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Space Science Technology

Best Images Yet Of Saturn's Moon Titan 156

Posted by timothy from the spaceporn dept.
DoraLives writes "During recent commissioning observations of a new instrument designed for a completely different purpose, the European Southern Observatory managed to grab the best imagery yet of Saturn's largest moon. Although the imagery bears more than just a passing resemblance to some of the quainter maps of other planets there's no denying the superb, sub tenth arcsecond, resolution of the new images. And of course, if that's not good enough, they're sending a a little something to land on Titan next January. Should be interesting."
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Best Images Yet Of Saturn's Moon Titan More

Best Images Yet Of Saturn's Moon Titan

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  • "Images" (Score:1, Interesting)

    by tronicum ( 617382 ) *
    I refer Images to something where you can actually can see something. These look like rendered bit-stacks I remember from old intros. (plasma-effect).

    Until this probe in January brings something where you can actually see something these pictures are useless like some radar-telescope probes from a "new found star" somebody might have found.

    • yes...but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Polkyb ( 732262 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:45AM (#8981251)

      Like the article says...

      ...these new observations will be most useful for the planning of the delivery of the Huygens probe - now approaching the Saturn system on the NASA/ESA Cassini spacecraft and scheduled for descent to Titan's surface in early 2005.

      Some information, whatever the quality, is ALWAYS better than no information at all

    • "actually can see something"

      What do you expect? To see little aliens holding up signs?

      The images were aquired ussing the ESA's VLA telescope with ground based observing. You can see details of the surface of the moon from the ground. Don't criticize the images unless you understand them. From your post, I am not convinced you understand what was involved in taking these images.

      • Re:"Images" (Score:5, Informative)

        by Agent Orange ( 34692 ) <christhom@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @04:52AM (#8981477)
        For god's sake, can we all please get our acronyms correct! This is important for astronomers, since we use a lot of them.

        ESA = European Space Agency (space based missions, including a share of hubble)
        ESO = European Southern Observatory (i.e. Astronomers and telescopes)
        VLA = the Very Large Array, a ***RADIO*** telescope run by the NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory). NRAO and VLA are run by americans. The VLA is in soccorro, new mexico.
        VLT = the Very Large Telescope. 4 8m ***OPTICAL*** telescopes in chile. Using NACO, which is an adaptive-optics systems, you can partially get around atmospheric problems and take high-resolution images.
      • I don't know about you, but *I* can see the brain-slugs on the surface and their flying saucers. (Heinlein, The Puppet Masters)

    • Re:"Images" (Score:3, Interesting)

      by piper-noiter ( 772438 )

      Saw a cool show at the planetarium on the up coming Cassini, Huygens mission. One of the better planetarium shows I've seen.

      Cassini will circle Saturn for a long time, 4 years I think, and then if it still works they will send it on a risky mission. My favorite was sending it through the large Cassini Gap in Saturn's rings. Think of the images it could collect of the rings at that range!

      Then there is the ever popluar suiside mission into planet's dense center. Sending an orbiter hurling into the planet's

      • I don't think we will see the surface, won't it die before it lands?

        I don't think there is a parachute.

        Someone correct me if I am wrong

        --JOey

        • Huygens will take over 2,000 pictures (again, I don't remember the exact number) from the air of the surface of Titan. At that point in the show, I turned to my friend wispering, '2,000 desktops.' He called me a nerd.

          It does have a parachute, 2-3 depending on how you count. Now surviving the landing... thats a different story.

    • Obviously an Amiga owner ;)
    • Thank you, that's exactly what I thought....


      I thought it was a freakin Rorschach test or something.

  • Hoax (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    These images were mocked up in the GIMP.

  • Mandatory 2001/2010 Joke (Score:5, Funny)

    by BuddieFox ( 771947 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:13AM (#8981125)
    they're sending a a little something to land on Titan next January.

    Well, we should be glad they are not attempting to land on Europa.

  • I wonder... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Op7imus_Prim3 ( 645940 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:13AM (#8981126) Journal
    How many posts till somebody mentions new pictures of Uranus and links to goatse?
  • Jesse Jackson offers his services to negotiate a peace treaty between the microbes on Titan and the humans on Earth..

  • Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Steve the Rocket Sci ( 770940 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:16AM (#8981141)
    Considering the immense distance between Earth and Titan, it is incredible that we can use radar to see any surface detail at all. If the results from the ESA's Huygens probe are interesting enough, perhaps a Titan-dedicated mission with multiple entry probes and full radar mapping will be commissioned in the next decade.

    • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)

      by VanillaCoke420 ( 662576 )
      That would be great. Possible boats, u-boats, balloons, landers, even sample returns. Of course this wont happen anytime soon. :( I also want to see dedicated probes for Neptune and Uranus. To see those geysers on Triton up close would be excellent.

  • Provisional Names! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:23AM (#8981169)
    the SDI team [1] has referred to these features informally as: the "lying H", the "dog" chasing a "ball", and the "dragon's head".

    I propose some other provisional names:

    • Blobby bit
    • Other blobby bit
    • Fuzzy Stuff
    • More Fuzzy stuff that looks like a little like a boob.
    I think these give a better description of the so-called features.
    • Heh, "ball." Clever. Just once, I'd like to see an astronomer with a sense of humor -- they could've called it "cylinder seen from above," or "supersized singularity."

      The others really do look like what they named them tough. But I wish they would've named the "Lying H" a "Lazy H" instead, to fit the cowboy standard.
      • I love it how when we're just talking about science (this story), fewer then 100 people post comments. But when you bring religion into it (the Mt. Ararat story), all the sudden everyone's an expert.

    • Re:Provisional Names! (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I propose a petition to NASA for renaming the "dragon's head" to Trogdor

  • Just a little bit more resolution (Score:4, Funny)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:25AM (#8981178)
    Just a little bit more resolution, and you'll be able to read the sign in the lower right corner that states: PRIVATE PROPERTY - NO TRESSPASSING.

  • 0 degree longitude (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zarniwhoop ( 698439 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:26AM (#8981183)
    I noticed one of the images superimposed with latitude and longitudes. Who decides (and how) where the 0 degree longitude is on astronomical bodies?
  • Where are the sirens? [amazon.com]

  • Maybe a bit off topic... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Phidoux ( 705500 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @03:41AM (#8981238) Homepage
    ... but this is another source of fantastic pics that have been taken of various objects in our solar system

    NASA Planetary Photojournal [nasa.gov]
  • looking at titan, i can't help but wonder why sedna or pluto/charon might be considered a planet, a peer of earth, while something like titan is a mere moon.. it is phenomenal, it is a planet in mind, and deserves that recognition

    additionally, jupiter is not a peer of earth either

    just a thought, but don't you think it's time to rework the nomenclature of orbitting bodies? especially as we dsicover more extrasolar orbitting bodies, perhaps in multiple star systems, perhaps with radical orbital arrangements

    here's my 2 cents:

    gas giant: anything mostly gas
    planet: anything round and mostly solid with an atmosphere
    moon: anything solid and round but without an atmosphere
    asteroid: anything not round

    and all of these classifications are regardless of what they orbit, or their size (although the sizes tend to follow natural upper and lower bounds due to planetary evolution)

    so in this nomenclature, mercury is a moon, while titan is a planet

    additionally, you could do some sort of indication like: earth is a primary system planet, while titan is a secondary system planet... mercury would be a primary system moon

    one day we may find teriary systems in other solar systems

    am i crazy?

    it just seems to me titan deserves to be our peer, while pluto/ charon does not

    and it's not thinking earth-centric that is motivating me, it is simply thinking that as we discover more and more planetary bodies, we need a naming system, even if just shorthand, that is more realistic: titan is no mere moon, and sedna/ pluto-charon are just not planets
    • Actually with this system,

      Mercure would be a planet and our Moon wouldn't be a moon. Because both Mercure and Moon does have a tenuous atmosphere.

      Planets are some of the objects orbiting around a star. moons are objects in rotation around planetary objects. There are some criteria that helps to diffenciate a planet from a stellar object:

      And to define what is a planet in OUR solar system, we can't use criteria such as astomosphere. Simply because many of the objects in our solar system have a tenous atmos

    • Re:dredging up the sedna debate (Score:5, Informative)

      by Penguinshit ( 591885 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @04:29AM (#8981398) Homepage Journal

      Titan directly orbits Saturn, making it a moon of a planet (Saturn). The Earth directly orbits the Sun, making it a planet (with its own moon). Pluto directly orbits the Sun, making it a planet. It's companion, Charon, directly orbits it, making Charon the moon of Pluto.

      Relative sizes aren't the issue -- the center of the orbit of the body is.
      • Actually both the Earth and Moon orbit the common center, which happens to locate inside the Earth, but not in the centre.

        Maybe in the systems where the weight difference of planet and its moon is smaller, both orbit a point outside of both bodies. Maybe Pluto and Charon do this. Which one is the planet an which one the moon then?

        • Actually both the Earth and Moon orbit the common center, which happens to locate inside the Earth, but not in the centre.

          Actually the Earth orbits the Sun. The Moon orbits the Earth which orbits the Sun. mmkay.

          • Re:dredging up the sedna debate (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Scarblac ( 122480 ) <slashdot@gerlich.nl> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:06AM (#8981685) Homepage

            Actually the Earth orbits the Sun. The Moon orbits the Earth which orbits the Sun. mmkay.

            Actually, the moon's orbit around the sun is convex [nus.edu.sg]; the Sun's gravitational pull is larger than the Earth's. The moon also orbits the Sun, together with the Earth; they switch relative positions a few times per year. That's why the Moon and Earth are sometimes referred to as binary planets.

          • Re:dredging up the sedna debate (Score:4, Informative)

            by Ralp ( 541345 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:10AM (#8981697) Homepage Journal

            Sorry to spoil what you learned in third grade, but the earth and moon primarily orbit each other. The moon's gravitational influence upon our planet is significantly stronger than that of the sun. High tide isn't caused by the sun, is it?

            (Well, actually "neap tides" are caused by the sun and moon working against each other. But the moon wins out, due to its proximity.)

            • Sorry to spoil what you learned (incorrectly) in third grade, but the earth primarily orbits the sun. Who in their right mind would call the moon the center of earth's planetary system? The sun's gravity is orders of magnitude larger than the moon's, and even being ~500 times farther away doesn't mitigate that sufficiently.

              The thing that makes Luna more of a factor in Terra's tides than Sol is that (in lay terms) the difference in gravitational pull from one side of earth to the other is greater in the

              • Whoops, thanks for the correction. This time I decided to do actually do the math to see where I went wrong. I used the following figures:

                • Mean distance between earth and moon: 384400km
                • Mean distance between sun and earth/moon: 149600000km
                • Mass of sun, earth, moon: 2e30kg, 6e24kg, 7.4e22kg

                And I came up with the following (I am not an astrophysicist, but I play one on the internet):

                • Gravitational force of sun on earth: 3.5e22N
                • Gravitational force of moon on earth: 2e20N
                • Gravitational force of sun on moo
        • Well, true enough, but then every pair of bodies can be said to be orbiting a common center ... even, to take an extreme example, Pluto and the Sun. And generalizing, you can say we're all orbiting the common center of the Milky Way ... except the Milky Way and all the other nearby galaxies are orbiting their common center ... etc.

          Maybe in the systems where the weight difference of planet and its moon is smaller, both orbit a point outside of both bodies. Maybe Pluto and Charon do this. Which one is the

      • in the end... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by crayz ( 1056 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @04:47AM (#8981463) Homepage
        ...they're just hunks of rock or gas or whatever moving around according to the laws of physics. What we call them is just what we find most preferable. The universe couldn't care less
    • here's my 2 cents:

      gas giant: anything mostly gas
      planet: anything round and mostly solid with an atmosphere
      moon: anything solid and round but without an atmosphere
      asteroid: anything not round

      Our definitions are based on our discoveries and knowledge. It makes sense that if we are going to try to classify everything, then we must have some sort of reference. Earth is decided to be a planet. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus as well, and that was way before we knew anything abo

    • ...into a neatly packaged feudal society.

      Does this mean that earthlings would not be able sit at the same table as those inferior plutonians?
    • here's my 2 cents:

      gas giant: anything mostly gas
      planet: anything round and mostly solid with an atmosphere
      moon: anything solid and round but without an atmosphere
      asteroid: anything not round
      Shut up already!

      You'll have Lucas sell us a reworked DVD set that includes the "Forest planet of Endor"!
    • Of course, Pluto has an atmosphere, something that screws up your little attempt to knock it off the planetary list.
      • And also, a planet doesn't have to have an atmosphere. I don't think it should be considered a planet either, but that's mostly because it's more like a KBO.
        • Nah, the parent of my post defined planets as "things with atmospheres" in an attempt to include Titan and (inferring from the rest of his post, specifically his derogatory manner towards Pluto/Charon/Sedna) disinclude Pluto. I agree, a planet doesn't need to have an atmosphere; my main criteria is sized large enough to be rounded by gravity, and having an orbit (or in the case of near-binaries like Pluto/Charon, the binary center) around the star at the center of the system. Probably by my criteria Sedna
          • I agree that there are historical reasons to keep Pluto classified as a planet, even after the discovery of the Kuiper belt. And it could very well be a planet by my own personal (and unofficial, of course) criteria, that is, it's somewhat round and orbits a star. But is size and orbit the only things to consider? I mean we have the Kuiper belt and almost certainly the Oort cloud, full of large and small dusty/icey bodies. In my view, both Pluto and Sedna fit in that category. What if we discover a Kuiper o
            • I think that the whole "pluto is not a planet, because there may be more objects like pluto out there" is based less on reason, then on some sort of visceral discomfort with the idea of a solar system with dozens of planets rather than a tidy 9.

              For me, the best argument is that an object large enough to round its self off is likely to be structurally different from an oblong conglomerate. Compaction produces heat, which gets to the surface through some mechanism. The surface/volume ratio of larger bodies
              • But at the same time I see people who want Pluto to remain a planet for the same reason, that is, they want to keep it at 9 because it's always been 9 and so on. I could accept roundness to be a criteria, but then again how round is round enough? The result is that we have no idea how many planets we have. Is Pluto round enough? Is Sedna round enough? What about other large KBO's? I'm just saying size and roundness is not the only criteria I would look at, especially not since we could end up with hundreds
    • While Penguinshit gives the standard, uncontestable, response, I like your naming conventions better. In addition, I wonder what will be said when a round object with atmosphere is found to orbit the galactic center. Going by Penguinshit's definitions, this hypothetical object will need a new name (unless he wants to call it a star), while according to your definitions, this object would still be called a planet. Just idle speculation. This type of reassessment won't gain traction until more is known about
    • The debate over the name planet is just as silly as the debate over the word "marriage." It just doesn't matter.
    • In Gravity Rules: The Nature and Meaning of Planethood [spacedaily.com] planetary scientist S. Alan Stern argues that since we distinguish planets from stars (enough mass to get majority of energy from sustained fusion), we should also use mass to distinguish planets from non-planets: enough mass to pull body into spherical shape.

      One can calculate the minimum size body that will become rounded by its own gravity starting from very basic principles of physics. Doing so, you find the boundary is a diameter of a few hundred

  • Land on Titan? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Maybe they'll find the Ark of Noah there.

  • Food for Celestia :-) (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @04:00AM (#8981302) Journal
    This could be useful as texture map addons to Celestia [shatters.net], along with textures from Planet Portal [marketingden.com], etc...

    Also, don't miss this site [solarviews.com] for your amateur astronomy needs. :-)

  • That should be good enough resolution to see ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by L0stb0Y ( 108220 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @04:15AM (#8981343) Journal
    ...the monolith -

  • First comment from the scientists: (Score:5, Funny)

    by kekeruusperi ( 771725 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @05:41AM (#8981620)
    "That's no moon!"

  • USA (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:01AM (#8981672)
    I don't see how the Europeans can name the features, when Titan is clearly the property of the US.
    • I agree whole-heartedly. And its so nice that you should all move there immediately. And I give you full permission, on behalf of all Europeans to call it whatever you like. Now shut the door the door after you.

  • Titan (Score:4, Funny)

    by lechuck80 ( 672996 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @06:38AM (#8981824)
    Better make sure that when they send the probe they include a hand crafted replacment part for Salo.
    • This isn't "interesting," it's funny - the only interesting thing about the posting is that the guy has taste. It's another reference to Vonnegut's *Sirens of Titan*.
  • Small European lander piggybacked on orbiter hurtles towards atmosphere of distant body and automagically turns itself on at just the right moment.

    Why am I not very confident?
    • On the plus side Huygens was engineered very differently to Beagle, and has a lot more redundancy. Also the atmosphere of Titan is a lot denser than Mars. On the minus side Huygens has been in deep space a lot longer (launched well before Beagle), and there are uncertainties about the atmosphere of Titan. One common factor is that Beagle did inherit some code (or at least code design) from Huygens. Unfortunately neither Huygens nor Beagle designs support telemetry during entry phase. The USA learnt this les

  • Bush sending ship to Titan... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Yeah, Bush heard there were WMD's there!

  • More evidence of oceans? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by amightywind ( 691887 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:58AM (#8983384) Journal

    These results are amazing. Notice that the thermal dark areas show clear embayment relationships to the brighter thermal areas. This is just what you would expect to see if the dark regions are liquid oceans and the bright regions are icy highlands.

  • Venus (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Yanray ( 686150 )
    Couldn't this technology be used to effectively map volcanic movements of Venus? It does provide high resoution imaging through dense atmospheres. We could get some nice realtime imaging of Venusian volcanic flows.
    • My guess is that Venus's thicker atmosphere and pressure broadening of the CO2 spectral lines (surface pressure Venus's 90 atm. vs. Titan's 1.6 atm), and additional absorption lines from the sulfuric acid droplets makes the Venusian atmosphere optically thick at all IR wavelengths.

  • Oil! Oil! Let's Go! (Score:5, Funny)

    by bbsguru ( 586178 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:37AM (#8983850) Homepage Journal
    I can't beleive no one has posted this yet: The quoted article said:
    "Of particular interest are several large "dark" areas of uniformly low reflectivity. One possible interpretation is that they represent huge surface reservoirs of liquid hydrocarbons."
    It's Oil!

    I hereby claim this moon in the name of Texaco.

    If we can build a highway to get there, we'll be able to fill up and come back!

  • But did that map remind anyone else of Star Control II? A planet like that would be rich in what, actinides? I forget...
  • Wouldn't be nice if the "dragon's head" feature would be named Trogdor the Burninator http://www.homestarrunner.com/trogdor.html

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