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Space Science

Glitch Forces Mars Probe Shut-Off 158

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the your-tax-dollars-at-work dept.
TheEvilOverlord writes to tell us that BBC News is reporting that a 'glitch' has forced the mars probe to switch into a "safe-mode" switching several of its systems off. Perhaps it is just an education tool to show martians the meaning of BSOD.
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Glitch Forces Mars Probe Shut-Off More

Glitch Forces Mars Probe Shut-Off

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  • What glitch!?!? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ceirren ( 849938 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:46AM (#13477515)
    It's not a glitch, silly. Nor is it a "bug"! It's just a new feature.

  • Relevant glitches. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by moz25 ( 262020 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:46AM (#13477518) Homepage
    It seems like glitches and waiting for the right glitch to come along have become an important part of normal operation for these things.

    Why didn't they build in some means of communication for this "safe mode"? I find it rather odd that it is in a known state (safe mode) that is known to be undesirable, yet there is no fallback system (even a timed one) to get it out of this mode? How come?

    • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by petermgreen ( 876956 ) <plugwash@p[ ]ink.net ['10l' in gap]> on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:54AM (#13477564) Homepage
      from reading the article it sounds like the safe mode is intended to prevent total loss of the probe in the event of a problem that sucks lots of power.

      the main problem seems to be it takes a while to get it back to normal operation and they'd really like to take some photos of the bit of mars the probe is going over soon

    • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:4, Informative)

      by jhines ( 82154 ) <john@jhines.org> on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:54AM (#13477566) Homepage
      From the fine article:

      In this mode, MGS turns off its science instruments but leaves many other systems on.

      Presumbly this includes communications.

      • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:5, Informative)

        by srleffler ( 721400 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:50PM (#13477870)
        But only limited communications. The primary channel, which allows high bandwidth communications, is more fussy to maintain (antenna has to be pointed in the right direction, etc.) In 'safe mode' the probe uses a secondary communications method that is more reliable but much lower bandwidth.

        • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Tablizer ( 95088 )
          There also seems to be a trade-off between power and communication. If the craft does not have to worry about pointing its high-gain antenna toward earth, then it can instead focus on pointing toward the sun. In an emergancy, it is nice to have plenty of power.
        • I hope that they don't have to upgrade the BIOS with a floppy.
      • So it's not exactly safe mode, it's more like "safe mode with networking".

    • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Freexe ( 717562 )
      We're not talking about Windows safe mode here, It was switched onto safe mode because a glich was occuring.

      In safe mode to turns to the sun to funny charge its battery and allows communication with Earth on its low-gain antenna. Which is presumably to work out what is wrong makes changes and reboot the system.

      You have to remember that this craft has been in space since 1996 so is old and might have radiation damage by now so this kind of thing is to be expected.
      • From TFA: Controllers want to get the spacecraft out of safe mode as quickly as possible because it can use up to 10 times more fuel than it would during its normal operating mode. Presumably thats for all the steering to track the Sun. I agree the "safe mode" or rather "emergency recovery mode" is a good idea, pretty unavoidable in design in fact. But the fact they seem to be fighting with their probe's interface shows up how old the thing is, and probably a bit senile from the cosmic rays and so on. Damn

    • Re:Relevant glitches. (Score:5, Informative)

      by srleffler ( 721400 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @01:01PM (#13477942)
      They did. From TFA, in safe mode "[t]he spacecraft...communicates with Earth on its low-gain antenna only." The low-gain antenna is there as a backup communications channel for 'safe mode'.

      You missed the point: 'safe mode' is the fallback system. The probe is not in a 'known state'. They do not yet know what fault caused the probe to go into safe mode. Safe mode is a generic state designed to maintain power and communications with Earth when an unknown fault has occurred, to give the operators time to find a solution or just to check that everything is OK. When they are sure everything is OK they will send a command to exit safe mode.

      There is reason to be cautious. An important satellite was lost a few years ago because the operators rushed their diagnosis of the problem. The satellite's operating state was not what they thought it was--two of the gyros had failed. The operators misinterpreted the data and switched the satellite from its last working gyro to one of the nonworking ones, resulting in total loss of communications and destruction of the satellite. Not good. Before they do anything, they need to be sure they understand what has happened and what state the probe is in.

    • Why didn't they build in some means of communication for this "safe mode"?

      There IS a means of communication, that's how they are able to do anything to bring it out of safe mode. Specifically, it switches to the low gain antenna because that one will work even if it is not aimed accuratly. The presumption is that it would be a real shame if a simple, otherwise correctable problem ended the mission because the high gain antenna was aimed wrong. Being on low gain with a limited but existant data rate is p

  • Man that's got to sting.

    But surely they have control over which system they use, the main system is on safe mode, but the back up system isn't so why couldn't they switch to the back up and then use the "main" one as the back up if they're limited on time.

  • Not a big deal (Score:4, Funny)

    by jarich ( 733129 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:47AM (#13477524) Homepage Journal
    It's just applying a Service Pack. It'll be back up in jiff...

  • BSOD (Score:2, Funny)

    by Luigi30 ( 656867 )
    This probe has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.

  • "The" Mars Probe? (Score:5, Informative)

    by rk ( 6314 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:52AM (#13477553) Journal

    People, we've got be a little more precise. There are three functioning spacecraft in orbit, one more on the way, and two on the ground on and around Mars. Between NASA and the ESA, it's getting crowded on Mars.

    For those who didn't RTFA, it's the Mars Global Surveyor, which is the oldest of those in orbit.

    • Getting crowded? Mar is the size of a planet!
    • Ah, yes.

      I think the reason I stick around is to watch people mock the submitters and the editors. The problem is that they are setting themselves up as such easy targets that it's not really a sport anymore.
    • "Man Dies in Car Crash"

      That's a headline you have probably seen in a newspaper. Are you going to bite the editor's head off for not specifying which man, and what kind of car? Those details are left for TFA.

      Granted, the submitter or Scuttlemonkey could have said "Global Surveyor" in the summary. I think it was just inexperience, they saw "Mars Probe" and went "duhhh, there's only one" or something like that. But even so, the Slashdot summaries are supposed to be little more than headlines anyway.

      • Re:"The" Mars Probe? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by drsquare ( 530038 )
        In the summary, it was refered to as 'THE Mars Probe'. As there are only a few probes, it would have made sense to say which one, or at least to refer to it as 'A Mars Probe'. Saying 'the' probe makes it look like there is only one, and I for one would have assumed it's the rover thing.

        Imagine a newspaper headline after the hurricane:

        Hurricane Destroys City
        Today the city was devastated by the hurricane. More details on page 23.

    • Crowded, you say? I'm about ready for some Battlebots shit to go down, myself.
    • hey, you forgot Beagle 2.. wait, forget it ;)
    • it's the Mars Global Surveyor, which is the oldest of those in orbit.

      The Viking one and two orbiters must still be in orbit, we just can't communicate with them.

      • They've both been powered down for the last 30 years, so I went out on a limb and assumed that it wasn't one of those that entered safe mode. :-)

        • Eh, make that twenty some odd years ago. Although the Viking 1 orbiter is coming up on 30 years out of service.

          Slow Down Cowboy! Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at criticizing your bad math.

  • The spacecraft has switched into a "safe mode", in which the instruments and some other systems are turned off.

    Just CTRL-ALT-DEL and this time, don't hit F8. Windows will boot normally. Duh.
  • Does anyone know if the automated rovers/spacecraft use a commercial or OSS OS? Or does NASA roll their own? -j3rry

    • Re:Nasa? (Score:4, Informative)

      by sounddesignz ( 866275 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:05PM (#13477624) Homepage
      http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.ht ml [fastcompany.com] well, TFA is about the space shuttle, but i'd guess it applies to other space gadgets, too. "Consider these stats : the last three versions of the program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one error each. The last 11 versions of this software had a total of 17 errors. Commercial programs of equivalent complexity would have 5,000 errors."
    • They roll their own.

      I can't recall who offhand, but I remember being told there was a 1 to 5 classification for code quality given out by an internation body, and nasa is the only one in cat 5.

      I believe this is mainly due to repetative code reading by hand with paper and pencil.
      • To be honest I'm surprised they don't demand the entire code to be proven mathematically. I mean, there still seem to be some errors so it doesn't seem to be proven 100%.

    • Re:Nasa? (Score:3, Informative)

      by martin_b1sh0p ( 673005 )
      I know some of their stuff (i.e. the MER rovers) use VxWorks. See http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology /mer_computer_040128.html [space.com] and http://www.windriver.com/news/press/pr.html?ID=355 [windriver.com]
      • Note that the X-38 project I referenced in my previous post has been cancelled. But the MER rovers do use VxWorks, so they didn't roll their own in that case.

    • Re:Nasa? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Malin Space Science Systems http://www.msss.com/ [msss.com] is the company that runs the cameras on MGS, among other Mars probes. The MGS uses VxWorks, a specialized OS for robotic craft, which I believe runs on both *nix and Windows. I think VxWorks is OSS, although I also think some companies use customized versions. The specs for MGS http:/// [http]http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs//scsys/cdhsin fo.html> indicate two 1750A and one 8086 processors, which are probably running VxWorks in a Unix-like environment. The 1750A is
      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks [wikipedia.org]

        "The Mars Exploration Rovers Spirit and Opportunity and the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter use the VxWorks operating system running on a PowerPC platform. VxWorks is in use in several other spacecraft, and Boeing Commercial Airplanes intends to use the operating system in their new 787 airliner."

      • The reason they use older (slower) processors is because of radiation. They don't want bits to get flipped around. Slow and precise is fine.
      • Just wanted to point out that VxWorks is NOT Open Source Software. We use it at work. We used to use Qnx (also not OSS) but we've since switched to VxWorks.

    • They do not roll their own.. Except for shuttle (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They DO NOT roll their own anymore... For the most part, almost every NASA mission is flying windriver's vxWorks OS. Frankly, as much as I'd like, linux doesn't stand a chance for at least 10 more years, because it costs so little (most NASA programs spend at least 100k on vxWorks and tools) but also because the embedded development tools are not quite as nice as windriver's.

      Windriver's OS isn't all that fancy, but it does pack a pretty small footprint when configured well.

      Gotta love slashdot... Lots of p
    • " Does anyone know if the automated rovers/spacecraft use a commercial or OSS OS? Or does NASA roll their own? -j3rry"

      The mars global surveyor (the oldest one launched) is running a modified version of WIN95 from what I've been told in the past.

      The newer rovers use an operating system called VXWORKS made by windriver. VXWORKS is kind of like a single-user based UNIX real time operating system (however, it's closed source and proprietary)

      Here's the page for VXWORKS:
      http://www.windriver.com/products/device_te [windriver.com]
      • My DSL router runs VxWorks:

        Connected to 10.0.0.2.
        220 VxWorks (VxWorks5.4.2) FTP server ready
        User (10.0.0.2:(none)):

        So it must be reasonably common... Anyone know of any other devices that run it?

    • Re:Nasa? (Score:2, Informative)

      by PinkyGigglebrain ( 730753 )
      VxWorks from Wind River Systems.

      Pathfinder and the two rovers are the only ones I'm sure of as far as the Mars units go but some of the other space probes, Stardust,Deep Imapct and Deep Space 1 also used VxWorks.

      I do know that the "safe mode" the probe has entered means that something locked up the main program long enough for a hardware watchdog to go off, rebooting it, during boot the init code checks what state the system is in, ie; did the WD go off, and if it did then it boots a known g

  • Shouldn't the headline include.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by An Ominous Cow Erred ( 28892 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:54AM (#13477568)
    ...which probe?

    There's presently functioning two orbiters (Mars Global Surveyor, Mars Odyssey), two rovers (MER A a.k.a. Spirit, MER B a.k.a. Opportunity), and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is on the way.

    I realize TFA has the info but it sort of belongs in the headline. "The mars probe" just sounds silly and uninformed.

  • What sort of software is this probe running? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CyricZ ( 887944 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @11:57AM (#13477576)
    Can anyone provide technical information regarding what software this probe is running? The article itself is very vague (but not surprising, since it's a general-consumption BBC article).

    Which embedded OS is it running? What language and programming system was used to develop the application software for it? Details, please.

  • I don't have anything useful to say, I just think the phrase "science instruments" is really, really funny.
  • Is this where we upload the virus onto the alien mothership?

  • In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xenoxaos ( 731206 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:04PM (#13477619)
    I have a high emotional stake in the mars missions. Recently a good highschool friend of mine passed away in a plane crash. She was a co-op at NASA. In recognition for her work on the Mars reconnaissance orbiter, her memory and name were launched into space with with it. Krys, We love you. Story: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8931065/ [msn.com]

  • tax dollars? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CunningNickName ( 900555 ) <phaishazamkhan@gmail.com> on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:05PM (#13477620) Journal
    The Mars Global Surveyor's mission ended in 2001 and has been on an extended mission ever since.

    I'd say Americans are getting their money's worth and then some.
    • It's not like the Homeland Security Department.

      IF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY LAUNCHED A SPACE PROBE...

      DHS GUY 1: It's a proud day for the Department of Homeland Security! We're going to launch a probe into outer space!

      DHS GUY 2: Isn't that in Texas?

      DHS GUY 1: I think it's in Nevada.

      DHS GUY 2: Well there isn't time to check.

      DHS GUY 1: Since it's in Nevada we'll need lots of boats to get it there.

      DHS GUY 2: Did you say parade floats? Because I just wrote out a contract to Microsoft for 10000 parade f
    • The Mars Global Surveyor's mission ended in 2001 and has been on an extended mission ever since.

      They mentioned something about recent solar storms that could have messed with it. The radiation is pretty harsh in Mars orbit, especially near the Solar Maximum (11-year cycle), which peaked a few years ago. It seems computer components would be the first to go because they are usually the smallest and most delicate. That probe has been up there for almost a decade.

      The Gallileo probe had progressively more an
  • 'glitch' has forced the mars probe to switch into a "safe-mode",

    Damn spyware! That's the only way you'll be able to remove them. I hope they did Safe Mode with Networking Support because it's will take awhile for someone to cold boot that baby if it something goes wrong.

  • As John Hurt Said In Spaceballs... (Score:4, Funny)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:08PM (#13477636)
    Oh, no, not again! :P

  • Isn't the first time (Score:5, Informative)

    by richdun ( 672214 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:17PM (#13477681)
    Apparently this probe (the Mars Global Surveyor) went into "safe mode" before in its mission.

    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/status/wkreport/curre nt.html [nasa.gov]

  • POSIX OS (Score:3, Informative)

    by KajiCo ( 463552 ) on Sunday September 04, 2005 @12:23PM (#13477707)
    Wind River Systems built the POSIX compliant based OS into the Odyssey, Stardust and Rovers, so it's possible the MGS has a similar OS to those.

    The OS is VxWorks and it's been used in Sattelites, Robots and for some reason Movie editing (probably a file management system)

    http://www.windriver.com/products/device_technolog ies/os/vxworks6/ [windriver.com]

    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/0 3/mars/jump/2404308 [chron.com]
  • Into "safe mode" ya right. What really happened is that in the last communication transaction the probe responded with a previously unknown debugging message "Sorry Houston I can't do that"
  • ...if this means there'll be no class on Tuesday. That would suck.

    /instructor is PI on TES
  • Hey! It's an article about Mars, and there's still no press release from the Mars High Council about this! I think someone's been sleeping...
  • I don't know why they are so worried about imaging the Mars Polar Lander crash site. HiRISE [arizona.edu] will be doing that, and at a much better resolution when it gets there next year.
    • I don't know why they are so worried about imaging the Mars Polar Lander crash site. HiRISE will be doing that, and at a much better resolution when it gets there next year.

      The article said the Polar Lander crash site will soon be in the dark for two years (a martain year) because it is close to the pole. They want to photograph it before they launch the Pheonix Lander (about a year from now?), which uses similar technology to the Polar Lander. After they launch Pheonix, it will be too late to make any ha
  • From TFA:

    The spacecraft has switched into a "safe mode", in which the instruments and some other systems are turned off.
    ...
    In this mode, MGS turns off its science instruments but leaves many other systems on.
    ...
    Controllers want to get the spacecraft out of safe mode as quickly as possible because it can use up to 10 times more fuel than it would during its normal operating mode.

    With science instruments, the high-gain antenna, and other systems shut down, why would the thing use 10x more fuel than us

    • One word... Attitude. In normal mode, it uses "Reaction Wheels" or gyroscopes. These are electrically powered instead of the reaction control thrusters which use fuel. The fuel is then only needed to "speed up" to maintain orbit. When the spacecraft goes into safe mode, the reaction wheels are shut down and the system uses the reaction control system instead.

      Bill
  • Perhaps it is just an education tool to show martians the meaning of BSOD.

    Well, why not, after all, even Bill Gates got one [spamusement.com].

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