Melting Europa 698
amigoro writes "After having contaminated Earth's Oceans, it seems that there are plans to send a probe drilling through Europa's ice sheet and explore the purported ocean below the crust. The plan seems to be to find Life there. But I wonder how long the time lag will be between the probe finding life, and a leak in the radioactive heater wiping all of it out."
Hmmmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Say it with me now.
DAMN HIPPIES!
The Monolith (Score:4, Funny)
Biased Poster? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the point is...? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are a few points which I would like clarified by someone who is perhaps knowledgeable. For one, landing a spacecraft on Europa, where we have little knowledge of its atmospheric conditions, will be a formidable challenge. (We've lost many Mars-intended missions due to that.) How can we plan for that?
Secondly, I don't think it's known how deep the ice goes? Is there a plan for if the ice is a foot thick? How about 10 feet? How about 1000?
Next, can we still transmit a signal back if we have to take a probe that far underwater?
Notwithstanding a Europan shark eating the probe, I think there are some serious scientific reasons to be concerned about the search for life on one of the solar system's most likely candidates -- and we should ask ourselves if we're taking the best approach for a multi-hundred-million dollar mission?
Re:But the point is...? (Score:3, Funny)
landing a spacecraft on Europa, where we have little knowledge of its atmospheric conditions, will be a formidable challenge.
Like killer aliens terraforming the universe? I swear those eggheads can't read:
Re:But the point is...? (Score:4, Informative)
When he presented some of his stuff that I got to see, he said that the ice covering Europa was thick. VERY thick. Probably on the 1000 feet or greater kind of thick, though I admit that I cannot remember exactly.
I think that communcations was going to be a relaying deal, with something on the surface of Europa relaying back to Earth, so the ROV wouldn't have to try to transmit on its own.
Re:But the point is...? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, we have very good knowledge of Europa's atmospheric conditions, i.e. it doesn't have one (well, no more so than our own moon). On a side note, the vast majority of failed Mars missions were lost not because of the difficulties of navigating the atmosphere but because of things like a rocket motor blowing up, or an incorrect course adjustment, these problems occuring well before any martian atmosphere was encountered.
Estimates for the thickness of the ice on Europa vary, but think kilometers, not meters, except for a few areas, like the so-called Conemara cliffs region, were it could be much thiner, possibly due to a local hot spot.
Re:But the point is...? (Score:5, Informative)
Martian atmospheric conditions are rather important for landing probes.
And to the previous poster, well it turns out that Europa has an atmosphere. Galileo returned data on the ionosphere and atmospheric conditions on Europa, that is why further study is needed on such atmosphere as the original poster in this thread sugested.
Re:But the point is...? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Biased Poster? (Score:5, Funny)
Geez....
Better be careful (Score:5, Funny)
Cripes (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cripes (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cripes (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Cripes (Score:5, Funny)
Tired arms I can deal with, its the crotch splinters which are the real problem.
Re:Cripes (Score:5, Funny)
Err, it's hug, not hump, it's a common mistake...
Reminds me of a joke (Score:5, Funny)
When Jane initially met Tarzan of the Jungle, she was immediately attracted to him, and during her questions about his life, she asked him how he had sex.
"Tarzan not know sex," he replied.
Jane explained to him what sex was.
Tarzan said, "Oh... Tarzan use hole in trunk of tree."
Horrified, she said, "Tarzan you have it all wrong, but I will show you how to do it properly." She took off her clothes and laid down on the ground. Here" she said, "you must put it in here!"
Tarzan removed his loincloth...stepped closer with his huge manhood and then gave her an almighty kick right in the crotch.
Jane rolled around in agony for what seemed like an eternity Eventually she managed to gasp for air and screamed, "What in the Hell did you do that for?!"
"Tarzan check for bees."
Forget them (Score:5, Funny)
Question... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Question... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Question... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Question... (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be a lot of money, and there may be more important ways to spend it (for some definitions of 'important', anyway), but to not seek the answer is to deny an important part of our humanness.
Not everyone buys this, or ever has. But not everyone has to, just like not everyone has to buy great art.
J.
Re:Question... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm very interested in discovering life elsewhere. But I cringe when someone suggests sending billions of dollars to damn near every planet or moon in the solar system just because it seems like it might have had life at some point.
If there's some evidence pointing at Europa as a good candidate (more than the article describes), I'm unaware of it. Hence, the concern.
Re:Question... (Score:3, Insightful)
They "know" that it's there because the crack/stress patterns visible in the ice could "only" have been produced if the ice was floating.
(Yes yes, they don't really know it - they are guessing, but they are well informed guesses).
Liquid water means that there is a good chance for life - the temperature is reasonable, there's oxygen, etc etc.
The article doesn't describe it because it's a very well accepted/established conjecture that liquid water means a high pro
It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to see the leaky probe that could rival Jupiter itself [space.com] in bombarding Europa with radiation.
Awww, don't look so down. I'm sure there are plenty of other snide quips to be made about our foolish, short-sighted engineers wiping out Life As We Don't Know It.
Consider the possibility of a dihydrogen monoxide leak, for example...
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but that's *natural* radiation, not the unhealthy manmade stuff.
Wait, I see a tree that needs a hug. See ya!
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Interesting)
If there is anything down there on Europa, it will probably eat the nuclear leakage for dinner and come back for seconds.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:3, Insightful)
Between 30,000 and 100,000 Germans were killed in the Dresden firestorm in WWII.
I guess we should give up fire, too?
Kee-rist.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:4, Informative)
Bringing weapons and disasters into the nuclear power argument is useless - a lot of things that we currently use to generate power on a large scale (petroleum, coal, hydro dams, fission, Cowboyneal's toenail clippings) create nasty waste and have the potential for environmental and human disaster. You buy into that risk, like it or not, if you use electricity from the grid.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Interesting)
Except any life on Europa will have evolved away from that radiation since its protected by almost 20km of ice.
The real threat of any contamination from a probe is not so much from radiation as from heavy metals leaching into the environment, but then if the floor of the Europan ocean is anything like the black smokers [amnh.org] of Earth's oceans any life should be used to heavy metals.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:4, Insightful)
The real threat of contamination is that unless the probe is absolutely, completely sterilized we'll never be sure whether life we find on Europa was "native" or came from Earth. Any other contamination of radiation, heavy metals, etc etc etc is irrelevant... it's not like one probe is going to contaminate the entire moon.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Insightful)
Suppose we look at the worst-case scenario. There's life on Europa to endanger. Probe melts through. Probe lands on sea floor. Probe just happens to land near a vent with a population of living organisms, where it fails catastrophically and spews its deadly cargo.
Folks, Europa's oceans are big and deep. We're talking about a volume of water that exceeds all the water on Earth by an order of magnitude. If the Europan ecosystem is fragile enough to be destroyed by anything humans can put in a package small enough to send to the seafloor, life on Europa would either be undetectable -- because there's so little of it that the odds of landing on it are nearly zero, or life on Europa would already be extinct.
Look at Earth. We detonated atomic bombs both above and below the ocean surface, spraying tons of transuranics into our seas and atmosphere. It may have sucked to have been a coral at Bikini Atoll in the 50s, but the ecosystem didn't even blink, and in fact, the Atoll is one of the planet's greatest recreational diving sites.
If life doesn't exist on Europa, who cares - there's nothing to contaminate.
If life does exist on Europa, and there's so little of it that we can't find it, odds are our probe isn't going to harm it, because we're going to be thousands of miles and trillions of gallons of water away from it. No harm.
If life exists on Europa and it's sufficiently omnipresent in the Europan biosphere that our probe lands on enough of lifeforms to detect them, then it won't matter if the probe is made out of tofu from sustainably-grown soy fields, or if it contains a nuclear bomb that detonates and vaporizes everything within 10 miles -- a Europan biosphere, like the Terran one, is big enough to take anything we're capable of throwing at it.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Funny)
Especially convenient is the fact that after a few hours of diving there you grow your own flippers.
I keed, I keed.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:3, Insightful)
People have so little sense of perspective.
The sort of people worried about contaminating a planet-sized body with a meters-long probe are the same sort of people who argue evolution can't possibly take place (in our universe of trillions of stars) because it's statistacally "one in a million".
TW
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:4, Informative)
>
> You're pretty ignorant, aren't you? Why not look at how the tests changed the lives of many of the people living around the test areas.
I did say "It sucked to be there in the 50s". OK, so it also sucked to be a primate, as well a coral-secreting organism :-)
> One minute with Google would have disclosed plenty of information to rebut that ridiculous claim.
Yeah, he's trolling.
But for those who might have fallen for his troll, sure. Just enter bikini atoll diving [google.com] into Google.
You get back dozens of sites, not the least of which include www.bikiniatoll.com [bikiniatoll.com] and Pacific Island Travel [pacificislandtravel.com], specifically touting the former nuclear test site as one of the world's premier dive locations.
STOP ALL EXPLORATION NOW (Score:5, Funny)
Relax. Europa's not going anywhere. (Score:5, Funny)
2. What next? Drill Sedna for oil?"--There must have been life for there to be oil, you insensitive clod! Oh wait, maybe that is why they're so desparate to find evidence of life elsewhere!
Re:Relax. Europa's not going anywhere. (Score:4, Funny)
First, for fans who came to the game late: the quote "What next? Drill Sedna for oil?" was in the original version of the story, but was removed after a few minutes. This is known in the business as "closing the barn door after the cat is out of the bag and turning your butt into hamburger."
Anyway, back to the oil. This story [space.com] about Sedna's discovery points out that the planet(oid) is very dark and very red. Don't forget the far-out but plausible theory that Earth's hydrocarbons came from comets [harvard.edu], not dinosaurs.
Now imagine... what if Sedna is a big ball of frozen, red transmission fluid [aamco.com]? I see NASA getting some new funding for KBO research real quick!
Oh That's Right, Oil Percolates From Mantle! (Score:5, Interesting)
Biogenic assumes that living things die, are deeply buried in the crust, rot, and in so doing create various hydrocarbons. Abiogenic assumes that primordial material from the creation of the planet are cooked and rise into the crust. This theory posits that biological microfossils found in petroleum are leeched from the crust by the flow, rather than being one of the byproducts of biogenic rot.
Kooks like J. F. Kenney grasp at old research by a few Soviet geologist to claim that abiogenic reserves are being constantly replenished more quickly than even our current rate of extraction(1) [gasresources.net].
The vast majority of geologists would say that while research confirms that abiogenic formation of gaseous alkanes can take place in the Earth's crust, a comparison with the isotopic signatures of economically important gas reservoirs around the world suggests that abiogenic production is not a globally significant source of hydrocarbons (2) [nature.com].
and i thought the terrorists hated us.. (Score:5, Funny)
Scared? (Score:3, Insightful)
There is risk inherent in every action and inaction.
This isn't news.
Re:Scared? (Score:4, Interesting)
What do you mean, this isn't news? I've been waiting for someone to develop serious technology for a landing on Europa for quite some time now. Given that Europa is one big ocean and is the single most likely place in our solar system to find life (present planet excepted, of course) it's about time we thought about going there.
Now, the hippie spin on the word "radioactive"
NASA has been using Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs) for decades on planetary probes and manned missions. The basic premise is this: a container holds some radioactive heavy metal, such as plutonium. Because the metal is decaying, it generates a bunch of heat. That heat is used with thermoelectric generators to create electricity, and the leftover heat (since the reaction is not not that efficient) is used in other ways, like keeping the astronauts warm. But here's the kicker: an RTG has never, ever failed on a space mission. Not once. It's been flown hundreds of times [doe.gov]. (Missions using RTGs have failed, but the RTGs themselves performed flawlessly every time.) Just because it's "nuclear" doesn't mean it's Chernobyl.
Bottled water (Score:3, Funny)
The ice may be a lot thicker than we thought... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The ice may be a lot thicker than we thought... (Score:5, Funny)
Thats what bunker busters [fas.org] are for...
Re:The ice may be a lot thicker than we thought... (Score:3, Informative)
Europa in Radiation Belts? (Score:5, Informative)
EXCEPT Europa (Score:5, Funny)
Now, a planet named after a miserable women who marries her father's dog is fair game...
Re:EXCEPT Europa (Score:4, Funny)
Re:EXCEPT Europa (Score:4, Funny)
Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
I call -5 on the story itself (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, I wish we could mod stories. This one deserives at least:
- -1 Overrated,
- -1 Troll,
- -1 Redundant,
- -2 Flamebait
-- MarkusQand
Can we moderate the submission itself (Score:5, Insightful)
How about instead, we have a decent discussion on the relative merits and costs of going to Europa and drilling in it to find Life.
Re:Can we moderate the submission itself (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading comprehension problem (Score:5, Funny)
What part of "All these worlds are yours, execpt Europa. Attempt no landings there." don't they understand?
Paranoia Check... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're chaining yourself to a Tree because we're considering sending 5kg of 'radioactive' isotypes to a watery grave inside a frozen planet's 60 mile think liquid shell whose volume is greater than all the earths oceans combined.
Hello bucket? This is water drop, make some room i'm coming in...
christ do you people sit around all day _LOOKING_ for ways to complain and be outraged?
Re:Paranoia Check... (Score:5, Funny)
Why, yes. Yes we do.
Please avoid further mentions of Western religious figures.
Thanks!
Re:Paranoia Check... (Score:3, Funny)
Editorial bias anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was under the impression this was a discussion board for tech news.
How about we just post stories and then have a discussion about the story instead of pushing some agenda. Or maybe that is too complicated.
Europa is already highly radioactive! (Score:5, Informative)
Europa is already highly radioactive. It's around 19 Mrads thanks to this thing we call Jupiter. Saying that a radioactive probe could potentialy destroy any life already there is akin to saying that my bottle of water could kill off life in the pacific. Its people like the poster of this story that the website about "dihydrogen monoxide" is meant to catch.
Re:Europa is already highly radioactive! (Score:3, Insightful)
so the submiter statement could be true nonetheless ...
Yea, and I could be a 391 pound snail. It's not freakin' likely.
The damn thing could spread 100% of its radioactive material directly into the ocean itself and it wouldn't a be a big deal. Any life that happened to be in the localized area when it happened may not be so happy, but overall there's not going to be anything even remotely approaching a disaster. Barely a concern, in fact, unless out of that entire moon the probe just happened to expl
Read what you write... (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, but that also means that a world like Europa that may be made up almost entirely of water, and has much more water than all the oceans of Earth put together, has to be extremely immune to radioactive damage.
I don't know why envrionmentalists aren't happer that NASA is removing radioactive material from this planet. I mean, a lot of people complain about it, but only NASA is actually doing something about it.
Reader's digest condensed version of the post (Score:5, Insightful)
After we remove the irrelevant ("after having contaminated..."), the admission of insufficient research ("the plan seems to be"), the speculative and hysterical ("a leak in the radioactive heater wiping out all [ life ]"), and the lame attempt at humor ("drill Sedna"?), we're left with the following condensed version of the post:
there are plans to send a probe drilling through Europa's ice
to which I respond:
"yes, that's old news".
How Ironic (Score:5, Funny)
The same time it would take for a drill in your head to find a brain.
Why bother pretending this story post is news? (Score:5, Insightful)
"After having contaminated Earth's Oceans"
"But I wonder how long the time lag will be between the probe finding life, and a leak in the radioactive heater wiping all of it out. What next? Drill Sedna for oil?"
I wish the Slashdot editors could maintain at least the pretense of objectivity in which stories they post. I'm sure someone else submitted the story without the loaded commentary. I mean, even the sexing-up BBC managed to write a decent article about this.
If not that, perhaps it would be helpful for less frequent readers if editors disclosed their obvious biases: Green Party member, voting for ABB, never tires of SCO stories, Microsoft-hater, whatever.
Another option would be sub-sites for News for [insert political bent]-leaning nerds, stuff that confirms your beliefs.
Let's just stick to the facts. (Score:5, Insightful)
Polluting other planets (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't agree. I've got a feeling this argument, while maybe not coming from a religious perspective, has a lot of the same concepts built in. Guess what, we humans, as a race, own everything in the solar system. It is ours to do with as we see fit... other planets are being wasted until we make full use of them for humanity as a whole. Until and unless I'm shown proof of life on another planet, and it would probably have to be a somewhat substantially high order of life, I'm going to argue that it's our position to decide the destiny of every bit of metal, gas and rock that's floating in orbit around our sun.
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess what, humans don't own jack. We share a planet with millions of other species. That fact that we are able to influence the planet more than most other species gives us a responsibility to act as caretakers. The question of exploiting other celestial bodies is moot until it becomes economically feasible to do so anyhow.
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:3)
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but did you see her naked? That's all that matters.
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:5, Funny)
Only on
m-
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:4, Funny)
That and to have sex and multiply...
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:4, Insightful)
Guess what
Perhaps I'm reading too far between the lines of your post, but I'd prefer to say that humanity has the potential to utilize other planets, in this system or another. Whether we ever fulfill that potential is another matter.
Furthermore, your post implies (to me) a lack of concern for other environments. I'm not one to suggest that we should not visit or utilize these other worlds, but we need to take responsibility for our actions, and the ramifications they cause. Consider the research we may be denied the opportunity for, if we were to rampantly spread and 'contaminate' other environments. We've done it over and over again on this planet, usually before we knew any better. Lets try not to do it in the future, ok ?
BTW = This is a practical concern, not some sort of fluffy feel-good 'lets not harm the martians' kind of thing.
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh, I've met athiests who oppose us colonizing space as well for the same reasons (minus the God part).
It has nothing to do with theology.
It has everything to do with this: --> People are, in general, fucking idiots.
I hope this helps. :-)
Was she at least good in bed?
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:4, Funny)
I think the Annunaki would have a problem with your logic. However, since they need to return all that gold they pilfered from Earth, I guess they cannot speak on such a subject with any moral authority.
Oil on Sedna? (Score:5, Funny)
Oil on Sedna? On a dirty, utterly cold rock on the very edge of the Solar system? On a rock that even NASA hesitate to call a planet? Let me guess, you are the product of the US high school system with intellectual skills honed to perfection by watching Fox News?
Note to slashdot editors... (Score:3, Insightful)
NO! Don't do it! (Score:5, Funny)
Think of all the DihydrogenMonoxide that would be released as a result of all this melting! It could be catastrophic!
Yet another example... (Score:3, Funny)
Wiping out life on Europa (Score:5, Insightful)
But I wonder how long the time lag will be between the probe finding life, and a leak in the radioactive heater wiping all of it out.
That would be close to never. Europa isn't exactly like a small city like Nagasaki for instance. Even when we intentionally unleashed 2 radioactive devices at Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we failed to wipe out all life on the local chain of Japanese islands.
Even around Chernobyl 18 years later [slashdot.org] life seems to be going on as usual.
The reactors for spacecraft just aren't large enough to cause any large scale catastrophic wipe-outs.
Previous attempt to avoid contamination (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget about radation for a minute, and just think about the microbes that may still be on the probe from earth? Any chance these to be introduced onto Europa? Perhaps if there wasn't life before, we would introduce it.
In either case I find it odd that previous missions would go to extreme measure to avoid contaminating Europa and this mission plans to flat out do it on purpose.
Re:Previous attempt to avoid contamination (Score:5, Informative)
Therefore, when the possibility arose that it might crash on Europa, the decision was made to burn the probe rather than risk contamination.
Since this probe is intended to actually land on Europa, it will be subjected to the rigorous decontaminiation process that is already in place and applied as part of the standard prep checklst for planetary missions (such as the Mars rovers, for example).
Summary:
Galileo--space mission, not decontaminated, not allowed to land on Europa.
Europa Probe--planetary mission, decontaminated, intended to land on Europa.
You--not smarter than NASA.
Wonder no more, it will not wipe out life. (Score:5, Insightful)
It was self defense (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, I've got intelligence that shows that those microbes could evolve into sentient tool using creatures then develop and deploy weapons of mass destruction in a mere million years. If we wait to know for certain the first warning may be a mushroom cloud on Earth. Can we take that risk? We have to strike first!
MESSAGE BEGINS (Score:4, Funny)
Typical anti-science (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, grow up! (Score:3, Insightful)
And that is "anti-science". Exactly. It is anti-thought, anti-rationality and just plain stupid. Your opinion is clearly the result of thick, foggy ideology.
The Big Evil Corporations also make the tools to help your body beat cancer, fight infections, help the crippled become mobile once again, and so on. Should we not trust those as well. Big Evil Corporation made it possible to post your message to the world. Will you be leaving the Interne
Radiation is not our worry! (Score:3, Funny)
However, what we do have to worry about is the primitive fish-like people of Europa worshipping our probe like a god! Think of the cultural havok we could wreck on their primitive society!
Did you post this to the wrong site? (Score:4, Insightful)
Please whine over there about ecological disasters, and how bad we are as a species, etc...
Microbes (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the points I make, when people bring up the topic of alien organisms contaminating Earth, is that Earth really has pretty advanced microbes. Microbes on Earth have had 4.5 billion years to practice infesting each other and the various high-level organisms. Likewise, our immune systems have had slightly less time to practice fighting off such microbes. All this evolution makes them pretty advanced.
Granted, Europa has had the same time to work as we have, but it hasn't had as large a playground, and most likely none of the organisms there have gone up against a mammalian immune system anytime during their evolutionary development. Nor have they gotten the chance to try to survive in as many different environments.
How is this on topic? Any organisms we send over there will wipe the floor with any Europan microbes they find. This may be a giant leap for Earthling microbes, but it's probably bad for science.
Same thing goes for Mars and elsewhere.
Re:Microbes (Score:4, Insightful)
If there is life on Europa anywhere near as old as Earth life (or possibly even older), then it will probably be 'pretty advanced' in its own way.
it hasn't had as large a playground
Actually it would have have a much LARGER playground. Europa's oceans are an order of magnitude larger than the Earth's oceans. The 3-dimentional playground of the entire insides of Europa is a vastly larger habitat for life in than the vanishingly thin layer (pretty much 2-dimentional) on the skin of the Earth. On that basis it would be more reasonable to expect Europan life to probably wipe out all life on Earth.
most likely none of the organisms there have gone up against a mammalian immune system
Of course they haven't gone against a mammalian immune system any more than they've gone against a reptilian or marsupial immune system.
On the other hand:
(A) Assuming there is life there, we have absolutely no idea what sort of immune systems they have had to contend with.
and (B) If they haven't had to contend with any immune systems then they never had to WASTE EFFORT on silly kludges to deal with them. Any energy and mechanisms expended on something that doesn't exist there will be a drain on efficency and success.
Nor have they gotten the chance to try to survive in as many different environments.
Ha. On Earth life lives on the puny skin of the Earth. On Europa it could live on the skin of the moon and in within the icy crust and on the underside of that ice layer facing the ocean and in the castly different depths of the ocean probably a thousand kilometers deep and on the surface of the rocky core facing the ocean.
rganisms we send over there will wipe the floor with any Europan microbes
Human/Earth superiority, pure bigotry (chuckle).
Believing that is no more valid than believing the universe revolves around the Earth or beleiving that humans are (biologically) different or superior to any other animal on Earth.
All that said, yes, any probe should be sterilized before being sent. (A) We don't want to (at least not yet) contaminate Europa with Earth like if it is currently sterile. (B) We don't want to risk contaminating/disrupting the Europan ecology if an Earth-microbes somehow manages survive in some niche at the fringe of that biosphere, and (C) because there is a remote but catastrophic risk that Earth-microbes manages to overwhlem and displace Europan life.
And while such precautions are wise, they are mostly likely moot anyway. It is known that impactors can blast material from one body in teh solarsystem into space and that that material can and does land on other bodies in the solar system. We have found meteorites from Mars, and there is no doubt that meteorites from Earth have landed on Mars and probably ever other body in the solar system. Earth life has already "contaminated" every body in the solar system. It's quite possible that all life on Earth is actually "contamination", that our life originated Europa (or Mars).
But until we are sure, we need to sterilize any probes.
-
Re:Too funny. (Score:4, Funny)
So now there are signs up everywhere stating:
"NO TRESPASSING!
And if you are an environmental activist, try wiping your butt with plastic toilet paper!"
Re:Too funny. (Score:4, Insightful)
Newsflash to morons: you don't need trees to make paper. Lots and lots of cheap, easy-to-grow plants are loaded with cellulose.
And yes, I grew up in a logging town, in a logging family, and I'm quite familiar with the logging industry. Chopping down trees to make toilet paper and diaper fill is utterly, utterly tragic.
Re:Talk about a weird week. (Score:4, Funny)
- In addition the moon probably gets way more raditation from Saturn...
That would be a neat trick, considering how close the Jupiter moon, Europa, is to, uh, Jupiter.Re:Killing life... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bacterial contamination is a real danger to life and to accurate science on Europa and lake Vostok. It is extremely difficult to keep a robotic probe from carrying contamination since modern electronics can't take the extreme heat needed to kill resilient strains (which since they're so resilient would make them even more harmful). Scientists have been putting more effort into trying to figure out how to explore Europa [spacedaily.com] without contamination, but are having a tough time coming up with a solution.
Re:It goes deeper than that (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, the sorry state of education in this country. I'm gonna start sounding like one of those bitter old men always talking about how the world's going to hell in a handbasket. Oh. Wait. I *am* a bitter old man, always talking about how the world's going to hell in a handbasket.
For your edification, Werner Heisenberg stated that "the more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa" (when observing particles). This, the Heise
Re:Preventing contamination by crashing Galileo (Score:4, Funny)
Are you suggesting that NASA plans on intentionally creating radioactive superbugs with 16 claws and 8 eyes, that can code in C++ and will work for small additional amounts of radiation?
Great. Just great. Now I'll never be able to retire.
Re:Now how do they expect to land a probe on ACID? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sedna, Sedna, Sedna ... (Score:5, Funny)
It is big news in the election year over here. John Kerry claims that the leaders of Sedna have secretly endorsed him!