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Evaporation Prevention Using Molecular Blankets 223
Makarand writes "According to this article in the
New Scientist, a Canadian company is testing a
technology to reduce water evaporation from reservoirs by
spreading an ultra-thin blanket of organic molecules on the surface to block the escape
of water molecules into the air.
Trials conducted in India and Morocco showed between 30 and 45 per cent reduction in evaporation
using this method. However,
the long term ecological effects of reducing evaporation in lakes or reservoirs is not yet clear
as evaporation prevention can increase water temperatures and affect the exchange rates of gases
such as oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide."
Algae population ? (Score:3, Interesting)
won't this increase the algae population ?
the problem with water is distribution not evaporation
interesting (Score:2)
I rally shouldn't post after reading PA.
Re:interesting (Score:2, Troll)
Am I the only one to see this from the other side?
Conversation 50 years ago:
Scientist1 : Nice theory, that uranium fusion and plutonium fission, but where could we possibly test it?
Scientist2 : I dunno, somewhere real far away.
S1 : Japan?
S2 : Hmm it could get ugly if it works
S1 : Bah, I say we go for it.
Conversation Today
S1 : Nice theory, spreading a thin layer of carbon tetrachloride over a lake to keep water from evaporating. What could go wrong?
S2 : Umm I dunno, that's a pretty delicate ec
Great, the next "The Core" (Score:3, Funny)
Hey... (Score:5, Funny)
High tech or reprocessing bulk/waste chemicals (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Hey... (Score:2)
oil spill,
Actually, we kind of want some evaporation from salt water, where the oil supertankers ply.
It's the fresh water we want to keep around.
Just pour oil/petroleum in the lake (Score:3, Insightful)
same result, you get a nice film on the surface and damages the local ecology plus you can get it from your local gas station
how about spending money on better infrastructure or de-salination plants first ? then you wouldnt need to stop evaporation, remember 80% of the globe is covered with H2O so evaporation is not the problem
Re:Just pour oil/petroleum in the lake (Score:2)
Except that heavy hydrocarbons aren't something you want to drink (or breathe, for that matter). Or would you mind of I add a little 92 octane to your drinking water? The idea of this film is to prevent evaporation and only evaporation, with negligible effects on the human body upon ingestion and (as a secondary goal) having as small a footprint on the local ecosystem as possibl
Re:Just pour oil/petroleum in the lake (Score:2)
yes I'm sure this is really going to help the rainfall in morocco which is already critically low.
I'd just like to know (Score:1)
Re:I'd just like to know (Score:2)
Re:I'd just like to know (Score:3, Interesting)
-cp-
Re:I'd just like to know (Score:2)
Weather too (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget possible changes to the weather. For instance, there are a number of areas whose climate and micro-climate are influenced by nearby bodies of water.
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Cleary I just pulled that out of my ass, but it makes at least a little sense
Re:Weather too (Score:1)
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Re:Weather too (Score:3, Insightful)
A big part of evaporation is surface area. The more surface area exposed to the sun and heat, the greater amount of water you will have leaving the system.
In fact, slowing a river down doesn't help this either, as there is no water to replenish what evaporates. Perfect examples of this are: Mono Lake, Owens Lake, and the Aral Sea.
Re:Weather too (Score:4, Interesting)
Were you envisioning covering the Great Lakes with this stuff?
I'd be willing to test the product in my toilet based on the assumption that it'd reduce the atomized crap on my toothbrush due to flushing. [straightdope.com]
Re:Weather too (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, as long as its your crap or someone close to you (family) it shouldn't matter that much in most cases.
Coz either the germs are yours or you're going to get them from other routes anyway. e.g. if you and your family are healthy, then small amount of aerosolized germs are unlikely to kill you - your immune systems already know how to deal with em. However your germs may kill/sicken strangers, and theirs might do the same to you.
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Bleaching one's bathroom and kitchen probably does more harm than good.
Related note: use of antibiotics in childhood have now been confirmed as a cause of allergies and asthma in later life. We actually _need_ exposure to those bugs if we're to remain healthy.
The toilet aerosol and
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Re:Weather too (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Weather too (Score:2)
Swimming pools too (Score:2)
If this prevents evaporation, does it also increase the surface tension of the water? That could make diving into a treated lake a painful proposition.
Re:Swimming pools too (Score:1, Informative)
eg
http://www.adirect-energy-source.com/pool/poolc
and http://www.flexiblesolutions.com/products/heatsav
Re:Swimming pools too (Score:2, Informative)
Water with its strong tendency to hydrogen bond has a greater surface tension than that of an eight carbon simple alcohol. These alcohols form monolayers by hydrogen bonding with the water molecules. The hydrophobicity of their carbon chained tails creates an excess surface concentration, which at a great enough concentration forms a monolayer.
Re:Swimming pools too (Score:2)
I haven't tried it myself yet, well my dad hasn't, he's the pool owner *grins*
This should be fun (Score:3, Insightful)
Then wait until someone pours a cup of this into the oceans.
Then wait when it stops raining and we all die.
YAY
Re:This should be fun (Score:2)
Re:This should be fun (Score:2)
Re:This should be fun (Score:2, Informative)
Then wait until someone pours a cup of this into the oceans.
Then wait when it stops raining and we all die.
J.G. Ballard wrote a (fictional) book about this.
It is called 'The Drought'.
It is not a happy book.
Re:This should be fun (Score:2)
Is this Really New?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is this Really New?? (Score:2)
doesn't this happen naturally? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would think that if water cant get out kinetically then air and nitrogen cant get in. so you can kiss all fish and algea goodbye.
Re:doesn't this happen naturally? (Score:2)
Either you've never left New Jersey, or you're living on a different planet to the rest of us. Possibly both.
Re:doesn't this happen naturally? (Score:2)
were talking about passive systems here, not gills which actively transport disolved gasses but keep LIQUID phase water out (not gas phase water).
the system under discussion is a two-molecule layer. h20 and o2 and c02 gas molecules are all about the same size. The h20 molecules are present in concentration thousands of times hire than the air. it would take an ubnelievable amount of discrimination to keep
other uses (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:other uses (Score:2)
Need more research (Score:5, Insightful)
This seems like a pretty critical area of the research. If the water becomes stagnant and full of algae or dead fish, what good is it?
This could have unforeseen effects on the local ecosystem.
Unforseen? Maybe if you have your eyes and ears taped shut? Forgive me for being cynical, but it seems so many scientists are out for a little fame and don't see the big pictures.
Re:Need more research (Score:1)
Oh, you just aerate.
The federal contracts will be worth billions.
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
Interesting. Granted, it seems that aeration would decrease the effectiveness of the solution, since the air bubbles would create areas where there is no protective film. Is that not so?
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
I would distrust a project more, if it listed only positive effects, rather than positive and possible negative. Now that is cynicism.
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
Re:Need more research (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, I have to ask this. Working in biotech as I do, I deal with scientists on a daily basis. (I'd like to call myself one, but honesty won't allow me to do so until I get my PhD.) In my experience, they're human like anyone else -- and like anyone else, of course they'd prefer to be right than wrong; but the nature of the profession is that it ultimately rewards those who check their data carefully and accurately forecast the consequences of their actions, and punishes those who don't.
The idea that scientists are egotists who refuse to acknowledge their failings is a vile stereotype, with no more basis in fact than the idea that they're cold and unfeeling, or sexless geeks, or unable to appreciate art and culture, or
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
What company do you work for? It's quite possible that I've used some of your analyzers. I'll let you know if they don't work.
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
Re:Need more research (Score:2)
It's not scientists. It's companies that seek to capitalize on the fruits of science that you're looking to blame. Real scientists seek to understand the big picture. Companies look for new ways to make money.
Can anyone say "Breaking the Cycle"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Can anyone say "Breaking the Cycle"? (Score:2, Interesting)
Ever wonder why your local weather forecaster is wrong so often? Why he can't predict weather any further out that 3 days with better luck than my dog? Their climatological models ignore all the small stuff-like evaporation from small lakes--that end up having a distinct influence on climate, due to the nonlinearity of processes like evaporation and condensation.
This is one of
Re:Can anyone say "Breaking the Cycle"? (Score:2)
So if the edges of a rainforest can't survive without protection, how did the edges of the rainforest survi
You say Molecular Blankets (Score:2)
this is a BAD idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:2)
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:2)
Generally, rain clouds develop from humid air, not because they happen to be over lakes. So reducing the evaporation from reservoirs or lakes by 45% won't necessarily change weather patterns. Even lake effect snow storms (found in cities next to the Great Lakes and the Great Salt Lake) should be ok, since I believe its the warm air of the lakes, and
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Decreasing the evaporation would bring things more in line with the "natural" state of the area.
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:1)
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:2)
Take the size of the worlds oceans.
Which is bigger
Re:this is a BAD idea (Score:2)
This might have a small effect on very local weather, but it might have a big effect on anything living in the resorvoir due to the temperature going up, and the lack oxegenation at the surface.
Nice idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Our reservoirs lose tons of water over the long hot dry days of summer. Add that to the 5 year drought we're in....and it'd help enormously. Of course, that would probably mean boats and jetskis would be off limits during that time, but having water is more important that having fun.
Re:Nice idea (Score:2, Informative)
Boating would be ok. Since this "blanket" isn't one physical object, but a collection of molecules...boaters could rip a path through the water, and these molecules would close off the exposed water. Wow, looks like the only hangup now is possible ecological issuegs.
Re:Nice idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Our reservoirs lose tons of water over the long hot dry days of summer. Add that to the 5 year drought we're in....and it'd help enormously.
After all your local bodies of water have been treated, you can change that to:
"... the 15 year drought we're in..."
Re:Nice idea (Score:2)
Positive spin? (Score:5, Funny)
Are they trying to place a positive ecological spin on oil spils/slicks? Oil is organic, and it does prevent the evaporation of the underlying water.
I recall seeing/reading elsewhere that a few millileters is enough to create a minute slick over several square kilometers.
Re:Positive spin? (Score:2)
They don't need to put a positive spin on that! If you watched fox news, you'd know that "Oil slicks found to keep seals young, supple..."
Or, at least, I thought it was fox news...
Old hat (Score:5, Informative)
If you are having problems keeping water due to evaporation then you need to choose a better dam site.
More interesting is a proposal to store stormwater underground. Firstly, the land area and evaporation issues disappear (to be replaced by similar issues
Re:Old hat (Score:2, Informative)
More research? (Score:2, Funny)
Isn't there alot of data on that?
Geez! What are these researchers thinking about.
Then next thing you know, Exxon will be dumping oil from their tankers to mitigate "global evaporation".
Website URL and Possible Additional Application (Score:5, Informative)
Flexible Solutions [flexiblesolutions.com]
This might also be useful for refineries/chemical plants, etc. that maintain large atmospheric pressure reservoirs of dihydrogen monoxide for fire-fighting purposes.
Re:Website URL and Possible Additional Application (Score:2)
Wow... that really sounds deadly. Like the sort of thing you'd find at a refinery or chemical plant.
Re:Website URL and Possible Additional Application (Score:2)
Home improvement? (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe not so many dead fish (Score:4, Insightful)
My first thought was the same as yours -- oil on water and asphyxiating fish. But that might not be the case.
They claim that their technique produces a monolayer on the surface. That's a layer one molecule thick. This would easily be disturbed by the slightest motion or breeze. The tiniest ripple would create local openings. In fact, this is probably why their reduction in water loss is so small -- only tens of percent. Lots of water gets out. This implies that lots of gases could also get in. (i.e., gas exchange with the atmosphere would perhaps be inhibited by tens of percent amount.)
Prevent evaporation AND generate electricity? (Score:2)
While having this layer of molecules on the surface, rig up an array of thermoelectric modules (Peltier elements) to conduct the heat that would be trapped on the water and use it to generate enough electricity to be able to drive the water pumps or whatever. I don't know how feasable this would be though since from what I hear the efficiency isn't the greatest in the world...
No beowulf cluster
Have to say it... (Score:2, Funny)
Ok, sorry, had to...but really, doesn't this sound like the setup for a sci-fi world saving movie where the original cause of the disaster was something incredibly stupid a scientist (the one equipping the rescuers) did?
"You bred the aliens on Earth?"
"Doctor! You designed the Neutronomiconimeter Canon!?!"
"My god! Humans spread the oil on the ocean, causing the sea monsters to attack from Atlantis!?!"
Re:Have to say it... (Score:2)
I think you meant to say water vapor ware....
Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Turns out, the drinking water for almost all larger cities is from reservoirs somewhere. Then there's the reservoirs for power generation. This is a significant percentage of major rivers. Rivers that many species depend on for survival.
So yes, it does have to be run through the "green" filter. Otherwise you can clai
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:2)
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:2)
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:2)
I agree though that we have nothing fear for the sake of the weather and global environment.
Re:Everything gets run through the green filter? (Score:2)
For Example http://www.malaria.org/DDTpage.html
Two molecules thick over a huge area= very little. (Score:2)
From the referenced article: "... saving the water costs less than half the price of replacing it..."
That means that the water-saving layer is VERY expensive, if it is only two molecules thick.
Organic molecules (Score:2)
Mmm..... Organic molecules.....
Prior art ? (Score:2, Funny)
Isn't this an Oil Slick, some complanies have been doing it for years.
Oops ultra-thin obviously, given oil prices and shortages, they cant afford the old style heavy slicks any more.
Background information: Patents (Score:2, Informative)
J G Ballard's "The Drought" (Score:5, Interesting)
In the book the film is caused by pollution, but it is almost impossible to disperse and remains resistant to the waves and man-made attempts to break up the film. In the end, humanity ends up clinging to life by the edges of the ocean, each person with their own solar-powered desalination plant.
A sobering thought if you've read the book. Imaging what whould happen if this stuff got loose?
Re:J G Ballard's "The Drought" (Score:2)
I guess it's not quite Ice 9 [duke.edu] though.
A thin blanket of organic molecules? (Score:2)
they're called Langmuir monolayers (Score:3, Informative)
People wanting more info should STF(ree)W for Irving Langmuir or Langmuir-Blodgett monolayers, e.g.,
http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/chemistry/ institutes/1992/Langmuir.html
ultra-thin blanket of organic molecules=oil slick (Score:2, Funny)
Vegetable oil? (Score:2)
Re:One step at a time! (Score:2, Interesting)
An interesting thing i saw on today tonight a while ago whilst in the middle of the last Aussie drought (which we're still pretty much in) was a guy who was using this left over laundry water and sink water and other waters to water his grass and gardins!
And what about the laundry detergents that get soaked into the soil and water reserves? It might not have an effect if one guy does it but what if everyone did it? I've lived in a place that had a natural water reservoir nearby and it doesn't take a lot
Re:One step at a time! (Score:2)
there's people round Oz now that are putting in full water treatment plants under their gardens. Somethings gota be done. Maybe the goverment can do something similar to the PBS (pharasutical benefits scheeme) where they can bring the costs down of water saving devices.
that way everyone can benifit from lower water consump
Re:One step at a time! (Score:2, Insightful)
I work in the water treatment business, and I've visited water treatment plants all over North America. The thing that is common to all water supplies is that the customers think they have some sort of a "right" to unlimited clean water without sacrifice. They grumble and complain and w