Mars Express Confirms Water on Mars 503
jki writes "So, finally: Through the initial mapping of the South polar cap on 18 January, OMEGA, the combined camera and infrared spectrometer, has already revealed the presence of water ice and carbon dioxide ice. This information was confirmed by the PFS, a new high-resolution spectrometer of unprecedented accuracy. The first PFS data also show that the carbon oxide distribution is different in the northern and southern hemispheres of Mars. The MaRS instrument, a sophisticated radio transmitter and receiver, emitted a first signal successfully on 21 January that was received on Earth through a 70- metre antenna in Australia after it was reflected and scattered from the surface of Mars. This new measurement technique allows the detection of the chemical composition of the Mars atmosphere, ionosphere and surface." On another note, NASA has gotten some sort of signal from Spirit, but it's still not fully functional.
heh (Score:2, Funny)
Re:heh (Score:5, Insightful)
Segway into GCNR rockets. They can be used for space travel, and landing and taking off. We could even build CO2 breathing "flyers" for easy transport from orbit to the surface and back. If NASA can, they should start work on the proper engines immediately! WhooHoo!!!
Re:heh (Score:5, Interesting)
So what purpose does going to Mars serve? I am a physicist btw, working on GLAST [stanford.edu] for what is is worth.
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
That is a difficult question, isn't it? The most common (and vague) answer would be Hillary's, "Because it's there." While that may not seem like a very good reason on the surface, it's really just an attempt to explain a strong pioneering spirit that is pervasive in many cultures.
To actually look at the benefits of space travel however, you need to look at it from an economic standpoint instead of a scientific one. Opening up space to colonization would trigger a new economy. Those who take the step toward space will need various raw materials. Those raw materials are plentiful on asteroids, moons, and planetoids. Thus space based businesses could make a mint by mining and selling raw materials. Those raw materials could then be processed by space smelters and factories. Those factories could then produce a variety of products, including space craft such as cruise ships or colonization ships. Various institutions could then form colonization efforts where the cost is split among the settlers. (Similar to the settlers of the Americas; the Mayflower being a common example.)
But what does this have to do with Mars? Well, space is a pretty vast place. If we assume for a moment that companies become interested in mining asteroids in the belt just past Mars, then we have to ask the question of how they're going to be supported. Sending ships from Earth would be problematic at best, very slow with catastrophic results in case of failure at worst. However, if Mars were used as a staging point for mining support and materials processing, trips back and forth could be substantially shortened.
Of course, all of this requires the development of high thust AND high Isp engines. Of all the options available, only nuclear engines meet the necessary criteria. GCNR (Gas Core Nuclear Rocket) engines can throw the same mass as chemical engines, but have a much higher Isp (3000-5000). These would work well as a launch solution, space plane solution (since they could potentially "breath" atmospheric gases), and as a initial solution for interplanetary travel. However, even GCNR engines have a low Isp when you take into account how much space is out there. Thus the next step would be the development of pure space drives such as Orion or Nuclear Salt Rockets. Both of these would provide an excellent solution for non-landing craft with high thrust, high Isp, and excellent fuel and mass capacity. They'd have so much power, that they could easily carry GCNR space plane crafts as landing shuttles. (The largest Orion design calls for 8 million tons of ship mass.)
More info on propulsion methods on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org].
Does that help explain it?
Re:heh (Score:3, Insightful)
But Hillary did not ask for (at least) tens of billions of tax dollars to accomplish his explorations.
- Steve
Re:heh (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:heh (Score:3, Insightful)
Knowledge is not a profit-generating ins
Why go? To guarantee our survival, some say. (Score:4, Interesting)
Some say we should worry more about incoming asteroids wiping out all life on earth [go.com] which would mean we should establish human colonies on the Moon, Mars and elsewhere to hedge our bets against such an occurance (could return to repopulate the planet after a time). Others say earth is heading for environmental disaster [smh.com.au] and the solution might be to leave it for lifeless places and artificial environments where we can do no harm. Others yet want us to think about overpopulation [overpopulation.org] which could be solved by spreading out to other planets and while others say that sociopolitical causes are the main of hunger today, there is a limit to the number of people that can live here.
Why did people come to the New World, not just in Columbus' time but earlier from Asia? Why did they send their canoes to Pacific islands? The time will come that our reasons will match theirs. Today the reasons are not yet there and the will is only shared by a few but the reasons will likely become more apparent and the population more willing with time.
Re:heh (Score:3, Interesting)
GLAST is a next generation high-energy gamma-ray observatory designed for making observations of celestial gamma-ray sources in the energy band extending from 10 MeV to more than 100 GeV.
Just out of curiosity, what would be able to hit the craft with 100 Giga-electron Volts of Gamma radiation? I could see getting hit with that much energy close to the Sun, but over interstellar distances?
Or perhaps I'm just overestimating how much energy 100 GeV is?
Re:heh (Score:4, Informative)
As far as distance from the source goes, photons only get scattered if they interact with something . As long as there's not much between 'there' and 'here,' they can get through, even if it does take a while.
Re:heh (Score:3, Funny)
<sotto-voice>I think you meant seque [m-w.com] </sotto-voice>
You joke but terraforming is a good idea (Score:2, Interesting)
You may be joking but I think it's a good idea. I think the odds of finding life on mars is slim to nil. Right now they are fruitlessly running around hoping to find past traces of life.
Terraforming will be a long long process. I say we jump start it by tossing out some extremophile [astrobiology.com] microbes and see what takes root. Scatter them around the water laden edges of the poles. Anything that produces organic compounds has got to be better than what Mars has now.
At this point we
Re:You joke but terraforming is a good idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Note: I am not a Bio major so maybe putting large colonies of microbes would not reduce the amount of water...
Re:You joke but terraforming is a good idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Thanks a lump.
As for the microbes, I'm not sure that limited water is the issue. The real issue is if we really want to be deploying microbes when there's no one there to keep an eye on them? If we build a small dome city near a (relatively) closed area like a canyon, we will have the perfect staging point for deploying microbes. Inside the canyon, Oxygen levels would (hopefully) rise quickly forming a bubble of livable atmosphere.
That's the theory anyway. Whether it's worka
Re:You joke but terraforming is a good idea (Score:3, Informative)
That explains the mute Spirit Rover (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That explains the mute Spirit Rover (Score:5, Funny)
"The Dish" got fried? (Score:2)
I'm not saying it caused the failure, but I'm sure it didn't help...
Q.
Re: How would it react to wind? (Score:2)
Maybe not so (Score:4, Informative)
If the rover is the size of compact car, it is very compact !
Here are both the current rover and the previous one in the same picture:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/
One seat could barely fit.
Re: How would it react to wind? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's why you're not an engineer for NASA. You worry about the little things or you stand on the sideline and watch.
Re: How would it react to wind? (Score:3, Informative)
It's closer to the size of a riding lawn mower. It's only the camera mast that makes it tall.
Re: How would it react to wind? (Score:5, Informative)
Easy, Martian atmosphere pressure is only 1% that of Earth's. So whilst the winds on Mars can reach enormous speeds, they actually exert very little force.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re: How would it react to wind? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nah, the martians... (Score:2)
Yeah the martians got it alright....
Europe (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Europe (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, I believe the NASA discovery was at the North pole, though I agree that this news is not very groundbreaking.
BTW, does anyone know how they identified the North/South poles? Was a compass sent there in a previous mission, or was it an arbitrary decision?
Re:Europe (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Europe (Score:5, Informative)
Mars' magnetic field is only a tiny fraction of that of Earth's and is actually dominated by regional poles rather than the strong magnetic poles on Earth. Mars does not appear to have a dynamic Core so its magnetic field is actually the one frozen into the planet when its hot interior solidified.
So a compass wouldn't be much help.
The answer is that the North Martian Pole is the one pointing in much the same way as the Earth's North Pole.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:Europe (Score:5, Informative)
Magnetic is the way your compass points. Planets do not have to have an appreciable magnetic field, so it is possible to have a planet without a magnetic north.
Geographic is based on the direction of a planet's spin. Here's one way to choose geographic north: the right-hand rule.
Stick out your right-hand like you are going to shake hands, but with your thumb pointing upwards. Now curl your fingers in towards your palm. If the curling of your fingers occurs in the same direction as the planet is spinning then north is in the direction of your thumb. If your fingers are curling opposite to the direction of the spin then your thumb is pointing south.
The right-hand rule is used a great deal in the world of physics.
Re:Europe (Score:3, Insightful)
No, they didn't. They demonstrated that it was very likely that water was present; the press at the time obviously played that up as "we've found water", but it was not proven. As recently as two or three months ago I remember reading articles about how what they found might not actually be water at all.
What the European mission has now done is proven beyond reasonable doubt that the hydrogen Nasa found is, as we thought, contai
Re:Europe (Score:5, Informative)
The press release doesn't even mention the USA or NASA...
Re:Europe (Score:5, Funny)
The press release doesn't even mention the USA or NASA...
You must've not read all the way to the end. I quote the last paragraph:
Mrs Edelgard Bulmahn, German Minister for Research and Education, who is also chair of the ESA Council at Ministerial level, said at the press conference: "Europe can be proud of this mission: Mars Express is an enormous success for the European Space Programme. We rule! In your FACE, NASA! Your rover SUCKS! Who's laughing NOW!"
Re:Europe (Score:5, Insightful)
All I can see is that they're very excited, happy and proud by the results, as they should be. These feelings are all positive ones and a sign that they're dedicated to the work they do. I seem to recall NASA engineers crying in joy when the Spirit sent back its first signals. I understand them, and I understand why ESA is very relieved by these achievements. They need all the success and publicity they can get, just like NASA, since space organizations like these are constantly fighting to not have their fundings lowered.
Re:Europe (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does every press release have to mention how they are doing it "better" than we Americans are.
Err, the only mention of Europe in the press release was the very last paragraph.. "Mrs Edelgard Bulmahn, German Minister for Research and Education, who is also chair of the ESA Council at ministerial level, said at the press conference: "Europe can be proud of this mission: Mars Express is an enormous success for the European space programme."
We are looking at the same press release, right? Because that quote doesn't seem to justify your assertion that ESA has a serious case of American Wang Envy
There is a place for Europe and the US and [insert name of country here] in space exploration. And justification in each country being proud of its successes, and congratulating the others on their successes.
If Mrs Bulmahn's comments offended you that much, then I apologise on her behalf, and on the behalf of The whole damn socialist European Union
Landers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Landers (Score:3, Insightful)
These new probe imagers have impressive resolution. Any chance that they can be used to identify lost landers and determine what happened to them? It might be useful to somebody to know if a lander ended up in one big piece or thousands of smaller pieces.
Free Shrimp!! (Score:5, Funny)
Freaking hilarious (Score:2)
Re:Free Shrimp!! (Score:3, Informative)
Long John Silver's announced today that it will give America free Giant Shrimp if NASA's Mars Exploration Rover project finds conclusive evidence of an ocean on Mars by February 29, 2004. The out-of-this-world offer from the world's most popular seafood chain celebrates NASA's efforts to find traces of ocean water - and possibly, evidence of life - on Mars.
Besides, this is one of tho
The fine print (Score:5, Funny)
Er... I'm pretty sure they're safe on this one.
Only one Shrimp (Score:3, Funny)
Crap (Score:3, Funny)
But of course... (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this really news? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Is this really news? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is this really news? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Is this really news? (Score:3, Informative)
WWater on Mars w00t! (Score:2, Funny)
Lowell said that 120 years ago (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Lowell said that 120 years ago (Score:2)
That is just our best explanation.
Everyone knows there is frozen water on Mars, but, was it ever liquid and did it have any chemicals that could sustain our version of 'life', is the real question.
Re:Lowell said that 120 years ago (Score:4, Funny)
Of course, it was probably the Venusian railway network where Elron Hubbard claimed he was almost hit by a train...
750 bytes (Score:5, Funny)
10 minutes at 10 bits/s, I wonder what was important enough to spent those bytes on...
;-)
If Nasa-geeks are anything like other geeks, it must've been either martian porn or nethack I guess. The former being more likely.
Re:750 bytes (Score:5, Funny)
Which is unusually appropriate in this case, actually...
Re:750 bytes (Score:2)
-N
Don't know 10 bps (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't know 10 bps (Score:4, Funny)
Sounds like a correct description of the thought-process normally executed by my boss...
Re:Don't know 10 bps (Score:3, Funny)
Don't tell Bush!
(MWD must mean mass weapons of destruction... scary to think that not only has your company developed nuclear technology, but also developed antimatter)
This only applies if you don't work for Halliburton.
Re:750 bytes (Score:3, Informative)
Interesting, so .... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Interesting, so .... (Score:2)
oh friggin' great... (Score:2)
Scientific point of view (Score:5, Interesting)
From the geological appearance water was always expected, Hydrogen and Oxygen are both abundant enough (in the early history of Mars - not in the atmosphere at the moment). H2O is the thermodynamic result.
Although the absence of water would almost certainly have procluded the existance of "life" on Mars, the existance of water is not, in itself, that startling a discovery.
It is important that scientific funding goes towards real science and not satisfying the public demand for fantastic revelations!
Finally, well done ESA for building a spectrometer that accurate, and getting it there
Re:Scientific point of view (Score:4, Insightful)
Giving the public something to capture their imaginations is a far lesser crime than allowing the majority of science resource in this day and age (admittedly not public money) to be frittered away on 'curing' dandruff, limp hair and stubborn stains.
Centralised, organised world research council. NOW !!
Nice news... (Score:2, Funny)
Send the rover to the 'mars face' [msss.com].
Discovery may indicate life... (Score:2, Funny)
Scientists confirm that what they've found is mostly water. They were quite surprised to see that the water was held in bags. Quite ugly bags.
They continue to speculate what the discovery might mean, and whether life may be possible in this environment...
JPL has an update: 20min data session rcat 0830EST (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2004/30.cfm
Re:JPL has an update: 20min data session rcat 0830 (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's just hope the good news in it transmitting telemetry data doesn't mean bad news in what the telemetry data shows.
Regardless what, I'm starting to get ready for the Opportunity landing party to be held at #maestro on irc.freenode.net
Clickable link and text (Score:3, Informative)
Updated Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status January 23, 2004
The flight team for NASA's Spirit received data from the rover in a communication session that began at 13:26 Universal Time (5:26 a.m. PST) and lasted 20 minutes at a data rate of 120 bits per second.
"The spacecraft sent limted data in a proper response to a ground command, and we're planning for commanding further communication sessions later today," said Mars Exploration Rover Project Manager Pete Theisinger at NASA's
hmmm... (Score:2, Interesting)
More recent "successful" attempt...... (Score:2, Informative)
Is Spirit Waterproof? (Score:4, Interesting)
Does anyone have a comprehensive list of what the rovers are designed to deal with?
It may be time to return to a soft landing strategy.
Not warm enough for liquid water (Score:2)
I'm curious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Moderation: -0.66 Mildly Off-Topic
Re:I'm curious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Do its moons reflect enough light for detail in nearby objects to be discernable, or is everything just cast in shadow?
Unlikely. Phobos and Deimos are tiny, and orbit very fast, very close to the surface of Mars. They can't even be seen from all points of the Martian surface. I'm guessing that in the Martian night-time, if they pass overhead they're entirely in Mars's shadow and thus cast no light. I think they're only visible at dawn and at dusk, under certain lucky conditions.
What I'd love to see it some photos of the night sky. I've always wanted to see the same constellations from a planet other than Earth. Dunno why, just seems significant to me.
Re:I'm curious... (Score:3, Informative)
All those stars are *REALLY* far away, after all, and the short hop from Earth to Mars is insignigicant in comparison.
Re:I'm curious... (Score:3, Informative)
1) "I've tried snapping the sky from here with a 3 megapixel camera and it's a waste of time, even with very long exposures"
This [velatron.com] would seem to disprove your theory.
2) "the resolution of the cameras they've got up there sucks even more so"
This is quite wrong. Spirit's camera has a 1 megapixel CCD, which may seem small. But it's a 1 megapixel *B&W* CCD, meaning no filters. By contrast, the 4 megapixel CCD on your average camera has filters which are
Re:I'm curious... (Score:3, Funny)
Mars Rover Communicating at 10 bits per second! (Score:5, Funny)
NO CARRIER
Re:Mars Rover Communicating at 10 bits per second! (Score:4, Funny)
better news (Score:3, Informative)
They just need to stay away from the STOP+A keys
Contact w/ Spirit (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Contact w/ Spirit (Score:5, Insightful)
NO NO.. Spirit found water! (Score:5, Funny)
NASA: MOVE FORWARD 10
SPIRIT: 10? Ok 10 METERS [whir.. Trundle]
NASA: NO NO. 10 FEET!
SPIRIT: OOPS..
NASA: WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?! REQUEST STATUS REPORT!
SPIRIT: LOCATION - OLD RIVERBED
GOOD NEWS - FOUND WATER
BETTER NEWS - LOTS OF WATER
BAD NEWS - NOT WATERPROO...#%$&#..... Bzzzzzzzzzzzt
NASA: DAMN!!!!!!!
Re:NO NO.. Spirit found water! (Score:5, Funny)
SPIRIT: THERE IS NO WAY THROUGH IN THAT DIRECTION
NASA: Go West
SPIRIT: I AM IN AN OLD RIVERBED. THERE IS A TROLL HERE. HE LOOKS UNFRIENDLY.
NASA: Kill Troll
SPIRIT: WITH WHAT SHOULD I ATTEMPT TO KILL TROLL?
NASA: Kill Troll with Tinderbox
SPIRIT: I AM IN AN OLD RIVERBED. THERE IS A DEAD TROLL HERE.
Mars Express Confirms Rocks on Mars (Score:3, Funny)
The mission's dust-detection sub-project, as well as its quest to determine whether Mars is, indeed, reddish-brown colored, are still awaiting further data.
Hoorraayyy (Score:2, Informative)
Sinkhole!!! (Score:2, Informative)
looks like there's a sinkhole... and where there are sinkholes, there are....? CAVERNS!
Re:Sinkhole!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Caverns? Maybe that's why Bush is so eager to go to Mars. You never know Osama may be hiding in one of them there. He sure can't find him on this planet :)
what sort of commands get sent? (Score:5, Interesting)
good lord, this is an incredibly geeky question, but I'm serious, i wanna know.
Re:what sort of commands get sent? (Score:3, Funny)
In contrast, Beagle seems to have used YModem-G and "&Q0". Kiddies.
Spacecraft Commands (Score:3, Informative)
Most spacecraft commands are sent as fixed or variable length frames of synchronous data. A frame usually begins with a sync pattern, some header information, the actual command, and a trailer containing a checksum or CRC. There is no protocol, in the sense that most people use. Think of the commands as UDP datagrams. The engineers in the control center monitor the telemetry downlink to verify that the comm
All these technogeeks all this hostility (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah well - the confluence of indifference, stupidity and radical Libertarian 'prices of everything'.
See If NASA promised that Mars science would guarantee the slashnerds could share illegal music for free forever I'm pretty sure those damn Trekkie buffoons could get behind it.
Live long and eat Cheetos, fat goofy weird comicbook store guy.
Just out of curiousity... (Score:3, Insightful)
More news (Score:5, Informative)
This one above is somewhat upbeat. The data rate from this last communication went from 10 minutes at 10 bits per second to 20 minutes at 120 bits per second.
Not quite live streaming, but not yet slashdoted either.
Re:Water (Score:2)
Sparkling Mineral water to be exact. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Water (Score:3, Informative)
water would boil on mars given the pressure and daily temperatures.
Dude (Score:3, Interesting)