Traffic Light Switcher Makes Critics See Red 600
An anonymous reader writes "According to a Yahoo/Washington Post article: 'It sounds like a suffering commuter's dream come true: a dashboard device that changes red traffic lights to green at the touch of a button.
Police, fire and rescue vehicles have had access to such equipment for years, but now the devices are becoming available to ordinary motorists
thanks to advances in technology and a little help from the Internet. Safety advocates are outraged, and news accounts in Michigan last week
led to politicians there seeking a ban on the gadgets'." Update: 11/06 02:25 GMT by S : A previous Slashdot story mentions the device, though not the Michigan legislature's subsequent ire.
Chrome box (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Chrome box (Score:2)
ER
I Wish... (Score:3, Funny)
Gee... I wish I had a similar device for "See it early" Slashdot post... ;P
Re:I Wish... (Score:2)
Can someone tell me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:3, Funny)
What if you're receding, so your IR looks like RF? There must be an inertial reference frame where this device becomes illegal.
This reminds me of a physics problem that is in every physics book in the chapter about relativity and doppler shifts. A motorist is speeding towards a traffic light and runs a red. In traffic court he claims that the red light appeared green to him because of the great speed with which he approached it. The judge fines him one dollar pe
Re:Unlike England (Score:3, Insightful)
The Radiocommunications Agency (RA) owns the radio frequency spectrum in the UK. Its an agency of the Department of Trade and Industry.
The government has no control over the usage of infrared communications.
The "British Post Office" has nothing whatsoever to do with telecommunications in England, Scotland, or anywhere else. It did many years ago, before its telecoms and mail services were split up and privatized
Also - can you provide a reference for this laser broadcast technolo
This is completely absurd (Score:3, Insightful)
First of all, the Post Office in the UK has had nothing to do with regulating e/m waves of any frequency since 1969.
Secondly, the BBC has not had a monopoly on broadcast radio in the UK since 1972. There are many more commercial, privately-owned stations than BBC stations across the country.
Thirdly, radio transmission by shining an infra-red vertically upwards? Hello? Moderators, are you smoking crack. Here's a few
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:5, Funny)
X-ray googles have however never been created, and their usage to see through clothing to see naked skin is utturly rediculous, yet they are still illegal. I don't know if this law is still valid, however I doubt if it has been overturned. This is an example however of a technology that never was legal.
Re:Can someone tell me... (Score:4, Informative)
You've obviously never seen This [xrayhunter.com] site or ones like it dedicated to the Sony camcorders with Nightshot and their ability to see through thin clothing. Of course it uses near infrared instead of xrays but the same principal.
WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR WORK (Score:3, Informative)
If you want one (Score:4, Informative)
300$ ?!?!? (Score:2)
Re:300$ ?!?!? (Score:5, Funny)
When I'm GETTING AWAY from a fire!
Re:300$ ?!?!? (Score:2)
Re:300$ ?!?!? (Score:2)
Democratic intersections? (Score:3, Interesting)
Couldn't the opposite be true? Maybe the light would stay green longer for whichever side had more traffic? Ideally it could create "democratic" intersections and reduce the amount of time you spend stopped with no traffic going the other way. I'm sure it wouldn't actually work, but wouldn't it be cool if it did?
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:5, Interesting)
The best roads made are ones done by expert traffic engineers.. In the city I live near, there's 9 stop lights in a 3 lane (one way) road. The posted speed is 25MPH. However, if you go 22.5MPH, every one of them will be green,. Usualy there's an idiot or 2 that burns rubber out of one intersection, while I barely cruise up. By the time I hit the next stoplight, it's already changed.
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:2)
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:2)
Trust me - as an American - some forms of democratic control just don't work.
Already done. (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes you can see where they were embedded in the road, especially if the light was retrofitted. Look for a patched-over hole in the pavement directly underneath where the first car would pull up at a stop light.
That is why some lights only change when your car is sitting there. For additional fun, you might be caught behind some dingus who, for some reason, stopped too far back to trigger the sensor. You're going to be there a while.
Re:Democratic intersections? (Score:5, Informative)
flash demo (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly this is illegal (or soon will be) and stupid waste of the public's time and money to refit this lights to stop this silly company. FAC of America located out of Minn. runs websites such as TheMIRT [themirt.com] and Guns'N Stuff [gunsnstuff.net] The are allowing people to be resellers for $300/unit.
There is a flash "demo" of the MIRT in action here [themirt.com]
Solution is to have every car installed.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
Intrusive and over-complicated (Score:3, Informative)
in the most of Europe, is to embed sensors in a form of loops of wire
into the road on each side of the intersection. The loop can sense [howstuffworks.com]
the car directly above it, which allows streetlight controller to learn
the length of the line-up on every side and switch the lights accordingly.
Simple design rules
dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are these the same detectors discussed in the article?
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, with the availability of technologies like bluetooth and other encrypted wireless technologies, it shouldn't be hard to just encode a daily/weekly-changing code into the signals and give it out to emergency vehicles as needed.
That, and teaching drivers how to behave around those flashing lights (ie. pull over to the RIGHT if you are in the US - I've seen too many people on the freeway pull left, only to block an ambulance that was trying to get around traffic by driving on the shoulder).
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm actually sitting at the fire station tonight pulling a duty shift for the volunteer squad.
You have NO idea how much it would save in time and safety concerns if everyone would pull to the RIGHT (in the US). G
lad to know there's at least one person out there who gets it!
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:2)
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:2)
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:4, Interesting)
Look for extremely intense and brief flashes in the IR region at a specific frequency (or more than one frequency.
Strobe lights emit very intense, very brief flashes of light which are loaded with IR. Their controllers flash them at the correct frequency.
The detectors also take into account reflections and other problems which might cause the detector to misread a signal.
The reason why this was never really a problem before is that strobe lights are illegal on cars - it turn them into emergency response vehicles, and is against the regulations that concern lights on cars. Further, they are very visible, and can be caught relatively easily. An IR filter over the strobe would reduce this problem, but it would be absorbing so much energy it would get too hot to handle (solvable problem). Lastly the detectors require a very exact frequency, which requires more than a generic radioshack strobe controller. - suffice to say they were not easy for an average joe to build and use.
With the relatively recent advent of high power, cheap IR LEDs this is now possible for the average joe. The LEDs are still fairly expensive for the power required, but certianly not out of reach. The companies selling these things are making a huge bundle of money, though. $300 for probably less than $20 worth of parts and labor.
It's an issue that will likely take a technological and hands-on solution. Many installed detectors are already capable of being used with more complex transmitters, they just haven't enabled that feature. Probably can't even find the manual.
-Adam
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:2)
Where do you live? I think I'd like to move out there. Here in the eastern US, I regularly see strobe lights on school buses, construction vehicles, electric utility vehicles, concrete trucks, even some bicycles.
I hate them! The bright white flashflashflash...............flashflashflash of those things
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:2)
There were 2 strobe lights on the vehicle, and each would flash twice in a 1 second cycle. (I remember from the stopwatch that it was EXACTLY 1 second, down to the hundredth of a second). It wasn't a steady rate of flashes... Kinda like the below diagram (L=left strobe, R=right strobe)
L..L......R..R......
I can't imagine why the modern devices would cost more than $300
Re:dont some use strobe detectors? (Score:3, Interesting)
holy crap! (Score:2)
I think taking an extra five minutes to get around is better than dishing out 300 bucks!
Bad, bad bad! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the radar/laser detectors are fine, but the devices which allow people to actually change the system should not be allowed.
Radar/Laser detectors serve a good purpose. Yes, they allow people to "undermine" the law by getting around traffic tickets (if you're alert,) but they also slow down traffic when an officer is nearby. The people with the radar detectors slow down when an officer is running radar nearby, and therefore drive safer because they don't want a ticket.
However, devices like the ones coming now actually affect the system rather than circumvent it. My having a radar detector does not affecy anyone but me. But one that allows me to change traffic lights in my favor affects the other people on the road!
This is all IMHO.
Don't FIX the vulnerability - just BAN exploits! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Don't FIX the vulnerability - just BAN exploits (Score:3, Insightful)
You're right. In fact, I'm going to take your prinicle to heart and exploit the weakness in the locks of your residence. Since you clearly believe that if the lock isn't adequate then the laws shouldn't take eff
Re:Don't FIX the vulnerability - just BAN exploits (Score:2)
As long as you don't subsequently enter the residence. Remember, it's illegal to enter even if the door was already open (although I've never heard of it being illegal simply to pick the lock or test the doorknob). But barring unsafe conditions, it isn't illegal to ent
Thats rediculous (Score:4, Insightful)
If the government tells you you can't use one of those, its real simple, don't use them. Use it and suffer the penalty!
Why the hell should the taxpayers shoulder the massive costs of building a device like that which would be completely immune to misuse? Does it add $1000 per? $10000 per? How much per emergency vehicle? In a town of ten or twenty thousand people with, say, 30 lights, you want the town to give up a teacher or ten because you've got some high and mighty belief that if people CAN do something they SHOULD?
Thats not Score:4 Insightful, it should be Score:0 Retarded.
its likely untrue ... I hope (Score:2, Interesting)
I know it's a dup but... (Score:4, Insightful)
While these politicians are at it, why not mandate fuel governors for all cars to prevent them from speeding?
Why not mandate RFID for everyone so that the police can tell where you are when you're a suspect in a crime?
I can understand making people responsible for using such a device, but banning them won't do any more good than those states that banned radar detectors.
LK
Re:I know it's a dup but... (Score:2, Insightful)
What they should have done was come up with an inexpensive radar simulator device. It wouldn't be hard, and it would be something that cost maybe $10 to produce in quantity.
Then the police could distribute them all around the streets and highways. They would be little black boxes and easy to conceal.
They would emit a signal that mimics a police radar. They would cause people who have radar detectors to slow down.
Since they'd probably be even che
Re:I know it's a dup but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It all comes down to morals and concious. This is not some debacle about copyright, this is about abusing something that actually serves a good purpose for everyone (when have you heard someone complain about the purpose, the purpose not the actual function, of the stop light?). It's bizarre that some people could use this and actually feel good about it.
Simple solution... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Simple solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Try the millions of teens who watch 'Jackass' all day.
Re:Simple solution... (Score:3, Informative)
As you know, them being at the front of the line means they wouldn't need to trip the light... they just need to put the flashers on, wait for traffic to stop, and go.
Re:Simple solution... (Score:2)
The best option is to buy the equipment which allows codes to be changed at will (since most lights have a central link anyway) and cars which can similarily be updated at will. It is currently too difficult to take a snapshot of an emergency beacon and distribute it to other exploiter's quickly enough to be useful if codes could be changed weekly. When it does become bad, change t
Re:Simple solution... (Score:2)
The best option is to buy the equipment which allows codes to be changed at will (since most lights have a central link anyway) and cars which can similarily be updated at will.
Why not just make it illegal to use the damn things? It's not like traffic lights stop traffic from passing through an intersection, they just determine who is legally allowed to pass through the intersection.
Re:Simple solution... (Score:2)
I'm all for hackin', but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not amusing. It's just wrong.
Re:I'm all for hackin', but... (Score:4, Funny)
(This post brought to you by the RIAA, the MPAA, Enron, and your friendly neighborhood cable TV monopoly.)
solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Phrack did it first (Score:3, Interesting)
Before I ever read it on slashdot, my friends and I were hacking traffic lights thanks to phrack. It used to take me 25 minutes to get to work, but now it only takes 15 :P
It also tells you how to get into the main traffic light control system, though you have to go through a bunch of backdoors into a VAX system. Imagine if Al-Qaeda managed to do that, though...
http://www.phrack.org/phrack/60/p60-0x0e.txt [phrack.com]
Re:Phrack did it first (Score:2)
System has two channels (different IR freq?) each channel has 10 vehicle classes which each allow 1000 unique vehicle IDs. I like the comment about
Better Alternative to Corporate Solutions? (Score:2)
The devices sold on the websites listed in other's commen
Sorry, but this is BS (Score:5, Interesting)
As the article states, most cities and counties use the Opticon system by 3M. This system has two components, an encoded flash reciever, and a radio reciever. In order to pre-empt the light, you had to have a valid encoded flasher, and the encoded radio signal. There is no nation-wide standard for the pre-emting devices, so each locality sets up its own code. Good luck trying to us one of these black boxes to trip signals, it won't work 99.99% of the time.
I worked on the traffic signal system in a central california town, and we had 3 different codes: 1 for fire/police, 1 for ambulances, and one for maintenance work. Each time a signal was pre-empted, it was logged at the signal control center downtown. I worked with a guy who had a maintenance encoded flasher on his truck. It was kinda fun cruising through town, never hitting a green, but we didn't do it very often.
I think the black boxes they are selling are just for people dumb enough to think they work.
Re:Sorry, but this is BS (Score:3, Insightful)
It might be more of a real problem in some local areas. At least in the part of Maryland I'm in (and according to the printed newspaper article), a number of the intersections do switch based on this device. While there are competing systems, apparently some of them have no authentication mechanism. The detector is essentially like a remote control for the television -- blink in the right way and it trips.
While
Re:Sorry, but this is BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Laws won't work (Score:2, Insightful)
Sounds like the childs game RED light GREEN light (Score:2)
Legal morass (Score:2)
Nothing new... (Score:2)
I had an interesting childhood...
Why not just upgrade to RFID on emergency vehicles (Score:2, Insightful)
Surely some sort of RFID tag could be fitted to emergency vehicles that would allow for traffic signal control without extraordinary costs. Retrofitting this new technology to the pre-existing traffic intersection control probably wouldn't be too hard either.
Additionally this technology could be used to inform regular vehicles that there is an emergency vehicle in the area. (Provide
We've had them (Score:2)
Luddites' solution (Score:2)
Keep Loons Off Roads, Don't Empower Them (Score:2)
The last thing anyone on the roads needs is loons who can twiddle the stoplights. If someone ever hits me after using one of those things, they'd better get their lawyers lined up.
Ban 'em and change stoplights so they don't work.
Chrome Box (n) (Score:2)
A portable self-contained device to manipulate Traffic Signals.
Not a phreak box.
Created by Remote Control
Date: June, 14 1988
2.
Old hat.
Nationwide usage/distribution ban (Score:4, Informative)
These things are no joke and I hope this bill gets through.
This reminds me of a plan... (Score:5, Interesting)
It goes like this:
1) Fire department installs special racks atop their fire engines. Fire department allows qualified paintball players who pay a fee (say, $100/mo. for unlimited rides) to ride along in these racks.
2) As the engines go zooming through the city, a bottleneck appears. It seems some assmunch of a driver is refusing to get out of the way for fear of losing his precious spot in the mad dash to get to the freeway.
3) Traffic Decency Guardians (aka TDGs) unleash a hail of accurate paintball fire at the offending motorist. The paintballs are colored bright purple, or perhaps a mixture of purple and orange. They are not water-soluble. They do mark said motorist as a complete assmunch, so other motorists are sure to treat the offender accordingly.
4) Violations of right-of-way rules plummet. Paintballers everywhere compete for selection as TDGs. The fire department finally has enough money to get that extra ladder they've always needed. Everyone wins.
Except the guy with purple paint all over his car. ;-)
I don't think these are that foolish (Score:3, Insightful)
The next section is something called the pre-emptive right of way, where the traffic lights that are not the same path as the signal is coming from, get a red light. The reason for this, is so in case the vehicle can make a left turn without worrying about oncoming traffic.
The system works in two parts--one's a transmitter, the other's an receiver, and the system can be set for thousands of possible codes. (for vehicle identification). the odds of something like this working, right out of the box, is very small...you'd need to get a correct code, and hope that no one notices a lot of new entries when it logs.
There is a comapny that makes legitimate Opticom receivers, for 'testing' purposes...however, their testing eqipment is very limited. They do make handheld opticom transmitters, however, they'll only sell them to you if you're a law enforcement/governmnet agency.
The real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Easier solution (Score:5, Funny)
I can turn red traffic lights green just by staring at them. The time required varies a bit from light to light, but eventually they all bend to my whim and turn from red to green.
Interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
Naturally, middle-management, in their rush to control everything and to expect their highly qualified and exhaustively interviewed employees to become irresponsible morons the moment they have left the room, will claim telecommuting cannot ever be approved and go on to schedule another meeting.
Overview (Score:4, Informative)
The normal operation of any traffic signal controlled intersection is designed for the maximum and efficient throughput of vehicular traffic.
Unfortunately, a common occurrence at any intersection is traffic back-up, which can require many signaling cycles to clear. Without the ability to change the operation of the traffic signals themselves, police and emergency response vehicles can also be forced to sit in traffic, thus dramatically increasing their response times to crime scenes and fire or medical emergencies.
Furthermore, even without heavy traffic, a police or emergency response vehicle entering a traffic signal controlled intersection at a high rate of speed places all motorists (and sometimes pedestrians) at extreme risk.
The MIRT is an optical communications system that allows equipped vehicles to alter the normal operation of traffic signals.
An overview of a typical scenario is as follows:
A fire truck is dispatched to an emergency.
The fire truck is equipped with multiple emergency warning lights and a siren... The fire truck is also equipped with a preemption transmitter, which, in operation, is a high intensity forward-facing strobe light that is flashing at a rapid rate - much faster than normal attention-getting lights on the fire truck.
When the fire truck approaches within 1,800 feet (line-of-sight) of a preemption-equipped traffic signal controlled intersection, the preemption detector (normally mounted on the cross-arm that suspends the traffic signal) "sees" the fire truck's preemption transmitter and locks onto its flashing strobe.
Once the traffic signal "sees" the fire truck, it begins to initiate a "preemption sequence" of the actual traffic signal that is different from normal operation.
If the fire truck already has a green light, the light will remain green. Any other direction that also has a green light (usually the opposite direction) will first get a yellow light, then red.
When all of the other directions are then red, and the fire truck's direction is the only one that is green, the left turn arrow will illuminate (if one exists), and a brilliant white flood lamp mounted near the traffic signal will begin to flash. This flood lamp tells the driver of the fire truck that he now has control of the intersection, and complete right-of-way.
If the fire truck has a red light, any other direction that has a green light will transition to yellow, then red. When all the directions (including the fire truck's) are red, the traffic signal facing the fire truck will then turn green, along with the left turn arrow (if one exists), and the brilliant white flood lamp will begin to flash.
Once the fire truck has passed through the intersection, optical communication with the preemption detector (on the traffic signal) is lost. At that time the traffic signal will default back to normal operation. Conversely, until the fire truck passes through the intersection, it will have a green light, regardless of the time duration.
If several intersections are within the 1,800 foot range of the fire truck's preemption transmitter, they will all respond accordingly to the above operational description.
Geek 1 and geek 2 drive to lunch (Score:3, Funny)
Another few blocks, and another intersection and another red light and through they go....geek 2 remains quiet, but he's backing up his laptop to his home server, just in case.
Next intersection and this time, the light is green....geek 1 stops. Geek 2 does a double take at the green light and asks geek 1 what he's doing "Why are you stopping?", to which geek 1 replies "Are you kidding? I'm not blowing this intersection on the green....my brother might be coming through here!"
EASY TO CATCH! Beware! (Score:3, Interesting)
At many of these intersections are video camera. They can record for a variety of purposes including accidents and even ticketing. But have you ever recorded yourself with a video camera and used an infrared remote? Did you know the light from the remote is very well displayed to the camera? IT IS!! Looks like a blinking strobe! CCDs pick up light differently than the human eye, so even though we can't see it as people, the watching video cameras can potentially see you!
The device may not be illegal, but using it might be! I'd recommend against it strongly.
Re:I want one! (Score:2)
A better question: Where can I get one before everyone else does. As long as you're the only one with the device, it will probably be useful. What happens whtn you and another "ambulence" are heading towards the same intersection? What happens when 20 people coming from all different directions have the device?
Chaos anyone?
Re:I want one! (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda like sitting in the middle of an intersection on a red. Sure, you were 20 feet ahead of those behind you but the only reason you're stuck in the intersection is the guy 3 blocks up blocking your route.
It's tough, but if everyone cleaned up their driving habits, everyone would be home 5 or 10 minutes earlier rather than just the poor drivers getting home 2 to 3 minutes earlier.
Re:I want one! (Score:2)
Re:I want one! (Score:2)
Re:I want one! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I want one! (Score:2)
Re:I want one! (Score:5, Interesting)
\begin{game theoretic rambling}
This is a classic example of prisoner's dilemma, where individual welfare is pitted against the common good. Either way, a driver is better off if he acts greedily: If most drivers cooperate with each other, then the greedy driver takes advantage and gets home before the cooperating drivers. If almost nobody cooperates, then one must be a greedy driver, or be taken advantage of.
The big question here is what should a driver do to make commuting the least painful, and there's no simple answer. There are many possible strategies:
1. Always be greedy -- that way you're never the sucker.
2. Never be greedy (Golden Rule) -- that way you're looking out for the common good, and if most other people do the same, then the relatively few greedy jerks out there won't cause too much trouble.
3. Only be greedy in retaliation to another's greed (tit for tat) -- can work well, but can lead to feuds of reciprocal retaliation between two parties.
What will work best? Who knows? Many studies have been done on this with two-player games, with tit-for-tat being the clear winner. Traffic, of course is a multiplayer game, so who knows? My guess is that it would depend on the current traffic conditions -- if you're driving with a bunch of jerks, you have to be a bit greedy, otherwise, go with strategy (2).
\end{game theoretic rambling}
Re:I want one! (Score:2, Informative)
ILLEGAL???? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Is this a dupe? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is happening a lot in my city (Score:2)
On the more serious side, these devices pose a real public safety hazard and their sale should be restricted. However, I think that the company selling these devi
Re:Make all lights go red (Score:3, Informative)
Working around the problem -- that people are impersonating emergency vehicles and therefore causing havoc -- by destroying the usefulness of the devices is the wrong way of handling this.
Re:Make all lights go red (Score:2)
What problem does that solve? Someone can still use the device and then go through the red light. But this is illegal, you say? So is using the device if you're not an emergency vehicle. And don't tell me the cop isn't going to notice the light suddenly changing (and the emergency flashing light at the top coming on).
Making all lights go red solves nothing, and defeats the purpose of having the device in the first place.
Re:Unique Emergency vehicle flashing pattern (Score:5, Insightful)
They could however instead flash red and yellow alternately and quickly so that it would mean EXACTLY and ONLY that an emergency vehicle is approaching and ALL ways need to stop to give it right of way.
Gridlock isn't dependent on the traffic lights (remembering various stories about New York where the fire engines were in the middle of a block and it would take 30 minutes to go just over a mile.