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Space Science

Bill Nye's Marsdial 98

Posted by michael from the takes-a-licking-keeps-on-ticking dept.
Some Clown writes "MSNBC via the Seattle Post Intelligencer is reporting that Bill Nye the Science Guy, as part of the Earthdial Project has got what's being billed as a 'Marsdial' put onto the Mars Rover. Interestingly, it is now the official backup for orienting the Mars Rover in case of primary camera failure. Maybe an old fashioned sundial is just what the doctor ordered after the many math and other blunders of late. This whole Earthdial Project seems pretty interesting as well. They're trying to set up a worldwide network of sundials tracked via webcam. The goal is to track the sun's movements as viewed from many points on earth, as well as from Mars. Definitely interesting... at least if the 'Marsdial' doesn't disintegrate upon landing." There's a little more technical description of the Marsdial in our earlier story.
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Bill Nye's Marsdial More

Bill Nye's Marsdial

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  • Probably Stupid Question (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PakProtector ( 115173 ) <[cevkiv] [at] [gmail.com]> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @07:15AM (#7816745) Journal

    If they're going to use the sundial to align the camera if the camera goes out, how are they going to align the sundial to make sure it's correct in the first place?

    • The pointy end goes in the up direction (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The pointy end goes in the up direction
    • how are they going to align the sundial to make sure it's correct in the first place?

      I don't think sticking it the right end up is that hard.

    • First, I think it's more or less given that the sundial is fixed onto a part of the robot that doesn't move, most likely the main body.

      I'm not positive, but I think that they'll be able to find the craft's position based off of two things: the current position of the Sun - if they know where the Sun is, they should be able to predict how the shadows would fall on the sundial - and the way that shadows actually are falling on the sundial.

      To the best of my knowledge, those two pieces of information should

      • If the sudial's positioning gets screwed up while landing or on Mars, though, then a whole new host of problems spring up...

        They're expecting the sundial's starting position to be random... nobody can predict how the craft is going to bounce during the landing. However, they're sure that they're going to be able to get the thing pointed upwards, and then after a Mars-day of watching the sun cross it they'll be able to solve for Mars-North and then lazer-etch markings into it.
      • Bit of a disclaimer: I'm a high school student, and even though I try, odds are I had no idea what I was talking about when I wrote the parent comment.

        What can I say? It made sense to me then...

      • The sundial was justy ADDED to a circular instrument that was gonna be used for calibration... the actual sundial has nothing to do with the calibration. it just occupies the same space. Learn more by listening to the Bill Nye interview at planetary.org/radio

  • Alternative use (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gringer ( 252588 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @07:16AM (#7816749)
    I have noticed [guardian.co.uk] that the Beagle 2 may have a problem with its clock:

    Another possibility is that Beagle's clock might have been reset during its descent to the Martian surface, and so it is trying to call home when nobody is listening.

    Now this potential problem has a solution! The rovers just need to use the Marsdial to calibrate their clocks on landing.

  • Bill Nye the Science Guy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tempelherr ( 559964 ) <thunder35@GAUSSh ... m minus math_god> on Saturday December 27, 2003 @07:16AM (#7816752) Homepage
    I always really thought this guy was really amazing. From what I've seen, he actually has the somewhat rare ability to make science interesting for kids to learn and experiment with. I may be a bit biased though, as growing up here in WA, we often watched his videos in class when it dealt with the particular scientific subject that we studying at the time.

    One time, he even came to the elementary school I went to and gave a presentation on precipitation and weather patterns. It was actually one of the most entertaining presentations I ever saw at school. I havn't heard anything about what he has been up to in years, but I'm glad to see that he is still actively contributing to the world, and perhaps continuing to interest kids with his wierd experiments.

    • You know, everyone seems to love Nye, and he is exposing lots of kids to science, which is a Good Thing. That said, as a scientist, I end up cringing anytime I watch his program. The science on the show often gets submerged under the painful quick-cut MTV-style editing. Call me an old fogey, but after watching more than about 5 minutes, I start feeling ill.

      Although it may not be eye- or rating-catching, an important part of science is cultivating an attention span that allows observation and rational t

      • Actually I kinda like his show (though admittedly I am from the MTV generation :).

        Incidentally. I think billnye.com got hit with a secondary slashdot effect... go to his flash web site and it asks you to come back again later.

        CmdrTaco, how could you!? You Slashdotted Bill Nye! :)
        • Now if theres one person I'd like to see a /. interview with this month, it would be the science guy.

          and I fucking hate hearing it called the "mtv" generation. Keeps reminding me of the time I was in a board meeting with older people at work who presented a powerpoint on how to, "MTVift our training seminars to better reach the younger generation". they were like 55, I'm like 20. I dont think they get it either.

          why am i bothering, this isnt even on the homepage anymore and there is no way someone is a
    • Bill Nye is, supposedly, putting together a new television entitled "The Eyes of Nye" [current.org]. Unlike the children's program, "The Eyes of Nye" will be aimed towards adults and will deal with controversial science topics. Also, Nye is serving as a professor [cornelldailysun.com] at Cornell University, the university where he graduated from.
      I'm glad to see him come back. I remember that he was a strong voice against the Kansas Board of Education's evolution nonsense. Although I was in college when the decision was passed, and my ol
    • Bill Nye was a great show to watch around 4:20 if you know what I mean. There were jokes all over the place. I loved the "X of science", where X was whatever item he was using to illustrate the scientific principle of the day. Also the music video parodies of current pop songs were hilarious.

      Have you ever seen Bill Nye man? Have you ever seen Bill Nye, ON WEEEED?

  • Astrophysics for kindergarten 101 (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    > The goal is to track the sun's movements
    > as viewed from many points on earth, as
    > well as from Mars.

    Ok, kids, pop quiz: what celestial movement does a sundial track?

  • I think it is great, I my self remember wakeing up all early to watch his most wonderful TV show. "No i'm not a geek". I learned about everything, in a fun and interesting way. To hear that Bill Nye is now interplanetery, just make my heart feel good.

    • Re:Go Bill Nye (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

      Actually, I hated that stupid show. Admittedly, I was many years older than its target audience, but I can't imagine a kid with a bad enough case of ADD that he needed the same *tiny* snippet of information repeated every couple of seconds for the duration of a 20 minute show just to get it in his head.

      When I was young, I watched proper science shows on PBS, and learned more for it. Of course, at the time I thought my dad was a twit for making me watch those shows, but it was hardly torture!

  • So what do people do with a sundial, when the sun won't come up for another month?

    http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_rstablew.pl
    • I had a similar thought... went to the page, and the first thing I see is an image of a nifty sundial.. in of all places, Seattle, Washington. Since when does Seattle get any sun in the first place? ;)

      • Seattle doesn't get sun. However, the people in Seattle hope that with enough sundials maybe the sun will be attracted to the state. BTW, almost impossible to buy sun screen there (like there really is any kind of need) but it's packed full of "fake tan" products and tanning booths and coffee shops likely support the whole state. :) I used to live there, I should know..Notice I don't live there anymore? [g]

  • As seen on TechTV (Score:5, Informative)

    by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) * on Saturday December 27, 2003 @08:50AM (#7816904) Homepage
    Bill Nye was on TechTV [techtv.com] a couple weeks ago talking about this. It was pretty interesting. They have a video of it on the TechTV site. http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/howto/story/0,2 4330,3587881,00.html

  • Paralax Astronomy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bigattichouse ( 527527 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @09:04AM (#7816924) Homepage
    I wonder (thinking of all these angles of observation), if given observation points on multiple planets, if you would get an actual "3d" representation of the local universe.. or if the distances involved would require the observation points to be further apart.

    • I wonder (thinking of all these angles of observation), if given observation points on multiple planets, if you would get an actual "3d" representation of the local universe.. or if the distances involved would require the observation points to be further apart.

      Astronomy 101: if you're trying to observe something far away, then you can observe it once now, and once again in 6 months. You'll get the 'parallax' you're looking for because our planet will be on the opposite side of our orbit around the sun,

  • William Nye is dead. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 27, 2003 @09:33AM (#7816993)

    Science Guy Bill Nye Killed in Massive Vinegar/Baking Soda Explosion [theonion.com].

    Truly an American icon.

  • It is Good Bill Nye is Still Doing Science (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Famatra ( 669740 ) on Saturday December 27, 2003 @09:54AM (#7817053) Journal

    I am glad Bill Nye is still participating in science. Its unfortunate that his reputation seemed to have suffered in the scientific community after his Disney show Bill Nye the Science Guy, and is now relegated to working on the show 'Battle Bots' for comedy central.

    An interesting article / interview [scientificamerican.com] from Scientific American also mentions a wide contempt in the scientific community for scientists engaging the public, for example it is likely Carl Sagan was denied membership to the national academy of sciences because he was on television. As well a scientist deserving of the Nobel Prize, who wrote children's books, was also ridiculed.

    Is it no wonder why the public is so science ignorant when scientists are punished for speaking to and educating them. Hopefully, with Bill Nye as the example, scientists will be more willing to engage the public.

    • I'm not so sure it't punishment per say, but how the scientific "culture" works. Society at large may look at professors and think that their primary job is teaching but very few professors view it this way. Science is highly competitive and extremely time consuming and there often doesn't seem to be time enough to do other things. Some professors in the sciences look at just teaching as punishment since it takes time away from research; assignment of a heavy teaching load is a way to get rid of a tenure

    • Re:It is Good Bill Nye is Still Doing Science (Score:4, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday December 27, 2003 @01:33PM (#7817921)
      Bill Nye's formal background is more as a comic actor than a scientist. "Bill Nye: The Science Guy" was a character he first used on "Almost Live!" which was a Seattle local show that at the peak of its run was syndicated nationally. Pat Cashman, with his deep announcer voice, was also an Almost Live! cast member and is seen frequently on Nye's show as well. Nye was always interested in science, and as a result he made sure that his Bill Nye: The Science Guy show was accurate and at lot of influence in the direction of the show. Yet, he really doesn't have any science research cred, he's a broadcaster who knows how to present grade-school level topics in a way that most people can understand. His sundial idea is just a little too simplistic for NASA to have come up with on their own, which is why they initially rejected it. However, there is valid science because a sundial will always give you a fairly accurate way to tell time no matter which planet in the solar system you're on, and also a valid way to solve for orientation. Two things that previous missions may have stumbled over... a checksum is a very nice thing to have sometimes...

  • sigh of relief (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Blob Pet ( 86206 )
    apparently, rumors of his demise [theonion.com] have been greatly exaggerated.
  • But it now appears the Seattle sundial may be much more than an artistic color calibrator and timepiece. It's a necessary backup.

    "NASA engineers orient the Mars rover by looking at the sun through the panoramic camera," Sullivan explained. But they only recently recognized they had no orientation system to back up the camera should it fail, he said.

    Each rover is expected to cruise the Martian surface for three months, collecting samples of rock and soil, and each vehicle's success depends upon having it

    • Key words (Score:3, Informative)

      by Eevee ( 535658 )

      panoramic camera

      There are a total of nine cameras [nasa.gov] on the rover. I suspect that the pair of Navcams (which don't have solar filters) would be used for task should the pair of Pancams malfunction.

    • I would assume they are smart enough to think of this. You don't need a camera to read a sundial.

      It could be over the solar panels, and where the panels aren't getting light, that's where the ball or whatever is casting its shadow.

      I'm sure there are more ways to do this, but that's just one.

  • our natural rhythms (Score:2, Interesting)

    by unger ( 42254 )
    during the last daylight savings time switch i actually went and read a bit about it. what i found particularly interesting were some details behind the creation of standard time [webexhibits.org]:

    "Standard time in time zones was instituted in the U.S. and Canada by the railroads on 18 November 1883. Before then, time of day was a local matter, and most cities and towns used some form of local solar time, maintained by some well-known clock (for example, on a church steeple or in a jeweler's window). The new standard time
    • when living and communicating locally, it is possible to live without knowing exactly what time it is. for instance, you could say, "i'll meet you near dawn," and that is relevant to me if i live near you.

      i live in an intentional community, and we serve community meals at approximately 12:30 (for lunch) and 6PM (for dinner). so i could choose to go down to the lodge for a meal at those times (and probably end up waiting a while), or i could wait for the bell. if i am too far away to hear the bell, i have
  • Fucking Rocks.
  • Take a globe of the world, one that's mounted in such a way that the axis can be tilted to any angle. Take it outside. Put it in a sunlit area. Turn the globe's support horizontally until the axis is pointing true north/south. Then adjust the tilt of the axis and the globe's rotation on the axis until your own town's position on the globe is straight up. You've just aligned the globe to match the orientation of the Earth.

    Now, when you look at the globe, the part of the globe that is in sunlight shows you t

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