Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Space News

Voyager 1 Sends Messages from the Edge 287

dalmozian writes "NASA's Latest News about the Voyager 1 is being run on Sci-Tech. The Voyager has passed into the border region at the edge of the solar system and now is sending back information about this never-before-explored area, say scientists at the University of Maryland. From the article: 'Voyager 1 and its twin spacecraft Voyager 2 are now part of a NASA Interstellar Mission to explore the outermost edge of the sun's domain and beyond. Both Voyagers are capable of returning scientific data from a full range of instruments, with adequate electrical power and attitude control propellant to keep operating until 2020.'" The proof of crossing the termination shock was covered earlier this year but now we can see the actual data.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Voyager 1 Sends Messages from the Edge

Comments Filter:
  • Wow. (Score:5, Funny)

    by doxology ( 636469 ) <cozzyd@[ ].edu ['mit' in gap]> on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:14PM (#13653223) Homepage
    Those roaming charges must be astronomical!
  • Top 10 List (Score:5, Funny)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaiBLUEl.com minus berry> on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:14PM (#13653234) Homepage Journal
    My attempt at humor. (Stand back.)

    You might be an astrophysicist if:

    10. You only refer to the ninth planet as "Pluto-Charon"
    9. You constantly correct everyone that Pluto-Charon is sometimes the eighth planet.
    8. You've throttled someone for joking about "The Borg" when you mentioned Wolf 359.
    7. You are of the opinion that there are only 8 planets in the solar system.
    6. You get booted out of the family reunion for constantly correcting "scientific" conversations.
    5. You think that the slowdown of the Pioneer Space Probe is a more important mystery than the Pyramids.
    4. The last JPL probe burst at least 10 of your pet theories.
    3. You punched Neil Armstrong for "contaminating" the moon with human presence.
    2. You passed out before Neil's return punch landed.

    And the number one way to tell you're an astrophysicist is...

    1. You hold your breath in awe as a probe sends back data on inky blackness.

    Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week! (Ok, ok. So the rest of the gags all sprung out of the number one "joke". Try not to groan too much.) :-P
    • Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:24PM (#13653317)
      5. You think that the slowdown of the Pioneer Space Probe is a more important mystery than the Pyramids.
      Mystery no more? [lanl.gov]
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Well, that's 30 minutes of your life you'll never get back.
    • Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Insightful)

      by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:32PM (#13653375) Homepage
      Not to hijak the thread too much, but what "mystery of the pyramids"? People built the largest stone structures they could using the most stable shape they could find. Where's the mystery? And it's not even like they got them right the first time. They had at least one pyramid colapse because the angle was too steep, hence the resulting "bent pyramid" where they changed angles half-way up. And they started with a much simpler design of a series of stepped platforms on top of each other. It's not that hard to think that an engineer looked at that and thought "Hey! I bet we could add sloped sides to that and it would look really cool!" and acted on it.

      The only "mystery" is people being unwilling to understand the sheer number of men it took to build them. No one questions how the Great Wall of China was built, and it is a much more impressive engineering feat than the pyramids.
      • Dude. It's a joke. Relax.

        The "mystery of the pyramids" if you must know, is how they got the blocks in place. While there's a lot of hyperbole stating that "we can't even lift that much weight today!" (Yes, yes we can.) the truth of the matter is that we just can't figure out how they moved 3 ton blocks without the invention of the wheel.

        One of the more interesting suggestions was that they used kites to lift the blocks, but my own feeling is that the historical record is simply incomplete on the technology
        • I'm not jumping your ass. I'm just venting my frustration that so many people (some of them even post here) beleive that there is some grand mystery to the Pyramids. Like the shape has some magical property or that they were influenced by aliens. People assume that people could not have been smart enough to build them, which is a laughable idea when you look at the things we build today.

          And you are right, the only real "mystery" is the exact methods they used to move the blocks. But there is no doubt that
          • I'm just venting my frustration that so many people (some of them even post here) beleive that there is some grand mystery to the Pyramids.

            People also think we didn't land on the moon, and that the alien autopsy was a government cover-up. Don't let them get under your skin. :-)
          • Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)

            by hazem ( 472289 )
            Actually, another mystery has to do with who actually built them and when. Many Egyptologists claim they were made around 5000 years. But a geologist, Robert Schoch (and others) noticed while visiting the Giza plateau that some of the erosion was water-erosion rather than wind. I believe records show that there has not been that much water on plateau in the last 5000 years. In fact I *think* the evidence is that water at that level and quantity was not on the plateau since at least 10,000 years.

            So, if t
            • Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Interesting)

              by deesine ( 722173 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @05:25PM (#13654231)

              For being a site for nerds, I'm surprised that only you and I have heard of Dr. Schoch's findings and his subsequent run-ins with prominent Egyptologists.

              For those unfamiliar with this man and his claims, go here [robertschoch.net].

              Indeed, there is more mystery to the great pyramids than "how did they put such large stones in place?". Check it out.
        • To actually lighten the mystery a little, only the outer blocks and casing blocks are large (3 ton), the internal structure is mostly made up of blocks 1 ton or less in weight. Since the vast majority of the blocks were cut on site from the local stone quarries, they wouldnt even hve had to cart them far.
        • Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Informative)

          the truth of the matter is that we just can't figure out how they moved 3 ton blocks without the invention of the wheel.

          Actually, they've solved that one. There were a lot of lemon-slice shaped bits lying around the sites that nobody had understood the purpose of, until an archaeologist noted that if you bind them to the sides of the block, they turn the whole thing into a sort of wheel shape. Draw a circle, then a square inside it with the corners touching the rim. Those four round sections you find lyi

      • Okay, but why? (Score:3, Interesting)

        The real mystery is more of an economic-political one. Why did such a large number of people essentially devote their lives to building monuments? How was it paid for? Did the pyramids possibly have some redeeming purpose other than as religious symbols? Why are pyramids on my money? How could leaders who have nothing better to spend money on than worthless make-work projects stay in power for so long?
    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:37PM (#13653416) Homepage
      8.5: You know that Charon was intended to be pronounced "Sharon"
    • 7. You are of the opinion that there are only 8 planets in the solar system.

      What does this refer to? Do some astronomers think one of the planets is technically a comet or something?
      • Kuiper belt (Score:2, Informative)

        by Pchelka ( 805036 )
        There has been controversy over Pluto's status as a planet for several years. Many scientists now believe that Pluto should be more properly classified as the largest Kuiper Belt Object [hawaii.edu] ever found. This is due to Pluto's size, its unusual composition, and odd orbit. Pluto's orbit is actually sort of like that of a Kuiper Belt object. Some comets do come from the Kuiper Belt, but I don't think people would actually classify Pluto as a comet because its orbit never takes it close enough to the Sun for Plu
      • Well, we know that you're not an astrophysicist. :-P

        Do a little reading [wikipedia.org] on Pluto, and you should understand. There's a huge debate about the whole "is it a planet, is it not a planet, it's just too small, but then what is a continent", etc.
        • OK, but before I asked I didn't even know which planet someone might argue wasn't a planet. I had guessed that it was probably either Pluto, Mercury, Earth, or somehow had something to do with the asteroid belt.
    • 10. You only refer to the ninth planet as "Pluto-Charon"
      9. You constantly correct everyone that Pluto-Charon is sometimes the eighth planet.


      What, no complaints that they're really just a KBOs [wikipedia.org] and not a planet/moon combination?
    • Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kyle90 ( 827345 )
      Isn't the Earth-Moon system also technically a binary planet? And in that case, shouldn't we be referring to the third planet as "Earth-Moon" (or even more appropriately, "Terra-Luna")?
      • Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Informative)

        by jc42 ( 318812 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @07:51PM (#13655180) Homepage Journal
        Isn't the Earth-Moon system also technically a binary planet?

        Yeah, some astronomers have suggested that. The problem is, as explained in an adjacent article, the term "planet" has never actually had a proper astronomical definition. There's an IAU panel working now to settle the terminological debate. The current proposal is that "planet" by itself be delisted as an astronomical term. They suggest that a modifier be required before "planet".

        Part of the debate is that there's a significant crowd that objects to classification terms that depend on things that are not properties of the object. Or, at least, we should make a strict distinction between terms that describe an object, and terms that describe its relationship to other objects.

        This would mean, for example, that the question of whether Luna and Titan are planets or moons would be answered "Yes." They are planets that are orbiting another planet as moons. But others insists that they won't allow something to be both a planet and a moon.

        The Earth-Luna pair is an interesting case, because it's somewhat borderline. The common center of gravity is inside the Earth, but close to the surface. Another interesting bit of trivia is that the Lunar path around the Sun is everywhere convex (relative to the Sun) This means that it's more accurate to describe Earth-Luna as a pair that share an orbit around their common primary, rather than one orbiting the other.

        But it's all rather silly, because there's no agreed-on definition of "planet". The term just refers to a historical list that is looking less and less relevant with time.

        Anyway, stay tuned. Maybe the IAU will settle the matter, at least for those of us who consider their opinion important. Most likely, they'll just discard the term. If they do define it as an isolated term, the result will be a rewriting of the list of planets in the Solar System, as the current list is starting to look somewhat inappropriate.

        It's too bad that the universe isn't cooperative enough to fit into a classification scheme that someone invented a few centuries back.

  • by supe ( 163410 ) * on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:17PM (#13653254) Journal
    the neutral zone and I'm frightened!
  • by barawn ( 25691 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:21PM (#13653294) Homepage
    I actually got to see this data presented at a cosmic ray conference this summer. There are a few things you have to realize:

    • This is the only astronomical shock we are able to study closely
    • There are a lot of things we don't understand about shocks
    • Voyager 2 is still working, with better instruments, and will reach the termination shock early
    • We're seeing things we never, never expected


    For instance, on the last bit, we expected to see cosmic rays from the termination shock, because shocks accelerate particles. We see them. But they don't appear to be coming from the shock. They're coming from somewhere else that we don't know. We see another set of cosmic rays (with a different spectrum) that we don't understand at all - we just call them "anomalous cosmic rays."

    Also, inside the heliosphere, Voyager 1 kept crossing magnetic domains (so a needle on a compass would swing back and forth) periodically. It was expected after the shock that those domain switches would keep happening, much much faster. That didn't happen. In fact, the domain switches stopped. We don't understand why. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

    This is our only probe and our only example of a large astronomical shock. It's full of information about how the Universe produces such violent outbursts like supernovae, or gamma ray bursts. We need to keep studying this.
    • Let me be the first to say, that is some excellent information, and is far more informative than the original story. Please wrangle Slashdot into posting a story if you hear any more.
      • Well, I can point you to the rapporteur talk when it goes up, but unfortunately, the conference was very poorly organized (it was in Pune, India - right by Mumbai, one day after the flooding - so that might explain some of it, although Pune wasn't really hit hard) and so I have no idea when it'll be up.

        Also, a lot of it is very technical - although really, it's just demonstrating that we don't understand how wimpy shocks work, much less strong shocks. The anomalous cosmic rays were a good example of "who or
      • It also might help if I hadn't screwed up "anomalous cosmic rays" and "termination shock particles". In my own defense, it's their freaking fault for using ACRs for cosmic rays that we understand that come from the termination shock, and TSPs for particles that don't actually come from the termination shock.
    • by swb ( 14022 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:36PM (#13653412)
      I'm not a scientist, and it seems weird to me that they would stop spending money on something that still works and gone someplace nothing else has. It just seems wasteful. And it's not like they can justify it by saying they'll have a replacement there tomorrow, either, since they won't.

      I also thought it was weird that they had to authorize more spending when the rovers were still working past their estimated useful life. You've got a remote control car on fucking Mars that still works and somebody wants to just switch it off? It reminds me of rich kids who throw out good toys simply because they're bored with them.

      I guess the space program has become just like any other corporate entity -- if it can't show glossy, short-term results that look good in :15 on the evening news, it's "not viable." Yay. Another triumph of modern civilization.
      • by Mr. Underbridge ( 666784 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:56PM (#13653569)
        I also thought it was weird that they had to authorize more spending when the rovers were still working past their estimated useful life. You've got a remote control car on fucking Mars that still works and somebody wants to just switch it off? It reminds me of rich kids who throw out good toys simply because they're bored with them.

        Ya gotta understand how government works. It's not that someone was actively trying to get these projects defunded - it's just that there was no money allocated for that, since no one anticipated they'd still be working. And since all government work has to be charged to specific accounts, someone would have had to redo that, or else the project would have had no way to spend any money.

        In other words, this is a matter of bureaucracy, not malignance.

      • The point is called 'budgeting'.

        You make an educated (hopefully) guess as to how long your 'rover on fscking Mars' will be operating.
        You figure how much it costs to run the rover and it's support systems for that time.
        You (hopefully) add in a percentage increase in case it runs longer.

        However, you don't budget double or more of educated guess on duration, just not realistic. So after the expected time frame the money is being used somewhere else and you need to apply for a reallocation to continu
      • by Pchelka ( 805036 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @04:45PM (#13653893)
        I was not involved in the decision to cancel funding for Voyager, but I have had some involvement in the process that NASA uses to review missions and decide which spacecraft operations to keep funding. I'm relatively low on the totem pole, so don't blame me if you don't like the funding decisions NASA makes. I don't always like them either!

        I suspect that some of the issues considered were the numbers of new publications from Voyager data compared to the more recent missions, the status of Voyager's instruments, and the ability of our ground stations to pick up signals from the spacecraft. These issues come up with any older NASA mission and are not unique to Voyager.

        I agree that the data from Voyager about the termination shock are important - this was one of the reasons why funding to operate Voyager has continued as long as it has. However, there aren't really a whole lot of data from the termination shock, so a relatively small group of people are studying this data. This means a lower science return for the money spent, at least in terms of the numbers of papers published using new Voyager data. Some of the more recent unmanned spacecraft are also in danger of being cut, and there are still hundreds of scientists around the world working on data from these missions.

        While it is true that Voyager is providing a unique data set, the data from this spacecraft are from older instruments that may not be running at their optimal capacity. We have missions with newer, far superior instruments studying other regions of our solar system right now. So which does NASA choose to keep operating - the older spacecraft with limited capabilities, or the newer missions with greater potential for science? When you look at it this way, it doesn't seem quite so bad to cut funding for Voyager, even though the recent discoveries from Voyager have been very newsworthy.

        One of the other posts claimed that the termination shock is the only astrophysical shock we can study so we need to keep funding Voyager. It isn't entirely true that the termination shock between our heliosphere and the interstellar wind is the ONLY astrophysical shock we can study. A shock in a space plasma is a shock no matter where it is, and they all are pretty similar. The same physical processes happen in coronal mass ejections from the Sun, at the Earth's bow shock, at the bow shocks of Saturn and Jupiter, and near the heliosphere's termination shock. The main differences between these shocks are the magnetic field strengths and the scale sizes of the shocks. Other than that, the physics is pretty much the same. So NASA has to make a choice - spend the money to support research on all of these other things, or spend it to keep an aging spacecraft going to study just one region of space.

        Don't get me wrong - I'm sad to see the Voyager mission winding down. It
        would be great to see more discoveries from beyond the boundaries of our solar system. Unfortunately, we can't keep Voyager going forever. We just have to leave some discoveries for future generations.
        • by Tim Doran ( 910 ) <timmydoran@@@rogers...com> on Monday September 26, 2005 @05:33PM (#13654307)
          Don't get me wrong - I'm sad to see the Voyager mission winding down. It would be great to see more discoveries from beyond the boundaries of our solar system. Unfortunately, we can't keep Voyager going forever. We just have to leave some discoveries for future generations.

          I suspect that reversing a small fraction of the recent tax cuts for the wealthy could fund Voyager for a long, long time. Or heck, cancel the Alaska "Bridge to Nowhere" [pacificviews.org]. This isn't a matter of "we can't", it's a matter of "we choose not to".

        • by barawn ( 25691 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @09:57PM (#13655784) Homepage
          One of the other posts claimed that the termination shock is the only astrophysical shock we can study so we need to keep funding Voyager. It isn't entirely true that the termination shock between our heliosphere and the interstellar wind is the ONLY astrophysical shock we can study. A shock in a space plasma is a shock no matter where it is, and they all are pretty similar.

          No. Absolutely not. The termination shock is huge. It's something like ~150-200 AU across the heliosphere. We have no idea what the structure of a shock like that is. I said it's the only astrophysical shock we can study, and I stand by that - it's the only astrophysical scale shock we can study. CMEs are far too small.

          The fact that we're seeing things we completely didn't expect should tell you that. We do not understand the acceleration of particles at a shock. Coronal mass ejections happen in a few seconds. The termination shock has existed for millions of years. These are very different phenomena.

          Cancelling the funding for Voyager right now is simply idiotic. We just found out that a lot of assumptions we had about the termination shock are wrong, and there's another probe heading there right now!, with more instruments! In terms of science per dollar, there is no better bet right now than funding Voyager.
    • by nerdygeek ( 242847 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:41PM (#13653449)
      Anomalous cosmic rays are particles accelerated at the termination shock. They are anomalous inasmuch as they have a different spectrum to the incredibly high energy cosmic rays that come from outside of the solar system. No-one knew what caused these particles originally so they were labelled "anomalous". In fact the unrolling of the spectrum of the ACRs was critical evidence that we had reached the TS. And I'm not sure what you mean when you say the energetic particles are "coming from somewhere else that we don't know"?

      Whilst there's lots about the TS that is suprising and exciting and that we don't understand, it is not quite as mysterious as barawn makes out.

      As for Voyager 2 - it has a fully working plasma instrument that will give direct measurements of the plasma temperature, density, pressure, flow speed and so on, something we didn't have for V1. Is was the lack of proper plasma measurements that led to some teams claming V1 had crossed the TS and then recanting these claims.
      • They are anomalous inasmuch as they have a different spectrum to the incredibly high energy cosmic rays that come from outside of the solar system.

        Wait, I mixed up the ACRs and the TSPs, didn't I? Whoops.

        In fact the unrolling of the spectrum of the ACRs was critical evidence that we had reached the TS.

        Yup, I think I mixed up the termination shock particles and the anomalous cosmic rays. I thought it was the TSPs that were seen to unroll, but the ACRs didn't, but now I think it's the other way around. It's i
      • Hey, wait! I'm right! The ACRs do not come from the shock itself. They didn't unroll at the termination shock - see Ed Stone's Science paper here [sciencemag.org]. Quoth I:

        However, in contradiction to many predictions, the intensity of anomalous cosmic ray (ACR) helium did not peak at the shock, indicating that the ACR source is not in the shock region local to Voyager 1.

  • The carbon units will now provide V'ger the required information. V'ger travels to the third planet to find the Creator. V'ger and the Creator will become One.
  • by AdamBlom ( 798285 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:22PM (#13653301) Homepage
    As mentioned [slashdot.org] on Slashdot in April of this year, NASA is planning to terminate funding to the Voyager programs. SpaceDaily has an article [spacedaily.com] from earlier this year that says that funding is not available for the seven older missions (Voyager, Ulysses, Polar, Wind, Geotail, FAST and TRACE) beyond the end of NASA's fiscal year, which ends in October. Given the fact that Voyager only costs $4.1M a year, hopefully someone will realize that it's not really an effective cost saving measure before they pull the plug!
    • by Karma_fucker_sucker ( 898393 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:29PM (#13653348)
      Here's another article about the funding cut. [washingtonpost.com]

      I just don't get it. Multi-billion dollar projects and/or pork just sail through Congress, but something that's actually producing some unique and useful (redundant?) data has to struggle for a few million dollars.

      Must...stop...now...rant...coming...on...and...p olitical...aaarrrrgggg!

    • by FlynnMP3 ( 33498 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:44PM (#13653476)
      To think that something manmade is at the outer limits or our solar system boggles the mind! Instellar distances are almost unfathomable, but now we have a small inkling of what they are. It would be great to get empirical data from that region.

      I am saddened to the extreme that useful, scientifically important research is going to be cancelled because of lack of funds. What makes this even worse is is takes so long to get out there, and these are the only 2 satellites that are close. Another opportunity won't come for decades!

      I am sure each research project has their own concerns and ideals, but COME ON! Can't this at least count for something?!? Just a little bit more to count in it's favor?

      *sigh*
      Now I am depressed.
    • by standards ( 461431 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:45PM (#13653486)
      Given the fact that Voyager only costs $4.1M a year, hopefully someone will realize that it's not really an effective cost saving measure before they pull the plug!

      Whoa! I think you need a SERIOUS reality check. Do you realize what one can do with $4.1 MILLION a year? You crazy space cadets only think of yourself, and not the needs of this country:

      1. We could rebuild Trent Lott's house in New Orleans
      2. We could give a federal tax rebate to a person that earns $15 million/year
      3. We could have a series of meeting with the oil industry executives - including a nice catered lunch
      4. The government could support a mismanaged airline for an entire day


      So before you just jump around throwing away our hard-earned money, please think of those in need.

  • by $RANDOMLUSER ( 804576 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:25PM (#13653326)
    Who thinks of it as V'ger.

    And I'm not talking to it until it returns Persis Khambatta.

  • Sadly (Score:5, Funny)

    by lateralus_1024 ( 583730 ) <mattbaha@gm a i l . com> on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:28PM (#13653341)
    Sadly that message was: "A/S/L/Pic"
  • by jzeejunk ( 878194 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:30PM (#13653355) Journal
    from TFA The Voyagers each carry a message to any extraterrestrials they might encounter. Each messages is carried by a phonograph record -- a 12-inch gold-plated copper disk containing sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth.
    To find out more about the message - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record [wikipedia.org]
  • by adolfojp ( 730818 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:30PM (#13653358)
    VGER called... ...and he wants to speak to the creator.
  • by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:33PM (#13653386)
    Still running, huh. At what point does Voyager go out of warrenty?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Those aren't particles, that's an asteroi...@#$&)@#% {NO CARRIER}
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:53PM (#13653549)
    If we would have to do it over again we would not even be able to decide on putting on a golden HDVD or Blue-Ray disk...
  • by !splut ( 512711 ) <sput AT alum DOT rpi DOT edu> on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:55PM (#13653561) Journal
    "My God, it's full of stars!"

  • by lateralus_1024 ( 583730 ) <mattbaha@gm a i l . com> on Monday September 26, 2005 @03:57PM (#13653580)
    How does Bono feel about this?
  • *goes browsing for bald-headed chick porn*
  • I know why they are cancelling funding... NASA doesn't have any bald chicks, so when they saw the movie, they knew that Voyager had to be stopped... Since no one can reach the power switch, we'll just ignore it till it returns and wants to meet the creator.
  • by payndz ( 589033 ) on Monday September 26, 2005 @04:38PM (#13653862)
    ...was of a green, somewhat bird-of-prey shaped spacecraft bearing down upon it in a threatening manner.

    [Waits for someone even more geeky than me to point out that Klaa blew up one of the Pioneer probes...]

  • I wonder what's going to happen with all these probes once we can travel fast enough to catch up to them in a reasonable amount to time. Would it be better to bring them back and let the collect dust in the Air&Space museum or just keep track of them and let them be a 'side of the highway attraction' on the way to Terra Nova with an attached repeating recording giving it's launch date, time in service and when it was passed by a newer faster probe and became obsolite.
    Mars tourist attractions of the futu

Technology is dominated by those who manage what they do not understand.

Working...