Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Space Science

Chinese Astronaut Makes It Back Safely 540

Posted by simoniker from the collective-happiness-levels-high dept.
brindafella writes "SpaceDaily is reporting that China's historic first manned space mission has ended with the safe return of its first astronaut Lieutenant Colonel Yang Liwei, 38, who landed just before 6.30am Beijing time (2230 UTC 15/10) at the designated recovery zone north east of Beijing. The capsule has been recovered and opened and the pilot is very much alive, 'and doing autographs.' Furthermore, 'Premier Wen Jiabao was seen on television talking to Yang on the phone and smiling widely and clapping after he hung up.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Chinese Astronaut Makes It Back Safely More

Chinese Astronaut Makes It Back Safely

Comments Filter:

  • Whens the next mission (Score:5, Funny)

    by The Famous Druid ( 89404 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:39PM (#7225673)
    Thats the problem with Chinese space missions, as soon as one has landed, you want another.

    • Should it be perhaps
      quid res Latinae
      (what thing of latin)
      rather than
      quid quid latine ?
      Been a while since I took that language.

      On a different topic, Why are they called takionauts? That is, is that what they are called in chinese? are the chinese making up greek words in roman letters?

  • How fast will they move ahead? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by friday2k ( 205692 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:41PM (#7225686)
    Now, congratulations to the Chinese to jumping over this first hurdle of space exploration, but as the article also points out, their designs are based on 36 year old designs (with some upgrades). Now that this is done, how fast will they advance? Can they move full steam ahead, go to the Moon, to Mars, etc? Or will it take them another 15 years to do the next step?
    • Taking 15 years to the next step is only reasonable, provided they make that next step. I'd much rather China not follow in the US's footsteps and make hurried overly specialized design decisions just to make it to the moon, then stop just when the bugs started to be worked out.

      Slow but sustained development would be a terrific thing, unfortunately I think China's government is really only interested in the short term propaganda value, just like the US.

      Doug

      • Re:How fast will they move ahead? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by quacking duck ( 607555 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @09:03PM (#7225838)
        Slow but sustained development would be a terrific thing, unfortunately I think China's government is really only interested in the short term propaganda value, just like the US.

        This story [msnbc.com] suggests this isn't just a short-term propaganda project. The author's analysis of the systems involved, that they included a lot of equipment that you wouldn't bother with on a one-off design, suggest that they put a lot of thought behind the system and they're in this for the long haul.

        • Um... yeah... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by devphil ( 51341 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @10:57PM (#7226506) Homepage


          That's putting it mildly. Our "captains of industry" don't think any farther ahead than four or five months. Our politicians don't think any farther ahead than the next election.

          (Some of the other posts remind me of the Onion's sideline caption: 6,000-Year-Old Culture Now Considered a "Developing Nation".)

          All the researched, published, well-documented reports about modern China -- i.e., ones in bookstores, not slashdot; actual books, not single web pages and sound bites -- point to plans stretching over the next ten to fifty years, not just for space, but for China in general. They realize that almost none of the plans will come to fruition in their lifetimes, but that's okay, their descendants will put the finishing touches on and see it happen. We in the U.S. wouldn't dream of investing in something that won't benefit the same people investing in it.

          Analogy: In the minutes that China's rockets take to slowly lift off the ground, America is racing the quarter-mile in top-fuel hotrods and claiming they rule the world... while China's rocket gains momentum... and keeps gaining momemtum... and eventually covers distances the little modded hotrod can't even dream of. Yes, they're in for the very long haul.

          • Re:Um... yeah... (Score:4, Informative)

            by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) * on Thursday October 16, 2003 @04:55AM (#7227760)
            They realize that almost none of the plans will come to fruition in their lifetimes, but that's okay, their descendants will put the finishing touches on and see it happen.

            Chinese long-term thinking goes both ways tho'. Let me tell you a story. In 1405, the Ming emperors were well on their way to establishing naval (and hence trading) dominance in the coastal Pacific. Under the command of Admiral Cheng Ho, a Chinese fleet of 250 vessels and 28,000 men explored as far as the Persian Gulf and Ehiopia. Let me put those numbers into perspective: 600 years ago the Chinese were deploying vessels of 180M in length, that is 30M shorter than the present-day British Royal Navy's flagship. Cheng's ships were big enough that for extended voyages, they could grow food on their decks! With that sort of technological superiority, the Chinese should have established a hegemony that would have persisted today.

            But in 1433, the new Ming emperor and his bureaucrats grew afraid of the rapidly expanding merchant class, who were growing wealthy through international trade, and began to pass laws to limit economic growth, to keep political power firmly in the hands of the Dynasty. By 1500 it was a capital offense to own or construct a vessel with more than 2 masts.

            In 1498, European explorer Vasco da Gama, in a single show, had managed to navigate to the Indian ocean. By Cheng Ho's standards, da Gama's ship was puny and his crew mere amateurs. Da Gama should have been patted on the head by vastly superior Chinese sailors and traders and sent back home. Only, there was no Chinese fleet anymore; the Mings had ordered it broken up. By 1502, Portugal in particular and Europe in general had asserted military superiority in the Indian Ocean and China had begun to turn inwards.

            Now, 600 years later, a European colony is the world's dominant economic, technological and military power, Europe itself is still incredibly rich and powerful by historic standards, and China is only starting to recover from a decision made by a weak Emperor in 1433. I predict that history will repeat itself, as soon as a new Cheng Ho leads the exploration of space, the Chinese political establishment will turn on him. That's how it works in China.

          • Re:Um... yeah... (Score:3, Insightful)

            by pmz ( 462998 )
            Our politicians don't think any farther ahead than the next election.

            In the interest of keeping the USA a free nation, this is the strongest argument against implementing government-managed social programs, such as social security and nationalized health care. The only way for people really to watch out for themselves and their families is to either do it themselves or hire a private firm they can trust isn't in it for a quick buck. The government is always in it for the quick buck (or vote).

            In China,

    • Re:How fast will they move ahead? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by isomeme ( 177414 ) <cdberry@gmail.com> on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:55PM (#7225783) Journal
      It should be noted that US hardware for human space travel is also based on designs which are around three decades old (with some upgrades). Ditto Russian hardware.
    • They have the advantage of learning from 30-odd years of American and Russian spaceflight research. They've acquired a lot from public sources, and, like any good country with a strong military-industrial complex, the rest by subterfuge. Plus we know (and I say this as a simple statement of fact), the Chinese are excellent imitators. I predict rapid progress.
    • Unlike some who suggest it's a space race just for propoganda value, the Chinese space program has been quite methodical and they've taken their time. They were originally going to launch in 1999 to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the PRC, but wisely decided not to.

      I would much rather see slow but steady progress for the Chinese, both in their engineering and operations, than hurried, rushed decisions that seemed to be a part of NASA culture and contributed to accidents like Challenger and Columbia

  • Congratulations to China! (Score:3, Funny)

    by mOoZik ( 698544 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:42PM (#7225690) Homepage
    Congrats, China! You managed to put a man into orbit (and return safely to the Earth) without the benfit of stolen German technology! Space exploration is no longer limited to Russia and the U.S. - show them what you're made of!

    Go Forth And Conquer!

    why am i so excited? :D
    • Congrats, China! You managed to put a man into orbit (and return safely to the Earth) without the benfit of stolen German technology!

      Yay! Instead it was done with upgraded Russian technology!

      On a related note, my favourite story about Chinese space exploration is this:

      About 650 years ago, an inventive Chinese mandarin named Wan Hu tied 47 large rockets filled with gunpowder to his chair and, firmly clutching a kite in each hand, ordered his servants to light the touchpapers.

      He vanished in a cloud of s

      • In German and English
        I know how to count down
        And I'm learning Chinese
        Says Werner von Braun

        -- Tom Leher
    • Their next project is going to be a "space elevator," constructed by standing on each other's shoulders.

      That should get 'em to Mars before us.

      KFG
    • Somehow you made me think of this:

      Looks like you're trying to put a person into space. Would you like to:
      • Use outdated Russian technology and suck up the loss of life?
      • Use outdated American technology and suck up the loss of life?
      • Use unfinished European technology and suck up the loss of life?
      • Create your own and suck up the loss of life?
      • Throw me behind the rockets and see how well I burn?

    • Re:Congratulations to China! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by LS ( 57954 )
      It appears that you do not know that Tsien Hsue-Shen, the founder of China's space program, was a member of NASA's JPL and a protege of Theodor von Karman, and learned from Wernher von Braun.

      LS
  • While I normally don't support China in just about any way (due to their human rights stances), I must say Congrats on getting people in space. It's a huge undertaking obviously, and i'm glad to see that everything went well.
    Perhaps soon we will have more countries docking at the International Space station instead of just Russia and the US.

    • It'd be nice to have more countries pull up and dock with the International Space Station, but I bet when they built it they just didn't put in enough garage space. I mean, it was already over-budget, what would the point of putting in docking for twelve, when a two car garage (with one in the driveway for emergencies) would suffice?

      Of course, the important thing most ISS astronauts are probably asking themselves is:
      Do they Deliver? ;)
    • While I normally don't support ancient Egytians in just about any way (due to their human rights stances),congrats on the pyrmids!

      sheesh.

  • Response to Microsoft? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anusien ( 705743 )
    Is there anyone else that thinks this is China saying, "Screw you America, we don't need you and your restrictive anti-trust business practices?" I mean, all the recent events:
    China Open-Sources
    The Great Firewall of China
    China's Moon Launch

    Is it just me or is this China trying to assert its technological domninance, so to speak?

    • Re:Response to Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by petabyte ( 238821 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @09:08PM (#7225871)
      For god's sake:

      NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO DO WITH MICROSOFT.

      They put a man into orbit which is pretty impressive. I don't see an Apple "Spaceport" or Intel Pentium 4000Kilopascal rocket blasting off.

      Now while I agree that they probably want to assert their own technical dominance and avoid US interests (thats good economics). But China talking about "restrictive anti-trust business practices" ... I suddenly have pictures of Bill Gates standing in front of a tank at Tianamein. China doesn't care about Microsoft; it cares about its own self-interests. Exploring science leads to discoveries that help its people and *make money*. Its sad in these post 9-11 days the US has such a hard time with that.
    • No, this is pretty much China just minding its own business. For some reason they seem to think they have status as a sovreign nation; and one just as capable as any other. They have a long, long history of such.

      The sleeping dragon stirs.

      Invest in Nomex underwear. You might need it.

      KFG
  • I'm just curious if there are any third-parties (U.S, Europe) out there keeping track of China's manned space mission to see if they actually succeeded. Not that a major world power would EVER lie!

    • Re:Proof? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mek2600 ( 677900 )
      I'm sure that EVERY country that has the resources is going to closely watch what China does in space.

    • Re:Proof? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ColaMan ( 37550 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @11:32PM (#7226694) Journal
      You can bet that any time anyone launches something orbital (or more importantly, suborbital) that NORAD (an thier Russian etc counterparts) will be looking long and hard at it.

      I'd be guessing that somewhere in their three ring binder for space launches there's a little note that says "ring this number and inform NORAD et al of time of launch". It'd be the polite thing to do, anyway.
  • I for one would rather have china than Bill. The former's food is better, for starters.

  • Meanwhile... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) * on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:48PM (#7225734) Homepage
    We're spending all out money destroying Iraq and then rebuilding it.

    Not meaning to sound bitter, and I think its fantastic that the Chinese did this. I hope China goes to the moon or beyond.
    • I hope China goes to the moon or beyond.

      But not Europa. Attempt no landings there.

  • President Hu Jintao watched the blast-off at the Jiuquan Launch Center and hailed the launch as "the glory of our great motherland."

    Hu said the culmination of the 11-year space program was a "historic step of the Chinese people in the advance of climbing over the peak of the world's science and technology."

    Is it just me, or is there something ominous in the way this is worded? The Chinese government believes that the motherland will inevitably surpass other nations in science and technology, and th

    • No, it's not about supremacy, but rather, about national pride of the collective. It is the beauty of communism.

      • You might want to brush up on your 'isms. Study fascism very carefully. I'm not a fan of Michael Ledeen, but here's an editorial [benadorassociates.com] he wrote that makes some interesting observations.

    • Re:Historic step up the mountain (Score:4, Interesting)

      by quacking duck ( 607555 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:58PM (#7225806)
      Firefly [fireflyfans.net], here we come!

      To those not in the know, Firefly's set in a future where China became one of the dominant superpowers, influential enough that all the English-speaking characters can easily communicate... well, curse anyway... in Chinese (and Serenity's system alarms are bilingual, English and Cantonese). Could be that Joss Whedon's idea for a background might not be so farfetched!

    • Well I, for one, welcome our Chinese overlords
    • China is sending a signal:

      Yang unveiled a Chinese and United Nations flag while in orbit in what the Chinese media said was intended to highlight pursuit of a peaceful exploration of space.

      The russians started their boran project to copy the space shuttle because they thought it could/would be used as a strategic nuclear arms platform (almost zero detection time because there would be no missile launches), and the chinese aren't happy either with permanent space stations orbiting earth if they can't re

    • Seriously, we're the home of McDonalds, whose goal is to cram cheap process foods down the throats of each of the 6 billion on the planet.

      Every mid-to-mega power nation inwardly hopes to trounce the world.

  • Space.com Article (Score:3, Funny)

    by pHatidic ( 163975 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:50PM (#7225748)
    According to the article on space.com [space.com], the mission cost 1 billion. To quote, "Yang hurtled around the planet for the rest of Wednesday, making a planned orbit shift in midafternoon and stopping work only to rest and eat Chinese food designed especially for space travel." I for one think 1 billion dollars is well worth it for space chinese food. Along with space icecream, we can now have a complete and balanced space diet. I look forward to the day when the guy on the phone of the local chinese restraunt asks if i want my dumplings to be steamed, panfried, or 'space'.

  • ... but "Welcome to the 60's !!! [aerospaceguide.net]"

    On a serious note... China, if you're reading this [usatoday.com], Congrats !!!

    Oh, and thanks for all the spam ;)
    • You might be closer to the truth than you think. A Communist nation is on America's Most Feared Nation list; Congress is on a checks and balances vacation to secure their constituants from terrorists. Bush has sort of decided that the missle defense treaty should be ignored.

      There are some interesting differences: instead of a Cuban Missle Crisis, we have a North Korean Missle Ignorance. But we do have a significant interest in Taiwan. Rather than a Vietnam war, we have an Iraqi Occupation. And of course, w

  • Not a Hoax, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:57PM (#7225801) Journal
    Did we get to see this guy before the launch? I am not advocating a conspiracy or anything, but I would bet that China had a backup prepared to make the media appearances if anything had gone wrong. They were certainly quite worried about having the launch televised.
    • There are still lots of people that say that the u.s trip to the moon was a hoax.

      So, your point is?
    • Apparently, they had a live televised rocket launch a few years back which went horribly awry. The rocket veered off course and several people on the ground were killed. They didn't want to run the risk of having this happen again, so broadcast plans were scrapped...
  • are saying it is hardly a feat.. all the developed countries brought a man back home alive, now if they killed him on the first flight.. now that would be light years ahead.

  • Hopefully the start of another space race.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Desmoden ( 221564 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @08:59PM (#7225811) Homepage

    While it will take time for places like China to really catch up with us, it's not as long as some might think.

    The US space program is a MESS. Shuttle launches aren't even news worthy anymore unless they blow up. (no offense intended, those who died are still heroes in my mind). But without a challenge, our space program will continue to lag.

    We need more countries like China to catch up. We need someone to out pace us and kick start the US interest in space.

    Hopefull this will be the first step. ....or we could tell Bush there is oil on Mars =)

    • Re:Hopefully the start of another space race.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Cordath ( 581672 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @09:56PM (#7226165)
      China is actually coming along nicely in a lot of ways. It's beginning to embrace capitalism. Socialism is a nice idea, but greed breeds innovation better. As China's economy heats up it's people are going to come into closer contact with the rest of the world and mainstream world ideas. The communist regime might not be overthrown, but its a safe bet they're going to gradually become more and more moderate. With China's vast natural resources and immense population their economy could easily dwarf that of the U.S. within a couple decades. Say what you will, 1 billion+ is a heckuva tax base!

      Keep in mind that skilled labour costs in China are a fraction of what they are in the U.S.. The resources of China's space program could easily dwarf those of NASA long before their economy grows larger than that of the U.S.. (This assumes both nations spend a similar proportion of their GDP on their space programs. China may well value it higher and spend even more...) As has been said, they don't exactly have to reinvent every wheel that has led NASA to it's current cutting-edge 1970's shuttle program either. There are plenty of capitalists, many of them in the U.S., who would only be too glad to do a little Cantonese consulting.

      This isn't necessarily how things will happen. However, if the Chinese don't do anything stupid their economic and technological superiority is functionally inevitable provided U.S. citizens don't start multiplying like mosquitoes. It's a simple matter of statistics unless you subscribe to some sort of white supremast movment and belive that Chinese minds are inherently inferior.

      Personally, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to start early on those Cantonese lessons. :D
    • Does anyone else remember the Well World series by Jack Chalker? The main character, Nathan Brazil, said pretty much the same thing - randomness had interfered in Earth's development such that it follows our current history - the USSR collapsed and the cold war ended; and without anyone to challenge the US and keep them active the space program suffered as a result.

      He was right on the mark. The US needs to have a strong competitor. Otherwise it just tends to stagnate.
  • I am sure he'll be dead with 3 weeks.

  • From:megaspam@fgfgreg114.cn
    To: "Dave21212@slashdot.com"
    Subject: OFFER OFFER OFFER ! KT (space travel) 5hsdrsheher44y4w2112
    Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2003 20:29:16 +0900
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/html;

    Space flight 4-U !!! 2-DAY
    Acting now to get chance to go with space flight !

    see wedsite for details !


    Anti- SPAM Policy Disclaimer: Under Bills.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress, mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for remo

  • Good. (Score:2)

    by Valar ( 167606 )
    Maybe we can have another space race now. Maybe I'll be able to go to the moon this time. Maybe they'll make me go to the moon this time.
  • Wow, these racist posts are getting pretty full on - racial slurs about black americans get modded down into oblivion and racial slurs about anyone else get modded to the stars.

    It seems like the time is right to split slashdot into us.slashdot.org and wholeworld.slashdot.org.

    Or maybe under14s.slashdot.org and over14s.slashdot.org
    • I hate to say this, but I have seen far more adults make racial slurs than teenagers... unfortunately, even my own grandmother has been a culprit on occasion. Of course, I live in a bit of a sheltered area, and the teenagers make far more homosexual-bashing remarks than the adults, so that's to be taken with a grain of salt. Still, it's not the teenagers that went to Vietnam and called their enemies and comrades alike "gooks", nor did they live through World War II when the common word for a person of Jap
  • Since it worked, no one will be killed by the state for their failure. Thus, saving their families from paying for the bullet used to kill them!
  • we have now proven we can put an object in space, change its trajectory, then put it anywhere in the world.
  • But it's like watching the Special Olympics. :P

  • It's good to see... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iiioxx ( 610652 ) <iiioxx@gmail.com> on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @09:25PM (#7225981)
    That courage and the American spirit of adventure is alive and well... albeit in China. In the US, we're still wringing our hands and calling for an end to manned space flight, because we lost a shuttle and seven fine astronauts - along with our backbone as a people.

    Kudos to the Chinese. It's about time we had some healthy competition in space. Let's get another Space Race started. Maybe that will get the US Congress and NASA off their collective asses and back into the game (and we might see a human on Mars inside of 10 years). Maybe we can drive a little rivalry to foster some nationalistic pride in the US again (but I doubt it).

    I know this: if the Chinese lost a capsule, they'd bow their heads in homage for a moment of silence, then get to launching another one, two weeks later. That's the kind of resolve that allows a nation to succeed. The rest of the world should take note, unless they want to be following in the footsteps of the Chinese for the remainder of the 21st century, instead of leading the way.

    • Kudos to the Chinese.

      Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

      Let's get another Space Race started.

      No, let's not. I know it's a pipe dream but I'd much rather see some real, proper international cooperation, and I'm sure many of the scientists working in this area would love to see this as well. With all the great minds working in this area (after all, 3 nations have individually now put humans into space) imagine what could be achieved?

      foster some nationalistic pride in the US again

      (bye bye karma ....) Th

      • Re:It's good to see... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) *
        No, let's not. I know it's a pipe dream but I'd much rather see some real, proper international cooperation, and I'm sure many of the scientists working in this area would love to see this as well. With all the great minds working in this area (after all, 3 nations have individually now put humans into space) imagine what could be achieved?

        Umm, absolutely nothing?

        It's a fact of human nature. Without competition, there is no urgency. Without that, an unlimited amount of time and money gets spent on lookin
  • I congratulate the Chinese, and I place high hopes that my homeland of India will soon follow in their footsteps!

    Let's get some more players in the space game. Maybe someday the USA will outsource their routine non-military space operations to India or China, like they do with their programming, manufacturing, etc!

    • Let's get some more players in the space game. Maybe someday the USA will outsource their routine non-military space operations to India or China, like they do with their programming, manufacturing, etc!

      I'm all for it -- as long as we've moved on to The Next Big Thing (whatever that will be) before then.

  • 60's comments are silly... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Comatose51 ( 687974 ) on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @10:06PM (#7226208) Homepage
    "Welcome to the 60's", etc. comments are simply pointless. First, I hate to break this to some of you, but our rockets haven't advanced all that much since Saturn V. The shuttle is still decades old and we have yet to start on a replacement. China doesn't have to catch up to the 21st century to level with us, all they have to do is get up to the 80's technology, which with their immense pool of college graduates, this won't actually take 20 years.

    Next, keep making those comments if it makes you feel better, but what are other nations supposed to do? Throw their hands up into the air and just simply accept the American lead and say "The Americans and Russians already beat us to it, what's the point of even trying?" God forbid the underdog from daring to dream big... How about doing something more useful like trying to advance our own technology? Maybe it's time to replace the shuttle with some 21st century technology and puts some gap between us and the Chinese?

    Lastly, who really cares where the technology and the help came from? Does China care now that they know how to do it? Let's face it, technology has always been built on top of the works of others. Let's not forget who were the first people to use gun powder and create rockets. China is going to built on top of the new knowledge and keep advancing.
  • Some country (not China) decides to invest in a "Space Program" shows a bunch of people dressed in astronaut suits. Shows film of people loading into rockets. And then fires their giant "Space missile", purposely fails it and causes it to crash and explode in some neighboring country killing thousands of people. I just hope Israel and/or Palestine doesn't decide to invest in a "Space Program" any time soon.

  • I hope (Score:3)

    by interstellar_donkey ( 200782 ) <pathighgate&hotmail,com> on Wednesday October 15, 2003 @10:18PM (#7226284) Homepage Journal
    I hope this starts the begginings of another space race. With our (America's) woefully old technology, hopefully the Chinese will catch up soon and force us to start really innovating again.

    Yes, there are valid reasons why America has been so lax in the development of space travel. Mostly the fact that we can't seem to justify the expense in light of the profound economic problems in our country.

    Of course, there is the opinion...my opinion...that in the long run, mankind's advancement in space is far more important then short term economic woes. And if it takes one of our (America's) uneasy neighbors to start making us nervous for us to get back on the ball in full ernest, then it's a good thing.


  • It's "Taikonaut", you insensitive clod!

Slashdot Top Deals

"The great question... which I have not been able to answer... is, `What does woman want?'" -- Sigmund Freud

Close