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Science

Caffeine Level In Sea Causes Concern 72

Posted by simoniker from the bottle-it dept.
DarkHand writes "Researchers at the Norwegian Institute for Air Research (NILU) have spent three years looking for trace remains of pharmaceuticals in drainage water and the sea near Tromsoe in northern Norway. The project has focused on 16 substances and a high concentration of caffeine was one of the surprising finds. Need a lift in the morning? Have a refreshing glass of seawater!"
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Caffeine Level In Sea Causes Concern More

Caffeine Level In Sea Causes Concern

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  • But wait a week or to until it's good for you again.

  • Would a desalination plant remove the caffine? If the 'filtering' of the water being dumped into bodies of water doesnt do it, when it comes back into our pipes will it be caffinated also?

    Seems to me we will all be a bunch of caffine addicts in the future.
    • You mean we arn't already caffine addicts?

    • Re:Question... Yes & No (Score:5, Informative)

      by G4from128k ( 686170 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @09:18AM (#7576886)
      Would a desalination plant remove the caffine?

      Yes and no. Desalination by reverse osmosis or distillation would remove the caffeine (and many other pharmaceutical byproducts) from sea water when making drinking water. But the concentrated salt water dumped out of the desalination plant would still contain these pollutants.

      Standard treatment plants used for making drinking water from freshwater would probably NOT remove caffeine or other pharmaceuticals. At best, the chlorination/oxygenation/UV purification process might degrade the pharma chemicals. At worst, these purification processes might convert the pharma chemicals into even more toxic analogs of the chemicals.

      • Re:Question... Yes & No (Score:5, Interesting)

        by 3waygeek ( 58990 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @10:41AM (#7577212)
        Reverse osmosis doesn't necessarily remove everything; the city of Santa Barbara, CA built a RO-based desalination plant in the early 90s, at a cost of roughly $40 million. When they fired up the plant (spring of 92, IIRC), the water it put out still tasted a bit of the sea, according to most observers.

        However, during the plant's construction, the drought that had motivated the project had subsided. So after a few weeks of operational testing (i.e. none of its output went into the distribution system), the plant was mothballed. AFAIK, it's never been started up since.
  • Thousands of college students across the country die from drinking too much seawater.

  • In other news... (Score:4, Funny)

    by arrow ( 9545 ) <mike AT damm DOT com> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @11:24PM (#7575027) Homepage Journal
    Water Joe [waterjoe.com] files suit aginst Norway for infringement [waterjoe.com].

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @11:30PM (#7575061)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Seems like a lot of things make caffeine. How does the level in the middle of the ocean compare? How about areas away from human habitation? The researchers think the caffeine comes from humans, but I don't see enough information in the article to know anything about the source.

      • Re:Speaking for myself (Score:5, Informative)

        by JGski ( 537049 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @12:36AM (#7575276) Journal
        Sorry, the discovery of pharmaceutical micro-pollution is several years old. It's quite real and quite man-made. I'm dubious of man-made greenhouse but this is pretty linkable. In temperate climates there aren't any natual caffeine sources. Even in tropical climate you have to be downstream from a cocoa plantation, etc. The original paper and other articles [google.com] about this new paper mentioned ibuprofen, antidepressants, heart and cholesterol medicines. The issue is that:
        • most people don't realize that most medicines pass through the kidneys unmetabolized
        • water treatment doesn't remove these chemicals
        • micro-pollution such as estrogens are known to affect fertility and fetal development of everything from fish to mammals, and probably also humans
        Previous [google.com] studies [sciencenews.org] have shown similar findings in freshwater lakes and rivers, with similar medicines appearing including:
        • Caffeine levels in freshwater rivers and lakes followed diurnal cycles peaking in sewage plants after mid-morninng bathroom breaks, and hours later rising in processed effluent in open water - caffeine is passed almost entirely unmetabolized.
        • synthetic estrogen and progesterone from oral contraceptive have been found in water supplies and may be factors in amphibian and fish population declines - perhaps also a factor, combined with pseudo-estrogens like phthalates (you like "new car smell"?), etc., in the 50-year decline in human sperm count levels in industrialized nations
        • many drugs are synthetic with persistence comparable to DDT or Chlordane - they do not breakdown
        • if micro-pollutants are bioactive in other species or in humans, they may well be affecting us already - what happens when we are all receiving active doses of heart medicine, etc., all our lives from our own water supply?

    • Re:Speaking for myself (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @11:52PM (#7575155) Journal
      Mmm code sharks...

      Anywho... I'm not aware of any study ont he effect of caffine on sharks - or any sea life - but I'm sure it exists (Or will shortly!).

      Every species reacts to chemicals in different ways. Hell, individuals of te same species react differently! I wouldn't automatically assume that caffine will have the same effect on sharks as it does on humans.

      Good example? Chocolate. Cocoa is very poisonous to cats and dogs (Specifically, the chemical Theobromine). Most humans can eat it with no ill effects. Similar items include garlic, onions, and macadamia nuts.

      Oddly, cows enjoy chocolate as well. Can't remember where I saw it, but I think there's a place in Australia that feeds their dairy cows "reject" (read: mangled but otherwise edible) candy, which they buy from a factory by the truckload. If I recall, sometimes the flavor can actually leech into the milk.

      Moral of the story is: Caffine might not have any effect on sharks, or only for some species of shark, or it might be toxic. Who knows?
      =Smidge=
      • Obviously, different organisms have different tolerances and reactions to various chemicals. However, some are quite universal. Certain neurotransmitters have vital roles in life functions all the way back to the earliest mammals and, in some cases, even single-celled organisms. Thus, it is not impossible for one chemical to have similar effects for an entire taxonomic branch of life.

        I would tend to think it unlikely in sharks, however, since they are quite pointedly different organisms from even mammal
        • As one other comment on other animals consuming chemicals, i do know from experience that when earthworms eat coffee grounds, they tend to be firmer and more active. I presume that this is as a result from the caffiene, but i don't really know.

          This is a great trick when going fishing that my grandpa taught me - dig up worms, put them in dirt mixed w/ coffee grounds. . . mmmmm.

      • Re:Speaking for myself (Score:5, Interesting)

        by dasunt ( 249686 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @08:42AM (#7576741)

        The parent poster writes:
        Every species reacts to chemicals in different ways.

        And then he goes on to talk about chocolate as an example.

        Here's a better example, IMHO: Spiders on Caffiene and Other Drugs [coffee.co.uk]

        • Is that the web on the "marijuana" spider is probably closest to the original "untained" form, yet caffeine is the worst.

          Wonder what it says for the war on drugs when caffeine is legal.

      • Re:Speaking for myself (Score:4, Informative)

        by Alomex ( 148003 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @11:12AM (#7577358) Homepage
        and macadamia nuts.

        In fact, macademia nuts are generally poisonous to humans as well. Every so often a mutated macademia tree produces non-poisonous nuts and those are the ones we groom and harvest from. (I'm not making this up).

    • But with this addition to the water [dfw.com], the sharks will be quite serene and happy, and lose that 'sharky edge'.

    • Re:Speaking for myself (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dacarr ( 562277 )
      I don't think the caffeine will affect the sharks that drastically. Speaking from personal experience, after a while, caffeine will lose its stimulant effects to the extent that you will go to sleep no matter how much caffeine is coursing through your blood.
    • How often can you say that [jumpingtheshark.com] about a Slashdot article?

    • Next thing you know companies will discover that caffeinated sharks will work for meat and start outsourcing their software to the oceans.
    • Now, if caffiene levels in the ocean rise, what's going to happen to the sharks? Are they going to ever be able to get any sleep?

      Being equipped with gills...which require constant water flow...sharks can't sleep, at least not except for in very specific locations. Researchers have found they will seek out a spot in the ocean where the tide or currents create a constant water flow in a protected area(ie, under a reef, cave, etc) and they'll then enter what appears to be a sleeping state...usually with sev

    • First Exxon Valdez, now Juan Valdez. I'm starting to see a pattern. The corporate world couldn't make em dependent on oil, so lets make em addicts. Bilking our sealife of their very last sand dollar. Where will the greed end. We need to tax Startbucks to fund detox centers for our aquatic friends. I just ask that they ween them off gradually, lest and octopi snarfs my Bunn-O-Matic while I am off snorkling.

  • Dude, dude, that's the wrong project (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @11:35PM (#7575085)
    Researchers at the Norwegian Institute for Air Research have spent three years looking for trace remains of pharmaceuticals in drainage water and the sea...

    And now where the hell did the taxpayer kronas that I spent on air research go?

  • DON'T TRY IT (Score:5, Funny)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @11:37PM (#7575093)
    Need a lift in the morning? Have a refreshing glass of seawater!

    Despite what DarkHand says, THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Please DO NOT try this. The high concentrations of sea salt and other dissolved minerals destroy the benefits found in drinking ordinary water, making the drinker at risk of salt poisoning and even dehydration!

    I can't believe the editors are allowing such dangerous advice to be posted on Slashdot, of all placed!

    • Re:DON'T TRY IT (Score:4, Funny)

      by Molina the Bofh ( 99621 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @12:22AM (#7575241) Homepage
      Or, even worse, the high concentrations of sea salt and other dissolved minerals might destroy the effects of caffeine.
    • Hey, you're ruining a good thing for the environment. if some computer geeks drink seawater & croak the caffeine levels in the ocean will drop
    • I can't believe the editors are allowing such dangerous advice to be posted on Slashdot, of all placed!
      Dangerous advice is exactly what the population needs. Can't keep bettering our species without natural selection, can we?
      Bad advice is natures way to select against stupidity. Anyone stupid enough to drink sea water, should receive (if still alive, that is) a free educational trip to where the sewer meets the sea.
    • A single glass of seawater isn't dangerous. (Usual disclaimer: assuming you're an adult, in reasonable good health, the seawater is unpolluted, etc.)

      It may not be a great idea because it tastes lousy, it will indeed dehydrate you and make you thirsty, and the magnesium ions in it, in addition to giving it that bitter taste, have the same effect as milk of magnesia.

      Certain kinds of health faddists have been drinking seawater for years.

      Obviously, dirty seawater from a harbor or near a sewage outflow will
    • What I don't understand is, why does seawater lead to dehydration (due to salt content) when you often have to ingest salt in certain desert areas to prevent it?

      Anyone got input on this?

      Oh, and if anything speeds dehydration it's caffeine, a cup of coffee will leave you more dry than refreshed in the long run.
    • THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Please DO NOT try this.

      And those slashdotters who are so spectacularly stupid as to try drinking seawater will quickly discover that it tastes utterly vile, and will likely never drink it again.

      But thanks for the warning anyway.

  • No no no! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Don't drink seawater! It's bad for you. I'm surprised Slashdot has stooped to such irresponsible journalism.

  • It's just not fair... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by skaffen42 ( 579313 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @12:15AM (#7575222)
    Those damn Scandinavians have everything. I mean I have just finished reading the story about the Swedish chick who managed to solve (part of) Hilbert's 16th problem. And amazingly for a female math geek she is actually not bad looking. If she was from any other part of the world she would have looked like my grandfather, only uglier.

    And now the Norwegians get CAFFEINATED SEAWATER! Is is just me or is there something wrong with this picture?

    OK, so at least they are sharing Linus with the rest of us, but still...

  • I wonder if this has anything to do with this, Pilot Whales Beached in Tasmania [icnetwork.co.uk].
    Too much caffine explains why they get so disoriented.
  • Perhaps some home experiments involving a goldfish and a pack of proplus are in order? Anyone with a goldfish who tries this out please post your results.
  • While the amounts reported are below the current safety thresholds -
    caffeine easily passes from mother to unborn child [nih.gov] -
    there is also increasing concern about environmental estrogens or chemicals that may react with them.

  • The next step (Score:4, Funny)

    by kinnell ( 607819 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @08:06AM (#7576633)
    Now we just have to find a way of extracting it, and Europe will no longer be at the mercy of the coffee growing countries

  • Not Necessarily a Direct Problem (Score:4, Informative)

    by bubblewrapgrl ( 189933 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @03:17PM (#7578422)
    One researcher in the article is quoted as saying, We have almost no information about what kind of problems caffeine can cause in nature. It is a poison and at very high concentrations it can affect the nervous system. We don't know the kind of environmental effect caffeine can have on the ecosystem and this is something that should be thoroughly investigated .

    Based on what I know about biochemistry, this isn't necessarily going to be a big problem for humans. Assuming that the concentration of seawater is 100 micrograms (.0001 g) per liter and the lethal dose (LD) of caffeine is 4 grams in humans, one human would have to drink 40,000 litres of seawater to reach the lethal dose. That excludes the decomposition of caffeine in the body that would occur while drinking that much seawater.

    Of course, there could be problems with biomagnification. If fish or other sea animals can't break down the caffeine, it may stay absorbed in their fat. Then, people who eat those sea creatures will have much larger of doses of caffeine at one time.

    Personally, I wouldn't be concerned until they take into consideration all of the other factors that are involved. There are high concentrations of many molecules in seawater, but that isn't necessarily a problem.
  • Ahh...got my stop words list..! ;)

  • And, yes, sea organisms ARE sensitive to caffeine. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Friday November 28, 2003 @06:13AM (#7581219) Homepage
    And just in case anyone is wondering whether any marine organisms are actually sensitive to caffeine...

    "Responses of regular urchins to mechanical and chemical stimulation have been described by... von Uexkull (1896a, 1896b, 1900a). According to von Uexkull, caffein is a particularly effective chemical agent and evokes pointing away of the spines in all concentrations." (L. H. Hyman, The Invertebrates: Echinodermata, 1955, pp. 552-3).

    Just a data point, but I think it's particularly interesting that even these invertebrates, whose physiology is very different from humans, are sensitive to caffeine.
  • The number of drugs that were coming from the local mental hospital. Either people are flushing there meds a lot or well I don't know.

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