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Space

Quaoar Showing Evidence of Volcanic Activity 53

Posted by michael from the long-way-out dept.
calibanDNS writes "Recent findings at the University of Hawaii's Institute for Astronomy indicate that there may be volcanic activity on at least one object in the Kuiper belt."
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Quaoar Showing Evidence of Volcanic Activity More

Quaoar Showing Evidence of Volcanic Activity

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  • Volcanic activity seems like something of a strech...now, particulate venting isn't anything particularly unusual for large, rock like objects in space (see: comets, some asteroids). A collision, though, seems like the most likely cause.

    • Re:a bit of wishful thinking... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by CheshireCatCO ( 185193 ) on Thursday December 09, 2004 @09:00PM (#11047871) Homepage
      Large collisions would be pretty rare in the Kuiper Belt. There just isn't enough stuff around. Worse, they occur at low speeds. So you wouldn't expect to generate a lot of melting that way. It's possible, of course. But it's an eyebrow-raiser.

      "Particulate venting"? You mean volatile sublimation, like comets when they get near the Sun? I don't know of any asteroids that do that. And Quaoar is much too far from the Sun to expect that sort of behavior. (The maximum temperature you would expect is around 50 Kelvins. And that assumes an albedo of 0, which can't be the case if they can see it in the visible wavelengths.)
      • "You mean volatile sublimation, like comets when they get near the Sun? I don't know of any asteroids that do that."

        Examples are so well known they're in introductory college-level texts like William Hartmann's Moons & Planets. This text mentions cases like asteroid 4015, whose 1979 discovery turned out to be a rediscovery of comet Wilson-Harrington, first discovered in 1949, and the case of asteroid 2090 Chiron, which suddenly sprouted a coma in 1988. Hartmann writes:

        Many outer solar system asteroi

        • a) Having taught from that book, I can tell you right now that Hartmann is not an introductory level text. So please don't try to insult me.

          b) Chiron and Wilson-Harrington are not asteroids. Both are comets. Chiron is nowhere near the main belt and is, rather, a type of object known as a Centaur. It's basically a kind of cometary body, not an asteroid.

          c) While some dead comets are widely believed to be disguing themselves as asteroids, no one (except Hartmann perhaps) that I know wants to classify th
          • a) According to the publisher's website about the 4th edition [brookscole.com] of Moons & Planets:

            Math boxes allow for greater flexibility and adaptability to varied mathematical abilities. (This text is the only one that gives the instructor a choice of teaching planetary science either at a descriptive level or at a moderately advanced level involving algebra and elementary calculus.)

            Hartmann also mentions freshmen in the book's preface. Clearly the book was written for a wide college audience. Just because you don'

    • It's just a big, internal combustion powered, alien base. Or maybe the exhaust from their giant alien steam sauna.

      In any case, I for one welcome our new venting Kuiper overlords.

  • Someone needs to say something (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LeninZhiv ( 464864 ) * on Thursday December 09, 2004 @07:10PM (#11047125)
    Well, to break the silence, I'll chip in my two cents:

    1) It's really really cool to think that that far out into the solar system there could be geological activity going on. The sun's gotta be something like only -3 magnitude from out there.

    2) This has got to be really hard to verify or know much about; although at least now when we get around to sending further probes into the Kuiper belt Quaoar will probably be way up there on the priority scale, which is a good thing.

    Come to think of it, isn't there a probe that was recently launched headed to the Kuiper belt? Anyone know if by some great surrendipity it might be travelling in this region? I look forward to theories as to why Quaoar rather than Pluto or Sedna would be the first signs of geo activity in the outer solar system.

    Just some random thoughts from an amateur astronomer...

    • Re:Someone needs to say something (Score:5, Informative)

      by CheshireCatCO ( 185193 ) on Thursday December 09, 2004 @07:48PM (#11047412) Homepage

      The sun's gotta be something like only -3 magnitude from out there.

      Quaoar is at 43 AU from the Sun. That means the Sun's luminosity is down by a factor of 43^2, or about 1900, from what we get at Earth. That's about 8 magnitudes, so the Sun is about a -18 magnitude object. Still by far the brightest thing around.

      Besides, it doesn't matter much. Volcanism is an endogenic process, so the heat source would generally be internal. Surface temperature seldom sets much to do with geological activity. (Erosion is the main exception to this.)

      This has got to be really hard to verify or know much about

      More, and better, spectra. You don't need to get close to something to figure out what's going on, as much as it helps. Another group reportedly already has similar spectra and sees similar features.

      Also, lab work on ice at these temperatures and pressures would help a lot. Although it's hard to figure out what ice will do over the course of 4 billion years...

      Come to think of it, isn't there a probe that was recently launched headed to the Kuiper belt?

      No. The New Horizons mission to Pluto hasn't launched yet.

      I look forward to theories as to why Quaoar rather than Pluto or Sedna would be the first signs of geo activity in the outer solar system.

      1. It's not. Pluto has evidence for geological activity.
      2. So do a lot of other outer solar system objects, although you seem to mean "Kuiper Belt Objects" in this case. (They're not the same thing. The "outer solar system" is usually taken to mean the giant planets and outward.) Even then, you almost have to count Neptune's giant moon Triton on the list, which almost certainly has geological activity.
      3. Sedna is smaller than Quaoar. So it's less likely to have geological activity. Also, it's farther away thatn Quaoar, so it's really tough getting a spectrum.
      • If anybody needs a quick refresher on magnitudes (as I did!) you may want to look here: http://www.e-z.net/~haworth/constel/magnitude.html

        The summary is that each "magnitude" is 2.51 times the brightness, with brighter stars getting lower numbers. So, a magnitude 4 is 2.51 times brighter than a magnitude 5. Negative numbers mean very bright.
        The sun is -26.75 from Earth.
      • Also, lab work on ice at these temperatures and pressures would help a lot. Although it's hard to figure out what ice will do over the course of 4 billion years...

        We're doing lab work on this already. Here in the lab where I'm sitting now we study non-thermal crytallization of amorphous water using photons. Setup is a vacuum chamber with 10^-10 torr pressure and a cryostat able to cool the graphite sample to about 40 K. The amorphous ice on the sample is irradiated with photons from a laser or a lamp an
        • "The rates can be calculated and one can do simulations on how the ice should look after 4 billion years."

          Provided that the behavior is linear, of course. But it's great to know that the experients are happening; I know a lot of planetary geologists who are looking forward to better lab data.
          • Provided that the behavior is linear, of course. But it's great to know that the experients are happening; I know a lot of planetary geologists who are looking forward to better lab data.

            Acctually, we published data recently in Journal of Geophysical Research - Planets about the effect of photons on water ice films, don't know if the quality of the data is good enough for the geologists though. ;)
    • these are just speculations. All that the data actually show is that there is some crystalline ice.

      Quaoar is very cold, only few kelvines and pure water at this temperature freezes into amorphous ice. What is not known is the chemical composition and the history of Quaoar. So it is possible that the ice on Quaoar formed at higher temperatures but this observation is not a proof of a continuous thermal process.

      • They also speculate that the ice would have had to formed recently, since crystalline ice is expected to have a lifetime of a few millions of years with the presence of radiation in space.
        • So then the Quaoar scenario would seem to show that:

          a) there is some continuous process of heat
          b) there is some form of radiation shielding
          c) there is another process at work that mimics/underlies what we see in heat (spin dynamics, sufficient gravitation, etc?)

          additions, subtractions, comments (from anyone)?

          .
          -shpoffo
          • additions, subtractions, comments (from anyone)?

            Just this: Presuming that the effects are a.) real, and b.) the result of a collision, then how long could things remain more or less intact before they degrade back to their "normal" state?

            In other words, how much time may be allowed to leave things as they are, following a collision, and will this amount of time render the unlikelihood of a collision some time during that permitted time frame a little more likely?

            • By "real" do you mean that there really are ice crystals on Quoaor? So then " how long could things remain more or less intact," i.e. in crystalline form, before they degrade back to "normal" - i.e. a non-crystalline form?

              Your restatement, though, gets my imagination running. Is your question whether the probably of another hit during the lifespan of the ice crystals close enough to 'a sure thing' that the ice crystals never really go away? (This presumes some initial hit, or other activity which lea
              • By "real" do you mean that there really are ice crystals on Quoaor? So then " how long could things remain more or less intact," i.e. in crystalline form, before they degrade back to "normal" - i.e. a non-crystalline form?

                Yes. Exactly that.

                The possibility of a continuous presence of ice crystals on Quoaor as a result of regular collisions is f a s c i n a t i n g

                Concur.

                Once we have enough information about the material density of the Kuiper Belt we could have a better estimate of that probability

                Act

                • Turning the model around seems like a good first step. So in order to develop a model for the collision frequency's lower bounds we would need:

                  1). Quoaoar's gravitation
                  2). Quoaoar's surface area
                  3). Water-ice physics in the Kuiper Belt

                  It seems reasonable that we may have a rough sense of surface area already. We know the surface temperture (50K), so perhaps an "astro-geo-physicist" could help put some brackets on the range of gravitation that Quoaoar may exhibit. Detailed water-ice physics for the Kuipe
    • It's really really cool to think that that far out into the solar system there could be geological activity going on. The sun's gotta be something like only -3 magnitude from out there.
      Neptune's moon, Triton is apparently so cold, that it has volcanoes made of liquid nitrogen [arcadiastreet.com].
    • "It's really really cool to think that that far out into the solar system there could be geological activity going on. The sun's gotta be something like only -3 magnitude from out there.
      [...]
      Just some random thoughts from an amateur astronomer...      "

      The words are less random than the thoughts. You can increase their enthalpy, while retaining their entropy, by rephrasing:

      "It's really really cool to think that that far out into the solar system there could be geological activity going on, on Quaor. The sun's g
    • The sun's gotta be something like only -3 magnitude from out there.

      According to Celestia, it's -18.56, for what it's worth. (The full moon on Earth is something like -12.6, so the sun would still be bright enough to read by, by a long margin).

      TWW

  • Anyone else think, "Geez, can't they even spell 'quasar' correctly"?

    Followed by an excited rush to the article to see how the heck a star can have volcanic activity, of course.
  • an object that rotates around the sun has volcanic activity and is not considered a planet or a moon. many objects have volcanic activity in the solar system, i do not know why this is a special case. The article did not really mention too much. Unless theres valuable metals in that peice, it seems kinda pointless. Tell me if im wrong...

    • Re:so... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by CheshireCatCO ( 185193 )
      Well, it's a clue about what goes on inside KBOs. Since we can't drill into any of them right now, this is the best we can do.
    • Actually it revolves around the sun. It rotates around its own center of mass.
      • i didnt see that so that is really cool. But i thought that the KBO would be too large to rotate around its own center of mass, guess not.
        • You are familiar with night and day, aren't you? They are the result of the Earth's rotation around its own center of mass.
          • if what the guy is saying (following his pronouns) is that if this belt is rotating around something else, than that would be interesting. Although thinking about it would be unusual because the belt is not small. And ill go behind my original post.

  • More Kuiper Belt Information Here (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09, 2004 @10:59PM (#11048426)
    Website by the leader of the study: http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/faculty/jewitt/kb.html [hawaii.edu]
  • The lava flows might even include molten water!

    -
  • Anybody know when an oil company will be going there? In a place like that, there has to be something really good...

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