India Debating Manned Space Flight 406
alphakappa writes "India's moon mission and other space programs have been covered before on Slashdot. India is now debating sending a manned space mission and has acknowledged it's technological preparedness to do so in the next 6-7 years if given the go-ahead. The issues being debated before starting work on the mission include cost-benefit and other space priorities. (These missions also play host to international experiments) What does the general slashdot crowd think of these space plans?"
Does Anyone else have this image. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Does Anyone else have this image. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does Anyone else have this image. (Score:5, Informative)
First, I should salute the original poster for having the heart to come back & apologize for his/her condescending remark. I have seen many dish out belittling comments like that in the past about India & have abosoultely no remorse whatsoever.
This captures the gist of one of biggest lessons I have learnt after coming to this country. Humans, operate on stereotypes a lot more than they think they do. Where else will I learn this other than from living in the melting pot of world cultures, United States.
The problem with the stereotypes is that they don't justify reality. For example, before I came here, I thought of America as Utopia. Everyone is happy, educated, smart & has decent living conditions. I was shocked to learn that double digits percentage of the population was illiterate & lived below poverty line. I was also shocked to see how religiously conservative this country is.
Similarly, India is not full of cows & half-naked people & diseases. Overpopulation is India's biggest problem & it infact amazes me how much we have accomplished 'in spite of' the problems it faces. I am not going to go in to the boastful mode. I am sure you have heard or will hear about it.
In terms of the humor, lets face it, everyone deserves to have their personal opinion on things. But, the context in which you share it with others is important. A world renowned place like Slashdot is definitely not the context. Take Brit golfer Paul Casey's comments on America for that matter. He said, "Americans are stupid" to some British press two days ago. His sponsor Titelist pulled out of the contract right away & many American golfers condemned his remark. Could we expect Americans to say, "Oh, cummon, that is his personal opinion. Lets move on". No, of course they will be aggravated. Because, they know not ALL americans are stupid. The same way, not ALL Indians are grazing cows.
For those who brought up Pakistan, glad you did. I will not be surprised if India offered a seat for Pakistan in its mission. We are brothers and sisters after all & you will be surprised how many friendship gestures are shared by the us.
To summarize,
"Let noble come to us from all sides"
-Rig Veda (3000+ years old Indian scripture)
not trying to be flamebait but (Score:4, Insightful)
Iraq wanting to go to space? That would be interesting.
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:3, Insightful)
India certainly has the developing economy and technical know how to get there, but I seriously doubt they would spend a lot of money reinventing the wheel. They will indeed outsource consulting at the very least and most likely will add some custom component manufacturing to that as well. This is great news for us because as more money flows into established companies on these programs, we will actually see innovation
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:5, Interesting)
Because developing and third-world nations are making huge strides in progress. The US accomplished this over 35 years ago, but that really does not mean much because they've competition from what were unlikely competitors, until a few years ago.
It shows that as a civilization we are progressing and moving forward - technology is not as much of a niche as it once was. What one country could achieve after putting in so much of time and effort has now been made a little easier and a little common place.
That is why this is important. That said, I'm quite certain that if NASA was to launch a manned mission, Slashdot would cover that too.
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:2)
The country that would get some real attention would be an Iranian Space Program. The ability to put a nuke into New York City from Terhan by air delivery would certainly wake up the U.S. government. That is precisely why Sputnik was taken so seriously back in the 1950's.
Canadians in Space (Score:4, Informative)
Imagine, Canadians in space [space.gc.ca]. What a crazy idea.
Imagine if they put Canadian made parts on the shuttle [space.gc.ca] or ISS [space.gc.ca].
Re:Canadians in Space (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Canadians in Space (Score:5, Funny)
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:3, Interesting)
Doing all of this will provide these nations with plenty of cool technology and a lot of capable engineers. At that point the US Government would have no cho
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:2)
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:3, Insightful)
It was, as you say, "idling", NOT AN IMMINENT THREAT!
I find it interesting that lots of people forget about this:
From Wikipedia (this [wikipedia.org] article)... "In particular, the United States, along with its allies (among them Britain, France and Italy), provided Iraq with biological and chemical weapons and the precursors to nuclear capabilities." (emphasis mine)
Saddam makes pond scum seem worthy of the papal robes, but we cannot forget the hist
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:3, Insightful)
Both Bush and Clinton could have and perhaps should have done more to combat and intercept AQ operatives and plans.
9/11 did not occur at the hands of a sovereign nation and no invading of a sovereing nation and overthrowing of its government likely would have prevented it. We needed better field intelligence and operatives within the AQ network which was known to exist for several pr
Re:not trying to be flamebait but (Score:3, Insightful)
Go for it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Go for it (Score:5, Insightful)
If we were to wait until everyone in the world had their basic needs covered, progress in other areas would never happen.
Progress happens in many ways, you cannot see that it is at the "expense" of anything else. And as a species, we've always sought to do things that motivates us.
Space, Computers and the like are motivating India now, and they are taking great strides in these areas. Which is as it should be.
A few years from now, these will create jobs (see, the IT industry has already created jobs there) and will raise the standard of living. This will bring in more revenue and help the people lead better lives.
It's always a circle, and the solution is not stagnation in progress.
Re:Go for it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Go for it (Score:3)
Yes, well it's bound to come up if you insist on raising it, isn't it? Here's what the OP actually said:
There [are] a few imbalances in the world that need to be sorted out and space is one of them. The more the merrier.
Clearly, the imbalance meant is the domination of space by first-world powers, and the more the merrier is simple approbation. The post simply doesn't stand up as sarcasm.
Not that I agree with you illiterate w
Re:Go for it (Score:2)
All the money in the world will not save the poor (Score:5, Insightful)
You can can toss all the money you want and it will not fix the situation and possibly make it worse. The issue isn't the squalor they live in, for some of those people they don't see it as squalor. Many live as those who lived before them and it is by OUR standards that their living standards are not acceptable. You cannot buy them a new lifestyle. You cannot pay them to think and act differently.
Sure spend some money, but also realize that the national pride will go a lot further for many Indians with a successful space program. It allows them to dismiss people who constantly call India "3rd world". Too many people see that country as "3rd world" while ignoring all they accomplished.
Why do people mostly complain about DEMOCRATIC countries that do this but give a pass to China who not only throws a ton of money into their space race, their military, and such and at the same time likes to whack 5000+ of thier own people?
India is progressing nicely, I don't think they need our Western standards to intefer with a job they are doing.
Re:All the money in the world will not save the po (Score:2, Informative)
Your comment may apply to many rural villages where a simple yet poor life has continued for generations. However, there is also real squalor as well. Overpopulation combined with poor sanitation and rampant disease plague the sprawling slums of bombay, calcutta, etc. About 150 million people l
Re:Go for it (Score:2)
Re:Go for it (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully if they do decide to put someone up they'll have done a good cost benefit on it.
Re:Go for it (Score:5, Informative)
The efficient British administration bungled on this as late as Bengal Famine, 1943 [commerce.ubc.ca]. In fact, 3 million are supposed to have died in this famine, and caused , among other things, caused Amartya Sen [nobelprize.org] to take up economics, in particular, famine studies [oxfordscholarship.com].
On the other hand, basic science (like space research) deserves to be encouraged by all (civilized) nations. Imagine medieval Italians or 18th century Britons waiting till all poverty was eradicated. Science and civilization do not progress in such a manner.
Re:Go for it (Score:2)
> their people live in.
We're luck they are so poor.
Same for the Chinese.
If every Chinese wanted to eat just one chicken per week more, world-supplies of corn/crop would not be sufficient to raise these chickens.
And what do you think would happen if China and India had a car-density like Germany or the US (and fuel-consumption like US-cars) ?
Currently, there's no way another 2 billion people can live an "American Way of Life", at least not very long.
The
Easy solution (Score:4, Funny)
slight math error (Score:2, Flamebait)
Since it's a government project, only the highest quality will be acceptable. These jobs must be outsourced to the People's Rebublic of China, where quality is
In response, the Germany will attack Poland and the French will surrender to Belgium.
Re:Easy solution (Score:2)
Thats pretty damn good...
They should do it!! (Score:5, Interesting)
No they shouldn't!! (Score:2, Insightful)
The money should be spent on agricultural research and improved infrastructure.
The average annual income in India is $450.
Being an Indian, I feel strongly about it as well.
Re:No they shouldn't!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, and the buying power of each $1 is significantly higher.
You're an idiot if you compare USD to Rupee one for one.
$1 USD is ~ Rs. 48
That's a lot of money and significantly higher buying power.
Re:No they shouldn't!! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No they shouldn't!! (Score:2)
The only thing profitable about space launch is being a contractor to the government entity doing the launches.
Re:No they shouldn't!! (Score:3, Interesting)
Boeing DOES do commercial launches for whoever wants to hire them and does it with their own facility launching from the middle of the ocean [sea-launch.com]. Is this something like that what you had in mind?
Re:No they shouldn't!! (Score:2)
Why doesn't Lockheed Martin or Boeing or British Aerospace or _______ have a commercial space launch business?
They do. Next complaint?
Offsite expansion welcome (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Offsite expansion welcome (Score:3, Insightful)
Any offsite expansion in the near future (couple of decades at least) would require nearly all supplies be provided from Earth. Now those resources will likely leave and never return, reducing the total amount of resources planet side for the rest of us.
But I agree with other posters, we need someone other then NASA working with manned space missions -- even private spac
to the contrary (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:to the contrary (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:to the contrary (Score:2)
More Access (Score:5, Insightful)
Role Reversal (Score:5, Funny)
Although they'll have to outsource to Americans that used to work at NASA
NASA: "Hello? This is Gutmar."
INDIA: "Yeah, 'Gutmar', your real name is something like 'David' or 'Paul' isn't it? Damned Americans taking our jobs."
NASA: "My Friend, I cannot tell you where I am. It is not our policy My Friend."
Competition Good (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps if we convinced there was oil on the moon there would be more intrest but I belive the current compeition will help. It's bad enough our engineers are being squeezed out by cheap alternatives in other countries but losing out on our space program could have profound results elsewhere in our economy. We'll go from being a tech leader to a tech backwater. Were already there with our network infrastructure, were getting there with our engineering based workforces and high tech jobs going overseas.
Worse if you look at things you may notice that our society and economic structure may eventually destroy our country. With inflation on nearly everything it's becoming nearly impossible to compete with other countries. sure you can compare their living conditions vs ours but does everything here have to be so damned expensive? When I was born the average house sold for 55,000 dollars. Today you're lucky to see them in the 80's and the average is 250,000 where I live worse in some other areas. What justifies all that price jumping?
Worse is we have a president that went from a 5 trillion dollar surplus to hitting a 8 trillion dollar deficit. Where the hell did we spend all that money. IIRC those iraq spending bills were in the billions per year but looking at the deficit it's obvious that the money is going somewhere else unknown to the american public. Who are we paying and for what?
Re:Competition Good (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Competition Good (Score:2)
Perhaps if we convinced there was oil on the moon there would be more intrest
While there is no oil on the Moon there is some Helium-3 [wikipedia.org] in the Moon regolith, which can make Moon a stepping stone for other, more helium-3 reach sources (gas giants) [space.com]
Manned Space Flight is beneficial to India (Score:5, Insightful)
Ironically the USA at this point doesnt have the same benefit return on manned spaceflight that India has.
1) Commercial satellite contracts will be easier to get for a variety of reasons and insurance of those launches cost less as well
2) it will encourage indian kids to get into science
3) Reduce dependency on imported foreign technology by developing local talent in engineering and also the extensive IT etc. other support systems needed. Depending on imports is fine, but you need to have knowledge in case there is a loss for some reason.
4) Having a missile program is good for defense (sorry but its true given the way the world is, with all the whacko rogue states running around)
5) Be able to hook up with the ISS and carry out experiments in semiconductors (crystal growth)
Re:Manned Space Flight is beneficial to India (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember how, before 9/11, one of the biggest international worries was that the newly nuclear Pakistan and India would start nuclear war with each other?
I don't know who gets the credit for it, because I wasn't paying attention, but isn't it nice that the worry about India using ICBMs on Pakistan (or anyone else) has become much less pronounced in the last few
Re:Manned Space Flight is beneficial to India (Score:3, Funny)
Let's do it together (Score:4, Interesting)
As long as India is concerned, it's a bit harsh to spend bilions of dollars to send ppl into space, when so many in India are starving etc. However the problem is well beyond my comprehension, I bet that if they actually did spend the money just to buy some food, next ppl would be starving again, if however they spend on research, with some luck they will develop technological means to overcome poverty.
What bothers me most with developing countries is the fact that despite spreading diseases, high mortality, poverty, bad living conditions, the law (as in China) there is still growth in population. I won't have a child unless I can secure his future up until University at least, they just don't care...
I had a solution to that (Score:2, Interesting)
What I was thinking the other day was to have a governmental construction force, similar to the army,
I love competition (Score:5, Insightful)
The Race for Space was an expensive bugger, but it was also a time of great innovation.
I welcome the Chinese, and the Indians, and the Japanese. Go Arianespace! Whose idea was it to replace two lumbering bureaucracies with a single humongous multinational lumbering bureaucracy?
Re:Let's do it together (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want these developing countries to stop having so many babies, the only proven way to do so is to get them developed, and that can only come through technology.
India going to space. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:India going to space. (Score:2)
But I guess that's not so important anymore.
Re:India going to space. (Score:2)
Congress: The United States of America is the greatest nation in the world, and our space program is the absolute best in the world. In fact, no other country even comes close.
Who do you think the people are going to believe?
Space VS Marine Development for 1B souls? (Score:2, Insightful)
That being said, they have an ocean on their border and it seems a much more worthy opportunity that would lead to being able to adequately take care of their population by exploiting that, and developing science that is marine-based, as opposed to space based
Enthusiastic, but I have questions . . . (Score:2)
However, it seems to me a lot of countries are jumping into the space race, and I'm concerned about conflicts, territoriality, and inappropriate militarization. It seems it's getting awful crowded up
Is there still a point to MANNED space flight? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not trying to be a killjoy, I'm just curious.
Re:Is there still a point to MANNED space flight? (Score:2)
Re:Is there still a point to MANNED space flight? (Score:2)
(Is there a -1 bad pun mod? I hope not...)
I say, Bravo India (Score:2)
After all, the more countries who can build spacecraft the better when the aliens come invading...
out sorcerer ?? (Score:2, Funny)
Ewwey! (Score:2, Funny)
Confined Space + Vindaloo Farts = Unpleasant Voyage.
Yeah, but they don't have a Visa (Score:3, Funny)
(speaking as one has to do visa submission for wife for every fucking country we have to go to) If India is so advanced why is indian citizenship worth shite? Gah.
sri
Rocket technology applicable to ICBMs? (Score:3, Interesting)
I know that some of the hubbub surrounding Loral's technology used in Chinese satellite launches was because of the supposition that it would enhance PRC's ability to lob nukes over longer distances.
Of course, since Pakistan is so close, I don't know how much of an impetus there is towards long-range missiles in India.
Mission Control (Score:2)
Clear and obvious win for India's leaders (Score:2)
It is sad the uber-rich and media/academic/financial elites running the US have shut down the US economy to the point the US hasn't been able to take advantage of technologies that were developed here.
I suspect it will take something like another sputnik to turn that around. These plans on the
Re:Clear and obvious win for India's leaders (Score:2)
Re:Clear and obvious win for India's leaders (Score:3, Interesting)
here's how they can do it (Score:2)
"What labor deficit?"
That's a great idea... (Score:2)
(Because some are too think headed to have a sense of humor, I AM KIDDING!)
stay off my land!! (Score:2)
Bit of a racist debate this (Score:5, Insightful)
How would people react if instead we were talking about Africans swinging from tree branches into space?
I know I will get the typical idiot responses banging on about freedom of speech, but you know what? I don't care.... racism is racism is racism....
Please do not offer my god a peanut (Score:2, Funny)
What does the general slashdot crowd think ? (Score:3, Funny)
Out of this world!
The more the merrier (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Here's a q (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Here's a q (Score:2)
Re:Here's a q (Score:2, Interesting)
How would it be if one would say America = "duh"?
Whereas... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whereas... (Score:3, Funny)
How is it... (Score:2)
Attention mods! Put down the crack pipe before picking up the mouse.
Re:Wrong Priorities (Score:3, Insightful)
The space program will help by providing jobs and encouragement to learn science
India's space budget is only 550 million
Please find less wasteful program to bitch about instead of one that encourages science and will improve the agricultural, hea
Re:Wrong Priorities (Score:2)
NASA did get a boost; however, I wonder if that boost will go towards Star Wars II more than anything?
Agreeable... (Score:2)
Re:Geosynchronous Orbit Over Pakistan? (Score:2, Insightful)
While India's technological developments are said to be largely inhouse (they had a little help from Russia in the 1980s, but Russia had to stop helping them after pressure from the US), Pakistan's technologies are largely borrowe
Re:Geosynchronous Orbit Over Pakistan? (Score:3)
Re:Geosynchronous Orbit Over Pakistan? (Score:2)
Re:I can see the future .... (Score:2)
Re:Oh, great (Score:2)
Sheesh
Some people.
Re:Feed your people first... (Score:4, Insightful)
I am sick of such messages which regularly appear on the topic of some technological development in the developing nations. And these messages get moderated as +5 Insightful.
If I were to use the same argument, then US should spend a little less on defence and bring the number of people below povery line to zero.
Re:In other news... NASA outsourced (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What's the point of this ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Considering.... (Score:2, Insightful)
And you don't agree with Indian because a third world country is rising beyond its stereotypical image? There are a lot of problems in this world be it a third or a first world country, putting an end to the development of science is not an answer to that.
And to your counter argrument that they are reinventing the wheel. well not everybody is cooperative enough to share their technology with the rest of the world. so
Re:Considering.... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You're ignorant. Sorry for being so blunt, but it's true.
India might have a population of a billion, but they're not all "poor, illiterate and starving", far from it. As for things like "an ancient infrastructure and horrible pollution", well I have two words for you: Union Carbide.
Seriously, put down Half-Life 2 for five minutes and read a book. Perhaps then you'll have a better understanding of the world beyond your own nation's borders. And perhaps you'd also appreciate that you don't even have to get a passport, or even get into a car, to see real abject poverty: I'm sure there are plenty of people living hand to mouth existences only a few miles from your doorstep.
2. You have no appreciation for the benefits that technology can have for even the simplest people, or the role of technology in elevating people from poverty.
Farmers benefiting from better weather forecasts is just one example of what I'm talking about. Solar panels providing electricity to even the remotest regions is another. Water filtration and recycling techniques are yet more.
Sorry, but the only thing that's asinine here is your attitude. I've been there and seen the country too, so I know that you're talking out of your backside.
Re:Considering.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Poor is a relative term. Of course there are poor people in India, just as there are poor people in the US, in the UK, and everywhere else in the world. India certainly doesn't have a monopoly on poor, and it certainly doesn't have "about a billion poor, illiterate and starving people" as you claim. If nothing else, the number of technology jobs being moved their from the US and elsewhere should blow your argument out of the water.
According to the CIA World Factbook, India has posted an average annual economic growth of 6 percent since 1990: see if you can find any other comparable nation that's making those sorts of strides. And the distribution of wealth isn't as bad as in, say, the US, with the bottom 10 percent of the population having 3.5 percent of the wealth (compared to 1.8 percent in the US). Life expectancy is rising just as it is in the West. Etc, etc. The idea that India is still a poor backward nation is just that, an idea, whereas the reality is very different.
As I've said twice now, once in my original post, once again in the previous paragraphs, I've been to India too. The reality is that I've never had a problem phoning the West (maybe 20 years ago, but not now) and the infrastructure is visibly improving year on year. Pollution, the other issue that you mention, is hardly something that's specific to India either: I've experienced smog-filled days in the developed as well as the developing world.
I've been to India several times. My last trip to India covered everywhere from the northernmost states down to Mumbai and then onto Bangalore, and lasted 13 weeks. My next one, scheduled for early next year, will cover New Delhi, Agra, Rajasthan, Gujurat, Mumbai, Goa and Kerala over six weeks. My hindi is a bit poor in places, but my gujurati is spot on, and I can converse with the average man in the street anywhere in the country without a problem. So, please, don't presume to tell me I'm the one who's ignorant about the Indian subcontinent. Because what you know about India that I don't probably isn't worth one fucking rupee.
Re:Not yet... (Score:3, Interesting)
The world would also be a better place if we were all transformed into magical fairies with wings so that we could fly wherever we wanted to go. What's your point?
Re:Indian Space Program? (Score:3, Insightful)