Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Space Science

X-15 Pilots Finally Get Astronaut Wings 143

Posted by CmdrTaco from the it's-all-space-to-me dept.
Ginnungagap42 writes "NASA has a story about pilots Bill Dana, John McKay and Joe Walker finally receiving their astronauts wings for their work in the X-15 program back in the 1960's. Astronauts wings were awarded to the USAF personnel in the 1960's, but not to the civilian NASA pilots until now. The X-15 program was an important testbed for hypersonic flight. It's nice that all the pilots who flew high and fast are finally being recognized."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

X-15 Pilots Finally Get Astronaut Wings More

X-15 Pilots Finally Get Astronaut Wings

Comments Filter:

  • Today on Oxymoron Theatre: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:49AM (#13389710)

    I read this story this morning on SpaceRef [spaceref.com], and I was struck with the absurdity of the concept of "astronaut wings", since wings are less than useful in a vacuum. Still, I suppose that there's a great deal of precedent for the "wings" decoration...it's interesting to speculate on whether or not the nomenclature will eventually be shifted to more accurately reflect the current level of technological development (the 'order of the silver booster', or some such). It's equally possible that the nomenclature will never be altered, out of a respect for tradition and a nostalgia for the good old days...it's conceiveable that in the future, an astronaut living on a space station could be award "wings" for some accomplishment of other, having never travelled in an atmosphere himself.

    Good to see these pilots get their props for their contributions, though, even if it is posthumously in the cases of John McKay and Joseph Walker, and even if surviving pilot Bill Dana seems unimpressed by the whole affair.

    • Re:Today on Oxymoron Theatre: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      even if surviving pilot Bill Dana seems unimpressed by the whole affair.

      Had I been as high as him, I doubt I would care much of those wings either... he knows he was there, he saw it, and it must've some been very, very beautiful scenery.


    • I would expect that "wings" will still be wings even in the distant future of space travel. The award ceremony will just contain an explanation of the symbolic significance of "wings".
      • I agree - when I became surface warfare qualified in the US Navy, I received my "water wings" - the insignia is crossed cutlasses behind the bow of a battleship. Cutlasses??? And, for that matter, a battleship???

        It's all symbolism.

        -h-
    • Actually, props aren't very useful in space, for the same reason that wings aren't. /gets coat
    • If they never traveled in an atmosphere I think getting wings would be the least of their problems since it may have been hard for them to breathe without one.
    • Wings might be useful in space. It is possible to imagine a solar sail that looked a lot like a set of wings, and could be used for navigation within a solar system.

    • feather wings? Re:Today on Oxymoron Theatre: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Anyway, the wings in the decorations are feathered ones [milnet.com], not very usefull to fly with planes also, so if "wings" is just an agreed symbol about flying it doesn't matter if it makes sense for non-atmosferic fly.
    • " an astronaut living on a space station could be award "wings" for some accomplishment of other, having never travelled in an atmosphere himself."

      He'd have to travel through the atmosphere, and quite spectacularly, to GET to space.

      Apart from wings, its a strong symbol and very american at that too. What do you want? Buzz Aldrin gets his Exhaust Tail? Neil Armstrong gets his Nosecone?

      'Wings' give you the ability to fly, to leave the ground and go far above; conceptually. I wonder if space elevator traveller
      • He'd have to travel through the atmosphere, and quite spectacularly, to GET to space.

        I think the point was that one born in space would not have had to (at least not as a multicelled entity with all the usual human characteristics).

      • You'd probably get awarded your SRB's or something... No wings on a spacecraft. Well, apart from a Shuttle. And technically that's a wing, not wings... Oh come on, I must have typed past the 20 seconds limit by now...
    • Do you think you could be any more anal? To pick apart the decoration in such a way as you have shows that you either have too much time on your hands or just like to argue about things to "prove" you're smarter than those around you. Sure I might get modded as a troll but wow! There are more important things in life than worrying about whether astronaughts should get a wing decoration or not. They are pilots - they fly. Definition of fly could be debated in your terms of thinking however I think the term

      • Do you think you could be any more anal?

        Do you think you could be any more ignorant?

        To pick apart the decoration in such a way as you have

        It's a shame you didn't actually read my OP...if you had, you might have noticed that I was attempting to initiate a discussion on the topic (emphasis on might), rather than just 'picking apart' the decoration.

        you either have too much time on your hands or just like to argue about things to "prove" you're smarter than those around you.

        Well...I had the time to try to star

      • Re:Today on Oxymoron Theatre: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        If you're posting on /., you have too much time on your hands. ;)

        When spaceplanes are in common use, everybody will have astronaut wings. Bragging about earning your astronaut wings will be equivalent to bragging about buying a new toothbrush. BFD.

        i-ight, nigga gone.
    • Do you still 'dial' a phone number (or wait for the 'dial tone' first)? When what the last time (if ever) you used a rotarty dial telephone?

      I'm sure there a are lots of other/better examples, but the point is once a word or phrase gets some level of common use it gains a certain amount of social inertia. Even though the technology changes and the term is log obsolete, it is hard to think of substituting a different word.

      I can't ever imagine saying:

      "Hold on while I touch-tone his cell."
    • Helicopter pilots gets wings. Yet only an aerodynamicist would quibble about rotor blades being wings. Certainly the general public thinks of rotor blades as rotors, not wings. "Look ma, no wings!"

      Submarines have diving planes which are actually wings. But they don't get wing pins, they get dolphins.

      Cars have wings. Everyone calls them wings. But they don't fly.
    • This is no sillier than submariners getting dolpin pins. I don't think that just because you passed sub training you are now an orca. The pin is a symbol of an acomplishment or a communion.

    • I read this story this morning on SpaceRef, and I was struck with the absurdity of the concept of "astronaut wings", since wings are less than useful in a vacuum. Still, I suppose that there's a great deal of precedent for the "wings" decoration...it's interesting to speculate on whether or not the nomenclature will eventually be shifted to more accurately reflect the current level of technological development (the 'order of the silver booster', or some such). It's equally possible that the nomenclature w

    • ..it's interesting to speculate on whether or not the nomenclature will eventually be shifted to more accurately reflect the current level of technological development (the 'order of the silver booster', or some such).

      I think a booster rocket pin would be a little too phallic, much like the Submarine Deterrent Patrol pin is. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/SSBN-Dete rrent-Patrol-insignia [nationmaster.com]
    • 'Wings' are symbolic of man's desire to 'slip the surly bonds of earth', rather than the means by which it is done. Thus, I don't think that the wings symbol will become an anachronism.
    • Good for the guys who flew ( and flew a "Spaceship" that does not fall apart, burn up or shed little pieces of itself constantly....). I find this all so reminiscent of "Space Cowboys" (Clint Eastwood, James Garner, Tommy Lee Jones, Donald Sutherland), where they were essentially these people fictionalized. In the end they saved NASA's ass and resluctantly get their wings. Wonder who had to cattle-prod NASA to do something right?

    • Re:Today on Oxymoron Theatre: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I remember talking to Bill Dana in 1980's (am I getting that old? ;) ) at Edwards AFB when I was getting into Test Pilot School and he saying that he would like to have them but remembering Joe Walker to died in the F-106 crash and John McKay which died of liver failure from the an X-15 crash he would have like to have them get it also.
      But it is better late than never.

  • Tom Wolfe mentioned this (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mark of THE CITY ( 97325 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:50AM (#13389721) Journal
    In "The Right Stuff," Wolfe mentioned that the NASA X-15 pilots didn't qualify for astronaut wings. Supposedly, a party was held for one of them after his qualifying flight. He was a pair of cardboard wings labelled "Asstronaut."
    • I see... So that's what it takes!

      Note to self:
      - Buy cardboard
      - Buy pen
      - Notify press
    • Also see this book for a great discussion of what makes a pilot. We're the Astronauts pilots even though a monkey made thier flights first? Not to say that doesn't make them brave, but there was certainly a lack of control.

      Compare this with the work being done on the X-15 and centruy series rocket planes. No computer assist, full pilot controled flight to the edge of space and back. Serious Cajones there.
      • "We're the Astronauts pilots even though a monkey made thier flights first"

        Huh?
        • Astronauts didn't actually do much in early rocketry, almost everyhting was ground-controlled (obviously the X planes were the reverse). The only reason the early manned rockets even had controls (allowing the astronauts to call themselves "pilots") was that the astronauts demanded it, however pointlessly, and were important enough to the PR side of NASA to get what they wanted. More self-loading PR material than pilots. Heck, the same thing is almost certainly true for why the shuttle is piloted for the
        • Translated: Even though the early flights were made by monkeys, because the rockets, etc... were that easy to "pilot", were the early (Human) Astronauts considered pilots?

          I think you've always had to be a pilot to be an Astronaut. The monkey, on the other hand, was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. (What're the signs for WTF? and Oh, SHIT!?)

      • In "The Right Stuff," Wolfe mentioned that the NASA X-15 pilots didn't qualify for astronaut wings.

        When asked about it, Chuck Yeager [wikipedia.org] said that he didn't believe in test pilots having "the right stuff"... (Maybe he has the proper thing)...

        Also see this book for a great discussion of what makes a pilot. We're the Astronauts pilots even though a monkey made thier flights first? Not to say that doesn't make them brave, but there was certainly a lack of control.

        They actually complained about being " Spam [lewrockwell.com]

  • Space Ship One Virgin (Score:5, Interesting)

    by saskboy ( 600063 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:51AM (#13389734) Homepage Journal
    Space Ship One's private citizen pilot(s?) got his wings, or at least that's what CNN reported.
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/10/04/spaceship one.attempt.cnn/ [cnn.com]

    "Binnie, now only the second person in history to earn his commercial astronaut wings, reported a shaky flight with "a little roll" but did not experience the 29 rolls Mike Melvill experienced last week."
    • Those would be figurative wings, not literal ones.

      Last I checked, NASA didn't hand out any *commercial* wings.
      • Well, whaddayaknow? CNN's wording was a bit strange on that one. I checked to see if I was making an ass out of myself, and I was. The two SpaceShip One pilots *did* receive astronaut wings.

        Yummy. Foot.
      • No, they were actually presented to both the SS1 pilots after the flights. I distinctly remember a photo of Melville being presented his by a FAA representative.

        From the FAA [faa.gov]:

        The FAA's Associate Administrator, Patti Grace Smith, presented Mr. Melville with the first FAA-issued commercial astronaut wings. A few short months later, on October 4 th, I had the privilege of awarding the next set of wings to Astronaut Brian Binnie.

    • Those were awarded by the FAA, not NASA.

  • About time (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BrentRJones ( 68067 ) <slashdotme AT brentjones DOT org> on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:52AM (#13389740) Homepage Journal
    Those guys risk their lives more than any current astronauts. I recall putting together a plastic model of the X-15 in 1958. I was in second grade and very, very keen on the space program. I still am, but think that robots should be used much more now.

  • Congrats! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NetNinja ( 469346 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:52AM (#13389747)
    I guess this had to happen since the civilian pilot who went up into space to claim the X-Prize was awarded his astronaut wings.

  • Just like space ship one (Score:4, Insightful)

    by evenprime ( 324363 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @10:53AM (#13389751) Homepage Journal
    It makes sense. They were in a winged, rocket powered craft that was dropped from an airplane. If they actually got to the same height as the guys from Scaled Composites, they deserve the same astronaut wings.
    • Actually the went higher and MUCH MUCH faster than the guys from Scaled Composites did.
      Just to put it all into perspective. X-15 what NASA could do with late 50's tech.
    • Why are there three sets of wings being issued when only two X-15 flights broke the 100KM height requirement for 'space'? The two flights being 90 and 91, the nearest other flight being flight 62 at 95.9KM.
      • The US definition of space is 50miles, not 100kms... they really should change to match everyone else, but they haven't so far. Apparently there were 13 flights in to US space, but just 2 into "real" space.

  • joe walker (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @11:01AM (#13389835)
    just FYI I dont know about the first two test pilots but joe walker died in a jet crash in like the late 60's or early 70's. In fact my middle schools name was joe walker in honor of his life since he died while the school was being built or just after it was built (sorry its been a long time since middle school heh). It was pretty cool because I was actually doing a research project on him for the school website and I actually remember we found an old 8mm in the school attic of 'this is your life... joe walker'
    • That accident was in 1966.
    • Joe Walker was a great test pilot, but on a "publicity" stunt involving several general electric equipped aircraft his plane (they think) was sucked into the tail of the XB-70 Valkerie, and was destroyed. The Valkerie lumbered on for a little bit, rolled over and dived into the desert, killing one of the two pilots, who was unable to eject. Someone on Google Earth's BBS said that there are still pieces of the Valkerie in the desert.
      • Don't know the veracity of this, but it does detail what you were saying: http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_s ite.htm [check-six.com]
        • Yep, that was it....I knew somewhere there had to be a website detailing this. I remember reading about this years ago, when I was building a plastic model of the XB-70 and did a little research into the plane. Growing up in the 60's was a great thing for a kid who like planes...there were TONS of things going on research wise, and all sorts of fantastic stories came out of the old Muroc dry lakebed......if only the catus could talk :)
      • The XB-70 is a VERY impressive plane, the sheer size of the thing makes it hard to fathom that it is capable of Mach 3, until you walk to the back and see the array of huge engines =) That plane alone is enough reason to go to Wright Patterson IMO.
        • Yeah, that's one of my "dream stops" that I want to make some day. I got to one of them this spring when on the way back from the South Dakota, black hills area, we detoured through the Omaha Nebraska area and spent a few hours at the SAC museum, halfway between Lincoln and Omaha. The size of the Convair/Consolidated B-36 is impressive, but I still want to get to the AF Museum and see that Valkerie. Here's a pan-o-rama of the main hanger at Omaha http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/p51d007/Hang erPanor [photobucket.com]

  • If Bill Dana got wings ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by TheCrig ( 3178 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @11:02AM (#13389845) Homepage
    ... then what about Jose Jimenez?
  • Here is the NASA page that contains background info on the X-15 for anyone interested.

  • About time... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @11:11AM (#13389920) Homepage
    The X-15 pilots were moving so fast, it took the medals and awards bureau 35 years to catch up with them.
  • I could have sworn Bill Dana was the name of acomedian who appeared from time to time on the Ed Sullivan show in the late 1950s/early 1960s, in sketches about "the reluctant astronaut." The catchphrase was him bawling out "I want my crayons!"

    Evidently my mind has turned to middle-aged mush.

    What was that comedian's name?
  • Some day in the far distant future I can imagine wings being given to astronauts who have dared to take their space craft into an atmosphere, until that day this does seem to be an inappropriate thing to give a pilot for leaving the atmosphere.......

    Either way its good to see NASA stepping up after awarding basically the same thing to the first 'privately funded' astronaut.

  • I piloted my X-15 Estes Rocket Model when I was 12....Where are my wings at!?!?!?!?

  • A little OT: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RPI Geek ( 640282 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @11:32AM (#13390079) Journal
    In his book," Sled Driver," SR- 71/ Blackbird pilot Brian Shul writes:

    I'll always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred one day as Walt (my backseater) and I were screaming across Southern California 13 miles high. We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraft as we entered Los Angeles airspace. Though they didn't really control us, they did monitor our movement across their scope. I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its groundspeed. "90 knots" Center replied. Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center answered. We weren't the only ones proud of our groundspeed that day as almost instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, "Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests groundspeed readout." There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the ground, Dusty." Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation this was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my backseater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt and I had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. "Center, Aspen 20, you got a groundspeed readout for us?" There was a longer than normal pause.... "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots." No further inquiries were heard on that frequency.

    In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reported receiving a request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000ft).
    The incredulous controller, with some disdain in his voice, asked, "How do you plan to get up to 60,000 feet?
    The pilot (obviously a sled driver), responded, " We don't plan to go up to it, we plan to come down to it..."
    He was cleared...

    • Re:A little OT: (Score:4, Informative)

      by chl ( 247840 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @12:48PM (#13390860)
      Funny stories. Just a little nitpick: 60000ft would be flight level (FL) 600. The lowest flight level is FL180, which is at a pressure altitude of 18000ft, which in standard atmospheric conditions is 18000ft above sea level. Pressure altitude is the altitude inferred from the ambient pressure. It coincides with the real altitude only at standard atmospheric conditions, i.e. no high, no lows, no hot or cold day.

      This means that, if pressure or temperature are lower than standard, the flight levels come down accordingly, so FL180 could actually be *below* 17500ft. Consequently, FL180 to FL185 are not used on those days.

      Below 18000ft, pressure altitude is usually corrected for non-standard pressure, and that corrected value is shown on the altimeter. This makes it easier to find your altitude above ground level, which is important for clearing obstacles and landing at airports, whose elevations are given in "real" ft above mean sea level. At higher altitudes, these ground problems are not so relevant, and the flight level scale is used.

      chl

      • The transition layer where you switch from using altitude (based on the mean sea level pressure at the aerodrome, or lowest regional mean sea level pressure if using a regional QNH) to using flight levels (altimeter set to 1013mb or 1013hPa or 29.92inMg) in the UK is from 3000ft to 3500 ft. So the lowest flight level available is FL35.
        Technically, due to airspace limitations, the lowest one I've ever been able to use is FL55, and I had to go quite a way from base to use that.

        That's the UK version, anyway.

    • Re:A little OT: (Score:4, Funny)

      by willith ( 218835 ) on Wednesday August 24, 2005 @01:30PM (#13391271) Homepage
      Another anecdote along those lines, related by Lt. Colonel William Burk Jr. in Ben Rich's [wikipedia.org] memoirs:

      In the fall of '82, I flew from Mildenhall on a mission to Lebanon in response to the Marine barrack bombing. President Reagan ordered photo coverage of ill the terrorist bases in the region. The French refused to allow us to overfly, so our mission was to refuel off the south coast of England....

      We completed our pass over Beirut and turned toward Malta, when I got a warning low-oil-pressure light on my right engine. Even though the engine was running fine I slowed down and lowered our altitude and made a direct line for England. We decided to cross France without clearance instead of going the roundabout way. We made it almost across, when I looked out the left window and saw a French Mirage III sitting ten feet off my left wing. He came up on our frequency and asked us for our Diplomatic Clearance Number. I had no idea what he was talking about, so I told him to stand by. I asked my backseater, who said, "Don't worry about it. I just gave it to him." What he had given him was "the bird' with his middle finger. I lit the afterbumers and left that Mirage standing still. Two minutes later, we were crossing the Channel.

  • Bill Dana (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Bill [wikipedia.org] was a groundman for my grandfather, Einar [wikipedia.org], when they were spin-testing the F-14. They jointly invented a difficult manoeuvre to escape from a frisbee-like uncontrolled highly stable spin that had caused several F-14s to crash. It's fantastic to see that Bill Dana is finally getting his wings.

  • It's a shame (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The Fastest Man On Earth(TM) [wikipedia.org] couldn't be here to accept his wings (rightfully deserved at that).

    He flew the X-15 at 7,274 KM/hr, or Mach 6.7 to get some real grasp on that speed, as well as at an altitude greater than 50 miles, or 80 KM.

    The X-15 crew had to complete the astronaut training curriculum in order to fly the X-15, but that's beside the qualification required to recieve an Astronaut Wing, that being flying in space at an altitude greater than 50 miles, or 80 KM.

    Highlight of his X-15 (stolen from w

    • Re:It's a shame (Score:3, Informative)

      by Tiger4 ( 840741 )
      Pete Knight was kind of an a$$hole in other aspects of life [see below], but he was a heck of a pilot. I saw him at the 50th anniversary of the Air Force and 50th anniversary of breaking the sound barrier celebration at Edwards in October 1997. His record flight was in October 1967, making it the 30th anniversary. I asked him about it. He said the celebration organizers didn't think it was significant enough to recognize at the same event. I definitely felt kind of bad for him at that point. It isn't
  • Two of these three are dead, and I suspect Bill Dana is in his 70's, and probably doesn't care much. When you are young, flying on adrenaline and have a pretty high mortality rate, the small regconitions like wings and honors and medals mean a lot more. If it takes 40+ years to deliver them, after you have calmed down a bit and had a full life, it probably doesn't mean a whole lot for the people (well, person) it's being awarded to. I think it's being done to make the institution feel better about itself

  • Working and living around Edwards AFB [google.com] should qualify as a remote tour. . .

    (Hint: keep zooming out until you find Rosamond, Lancaster, and Palmdale, California. Then zoom out some more until you find Los Angeles)

  • maybe Maurice Minnifield wil be recognized now.
  • I grew up in South Africa and we had neither TV nor an open press, and we missed the moon landings, but my father collected national geographic and my childhood dreams were filled with articles and photos of brave men piloting rocket powered craft like the X-15 without the benefit of modern technology to unheard of speeds and heights and controlled landings.

    Those guys deserve medals, not just astronaut's wings.

Slashdot Top Deals

There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.

Close