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Smallpox From The Past 211

An anonymous reader submits "Earlier this year, librarian Susanne Caro was looking through an 1888 book on United States Civil War medicine and discovered a small envelope labeled 'scabs from vaccination of W.B. Yarrington's children' and signed by Dr. W.D. Kelly, the author of the book. After a bit of research, she realized they might be smallpox scabs used in early live vaccination methods and contacted various officials including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC was excited by the find, because it gives them an untreated specimen from over a century ago, and a chance to look at the disease's evolution. Although the FBI had concerns that the smallpox may have been planted in the book, most of the researchers believe the scabs are too old to be dangerous, and they fear they may not even be able to yield live smallpox."
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Smallpox From The Past

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  • Interesting (Score:5, Funny)

    by shawnywany ( 664241 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:08PM (#7818041)
    Sounds creepily like the beginning of a Robin Cook novel...
  • Because I would hate to contract small pox just for working during a strike...
  • uhh (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld.gmail@com> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:12PM (#7818051) Homepage
    Ok, the FBI thinks someone planted smallpox, in an envelope LABELLED with biohazard information, in a 19th century book, in Santa Fe. What the hell is wrong with them? I mean, that's just moronic.
    • Re:uhh (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Better safe from psychos than sorry?

      Seriously, I'm glad they consider it a possibility, and hopefully prove it wrong.
      • Re:uhh (Score:1, Flamebait)

        by kfg ( 145172 )
        Better safe from psychos than sorry?

        The FBI are psychos with badges though, it's tough to be safe from them.

        KFG
    • Re:uhh (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:48PM (#7818198)
      Actually, they were worried the story was
      a hoax by someone who wanted to create fear
      and panic.

      As you might recall, after the US was hit with
      a bioweapons attack (resulting in numerous
      deaths, and the shut down of the U.S. Senate
      offices), it become popular for people to
      "copy cat" the weapon. Soon, people were
      sending packets of white talc power in the
      mail with threatening notes, all in hopes of
      causing a panic and shutting down a business
      for a few days.

      As we've gotten used to this sort of ruse,
      and developed technologies to detect anthrax
      spores, the people trying to spread panic have
      gotten more clever.

      Consider, for example, how hard it would be to
      create panic by sending a note through the mail
      claiming that the envelope contained small
      pox. Since small pox is tightly controlled,
      and highly infectious, it's unlikely a group
      (other than a government) has a sample of the
      virus. So the hoax would quickly unravel.

      A clever person who wanted to create a plausible
      story about how a small pox virus came to be
      found in a public space might have to work
      harder. For example, they could make up a
      story about old medical samples, museum equipment,
      etc.

      And so in this case, it's entirely reasonable
      for the FBI to question the origin of this
      envelope. No, I don't think they started
      out by saying "This was planted by Al Queda."
      Instead, they started with a skeptical
      line of questions: who had the book? was it
      ever check out before? where was it kept?
      who had access to this text? is the person
      claiming to make the find a real librarian?
      etc.

      I think in this case, you, my friend, are the
      one who jumped to conclusions about the
      conduct of the FBI. Indeed, it would seem
      that your post exhibits the sort of haste
      and rush-to-judgement that you seek to
      condemn.
      • Re:uhh (Score:5, Funny)

        by mabu ( 178417 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @03:47PM (#7818480)
        Actually, they were worried the story was
        a hoax by someone who wanted to create fear
        and panic.


        In addition to "Fair and Balanced", I believe Fox News has "Fear and Panic" copyrighted. Watch yourself or you could get sued.
      • Re:uhh (Score:3, Informative)

        by nomadic ( 141991 )
        You're missing the point entirely. Their first act was to ask who had the book. They then put the envelope in a PAPER BAG and MAILED it to a laboratory? What kind of idiocy is that? The first thing they should have done, is quarantine the envelope. Then they should have asked who came into contact with it in order to make sure nobody was infected. Asking whether a borrower could have planted it is just kind of dumb. They should use common sense, just like every other damn law enforcement agency out t
    • Re:uhh (Score:2, Insightful)

      by niko9 ( 315647 ) *
      They are just trying to rule out all the possibilites, and it doesn't hurt to just ask. And if it was found that there was some funny buisness going on you would be the first Monday morning quaterback.

      Never assume anything, stranger things have happened.

      And you comment was modded up +5? This place shold be called the Neverdot Ranch for christs sake.

    • Re:uhh (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Part of the reason they wanted to investigate who might have had the book before is to trace down the possibility of an infection. Consider these scenarios:
      1. A library patron becomes infected after borrowing the book, without their knowledge, and causes a plague.
      2. Al Queda sends out sympathizers to libraries, medical museums, and other storage facilities to find possible specimens, just like this book contained.
      3. A person with a little medical training and a lot of bills to pay decided to collect a few sp
    • by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @03:20PM (#7818325) Homepage Journal
      Don't worry, this is the FBI which has made short shrift of Osama bin Laden, singlehandedly captured Saddam Hussein, cornered the Anthrax Mailer, cleverly foiled the 9/11 planebombings on advance intelligence, have kept Chinese industrial spies away from our tech secrets, has won the drug war, busted the thieves at Enron, WorldCom, Global Crossing, Arthur Anderson, and the rest. They found the malicious Bush leaker who blew CIA agent Plames cover in Niger, discredited the 16 State of the Union words about the imaginary African uranium bound for Iraq, preempted Iranian and North Korean nuclear bombs. They nabbed the 2000 election vote riggers, and are already jailing the criminals at the top of the 2004 eVote insecurity debacles. If they think something is scary, we should all bow our heads in fear, and double their budget again. If it were possible to promote the FBI chief, we would; instead, we'll just have to settle for the Patriot Act, which dissolves that archaic Bill of Rights which was just getting in the way.
    • They didn't "think" it, they simply asked. And if they hadn't asked, they should have been fired for incompetency. Geez, it's friggin smallpox, not exactly your everyday thing.
  • fear? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:12PM (#7818052)
    they fear they may not even be able to yield live smallpox

    is this a bad thing?? I'd feel better knowing that no remnants of the virus were able to survive that long.

    • They'll likely try to culture some smallpox to get more material for the comparison. If they can't culture any of the old stuff they may still be able to cross the genetic material of the antiquated and modern strains - perhaps creating a super mutant strain - mua-ha-ha-hahaha!
  • scabs (Score:5, Funny)

    by Graspee_Leemoor ( 302316 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:13PM (#7818054) Homepage Journal
    About the only time you will find scabs in a book and be excited about it. Mostly you'd say "Ok, I'm only going to buy NEW from now on".

    graspee

    • Hello... Amazon? I found a scab in my book...
    • Re:scabs (Score:3, Insightful)

      by svanstrom ( 734343 )

      About the only time you will find scabs in a book and be excited about it. Mostly you'd say "Ok, I'm only going to buy NEW from now on".

      Anthrax in envelopes you didn't expect is one thing, although not easily avoided you can minimize the risks in such situations; but picture terrorists selling things with anthrax in them on sites such as ebay and amazon.com.

      They might not be able to target the people they want, but they could reach 1'000's of people and completely ruin the business of selling used things

    • Re:scabs (Score:2, Funny)

      by bonzomcgrue ( 719128 )

      It could be worse...
      • You're at Pizza Hut, dining from their all-you-can-eat salad bar, singlehandedly trying to put them out of business with your furious consumption of iceberg lettuce, shredded carrots, and (low fat) ranch dressing. You're almost looking at the bottom of your bowl after your fourth trip, when you notice something in mired in the dressing below. Still chewing, you fish an envelope from the bowl and using the side of your fork you scrape the dressing off the paper. In runny ink, you r
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It's largepox you should be afraid of.
    • It's largepox you should be afraid of.

      It is called "smallpox" to distinguish it from the important one -- the one just called "pox". Otherwise known as syphillis.

      In the movie "Dangerous Liaisons" Glenn Close's character is ostracized because she is a heartless troublemaker. In the original book she is stricken with "pox", aka syphillis, which was more virulent in those days, and caused horrible sores, and, eventually, general paralysis of the insane. [mdx.ac.uk]

  • it is all going according to plan...

    ::DISCLAIMER::
    OK, OK, this is totally just a joke, and I really don't think I should have even posted it. Its a joke, I repeat, A JOKE.
  • by Fruny ( 194844 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:20PM (#7818087)
    One more reason to have the government tightly control what books you check out.
    Libraries are a breeding ground for terrorists, I tell you.
  • by hao2lian ( 726435 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:25PM (#7818109) Homepage
    Hey, are these raisins? *munch*
  • by InfiniteWisdom ( 530090 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:26PM (#7818113) Homepage
    From the article:
    the envelope rests in a freezer at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, awaiting a battery of tests.

    Yes, after lying in a library book for 115 years I can see why is important that it be frozen now.
  • by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:28PM (#7818118) Homepage
    What a wonderful idea for a time capsule that would be. Create a time capsule to be opened in hundreds or thousands of years and place in it some of the diseases which may have died off by then and which the generations of the future will not have had the chance to enjoy.

    Infectious disease: The gift that keeps on giving.
  • by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <.moc.liamg. .ta. .ettexut.> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:29PM (#7818123) Homepage Journal
    Within days, two FBI agents visited the Santa Fe library to pick up the scabs. They questioned a surprised Caro for half an hour, asking who had last used the book and whether she felt the borrower may have "planted" the scabs inside

    Yep. With all that Arab oil money they are funded with, al Qaida has invented a time machine, gone back to 1888, and planted smallpox in a book they know some woman in the future will pick up and read.

  • by nicku ( 158877 )
    I was just eating lunch when this story came up...and lunch almost came up with it...nice timing...
    • Oh thanks for putting that image in my head. Now I need to go change my tshirt and get a new keyboard.
    • Ugh, you stole my subject line. I couldn't help but think that by 2103, some librarian will find a collection of old cigar boxes from Mrs. Pennington's 1973 first grade class full of chewed crayons and uneaten boogers. Imagine the excitement of 22nd century cootie researchers.
  • 1. virus -- [princeton.edu] ((virology) ultramicroscopic infectious agent that replicates itself only within cells of living hosts; many are pathogenic; a piece of nucleic acid (DNA or RNA) wrapped in a thin coat of protein)

    In viruses, which represent the border between living and dead matter, [nobel.se]there are simpler aggregates between nucleic acids and proteins. A virus can be said to be genetic material without a cell of its own, and the structure of viruses can provide clues to the more complicated organisation of the hereditary material in higher organisms.

    Virus represent the border between living and dead matter. I thought that it meant that when the virus came across a host cell it could inject its DNA and multiply and that is why it is living , and when it didn't it just lay dormant i.e. it was dead matter. Wasn't the whole premise of Jurrasic Park [imdb.com]based on this notion ?

    But in the article it says ....

    Several years ago in Kentucky, she said, a construction crew unearthed a metal coffin containing the mummified corpse of an apparent smallpox victim that researchers traced to the mid-1800s. The CDC checked the tissue for live virus and came up empty.

    There's also a slim chance, researchers say, that the scabs could yield live smallpox virus -- believed to reside in only two laboratories in the world -- and provide valuable information on the deadly plague.

    If the virus is nothing but the DNA and a protein coating around it, why are the people wanting it to be live ?

    Am I missing something ? What am I missing ?

    • Because if you had a sample of Smallpox from 1888 or so you could compare it to the one in the vault and see if there have been any changes in the DNA. Some Virii change over time more than others.
    • by Slowping ( 63788 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:41PM (#7818175) Homepage Journal

      If the virus is nothing but the DNA and a protein coating around it, why are the people wanting it to be live ?

      Am I missing something ? What am I missing ?


      They are probably referring to whether or not the DNA information is sufficiently in-tact. If the DNA is too far destroyed, the virus probably won't be able to reproduce itself even after infecting a live cell.
      • First, I think if they can get any DNA out of it, that would be nice. If they mostly (at least supposedly) want to study the evolution of the virus, I'm sure they can garner some information just by comparing the DNA sequence of whatever they pull out, vs. the "current" stock. Of course it's always best to get the whole genome, but there will almost always be highly conserved (having a very low mutation rate) DNA regions. In organisms with large genomes, you can often compare those against each other to s

        • Hm ... I'm slightly confused. If the latest vaccine used was cowpox-based, are they trying to study the similarities between now-cowpox and then-smallpox? I can see them wanting to understand how a virus has evolved, but I don't see what exactly comparing it to cowpox would do. Perhaps they want to study how the two have diverged. Any thoughts?


          Well, I think that most likely they'd compare these smallpox samples with the frozen ones. You know, the "last" of the smallpox virus, controlled by the governme
    • "Live" virus (Score:5, Informative)

      by porkchop_d_clown ( 39923 ) <mwheinz.me@com> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:42PM (#7818183)
      In this context, "live" virus is able to infect and reproduce. "Killed" virus has been damaged to the point that it cannot infect a cell. Hence the concern over using "live" virus vaccines - the vaccines use a damaged or weakened virus that the body can easily defeat - but occasionally a few full strength particles get through and trigger the disease instead of vaccinating against it. "Killed" virus vaccines use fragments of destroyed viruses, ensuring you can't get sick from them, but possibly not as effective as the live kind.
    • If the virus is nothing but the DNA and a protein coating around it, why are the people wanting it to be live ?

      Am I missing something ? What am I missing ?


      I think they just mean viable, not really "live", since "live" has a weird meaning for a virus. If they couldn't find live virus samples, then either the virus wasn't there, or it was, but is now "dead", in the sense that it can't work anymore.

      True, viruses are just dna and protein, or something like that... Collections of complicated chemicals, bas
      • But, IANAChemist, nor a biologist, so take my words with a grain of salt

        Well, I am a Biologist and your answer is right!

        The basic unit of life is the cell. Anything subcellular is not considered "alive" by scientific standards.

        -DD
        • OK, a virus is subcellular so it is biological but not really life, or perhaps it is a peculiar kind of parasite of symbiont.

          I am wondering if a virus is really a separate entity or is really intrinsically a property of the host. Is a cold virus really just that, or is it a piece of human genetic machinery that has the capability of being shared between humans when one human picks their nose?

          The reason I got to wondering is that it seems diseases that stick around have some kind of evolutionary purpose

    • I think that you want to be thinking "live" as in ammunition, rather than "live" as in animal.
    • If the virus is nothing but the DNA and a protein coating around it, why are the people wanting it to be live?

      Am I missing something? What am I missing?

      As a card-carrying virologist [northwestern.edu] let me give you a run down on the information you're missing. If you don't consider the type of nucleic acid (RNA or DNA), there are two types of viruses that infect mammalian cells - enveloped and non-enveloped. Enveloped viruses (such as smallpox) have an outer lipid bilayer (the envelope) that is studded with glycopr
  • by Mikkeles ( 698461 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:39PM (#7818163)
    I guess the World Health Organization's [who.int] crowing about smallpox eradication [who.int] was a bit too early!
    • Anyone who thinks that the CDC (and their equivalents around the globe) don't have a small frozen supply, seriously needs to take a moment and think. There are plenty of reasons to keep a small amount of any disease causing agent around.

      I would expect them to have a small supply of every disease causing agent they can get their hands on. It only seems prudent.
  • by mesocyclone ( 80188 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @02:54PM (#7818218) Homepage Journal
    There's also a slim chance, researchers say, that the scabs could yield live smallpox virus -- believed to reside in only two laboratories in the world

    Only the naive believe that live smallpox exists in only two labs in the world. A more accurate statement in the article would have been "only legally allowed in two labs in the world."

    There is strong reason to believe that North Korea has the virus. France is also believed to have it. Iraq may have had it up until recently, as it was endemic in the region in the late sixties, and just a few scabs in a refrigerator would have been enough. It used to be common practice for scientists and doctors to keep a bit of smallpox in the fridge when they gathered it from patients. Hence there could be samples, possibly not even labelled or known to the owners, in a number of places in the world.

    One reason that the plan to destroy all stocks at the CDC and the official Russian lab was the realization that rogue countries probably had the virus, and hence destroying it would damage future defense attempts.

    Furthermore, the USSR and later Russia maintained stockpiles of 20 tons of weaponized smallpox [miis.edu] in the eighties (authorized by Gorbachev) and probably to the present, and loaded it into missile warheads. Furthermore, a number of their scientists have since emigrated to other countries. In 1994 a number visited North Korea for unknown reasons. One former Soviet BW officieal entered into a deal with Iraq to sell 5000 liter fermenters.

    And then we have accidental discoveries like these scabs. Smallpox can survive in scabs for a long time, although >100 years is stretching it.
    • Why is the heck would the Russians want smallpox or any other bioweapon on an ICBM (I heard Ken Alibek on TV suggesting that it was for ICBM's)? I can understand a nuke because besides killing people, a nuke can take out fortified sites and infrastructure and impair the ability to fight back. Also, a modern ICBM has a high speed pointy-end forward reentry vehicle, unlike the blunt RV's of early RV's. The blunt body RV has less of a heat shield requirement, but its rapid deceleration and slow entry hurts
      • At many times, the Russians have felt that they could win a nuclear war against the US.

        And as far as what good is it? The population after a nuclear attack is especially vulnerable (reduced resistance due to stress or radiation sickness, medical facilities overflowed, lots of movement to spread the disease).

        The Russians could simply have a vast supply of vaccine ready to distribute.

        As far as how you dispense the agent, you use a different RV.

        There is no doubt that the USSR had a vast bioweapons program.
      • Considering the delivered virus particles would likely get fried to oblivion along with whatever else the ICBM hits, this sounds to me more like Rube Goldberg's Doomsday Device!!

      • More than likely these would have been used after the inital nuclear strike. It's probably more cost-effective to have a disease spread over the mid-west US, western Canada, Mexico, and other places any remaining Americans would have fled to.
    • There is no doubt that Kanatjan Alibekov knows a lkt about bio weapons. It is also clear that the island of Vozrozhdeniye is contaminated to hell and that Biopreperat was involved with the nasties. I think that he is exaggerating though because of his involvement with the bioweapons detection and defense industry.
  • Grow a dangerous desease and see how it affects people... Oops, seems like its spreading everywhere... "my bad"
    • Grow a dangerous desease and see how it affects people... Oops, seems like its spreading everywhere... "my bad"

      At first glance, I thought your post was going to read:

      1. Grow a dangerous disease and see how it affects people...
      2. ???
      3. PROFIT!

  • by moehoward ( 668736 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @03:04PM (#7818256)
    Tom Ridge will claim that we now need to ban books in order to be more "secure".

    The FBI needs to get a life if they were at all concerned about this. How embarassing. Morons. Everything is "terrorism" until proven otherwise. My god.
  • I recall a study a while ago that was requesting old pairs of binoculars so that they could measure the air inside for pollutants as it could be used to determine air quality from years past.

    Btw: This 'finding' does seem like a need beginning to a bad horror movie.
  • "most of the researchers believe the scabs are too old to be dangerous, and they fear they may not even be able to yield live smallpox."

    Damn! No virus we spent the last century trying to erradicate -- I've pissed myself in fear over the end of this menace ;(
  • I, For one (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland@y[ ]o.com ['aho' in gap]> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @03:32PM (#7818415) Homepage Journal
    welcome are new FBI overlords.

    Seriously, this was probably a routine chit chat thay have when enybody discovers something like this.

    I'm sure they new full well it wasn't a real issue. otherwise it would have been VANS of FBI agents.
  • by mabu ( 178417 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @03:38PM (#7818440)
    the FBI had concerns that the smallpox may have been planted in the book

    In a related story, the authorities are now scouring libraries coast to coast to find the book entitled, "Where I Am Hiding" by Osama Bin Laden.


    • > In a related story, the authorities are now scouring libraries coast to coast to find the book entitled, "Where I Am Hiding" by Osama Bin Laden.

      Easy; he's hiding in Iraq's WMD storage facility.

    • In a related story, the authorities are now scouring libraries coast to coast to find the book entitled, "Where I Am Hiding" by Osama Bin Laden.

      A source close to the FBI stated that they would be questioning Waldo, as "soon as we've found him. He's a slippery sucker, tho, so it may take some time."

  • by KFW ( 3689 ) * on Saturday December 27, 2003 @07:04PM (#7819276)

    AIAAD (Actually, I am a doctor). In fact, my specialty is Infectious Diseases.

    By 1888 vaccination against smallpox using cowpox or vaccinia virus was a common practice, as opposed to "variolization" (inoculation with actual smallpox virus, aka variola virus), since the former was so much safer. This is touched on only briefly in the Washington Post article. So even if there is viable virus in the scab, it may not be smallpox. For reference see the first part of this chapter [nih.gov].

    >K

  • CDC: Ohh! An envelope full of infectious scabs... This is the best Christmas ever!
  • Nurse: Dr, what should I do with these smallpox scabs?
    Dr: Oh, just put it in a book so 100 years from now someone can find it and get all excited.

    Anyone else find this just a tiny bit sick? Saving scabs for later use?

  • Current odds of smallpox remerging by 2010 is currently a bit less than 30 percent [ideosphere.com] according to Ideosphere's risk analysis.


    My question on this issue: why wouldn't PCR allow the DNA for a smallpox virus to be recreated from such a sample(or for that matter from samples dug up from some graveyard someplace)? I'm not that familiar with virology-pointers to the literature would be welcome.

  • What is really needed now is a moderation option called "Eeewwwww!"

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