ago."

Time is money

[PrinceAshitaka]

My computer cycles I could care less about but my time is valuable to me. Are there really that many people out there that A. want to to this AND B. have the time to do this. I am sure there are many people in catagory A and in catagory B. How many people are in both catagories?

Re:Time is money

[germ!nation]

amihotornot, ratemypoo et al. People have *plenty* of time to burn. Welcome to the internet.

Re:Time is money

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people are in both catagories?

At least 100000. See http://clickworkers.arc.nasa.gov/ [nasa.gov]

Re:Time is money

[4D6963]

Mod parent up (way underrated)

I agree, most people out here have time on their hands, just for reading and commetning in Slashdot for example.

Also, i'm in both A and B categories, willing to do this and unemployed. Whether I do that, whether I watch porn, basically..

Re:Time is money

[devonbowen]

AND B. have the time to do this

I doubt there are many people that don't fit in your Category B. Most people consider me crazy-busy and I signed up for it. People I hear claim they have no time usually spend huge chunks of it in front of the tube watching other people do interesting things with theirs.

Devon

Re:Time is money

[hotdiggitydawg]

This has been done before, and people get "paid" for it too: Amazon's Mechanical Turk [mturk.com]

Re:Time is money

[gkhan1]

Yiu're forgetting the all important category C) is able to do it. This is not something everyone can do, you have to be tested first to see if you can be part of the project.

Re:Time is money

[fastgood]

My computer cycles I could care less about but my time is valuable to me.

You gotta turn it into a contest for the smallest, or most distant, or largest [slashdot.org].
And the computer-based program should encompass both fame and fortune [eff.org].

Incorporate it into a screensaver, that a coworker will inevitably hack to be like the 1999
subliminal web page that suddenly pops up an alien after staring intently at a static screen.

Yet here you are posting on Slashdot...

[FatSean]

Your time must not be worth very much money!

I would, but why not have a computer do it?

[iamlucky13]

I think I'm game to scan through a few images out of curiousity, at least, which is probably what they're banking on. I admit I've got a pretty good chance of forgetting about it though, because the probe hasn't even landed yet, and after it does, it will take months I'm sure before they have the pictures online.

Reading the article, it sounds like they're expecting the interstellar dust to be distinguishable from the comet dust because of its speed. The comet dust is supposed to hit the aerogel and stop

Re: Stardust@Home Lets Public Search Grains of Dus

[Poorcku]

YA RLY!

Is it just me...

[Anonymous Coward]

...or is distributed computing itself being overdistributed? If they keep it up, everyone will be running a completely unique @home program by themselves, defeating the entire purpose. :P

Fingers crossed

[LiquidCoooled]

Hopefully this landing won't be another cockup like the Genesis failure [bbc.co.uk] or we will be detecting grains of sand from the desert.

Re:Fingers crossed

[FalconZero]

Which reminds me of a closely related project Sawdust@home where users spend hours looking through pictures of sawdust for signs of life.

Re:Fingers crossed

[m.h.2]

Or that other project "ReligiousIcons@home" where people find the likeness of religious figures in everyday objects like toast, squashed insects, pies, foot fungus, and excrement.

Re:Fingers crossed

[LanMan04]

I disagree. Project Genesis [wikipedia.org] was a smashing success!

Many eyes

[spge]

If people are prepared to spot themselves on Google Earth [theregister.co.uk], as well as other things [theregister.co.uk], there's no reason why they won't look for specks of stardust.

Re:Many eyes

[slowbad]

How about having eyeballs quickly scanning 33 random rows of videos [google.com]
to find the 0.05% of porn in the Google video library?

NASA have already used internet users' eyeballs

[Trisha-Beth]

Admittedly the search was for larger objects on Mars [nasa.gov] than the tiny flecks of space stuff from this mission.

Site link

[gkhan1]

for those of you to lazy to read the entire thing, here is a link to the website http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ [berkeley.edu]

User Error?

[Voltageaav]

Useing the mass public for something like this seems risky. For instance, right now I'm so tired I'm seeing stars and this thing isn't even on my computer.

Re:User Error?

[Voltageaav]

Oh, sorry. Self, RTFA! If you can keep your eyes open much longer that is.

Dust... Obliguraty little britian quote

[rf0]

Marjorie Dawes: Dust. Anybody? No? High in fat, low in fat? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. It's actually very low in fat. You can have as much dust as you like.

Re:Dust... Obliguraty little britian quote

[mysticwhiskey]

Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no... I'm so totally not obligurated to answer that question, like?

Re:Dust... Obliguraty little britian quote

[shudde]

Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no... I'm so totally not obligurated to answer that question, like?

Considering his email address, there's something I'm more shocked by in that subject line.

Re:Dust... Obliguraty little britian quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Computer says: No

Re:Dust... Obliguraty little britian quote

[MooUK]

That quote is even better when said wandering around a quarry discussing the effects of dust.

At least, most of an EnvSci class of ~30 laughed.

Image processing/pattern recognition?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wouldn't they use image processing or pattern recognition techniques to do this? I couldn't find anything about this in the article, but i'm sure that if humans are able to detect specks of dust, they can also train a pattern recognizer to do the same, if not better.

Re:Image processing/pattern recognition?

[SSonnentag]

I work with digital video images. People have been trying for years, if not decades, to write software that can mimic the capabilities of the human eye. Usually this software is needed for auto tracking and scoring objects in the field of view. Some limited success has been achieved, but even the best software needs a human to make the initial detection. The pattern recognition capabilities of the human eye are absolutely phenomenal. I doubt computer software will ever be able to replace us in this are

Re:Image processing/pattern recognition?

[4D6963]

"The pattern recognition capabilities of the human eye are absolutely phenomenal." As a matter of a detail, it's not the capabilities of the human eye that are phenomenal, but the human's brain, in other words, the humans intelligence. Correlation and such techniques are limited to, in this case, locating, something quite precise. Such things as dusts or craters are too changing, and can look too different to detect them without any intelligence. However i really wonder what these dusts must look like so t

Re:Image processing/pattern recognition?

[TopherC]

I wondered this same thing. The story reminded me of the way particle physics was done in the 60's with bubble chambers and photographs.

These days, of course, it's all done with discreet detector components and complex tracking algorithms. Nobody wants to sift through billions of pictures and carefully measure the curvatures of dozens of tracks per picture. (Also modern tracking chambers don't perturb the particle as much and allow for other follow-up detectors such as calorimeters or Cerenkov emmision d

Why not use people to train the machine?

[freejamesbrown]

Perhaps user feedback helps the pattern matching algorithm learn?

Do we know?
m.

Re:Image processing/pattern recognition?

[Amiroi]

The reason they don't use image recognition software is that it won't work in this case. In order to use this kind of software to work, they would need to "teach" it what particle track looks like, using existing particle tracks. But here's the problem: particles like this have never been collected, so nobody knows exactly what the tracks will look like! The sample images that they're using to train users are approximations, created by particle accellerators shooting particles into aerogel. This is close e

International Stardust Registry

[aapold]

The International Stardust Registry gift package is now available for a reasonable fee. It includes a beautiful 12" x 16" parchment certificate, available framed or unframed, with the name of your choice, dedication date, and coordinates of the particle of stardust. You'll also receive an informative booklet with details on the computer user who described your particle of stardust.

What better gift for a loved one or friend than a particle of stardust named in their honor? Note - we have been asked that no further particles be named "Ziggy".

Re:International Stardust Registry

[kf8vn]

And... Your gift will be recorded at the US Copyright Office, in book form

Re:International Stardust Registry

[twilight30]

'Cause you know, 'Music sounds better with you', right?

Not for me

[cffrost]

Is UCB going to distribute air filters to participants?

My machines process enough dust as it is. Dust-analysis in addition to dust-processing sounds to me like a high-risk task combination.

If you really want to buy it, EBAY

[killa62]

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40& satitle=aerogel+NASA [ebay.com]

The Missing Link

[squoozer]

The Stardust@Home Project [berkeley.edu] where you can pre-register and find out more.

Using porn sites

[Frans Faase]

Maybe they could set up a porn-site where you have to 'pay' by judging an image. It seems that this technique is used a lot by cyber-criminals for surpassing the "human-only" test that are used during registration to prevent robots from registering. These test consist of text messages that are easy to read by humans but not by computers. It is a very smart idea to use humans (horny men, in this case) for performing a simple "computational" task.

I wonder if this idea can be extended. Using humans to perform computational tasks sounds to be a very interesting business model.

Re:Using porn sites

[cfx666]

I wonder if this idea can be extended. Using humans to perform computational tasks sounds to be a very interesting business model.

Well then...
1. Go To http://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome [mturk.com]
2. Repeat step one a thousend times
3. Repeat step twho a thousend times
4. Finally *PROFIT*

Cfx

Couldnt a computer do this better ?

[bxbaser]

if a human can recognize the trails shouldnt a computer be able to ?
The article didnt mention any reason why a computer would not be able to do this.
does anyone know anything more about this.

makes me wonder is this is some sort of trial to test a distributed voulenteer workforce and they needed something interesting to get participants.

Re:Couldnt a computer do this better ?

[Goffee71]

So they want people who have been staring at screens filled with code/porn/FPS action for years to concentrate on detailed images and try and spot little trails. I hope everyone's had their eyes tested recently! Squint, squint

Re:Couldnt a computer do this better ?

[Vo0k]

They look just like railgun blasts in the far end of the arena. We should be pretty good at spotting them.

Re:Couldnt a computer do this better ?

[joto]

I thought of the same thing. But I guess we'll have to wait untill the first scanned images show up. Then you can try making a program to do it. If it works well, you should rank pretty well at stardust@home...

If I discover a particle...

[BHennessy]

...will they name it after me?

Re:If I discover a particle...

[luder]

Well, you and the other discoverers get to name it, so you might get a chance to "convince" them to name it after you.

from the article:

"If at least two of the four volunteers viewing each image report a track, that image will be fed to 100 more volunteers for verification. If at least 20 of these report a track, UC Berkeley undergraduates who are expert at spotting dust grain tracks will confirm the identification. Eventually, the grain will be extracted for analysis. Discoverers will get to name their d

Wait! Maybe project's goal is gonna change...

[bibi-pov]

From TFWS : 15 Jan 2006 : Stardust recovery

So the probe isn't recovered yet and if it crashes, all we're gonna search for is the probe in the dust, right ?

NASA graphical page for Stardust location

[psiXaos]

Where is Stardust now? [nasa.gov]

sandgrains@home

[mixenmaxen]

We will shortly be conducting a scientific experiment to locate particularly beautiful sandgrains on the beach of Copenhagen. A powerful automated microscope will comb the beach taking pictures, and anyone with a PC can join the effort to locate the most ornate and beautiful sandgrain. Participants that locate the most beautiful sandgrains will of course be eligible to name them.

My God, its full of stars

[digitaldc]

Discoverers will get to name their dust grains.

Suggested names: Dusty, Sandy, Cindy, Sparky, Eartha, Ashley, Ashton, and Pierce

In a different exciting development...

[lxs]

I'm launching "cleaning@home" where users get the thrilling opportunity to keep my house clean. Users only have to show up at my door where they can aquire the "bucket-n-mop" application which effectively harnesses their spare "work-cycles".

This morning I was quoted as saying "This is a great new field for distributed applications. - careful the floor is still wet!"

Re:In a different exciting development...

[kesuki]

Old news, Tom sawyer patented distributed work over a century ago. His idea was slighly superior however in that people Paid him money to experience first hand the thrills of using their idle work-cycles.

So i'm afraid you owe old tom sawyer a good deal of royalties for infringing on his patented business models. Guess you shoulda charged people to show up at your door and clean your house for you.

Re:In a different exciting development...

[Da_Biz]

I'm launching "cleaning@home"

Seriously, this '@home' moniker is starting to get lame and hackneyed.

That noted, I'm wondering if the iClean 06 suite comes with your service, including iBucket and iMop, as well as a bottle of iSol?

a friend has found ten asteroids

[peter303]

I have a compsci friend who is a fairly dilligent amateur astronomer. He gets to name them.

@Home?

[njyoder]

Why did they have to name it @Home? All the other projects refer to distributed computing at home. This refers to distributed human work, so it should get a different suffix. Something related to clickworkers, mechanical turk or whatever would do fine.

I should probably point out that the project doesn't actually start until March 1st. You can preregister now though. What's interesting is that this also has tests you need to pass to be able to participate. This is different from NASA's clickworkers pro

Re:NASA is mum about the sensors

[Kiryat Malachi]

NASA PAO, from personal experience having worked there, doesn't talk to non-press. And non PAO don't talk to anyone they don't know.

King of all Cosmos

[MooseTick]

This wouldn't even be necessary if the King of all Cosmos didn't get drunk and make all the stars burn out. I don't see why we need to be burdened with finding all the stardust when he was the one who messed it up. At the least he could get his son the prince to take care of it.

Green speckles...

[thrill12]

I have signed up to participate, but I wonder what I will do when I see a green speckle forming on an image and slowly increasing in size !?
I hope they didn't name the project "Project Scoop [1000misspenthours.com]" internally...

Re:Green speckles...

[rah1420]

I wonder what I will do when I see a green speckle forming on an image

Start drinking Sterno. Rapidly. :)

unfortunately, dust isn't exciting (to most)

[potus98]

It's just not the same to say "WOW! I helped find a spec of dust!" instead of "WOW! I helped find an advanced civilation in another galaxy!"

Part of the attraction for some of the distributed computing projects is that those who donate their time get a sense that they are helping to solve a really big, important challenge. I'm not saying it's scientifically sound to make research decisions based on flair, but when it comes to getting folks to donate their resources (cycles, time, eyes, tax dollars) to a ca

That old question from college...

[FenwayFrank]

So if we hook this up with the SETI@home program [berkeley.edu], could we look for intelligent life in the universe that's inside the speck of dust? "Beam me up, Scotty: there's no intelligent life down here."

I've seen this

[Talinom]

This game is available at my local game shop. "Let's Count Sand," "Bean Farmer, Extreme" and "Let's Wait in Line" are but a few other equally engrossing titles at the place.

Personally I cannot wait for the upcoming game "Nada 3."

I know where it is...

[GoatMonkey2112]

the Stardust is in Vegas you morons!!

I'm glad I was watching NASA TV

[devehf]

Duxbury was wearing a flightsuit on NASA TV after re-entry. Nice "Mission Accomplished" refernece.