
Cosmos Solar Sail Getting Close To Launch 182
digitalcaffeine writes "The Guardian is reporting that US and Russian scientists are planning to launch a spacecraft that will use solar sails to move about in space. This venture, called Cosmos 1, is backed by the Planetary Society and Cosmos Studios. The spacecraft, finally due for launch in late 2004 or early 2005, will use a converted SS-N-18 submarine launched ballistic missile fired from beneath the Barents Sea to get it into a 800 x 1000 km elliptical orbit. It will then unfurl its 15m sails and start moving about. So, for all the governments that have been working on a similar project, the first solar-sailed spacecraft is going to be from a private venture." An update on the official site notes that "The world's first solar sail craft is nearing completion. All electronic systems are now flight qualified and were delivered to the spacecraft for final assembly and testing" - we previously reported on the Cosmos Project and the efficacy of solar sails.
Who retasked the Guidance System? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Who retasked the Guidance System? (Score:2)
(P.S. ^^ Joke)
Re:Who retasked the Guidance System? (Score:2)
But... (Score:5, Funny)
SS-N-18? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:SS-N-18? (Score:3, Funny)
Just like with Columbus... (Score:5, Funny)
Cold War Rockets Better? (Score:5, Insightful)
And was all that talk (Sagan's wife) about it being visible to the world true? Or was it metaphorical? I can't imagine it being THAT big at this point...
Previous failure, visibility (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, it will most likely be visible. You can see satellites every evening. The sail is bigger than the solar panels of most satellites.
Re:Cold War Rockets Better? (Score:2)
Re:Cold War Rockets Better? (Score:2)
Re:Cold War Rockets Better? (Score:2)
Space debris (Score:4, Insightful)
That sail makes a nice big, easy to penetrate target (no BBW jokes, please).
The article describes the sail as thinner than a garbage back. Even the tiniest speck of space junk would would easily blow a hole in this. And, if that happens enough times, and especially with bigger pieces of space junk, won't it be filled with thousands of various sized holes?
It doesn't seem like it's being put into orbit high enough to avoid this kind of damage. Obviously they thought of this... are the holes inconsequential?
Re:Space debris (Score:5, Informative)
Pretty much. The material is so thin, holes made by space debris won't be larger than the debris itself, and most of the stuff up there is sandgrain size or smaller. Given the size of the sail, a bajillion pinholes won't reduce the effective area much.
Japanese solar sail (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Japanese solar sail (Score:4, Insightful)
The mission goal - to fly the first controlled solar sail flight - remains the same.
I guess the "controlled" part is important. The sail itself is actually a set of blades which can be tilted to steer the craft.
Paul B.
Re:Japanese solar sail (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually has anyone been to the space museum beside the meteor crater in Arizona? It lists everything about space except in leaves out one minor detail Russia never went to space apparently
Re:Japanese solar sail (Score:2)
Because the Japanese flight was simply a test of the deployment system. They deployed a sail, then jettisoned it, and deployed another and the mission was over. They never actually used the sails for propulsion.
Solar Sails... (Score:5, Funny)
Where's Samus when you need her?
Re:Solar Sails... (Score:2)
Why use the sub? (Score:2, Interesting)
So why the sub? Extra publicity?
Re:Why use the sub? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, this is what I think is happening, I can't be sure exactly...
Paul.
Re:Why use the sub? (Score:2)
Actually, IIRC modern missiles are designed to be cold-launched from a submerged submarine. Compressed air forces the missiles from the silo and the engine is not ignited until the missile breaks the surface of the water. The earliest generation missiles were hot-launched with the engine ignited within the silo, but tended to cause a lot of damage making for expensive repairs. I'm assuming the same goes for Russian submarines.
Re:Why use the sub? (Score:2)
that's right. CHEAP. of course it's not cheap if you would first build the sub from scratch for it.
but when you can buy services from a sub or the whole damn sub for el cheapo then why not, especially if you get a ballistic missile to use as the rocket base thrown into the deal as well?
Re:Why use the sub? (Score:5, Informative)
Near Earth, Solar Sails are particularly suited for high orbital inclination satellite missions. Weather forecasting and global positioning systems would directly benefit from satellites orbiting the poles. Most satellites take advantage of the natural speed of Earth's rotation to boost them into an orbit relatively close to the equatorial plane. Changing the plane requires a large fuel burn for a conventional rocket and greatly increases launch costs. With its small but continuous thrust, a solar sail can reach polar orbits without a massive fuel payload, making them more accessible to scientific research.
It would appear that the scientists want to insert the satellite into a polar orbit, which is confirmed by the fact that the launch point will be the Barents Sea, part of the Arctic Ocean. Since this location is a rather inhospitable region for a conventional launch, the scientists have rather ingeniously selected a submarine launch. The Russian military is highly likely to be the provider making this available for a "reasonable" price, since the mission is scientific in nature. Thus it poses no threat to them, while providing profit where it is much needed.
The reason for using a ballistic missle is that Russia is brimming with extra ballistic missles. They've been decommisioning hundreds, if not thousands of former nuclear missles over the last couple decades. This does not mean they've destroyed the entire missle, merely that the nuclear warheads have been removed, and they're no longer housed in silos or subs for launch against other countries. Since the rockets were designed to carry nuclear payloads, they are both powerful and highly reliable. This obviously makes them an ideal platform for carrying anything into orbit which they can be fitted to carry.
This situation is really a win-win propostion. The scientists get a powerful, highly reliable launch platform and rocket in an inhospitable launch location for likely a rather sweet price. The Russian military gets rid of a decommisoned rocket they just had laying around anyway, and gets to run one of their subs through a launch test complete with the actual launching of a rocket, plus they make a profit on the deal.
15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:2)
Re:15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:2)
Re:15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:2)
Re:15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:2, Informative)
The key question is the weight of the craft. On the Planetary Society website they state that the mass of their craft is 100kg. Sunlight in Earth orbit is able to exert about 9.12 microNewtons of force per square metre. So a sail 15m^2 will be pushed by up to 137 microNewtons. This tiny force applied to the weight of
Re:15m Solar Sails a bit small? (Score:4, Informative)
Using this technology (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Using this technology (Score:2)
Re:Using this technology (Score:2)
That's why the Planetary Society is involved. Not only does it not need to turn a profit, it isn't allowed to :-)
Re:Using this technology (Score:2)
Space mirrors (Score:2)
Thin film reflective objects in space aren't only potentially useful as a means of propulsion but also as just plain old mirrors.
The Russians tried to deploy a mirror back in 1999. It didn't work but part of the intention was to put a bright "star" in the sky for Siberia so they would have more daylight. Not too bad of an idea if you ask me.
Don't forget the idea of space based solar power generation. You can buy a lot more Myla
Solar sail mechanics? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) The 5 year solar sail propelled mission to Pluto - is there a way to decelerate as you reach Pluto? Actually, is it really 5 years constant thrust or does the solar sail's thrust decrease as an inverse square law as you get more distant from the sun?
2) Can you sail "upstream" into the solar wind? Is it possible to tack and jibe in a solar sail propelled craft?!
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:3, Informative)
How? The flight path is always away from the Sun when you're on your way to pluto.
No solar sail could ever fully oppose the Sun's gravity unless it was, I dunno, half the size of Jupiter's orbit or something. OK, maybe not that large. But it'd be huge.
All you're doing is adding to your orbital speed by tilting the sail to accelerate along that direction. So you slowly spiral outwards.
To return, you just do the opposite: slow your rotation, and you spiral inward. You'll have to be careful to alter orbit
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:4, Informative)
2: Tacking in a water-based sailboat uses the water to prevent lateral motion. Try sailing without any sort of keel/centerboard or asymmetric hulls or rudder--you can't go towards the wind this way. Hmmm...I wonder if chemical or ion propulsion could be used as lateral resistance with solar sails in an analog to hybrid gas/electric cars...would there be any economy or advantage to that?
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
I have heard it commented elsewhere that it may be possible to use gravity as the countering force for tacking with a solar sail. Does anyone know if this is possible, or is it just a bad sci-fi element?
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
Sounds reasonable to me, but I'm too tired to imagine all the vectors. However with water this is lateral resistance for any direction when the keel/centerboard is deployed or if an asymmetrical hull is under way, but with a solar sail gravity won't be as convenient as water.
By the way, in another thread
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
1) bollucks. Simple physics shows you need to lose speed. Thrusters, or (more risky) atmosphere.
Actually, no. The objective is to spiral out towards Pluto. With the right timing as the probe is approaching Pluto's orbit, Pluto overtakes and captures the probe in it's gravity.
It's a good thing since with Pluto, atmospheric braking is not an option.
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
Well you could arrange to arrive with enough velocity to enter orbit around Pluto. That's not slowing down, you just start going in circles.
As for coming back, I don't know how. I don't think you can tack back, as doing so in a boat relies upon the force of the water against your boat. There's no water in space so I don't think that will work.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Solar sail mechanics? (Score:2)
Actually, it's yes: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~diedrich/solarsails/ i ntro/tacking.html [caltech.edu]
In space, there is no "water" for a rudder to work in
Actually, there kindof is : because all motion around the Sun is necessarily rotational (especially if you launch from Earth!), your tangential velocity is essentially your "water" - to fall inward, you angle the sail so that it slows you down, rotationally.
You could always cut the sail and let the Sun's gravity slow you...
Things going
Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:5, Interesting)
Though Solar Sails are often associated with interstellar travel they have many extremely useful applications in Earth orbit and local solar system exploration. Most potential applications take advantage of the continuous thrust and zero fuel payload of a solar sail.
Near Earth, Solar Sails are particularly suited for high orbital inclination satellite missions. Weather forecasting and global positioning systems would directly benefit from satellites orbiting the poles. Most satellites take advantage of the natural speed of Earth's rotation to boost them into an orbit relatively close to the equatorial plane. Changing the plane requires a large fuel burn for a conventional rocket and greatly increases launch costs. With its small but continuous thrust, a solar sail can reach polar orbits without a massive fuel payload, making them more accessible to scientific research.
Away from Earth, Solar Sails offer a number of other interesting options. Missions have been proposed for asteroid rendezvous, travel to the inner planets (yes, solar sails can travel toward the sun), and an interesting idea using Lagrange points. More advanced solar sails could use their continuous thrust to enlarge the regions where they are able to "hover" well away from Earth. This allows much better observation of solar activity. Solar sails not only have an appealing sci-fi flair, but appear to be quite practical as well. I hope to see the technology develop rapidly.
Re:Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:3, Interesting)
Um, how? I just got done posting that you couldn't sail into the "wind" without some form of lateral resistance. Inquiring minds want to know...
Or is it just a matter of using solar energy to slow down solar orbiting speed to 'fall' towards the sun?
Re:Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:4, Informative)
well. yes, no.. (Score:3, Informative)
My second thought said 'no'. This had something to do with the way the sails work.
The wind blows against the sail and behind the sail a lower air-pressure (wing effect) pulls the boat forward. But there is also a pushing effect against the sail... So this was BS.
But why does a sailboat sail into the wind? Resistance of the water. It's the shape of the boat, combined with the rudder combined with the resistance of the water that resolves in a forward force. This only works is
Re:well. yes, no.. (Score:3, Informative)
Now, you can also use a solar sail to slow down your orbital speed, meaning you will fall into the sun. So with combined left-right movement, alternately slowing down and speeding up orbital momentum, falling and then accelerating out, you could conceivably traverse the whole spect
Re:well. yes, no.. (Score:2)
An other question is how to ajust the position of the sail. but thide things can be worked out
Re:well. yes, no.. (Score:2)
I think I'll read http://solarsails.jpl.nasa.gov/introduction/how-s
Re:Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:2)
It's just like rockets, really. They don't accelerate directly towards the sun either, they just adjust their orbit.
Re:Interesting Uses for Solar Sails (Score:2)
Power (Score:2)
Private company? (Score:4, Funny)
Osama Bin Laden
Helpful (Score:4, Funny)
Japan and NASA (Score:2)
Good layman's discussion... (Score:2, Informative)
Solar sails delivering a 0.001G acceleration are feasible - and yes, you *want* constant acceleration, not kick and coast. At that lousy 1/1000G you get a round trip to Pluto in about 3.5 years. Of course that puts the asteroid belt much, much closer...
3 1/2 years is the same time scale wind-powered ships were on in the 1600-1800's. It made the whole Earth accessible then. The solar sails can
Hope they gave NORAD notice first (Score:2)
"Take us to Defcon 1! Alert the President! Get Major Kong airborne! Bring the WOPR online! Activate the Stargate!"
How solar sails work (Score:2)
IANARS (Score:2)
Even in a relatively rich environment like a solar system, you're going to lose thrust the farther away from the sun you travel.
Re:IANARS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:IANARS (Score:3)
Besides, it should see lots of stuff on its way out.
Re:IANARS (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, light alone is sufficient to produce thrust. The problem is that at 1.3kw/m^2 (the power that reaches Earth), you're not going to go very fast with the mass of the solar sails added on.
I've been keeping an eye on Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion (M2P2) [washington.edu] technology, myself. Basically, it uses an EM field to increase the surface area of the ship without the added weight of solar sails. As a bonus, the ship is protected from the most common forms of radiation and cosmic rays. The concept is particularly interesting when one digs the Orion concept out of memory.
The biggest problems with Orion were plate ablation and scalability concerns (scaling DOWN, not up). With an M2P2 shield, you could use larger pulsed units, and there's no plate to erode. As a bonus, radiation protection comes as a nice side-effect. (Although some steel would still be needed to block neutron radiation.)
Re:IANARS (Score:5, Informative)
It's much worse than that. Solar sails don't convert the energy of the light, they just receive momentum from the light as it bounces off. The momentum is equal to the energy of the light divided by the speed of light.
Re:IANARS (Score:2)
Supposedly plate ablation can be avoided by spraying a thin coat of oil on the plate between pulses.
Of course, it's never going to be a popular idea for ground-launched vehicles. Can't beat it for raw power, though. I say we buil
Re:IANARS (Score:3, Interesting)
1. You have to calculate the effective range. i.e. The pulse units must be exploded far enough back so that the pulse doesn't damage the craft.
2. Orions aren't actually propelled by the explosion. The pulse units are sort of "shaped
Re:IANARS (Score:2)
Tacking with a solar sail is possible, but the physics is different. First of all, you can't
Re:IANARS (Score:2)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:5, Informative)
Within the solar system, the idea is you get the solar wind to push hard enough to achieve a certain speed, then you furl the sails and it coasts into the new orbit.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:2)
As for optimal missions, I'd disagree with that. Optimal would be a direct shot out to whatever planet you wanted to. But that would be VERY energy expensive -- but it would be optimal. Instead, we give a little nudge here
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:2)
Re:Wind gusts (Score:3, Informative)
Snopes [snopes.com]
Link [earthlink.net]
Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Always under way. (Score:3, Informative)
But the solar sail is *always* accelerating under these forces. If you get a "gust" you simply reduce sail for a while and adjust trim until you're back on the or
Re:Wind gusts (Score:4, Funny)
Don't forget that God looks like a few stars that light up when he talks.
You really should stop sitting in front of Christmas trees while on acid.
Re:Wind gusts (Score:3, Informative)
There are no breaks, but you CAN use it to manuver in any direction that is not 'up wind'.
No.
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~diedrich/solarsails/ i ntro/tacking.html [caltech.edu]
Solar sails can tack, because slowing your orbital velocity moves you closer to the Sun. If you put the sail at an angle such that majority of the light pressure opposes your direction of motion, you will move inward.
So to slow down, you just alter the angle of the sail. Easy enough.
Re:Wind gusts (Score:2)
For example, if you have reached solar escape velocity, it doesn't seem like there would be anything you could do to prevent escape.
Re: (Score:2)
Theme song (Score:2, Funny)
come sail away
come sail away
Come sail away with me [pipex.com]
Re:Mars? (Score:2)
There are better faster cheaper safer solutions than building Battlestar Galactica in orbit. Unfortunately, defense contractors don't get gigabucks for fielding practical solutions...they get gigabucks for fielding solutions that have subcontractors in every single congresscritter's district.
Hell of a way to run a railroad.
Re:Mars? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Mars? (Score:2)
Wherever they want to go.
Re:Mars? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of Those! (Score:2)
Re:World's First? (Score:2)
Re:World's First? (Score:3, Informative)
must be cheap (Score:2)
Perfect solution for this case (Score:2)
The reason for using a ballistic missle is that Russia is brimming with extra ballistic missles. They've been decommisioning hundreds, if not thousands of former nuclear missles over the last couple decades. This does not mean they've destroyed the entire missle, merely that the nuclear warheads have been removed, and they're no longer housed in silos or subs for launch against other countries. Since the rockets were designed to carry nuclear payloads
Why the Polar Orbit/Barents Sea? (Score:2)