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Space Science Technology

Holding On To Hope For Beagle 2 338

Posted by timothy from the maybe-they-just-don't-want-to-see-us dept.
slasher999 writes "Scientists are still keeping their hopes up that they will be able to revive Beagle via the Mars Express mothership on 4 January. On that date the ship will be in the correct orbit and may then be able to revive the lander. Current theroies as to what may have gone wrong include the possibility that the landers on-board clock is incorrect and that the lander has been transmitting at incorrect times. Funny, I thought I heard that as of yesterday the batteries on the lander would have been depleted unless the lander had received an order to recharge its batteries."
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Holding On To Hope For Beagle 2 More

Holding On To Hope For Beagle 2

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  • Space Trouble... (Score:5, Funny)

    by danielrm26 ( 567852 ) * on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:41AM (#7820780) Homepage
    "Current theroies as to what may have gone wrong include the possibility that the landers on-board clock is incorrect and that the lander has been transmitting at incorrect times."

    Or maybe they're using kilos as their base time unit. :)
    • This seems too stupid to be true. First they ask for millions of dollars for experts and high tech equipment, and oops - forgot that darn metric conversion.

      Okay, of all the space projects I guess I could expect a silly human error hiccup...but just one, and it's really silly.

      So, now we see the next project, they ask for more millions of dollars for experts and high tech equipment, and oops - this time we forgot to set that pesky clock!

      Wait a minute, I think I see a pattern here....

      • Re:Nigerian scam anyone (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Sivar ( 316343 ) <charlesnburns[@]gmai l . c om> on Sunday December 28, 2003 @04:42AM (#7821088)
        The unit conversion was a mistake of JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratories), a part of NASA that works strictly on unmanned spacecraft.
        The Beagle II is a product of the ESA. They are quite different.
        While I agree that the conversion was a silly mistake to make, you really have to appreciate how staggeringly complex the undertaking of an unmanned (or manned, in fact) space flight can be. I have three relatives that work for JPL, none of which were on the team that made the error, but they all share the shame. After seeing a small part of what is involved from them, I:
        1) Am glad that I do not work for NASA, and
        2) Am frankly mystified that, seeing as how we are all human, any successful automated probe missions have been accomplished at all. There is just so much that has to be done *perfectly* to have any hope of even getting off the earth, let alone circling planets at precisely calculated trajectories to gather a specific "amount" of inertia to be able to get to a specific spot over a specific planet so as to be able to exercise a specific number of steps at the exact correct time in the correct order.
        Complexity-wise, it is not unlike having to build a mature mission-critical operating system in five years, which has no significant bugs and whose problems are often more difficult to solve.

        While it is sometimes fun to make fun of the mistakes of others, I can do no less than stand in awe of how much NASA and the ESA get accomplished with what they have. The ESA in particular, if you compare the Beagle's budget to that of, say, the Galileo project.

        • Re:Nigerian scam anyone (Score:5, Informative)

          by snake_dad ( 311844 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @07:12AM (#7821316) Homepage Journal
          Mostly right, but you are wrong when you call the Beagle 2 an ESA product. Mars Express is, but Beagle 2 is a privately funded UK project. It was created by professor Colin Pillinger and a whole bunch of volunteers. From what I can make out from the briefings that I've seen, Colin is an exceptional guy, and it breaks my heart to see his puppy sitting on Mars, unresponsive. So far...

          The craft was made against all odds on a shoestring budget, in record time, and within crazy weight limits. Because of the weight constraints several backup and/or extra communications systems could not be added. Anyone who compares this lander to Pathfinder, the MER's, or any other NASA project is out of his mind...

          • ...but Beagle 2 is a privately funded UK project.

            I heard on NPR that this project cost $70 million US dollars. Nothing at that cost with such little chance of success or return-on-investment would be a privately funded project.
            There is undoubtably lots of government funds and focused government sponsored research put into this 'privately funded project'.
            Sometimes we just have to refuse to believe ridiculous things that we read in the media. Things like 'a privately funded' $70 million project t
    • No they are using metric time ;P
      Posted at 2:30 AM Central/ 1:50 My Imaginary Metric Time.
    • Or maybe they put the clock in upside down...
    • I support space exploration 100%...

      However we must place it in its proper perspective given the other priorities of public funds. And as far as I can see, EVERYTHING is more important now than space exploration.

      Mars hasn't changed in a billion years. It isn't going to change in the next two or three hundred years. But we should wait that long before throwing money at it because we have far more important things to deal with here on the home world.

      For instance,
      - the population of the world wil

  • What kind of shoddy... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xcham ( 200708 ) * on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:44AM (#7820788)
    Who builds a space probe that needs to be TOLD when it needs to recharge? I mean, isn't that something that you'd really, really want to automate? Considering we're, you know, a few billion kilometres away...

    • Assuming the Best for Beagle's Power? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mbathgate ( 617932 ) <njfmNO@SPAMbathgate.org> on Sunday December 28, 2003 @03:08AM (#7820870) Homepage
      A little Google Newsing [google.com] reveals a number of conflicts regarding our little friend's batteries.

      The most recent BBC Article seems to have the illustrious Professor Colin assuming the best:
      "We need to get Beagle 2 into a period when it can broadcast for a much longer period," said Professor Colin Pillinger.

      "This will happen around the 4 January after the spacecraft has experienced a sufficient number of communication failures to switch to automatic transmission mode."
      This means Beagle will then be transmitting permanently during daylight hours. And, by then, Mars Express will be in prime position to listen for its "baby".
      The Beagle's got a 42-cell Lithium Ion [beagle2.com] power source, so assuming that was previously charged (why wouldn't it be?!) then it should last for some decent amount of time. That being said, transmitting continuously for 12+ hours a day doesn't bode well if the probe never got the message to unfold its solar panels (shouldn't that have been the next step after the airbags deflated?!)!

    • Re:What kind of shoddy... (Score:5, Informative)

      by snake_dad ( 311844 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @07:21AM (#7821337) Homepage Journal
      What kind of shoddy poster believes anything in the slashdot write up of an article? There is no need for a command to recharge batteries. When the lander was being designed, there was no agreement yet with NASA to use the Mars Odyssey probe for communications, and the use of Jodrell Bank Observatory was only agreed on after launch of the Mars Express (IIRC).

      So, during design, the only available method of communication would be Mars Express. It was already known that for several days after landing, MEX would not be in position to talk to the lander (due to the need to change its orbit from equatorial to polar).

      Thus they had to plan for the lander to stay alive and healthy on its own for at least 10 days. That is why it was programmed to automatically recharge its batteries as soon as the solar panels were unfolded and the sun would appear.

  • System clock off? (Score:5, Funny)

    by UFNinja ( 726662 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:47AM (#7820802)
    That's what they get for not using ntpd. ;-)
  • picked a better band tha Blur to write a song for them? I mean....

  • Remotely Revive it? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mjuszczak ( 689793 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:50AM (#7820813) Homepage
    How will the 'mothership' orbitting around Mars be able to "revive" the lander? If its batteries are depleted, isn't it missing something: electricity?

    I agree with one of the previous posts. With unsuccessful missions like these before, wouldn't they program the lander to do something like...

    if (batteries == 0) { recharge(); }

    Maybe I'm missing something?

    • Perhaps the mothership is going to transmit down a bunch of unsolicited email to buy viagra for martians(tm).

    • Electricity (Score:2, Informative)

      by mceister ( 216015 ) *
      This means Beagle will then be transmitting permanently during daylight hours. And, by then, Mars Express will be in prime position to listen for its "baby".

      The BBC article seems to imply that Beagle will use solar power to transmit a signal. Perhaps as a fallback if the batteries have failed?

    • if (batteries == 0) { recharge(); }

      But how does this code run if there's no power? :)
    • That depends on the current state of Beagle 2. If it's in pieces scattered around, even Mars Express can't do anything to chance that, unfortunately. But.. if it landed succesfully, then the failure to communicate could be caused by a number of things. For one, the software might have some error in it, it may have its time wrong, one or two of the solar panels may be shielding the antenna.

      Some of the possible failure scenarios might be fixed by sending certain commands to the lander. Ie: tell it to move t

  • The Christmas season can be an especially difficult time for those suffering a personal loss. And while it is true that Beagle 2 is dead, there are some helpful steps you can take:
    • deal with the inevitable.
    • grieve for your loss.
    • move on.
    Never let your emotions get tangled up with something as silly as a space probe. It isn't healthy. So Beagle 2 fails. Big whoop. Deal with it and move on.

    • Re:Healing the pain (Score:5, Insightful)

      by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @03:40AM (#7820965)
      "Never let your emotions get tangled up with something as silly as a space probe. It isn't healthy. So Beagle 2 fails. Big whoop. Deal with it and move on."

      I guess I'm "unhealthy" then. So be it.

      Beagle 2 was more than a "silly space probe". Like all of our other space probes meant to do basic exploratory science, which are our civilizations very first infant steps into the incomprehensible vastness of the cosmos, Beagle was alive. It was alive with the hope of the scientist who spent months designing and refining a tiny instrument aboard its manipulator arm that just maybe, this instrument after travelling millions of miles might detect the faintest trace of life, the first on a planet outside of our own. It was alive with the wonder of all the schoolkid geeks who followed the program in their classrooms that maybe someday they might be the first person to step off of a lander into a fine red dust and look out upon stark desolate vistas of the first planet humans visit outside of their own. And it was alive with the excitement of all the rest of us who followed the mission, who rooted for the underdog and thought of the possibilities that await us in the cold inky depths of space.

      So maybe I'm just being "silly" but I think only beasts could remain indifferent to the nature of the universe which created them. And even though Beagle2 would have only revealed to us a tiny fraction of a dot of that universe, it likely would have increased our understanding of it by thousands of times.

      • Re:Healing the pain (Score:3, Insightful)

        by anubi ( 640541 )
        You speak as a true scientist/engineer, Deglr.

        One mourns the loss of his work, and the things it could have done much as a mother would mourn a killed child. It represents the extinguishing of all the hopes and dreams of that which one put a lot of personal effort into creating.

        I understand, and mourn also. Beagle is Earth's child, sent for exploration, to go where we yet cannot reach or see. With the news of Beagle's problems comes the extinguishing of all the hopes and excitement of the discovery of

      • Re:Healing the pain (Score:2, Interesting)

        by mhw25 ( 590290 )
        Somehow I'm drawn to the irony of it all, considering an inanimate Beagle2 got in terms of invested human emotions compared to the original Beagle - Darwin and crew who had to put their lives in the line on a far from unsinkable ship, on poorly charted waters, leaving family and friends half a world behind.

        And here we have an unmaned probe receiving eulogies (albeit preemtively) that should have remained exclusively as honour reserved for those who truly gave their lives moving exploration forward - from t

      • And go drink some eggnogg and be merry.

  • However... (Score:3, Informative)

    by mOoZik ( 698544 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:58AM (#7820840) Homepage
    You guys must realize that neither the Odyssey nor Earth-based radio telescopes were tested with the Beagle 2. Only the Mars Express orbiter was specifically designed and tested to communicate with the lander.

    • Re:However... (Score:4, Funny)

      by bluephone ( 200451 ) <grey.burntelectrons@org> on Sunday December 28, 2003 @03:12AM (#7820883) Homepage Journal
      Yes, because Europeans use SPECIAL radio waves, different from the ones the rest of the world uses, and they only fit inside European satellite dishes.
      • The real world is more complicated than your bad joke.

        Most American and European spacecraft undergo extensive compatibility testing on the ground before they are ever launched. This ensures that the communications systems on the spacecraft are compatible with the transmitters and receivers and other equipment in the satellite ground stations. Among other things, the spacecraft's transmitter is tested for frequency accuracy and stability, proper modulation index, and other parameters that could affect the

    • Re:However... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by spicedhamhawg ( 718466 )
      That's a straw that even the mission scientists haven't yet grapsed at, and they already seeming to be reaching toward the box of straws marked "Too thin to be viewed even with an electron microscope."

      Beagle 2 is toast.

      Beagle 2 is either vaporized, or strewn across many kilometers of the Martian surface.

      Beagle 2 is so dead it makes even BSD look radiantly healthy.

    • Pillinger's statements are ridiculous... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mbone ( 558574 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @04:30AM (#7821070)
      This is ridiculous, and I for one cannot believe that Prof. Pillinger keeps saying it.

      Unlike the NASA orbiter, which might conceivably not be able to understand the Beagle's transmission, Jodrell Bank is looking for its radio carrier (i.e., just for the existence of a transmission at all). It should be able to see it. That's what radio telescopes do, after all - and Jodrell Bank has been looking at space probes since the 1960's.

      Moreover, all of Mars is well within a Jodrell Bank beamwidth at 500 MHz, so it doesn't matter where the thing is on Mars - Jodrell Bank should see it. And it's too much to believe that operators at Jodrell Bank, Westerbork and Stanford all screwed up such a simple measurement.

      This spacecraft is almost certainly lost; I would rate it's chance of recovery at much less than one per cent.
      • To further add to your point - the radio telescope at Stanford (which joined in the search last night) is theoretically able to detect the radio emissions from Beagle's CPU, not just it's on board transmitter.

      • Re:Pillinger's statements are ridiculous... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by sjames ( 1099 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @11:07AM (#7821845) Homepage Journal

        so it doesn't matter where the thing is on Mars - Jodrell Bank should see it.

        Unless it's transmitting at the wrong time of (Martian) day when it's directional antenna is pointing away from Earth and occluded by Mars itself.

        Without a doubt, none of this bodes well for Beagle 2, but since most of the effort and money has been spent already, a few man hours spent trying to salvage the mission is well worth it.

        The next most likely time to make contact will be Jan 4th when it starts transmitting continuously. At that point, we will know that IF it does transmit, at some point the signal will be there when it is directed in the general direction of Earth.

  • It is so simple (Score:5, Funny)

    by Spacecase ( 121674 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:59AM (#7820841)
    1. Tell Starbuck's that the Martian Coffee market is untapped.
    2. Tell them the best location for coffee sales is the landing site of the Beagle 2
    3. Wait the 2 weeks for them to build the store
    4. Order a tall latte and 1 hour of wi-fi
    5. Connect to the beagle 2 using your local wi-fi
    6. Drink your latte

    This would cost the EU goverments about $7 (for the latte and 1 hour wi-fi) and they get a latte out of the deal!

    • Re:It is so simple (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mjuszczak ( 689793 )
      Actually a bit more, according to another /. recent article its about $10 for an hour of wi-fi :)

      Currency Converter would show that at 8.05153 euros, plus the cost of latte...hehe

  • Say what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Valar ( 167606 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @02:59AM (#7820842)
    Funny, I thought I heard that as of yesterday the batteries on the lander would have been depleted unless the lander had received an order to recharge its batteries.
    God, I hope not. That would possibly be one of the stupidest design flaws I have heard of in a long time. Why can't it just charge its batteries whenever the sun is shining? That said, maybe the onboard clock is in American time and not Metric time :)

    • Re:Say what? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Kierthos ( 225954 )
      I'm sorry, does anyone actually use metric time? Okay, maybe some scientists, or programming students for a project assigned by a mildly vicious professor, but as far as the rest of the world is concerned.....

      I mean, does this sound right? "At work promptly at 3.75, and out the door and on the way home at 7.0833." (which corresponds to a 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work day)

      The preceding was brought to you by low blood sugar and lack of caffiene.

      Kierthos
  • The lander would need to open and expose it's solar panels within a few days to recharge the batteries. It should do this automatically.

  • What`s Happening ? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sorry, but what`s this story about ? I`ve heard somebody called Colin Pillinger has lost his beagle. Look, I`m a animal lover but it`s just a bloody dog. It`s probably just hopped over the wall is is humping the neighbour`s poodle. Do we really have to have constant new reports about this ?

    My advice to Colin is stop making such a fuss and go and stick some "Lost Dog" posters up on nearby lamp-posts like everybody else.
  • Wouldn't be the first time that air bags failed to deploy at a crucial time.

    I hope I'm wrong, personally... but it wouldn't suprise me.

  • The five stages of grief (Score:5, Funny)

    by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @03:57AM (#7820996)
    1. Denial

    2. Anger

    3. Bargaining

    4. Depression

    5. Acceptance

    I believe the Beagle team is firmly in stage 1 but after this quote, "At the moment, I am frustrated rather than concerned." some are already drifting into stage 2.

    • Re:The five stages of grief (Score:4, Funny)

      by HeghmoH ( 13204 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @07:32AM (#7821352) Homepage Journal
      This is strikingly similar to the stages of solving a computer problem.

      1. "I don't have that problem, what are you talking about?"

      2. "Where the hell is the problem? I can't find the damned problem!"

      3. "Ok, maybe if I just change this, it will all go away."

      4. "I hate life."

      5. "It compiled, ship it!"

      And very often, the solution is found sometime before you hit step 5. I think it's no coincidence that these are the same. Grief could be seen as a reaction to a problem which can't be solved. At this point, we don't know if this problem can be solved yet.

  • Keep those R/C toys coming--Thx You Earthlings!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Swai ( 678004 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @04:10AM (#7821029)

    Martians should be confused with so much robots incoming.

    Their thoughts must be:

    • We are being invaded. Earth Attacks!!!.
    • Veromartia there is a Santa!!!.
    • Don't talk to them they are part of a 419 scam... 'Dear milky way brother....'.
    • Earth's telemarketers are REALLY desperate.
    • These must be the gadgets surplus trash from past Xmas (2002).
    • Honey hand me my handlasergun.
    • From all planets in the solar systems why they throw their garbage at us?.
    • Mom is not from planet earth is from planet China, do you know it?.
    • Damn Radio Shack they send these R/C and the batteries cost extra!!!.
    • Heads up!!!.
    • Those Earth's roaches sure are ugly!!!, call Terminex.
    • Dear, do you remember that toy car you ate some years ago?, well their brothers are looking for him.
    • Oh no, another season of BattleBots.
    • Who ordered for these on Ebay.?
    • Boy I don't find where to neuter this thing.
    • Turn it off!!!, those British calling on the radio sure are annoying. (just a joke)

    Regards and happy 2004!!!.

  • No (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 28, 2003 @04:20AM (#7821045)
    Funny, I thought I heard that as of yesterday the batteries on the lander would have been depleted unless the lander had received an order to recharge its batteries.


    Why don't people keep uncoroborated opinions out of story blurbs? Now we've got pages and pages of /. readers complaining about how this is a really stupid design; which it would be if it were true. What's more disturbing though is that people are willing to accept slasher999's word for it.

  • There's only one thing worse... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by duncan_entwisle ( 587288 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @04:33AM (#7821077) Homepage
    There's only one thing worse than Beagle 2 crashing on Mars, and that would be Beagle 2 working on Mars and no one bothering to keep looking.

    While there is even a remote chance that it may be functional, it would be foolish to give up.

  • It looks like the Beagle is gone. Who knows what happened? Perhaps we will find out in 133 years when we land on Mars :)

    This means that two probes to Mars failed (this one, and the recent Japanese one). I think NASA is sending two which should arrive soon. I wonder if they'll make it.

    Sivaram Velauthapillai

  • mars express and beagle2 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by riskyrik ( 708727 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @06:21AM (#7821245)
    While there's still hope for Beagle2 until mothership Mars-Express starts listening from jan 4 on, let's not forget that Mars-Express itself is the main instrument here. As was stated before , Beagle2 was decided as an add-on late in the process of developing Mars-Express. Maybe (and if so sadly) Beagle2 is lost but Mars-Express seems to be very much alive and has the potential to send us loads of surface and sub-surface pictures of Mars. Scientists put 6 years in the development of Beagle2, but how many manyears were spend to Mars-Express? I bet much more than 6 years ...

  • OK - who forgot to set the clock? (Score:4, Funny)

    by saldek ( 139594 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @06:31AM (#7821260) Journal
    It's display is probably flashing 12:00.

  • obvious question (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ajs318 ( 655362 )
    So why don't we send a staffed mission to Mars? Something with a human being on board might stand a fighting chance of actually getting there -- if some unusual situation is encountered, it can be dealt with right there and then. It's not as though human beings are in short supply or require any special tools to manufacture. Even if the trip is strictly one-way, it wouldn't be the first time anyone didn't make it home {how many casualties in Iraq?} Beside which, the honour of "first Earthling buried on

    • Re:obvious question (Score:5, Funny)

      by RALE007 ( 445837 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @07:12AM (#7821319)
      It's not as though human beings are in short supply or require any special tools to manufacture.

      Speak for yourself. I think my human manufacturing tool is very special.

    • Oh wow the soil has 36% carbon instead of 35%.

      or

      Neeto, there was water here 50 million years ago.

      Big woop.
    • I always wondered about that, too. Why do we always think in terms of a round trip to Mars? Seems like without the mass of fuel and consumables a round trip would require it would be possible to send along enough equipment for Mars explorers to construct some type of under ground habitat to last the rest of their life.

      Radiation is the big problem getting there and staying there, and staying warm. I would assume underground would be the only realistic option. Be interesting to look at the mass comparis

  • Its obvious (Score:2, Funny)

    by madpierre ( 690297 )
    They picked Blur to write the callsign.

    The computer died of shame.

  • c:\ (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 28, 2003 @07:14AM (#7821323)

    C:\>ping Beagle 2

    Pinging Beagle 2 with 32 bytes of data:

    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.
    Request timed out.

    Ping statistics for Beagle 2:
    Packets sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

    C:\>
  • Do we not have a device powerful enough to take a photo of the lander when it enters our line of site to see if the panels are open, or if anything else went wrong?

    • No we don't (Score:3, Informative)

      by localroger ( 258128 )
      It took a fair amount of detective work to figure out where Mars Pathfinder, which is a bit bigger than Beagle, was with respect to the Mars Global Surveyor photos because the orbiter itself couldn't be resolved. And I'm pretty sure Mars Express does not have a better imager than MGS.

      Basically, if Beagle 2 doesn't wake up and start singing, we will probably never know why.

    • AFAIK Mars Express can shoot pictures with a resolution down to 2squaremeters. That should at least be able to identify the parachute or the airbags. I guess the main problem is that the potential area where Beagle went down is really huge and so it could take some time to find the probe.

      cu,
      Lispy

  • The onboard clock-failure theory (Score:4, Insightful)

    by haggar ( 72771 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @08:18AM (#7821439) Homepage Journal
    That's a very long shot. The scientists are hoping that this is the cause of the problem, as it could be corrected from the mothership. But this is just the most utterly pathetic wishful thinking.

    Most likely, the dumping baloons (whatever they are called) have failed, as a previously tested version of these ballons has failed. Apparently, these dumpers haven't been even tested before launch.

  • where are the facts? (Score:4, Informative)

    by bmfs ( 467488 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @10:48AM (#7821795)
    oh dear, some facts...

    firstly, beagle2 charges its batteries automatically.

    secondly, the airbag did fail its first tests, but it did pass its final test (there was not enough time to test further).

    sources? the bbc - they made a great 2 part documentary which followed beagle2 from genesis to launch.
  • Heads we send a single expensive space probe to mars with a fifty percent chance of catastrophic failure, heads we DON'T.

    I hope they gave it at least this much chance to save the money in the first place.

  • Feedback (Score:2, Interesting)

    by anakog ( 448790 )
    It seems that one of the most critical moments for the success of a Mars probe is the time between its entering the atmosphere and the establishment of first communication contact. It also seems that most of the probe designs these days have a weakness in that during this time there is a total communication blackout.

    IANARS (rocket scientist) but speaking from pure computer scientist's perspective (or any kind of scientist's perspective, as a matter of fact), it is essential to have as much feedback as po

  • Lucas, Prince of Darkness (Score:3, Funny)

    by One Louder ( 595430 ) on Sunday December 28, 2003 @09:01PM (#7824818)
    As a previous owner of a fine British-made MGB, it sounds to me like they used a Lucas electrical system.

    Q. Why do the British drink their beer warm?
    A. Because Lucas makes refrigerators.

    Q. What are the settings on Lucas headlight switches?
    A. Dim, Flicker and Off.

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