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Science

Creatine Found to Boost Brainpower 531

Eric Ass Raymond writes "According to this BBC article, researchers from the University of Sydney and Macquarie University in Australia have found that the dietary supplement creatine - a natural compound found in muscle tissue - can improve not only your athletic performance, but also your intelligence and memory. One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour."
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Creatine Found to Boost Brainpower

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  • body odor? (Score:5, Funny)

    by oakz ( 311089 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:08AM (#6684713)
    One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour

    ...yeah...like this affects the slashdot crowd much...
    • by Lord_Slepnir ( 585350 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:16AM (#6684791) Journal
      Actually it will. Rather than having to worry about showering, putting on clean clothes, etc. before a date, I can just tell my Girlfriend that I'm on creatine, even if I'm not.
      • Re:body odor? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by DoraLives ( 622001 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:32AM (#6684911)
        The article mentions that creatine is a natural component of meat. So, that begs the question. Do most of us geeky smart asses ingest a higher proportion of meat in our diets than the average dummy? Is that why we stink and think? Inquiring minds want to know.
        • Re:body odor? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by RoLi ( 141856 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:59AM (#6685176)
          Do most of us geeky smart asses ingest a higher proportion of meat in our diets than the average dummy?

          I don't want to insult anyone, but for me it's far more likely that lack of creatine (= vegetarian diet) is causing redused brain abilities than Creatine boosting brain power.

          Seems more logical to me. They should have had test-groups various levels of Creatin doses, I would bet that only the lowest levels have a reduced intelligence while the rest is average.

          • by carlos_benj ( 140796 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @09:06AM (#6685244) Journal
            ...lack of creatine (= vegetarian diet) is causing redused brain abilities than Creatine boosting brain power.

            I would bet that only the lowest levels have a reduced intelligence while the rest is average.


            Did you have some creatine between sentences?
          • by mkweise ( 629582 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @11:49AM (#6687167)
            I don't want to insult anyone, but for me it's far more likely that lack of creatine (= vegetarian diet) is causing redused brain abilities than Creatine boosting brain power.

            Doubtful. I've been a strict vegetarian since 1986, and a quasi-vegetarian for several years before that. I did not notice any coincident deterioration in memory function; I'd say if you want to preserve your memory function, the important thing is to avoid smoking too much weed - not take some weird, overpriced pills.

            It's also interesting to note that India, a largely vegetarian nation, appears to be relatively geek-rich [slashdot.org].

            Oh, and there are plenty of brilliant vegetarians to hold up as examples, from Pythagoras and Plato to Tolstoy and Einstein.
            • by Sgt York ( 591446 ) <jvolm@NospaM.earthlink.net> on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @01:03PM (#6688029)
              Veganism won't give you deficient ammounts of creatine in your system.

              Most people can make their own creatine from other amino acids in the diet; creatine is non-essential. So, it is not really possible to be creatine-deficient unless you have an absorption/anabolism deficiency in respect to creatine. If you don't consume enough creatine over a period of time, normal people will make their own.

            • Note on India (Score:3, Interesting)

              by Dirk Pitt ( 90561 )
              The populace of India, particularly the rising geek-white-collar crowd that has money, is increasingly blending meat into their diet. I have friends in India who regularly eat mutton and fish, and even the 'hill people' (their words) will eat a respectable amount of snake.

              Because of this, there is a scary increase in heart disease amongst Indians that are adopting this more 'western' diet. It would be interesting to see how the plot would look if you tracked rise of tech jobs versus meat consumption. Per

        • I'm a vegitarian... But me smart.
    • by MadX ( 99132 )
      When they refer to unpleasent body odor .. Just how bad is it I wonder.
      It could be
      "You smell funny", and by simply applying the correct amount of deo etc. you would be fine.
      Or is this
      "You smell like a skunk being run over by a fertilizer truck next to a wood pulp factory !!"
      In which case perhaps an extended stay indoors is the order of the day ??
    • by teeker ( 623861 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:54AM (#6685113)
      Don't worry...if you're concerned about body odour, there is a new patch you can apply! Check out this email from the BOML:

      From: Jasper Spaans [email blocked]
      To: Linus Torvalds
      Cc: Body Odour Mailing List
      Subject: [PATCH] Change all occurrences of 'odour' to 'odor'
      Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2003 20:00:32 +0200
      Hello,
      This patch is a followup to creatine changeset 1.1046.1.459, which changes all instances of 'body odour' to 'body odor'.
    • Re:body odor? (Score:5, Informative)

      by alchemist68 ( 550641 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:59AM (#6685174)
      One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour

      To counteract the foul stench caused by metabolizing creatine, take chlorophyll which is available at your local health food store. Chlorophyll is a natural internal deodorant that assists in destroying the stinky metabolites produced in our bodies, including bad breath. It does this through the chemistry of porphyrins, which are known to be very reactive when they are de-metalated (removing magnesium or copper from the porphyrin metal center in the case of chlorophyll).

      On a somewhat related note, when you bruise your skin and observe yellow/brown/blue colorations in the area of the injury site, the hemoglobin (a porphyrin with iron in the metal center) is being broken down into the components of bile, which are those colors mentioned. In fact, some medications have porphyrins in them, so don't get exposed to direct sunlight when taking these meds, as de-metalated porphyrins break down into radicals upon exposure to UV radiation. This is why they are also used as insecticides.
      • by Drakonian ( 518722 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @09:19AM (#6685393) Homepage
        ...so don't get exposed to direct sunlight when taking these meds...

        ...yeah...like this affects the slashdot crowd much...

      • Back in the 1950s, chlorophyll was a fad food, and supposedly had the power to make you and your breath smell better. They put it in everything: toothpaste, candy, all sorts of stuff. Even dog food, so that your pooch would smell better. I think Clorets is the sole survivor from that time.

        The fad ended when it was pointed out that goats practically live on chlorophyll, but they still stink.
    • I used to live with a body builder, taking this suppliment doesn't make you ooze some odor out of your skin. One word, FARTS! Thats it, the stuff that used to come out of him used to clear classrooms! Oh my god, they should bottle that for riot control!
    • Insta-Geek! (Score:3, Funny)

      by Dalcius ( 587481 )
      It's the amazing new product, Insta-Geek! By taking this supplement regularly, you can magically turn yourself into an intelligent*, smelly nerd**! Be the, uh, envy of all your friends!

      Try Insta-Geek today!

      *Not guaranteed to bestow knowledge of kernel hacking.
      **Not responsible for any resulting physical abuse.
  • In other news... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Suhas ( 232056 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:08AM (#6684714)
    ...dope testing for SAT's and other qualifying exams was announced today.
    • Re:In other news... (Score:5, Informative)

      by banks ( 205655 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:48AM (#6685071) Homepage
      Can't test for creatine- it's in the body naturally. There was some talk a few years ago of testing for elevated levels of creatine in athletic competitions, but it just wouldn't work. The levels fluctuate too much naturally for any test to provide good data.

      Besides, people have been experimenting with the various "smart drugs" [erowid.org] for years and years, and the various academic testing boards couldn't care less. I don't think amount or type of chemical assitance could realiably provide an increase in the reasoning skills these exams test.

  • by MORTAR_COMBAT! ( 589963 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:09AM (#6684717)
    Thanks to creatine, not only is his body huge and muscular, he apparently has to be brilliant and have a good memory as well!

    And maybe the "unpleasant body odour" will help him with his "clean out Sacremento" campaign...
  • by LeoDV ( 653216 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:10AM (#6684726) Journal
    ...the amount of jokes about smartness, body odour and slashdotters will soon be verging on the infinite.
  • We all know that it's Odor though..... right?
  • by rf0 ( 159958 )
    So I can intelligent and smell or stupid and smell nice. Ho hum life is full of hard decisions. Now what for lunch? :)

    Rus
  • by dBLiSS ( 513375 ) <theking54.gmail@com> on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:10AM (#6684733) Journal
    I can't imagine how dumb the muscle headed pea brains, I see at the gym every day, were before they started taking this stuff!
  • Must...resist...smelly...nerd...joke...

    Can't.

    And that would be different from your sweaty unbathed basement-dwelling sysadmin how?
  • "Improve [...] your intelligence and memory. One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour."

    This is how the slashdot geeks have been for ages!

  • by Renraku ( 518261 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:12AM (#6684746) Homepage
    Some TV show or something did a poll catering to women. They asked them, "If there were a pill that made your ass bigger, but made you way smarter, would you take it?" 90% of the women said they wouldn't take it. Of course, that might not apply here, as us men have no shame.
    • by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:17AM (#6684797)


      > Some TV show or something did a poll catering to women. They asked them, "If there were a pill that made your ass bigger, but made you way smarter, would you take it?

      If you took it as a suppository, would it make you a big-headded smartass?

    • Re:That reminds me. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mt2mb4me ( 550507 ) *
      That was on the Man show, i think that it may have been skewed, first, also, most woman are happy and confident in their intelligence. why make yourself more ugly for something that you don't really need.
    • Yes, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by StarKruzr ( 74642 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:20AM (#6684830) Journal
      ... women have an obsession with the size of their rear-ends which borders on the paranoid delusional. They're all under the impression that wide hips and a generous backside are somehow UNattractive, which fascinates me since these things are caused by the same feminization hormones that brought us such lovely things as breasts and the female leg shape.

      I can't understand how they all fell under this "MUST HAVE TINY ASS" spell. Is it just massive amounts of bizarre social conditioning? Do the vast majority of women suffer from some kind of targeted body dysmorphic disorder? What?
      • Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mce ( 509 )
        And not only that. Evolutionally speaking, wide hips are a indication that child birth will be less painfull and risky. In other words: men who want their children to have the best chance in life and who want to have the least risk of loosing their loved one during child birth should actually prefer wide hips. Of course our modern medical care makes all this less relevant, but on the other hand, the genetically built-in preferences do not adapt that quickly.
      • Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Thing 1 ( 178996 )

        I can't understand how they all fell under this "MUST HAVE TINY ASS" spell. Is it just massive amounts of bizarre social conditioning?

        Yes, in fact. Americans want big breasts and small assess. Brazilians want the opposite -- down there they actually have silicone injections in their butts.

        It's funny how different cultures focus on different things. Philosophically, I prefer the US version: focus on what food (life) comes from, instead of what waste (death) comes from.

    • by Anoraknid the Sartor ( 9334 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:30AM (#6684895)
      So ask the men "this pill shrinks your penis by an inch, but makes you way smarter - would you take it?"

  • by clickety6 ( 141178 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:12AM (#6684749)

    Just because you stink, it doesn't mean you're clever!

  • this will result in most geeks attributing their body odor to superior intellegence.

    Next, they'll attribute not washing an even greater intelligence.

    Then a smelly crotch will be sign of superior sex potential.

    Finally, a whole bunch of stinking geeks will be a beawolf cluster of superbrains...
  • by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:13AM (#6684758) Journal
    Oh great...let's perpetuate the myth that geeks smell bad. You bastards!

    It would be fun to be a buff geek though. "You talkin' to me?"
  • by brejc8 ( 223089 ) * on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:15AM (#6684775) Homepage Journal
    First discovered on the Simpsons and named "poindextrose"
  • Vegetarians were used for the tests, mainly because meat in the diet is in itself a source of creatine, and it would be difficult to gauge exactly how much an individual had consumed.

    Does anyone have any evidence proving this assertion? I would also like to know what the effects are, ie. If I eat a burger at lunch will I be more productive and smarter after lunch? Also any ideas about the creatine found in different types of meat? (fish, pork, etc) I have read many places that fish is good brain food, ma
    • From what I recall, there are small amounts of dietary creatine in red meat. This is insignificant compared to the amount of creatine taken when supplementing with creatine (although a study might see more dramatic effects starting from a zero dietary intake).

      It's also worth mentioning that you can synthesize creatine in your own body, so it's not like anyone is running around with zero creatine.
  • Weee! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by skermit ( 451840 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:15AM (#6684782) Homepage
    Instead of remembering the letters S-C-I-E-N-C-E, I can now take come creatine and remember the letters B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. I'd like to see some of their numbers first before jump to a conclusion that creatine makes you smarter... Even if it were true, remember 1.5 items more than the next guy isn't going to change your life. I wonder if all meat eaters are smarter than their vegetarian counterparts? I should stock up on McD's $1 Double Cheeseburgers and say it's so I can become smarter.
  • Sensationalism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fungii ( 153063 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:16AM (#6684786)
    This is just another in the long series of sensationalist stories about studies that show *** increases ***, or doing X makes you better at Y.

    What annoys me about these stories is that they are always based on small (eg 45) groups and they basically amount to pseudoscience and they give a bad view of the scientific community in general.

    For example, how many times have you read stories about either possible cures or causes of cancer? Journalists should stop coming out with this crap and cover real scientific stories.
    • Re:Sensationalism (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nanojath ( 265940 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:47AM (#6685065) Homepage Journal
      Thank you. Keep in mind also that 45 is the full test group - comprising both those receiving the active agent and those receiving placebo. So basically you've got these results on the basis of a couple dozen people.


      There are other issues. Because Creatine occurs naturally in meat, they used only vegetarians in the study. While I understand their motive to reduce unknown variables in the active agent, it still boils down to using a non-typical population for the sample. Is there an impact? Who knows, unless you go the full distance, using a general population and finding some way to meter and account for their meat intake. Suffice to say, a lot of preliminary studies run afoul of the sample population they use - claims for particular foods made on the basis of a genetically discrete population's traditional diet is the classic example. Is it the diet or their genes creating the particular effect? You don't know until you test a general population.


      This isn't to say this is bad science. It's just very preliminary. Unfortunately, the media judges the newsworthiness of science by how interesting, not how significant or reliable, they think the results are.

    • Dangerous (Score:3, Informative)

      by Deflagro ( 187160 )
      Agreed. Creatine can be dangerous too. If some loser decides to take alot of this stuff and fails to hydrate themselves...kidney and liver problems will occur. I was one of those losers. You need LOTS of hydration as it basically uses water to make your muscles bigger. I was pissing blood at one point, and that was the last of that. This is just more sensationalism.
  • by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:16AM (#6684787) Journal
    Will this be the end of the dumb jock? At least we'll still be able to make fun of their B.O.
  • You grow hair like a chia pet on it too. It grows much quicker than normally.

  • Dr Rae said: "Creatine supplementation may be of use to those requiring boosted mental performance in the short term - for example university students."

    I worked my ass off in University, and never took any sort of miracle Ginseng anything. I work my ass off to keep from getting the office chair ass, too. I do not take anything like this. What happened to hard work? Why does everybody need the "magic pill?" Drugs are for the sick and injured, not the lazy and impatient.

    end rant
    • Re:Kids these days (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Eric Ass Raymond ( 662593 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:24AM (#6684848) Journal
      I for one welcome all methods, biomechanical and biochemical alike, that help me to improve myself with the least amount of effort. Why? Because then I can put effort into improving myself in areas where artificial means are not (yet) available.

      What you're saying is similar to dismissing cars, trains and bicycles because" they're for the sick and injured not for the lazy and impatient - just walk to work like the God intended."

    • Re:Kids these days (Score:4, Insightful)

      by KingJoshi ( 615691 ) <slashdot@joshi.tk> on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:39AM (#6684993) Homepage

      You worked your ass off in school but didn't learn that some are NATURALLY smarter than others? All the time with the books but didn't pay attention to others to notice some are more adept at logic, music, art, athletics, etc.*? That it can take someone hours more to grasp the same concepts as someone else? Maybe some people are tired of being genetically disadvantaged in academics or arts?

      You also need to learn that hard work without spending the time correctly slows progress. What's the problem with boosting intelligence so the effort is put to better use?

      Life is also about a lot of luck. And if some are luckier than others, what's wrong with trying to spread the wealth? But I'm still quite skeptical of their claims...

      *These are still broad categories. There are many aspects to intelligence and this is a simplification.

      • Adversity builds character. No matter what you do, there are still going to be people significantly better suited to doing certain things than you are.

        But let's suppose that some drug is created that improves you significantly across the board. You grow up performing just as well as the other kids, all taking the drug and all conquering math, music, and language with ease. You've reached adulthood without any physical, mental, or, lucky you, emotional inequalities, inadequacies, or setbacks-- what happe

  • Sshhh... All the coders are at work... ;-)
  • Obviously RMS has been participating in their experimental study program for many years.

    It seems the athletic thing didn't work too well for him though.
  • Take Niacin (Score:4, Informative)

    by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:18AM (#6684807) Homepage

    A much cheaper way to boost your brain power is to take Niacin (not Niacinamide). Many people notice that their mental clarity is remarkably better when they have had 500 milligrams of Niacin.

    Take Niacin only after meals to avoid skin flushing (redness and tingling which lasts about 15 minutes), and only with an equal quantity of Vitamin C.

    There are flush-free Niacin compounds and timed-release versions on the market of varying quality in their ability to prevent flushing.

    Niacin is a vitamin, so it is completely safe.
    • by rtaylor ( 70602 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:30AM (#6684896) Homepage
      Niacin is a vitamin, so it is completely safe.

      Sure... Mercury is a natural mineral, so it is also completely safe to injest.
    • Re:Take Niacin (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:37AM (#6684964)
      Well, not completely safe.

      High intakes of niacin can cause:
      Liver Damage
      Severe Gastrointestinal Problems

      Moderate doses of niacin are excreted in our urine and so cause no harm. However, high doses of the vitamin used for treatment of diseases may expand the blood vessels, thereby resulting in rashes, itching and headaches. The condition may arise in connection with doses of only 10 mg, especially when they are taken on an empty stomach. The reaction can be unpleasant, but is otherwise harmless.

      High doses of niacin, more than 1,000 mg per day, consumed over a long period of time, are believed to produce side-effects like indigestion, stomach ulcers, liver problems and elevated blood concentration of uric acid and glucose. Most side-effects have been reported to arise in connection with daily doses in excess of 2,000 mg. Doses of less than 500 mg are generally considered harmless.
  • Oh, great.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BWJones ( 18351 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:18AM (#6684811) Homepage Journal
    Just what we need. Another fairly simple study looking at a supplement that has not been tested adequately. Anyone remember the problems folks had when they were rushing out to purchase tryptophan? What about all the people dropping melatonin like there is no tomorrow? (most melatonin is derived from bovine pineal glands.....ever hear of spongeoform encephalitis?)

    Look, the food supplements industry is not well regulated and thus the ingredients or amounts of active compounds in each of these supplements is not always known.

  • Vegetarians were used for the tests, mainly because meat in the diet is in itself a source of creatine...
    Does this mean that meat is actually, really, good for me? Oh god am I glad to hear this! 8-)

    Gives a new weight to me saying that being a vegetarian is dumb.

  • ... because I keep forgetting to go to the gym.
  • Hrrm, Mountain Dew must be loaded with the stuff, it certainly makes me smarter and stro...err wait.
  • smelling the future (Score:5, Informative)

    by yingjie ( 317272 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:22AM (#6684842) Homepage
    "Reports of gastrointestinal distress, stomach cramps, nausea and diarrhea are also frequently reported, especially during the loading phase when greater amounts of creatine are being ingested daily." (creatinemonohydrate.net)

    ugh, double the odor issues.
  • by GrEp ( 89884 )
    Since about Christmas of 2002 I decided that I wanted to start running half marathons, so I started following the Paleo Diet [paleodiet.com]. As part of it I had to about triple my meat intake to get sufficent calories in my diet. Also, I started taking a creatine supplement in low doses when I lift.

    I am a machine compared to where I was a year ago. My mood paterns have became much less eratic, I need less sleep, and my grades are much better. Last summer I might have read two books, and so far this summer I have tough
  • i'm thinking this may have more to do with the methane coming out the takers butt's than their actual body odor.

    creatine can do funny things to a persons intestines if they don't drink enough water.
  • Accepting article submissions from a pretty obvious (and known) troll, now are we?

    How long till the link redirects to goatse?

  • ...does this mean that calling someone a "meat-head" will now be complementing their intelligence?

    Now the athletes will have strength AND intelligence.... what is a nerd to do?!
  • Creatine -- (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jonsey ( 593310 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:25AM (#6684859) Journal
    Creatine's just an amino acid.

    Not one of the vital ones to life: ie, if you don't have it, your protiens will not all mis-fold / you will not degenerate into a corpse.

    Having WAYYY too much Creatine will help fuel bacterial growth & whatnot. Still, Creatine is a neat fuel, the body likes having it in muscle to fuel short-term bursts of energy.

    Interested in more about amino acids/proteins and what they can mean to you? Check out Folding@Home as mentioned on [stanford.edu] Slash_ [slashdot.org] _dot [slashdot.org]

    And fold for team #93 [short-media.com]
  • Note that the trial was done on vegetarians, as meat contains creatine and thus meat-eaters already get some in their diet. I can't see any tests done that suggest supplementing the dose has any significant affect for those of us that already get creatine from meat.
  • Something that is probably important to the Slashdot crowd--you'll gain about 10 lbs. of retained water in the first few weeks of taking it, and you will feel somewhat bloated. Yes, not only do I read Slashdot, but I also work out, and for approx. a year I tried Creatine. I'll be the first to say it does everything it advertises, but it also does a few things not necessarily on the label. So if you're going to sit in a chair all day, and take it, expect to pack on some more weight quick.
  • by dmouritsendk ( 321667 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:28AM (#6684880)
    When I worked out (stopped when I went back to school to finish up my degree) i ate a bunch of these. I cant say if i had any noticably change, since i was'nt paying attention to it. But, funnily enough this was the period i decided to go back to school.
  • by vorwerk ( 543034 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:31AM (#6684903)
    I'd be cautious before rushing out to get this one.

    See:

    Shopper's Drug Mart herbal info on Creatine [healthgate.com]

    Some snippets from this link:
    • "[T]here are some potential concerns with creatine. Because it is metabolized by the kidneys, fears have been expressed that creatine supplements could cause kidney injury, and there are two worrisome case reports"
    • "Another concern revolves around the fact that creatine is metabolized in the body to the toxic substance formaldehyde."
    • by maunleon ( 172815 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @12:40PM (#6687789)
      Uh.. Creatine is not a "herbal treatment", it's actually methyl guanidine-acetic acid. It is made up of three amino-acids, Arginine, Glycine and Methionine.

      You already have about 120g stored in your body, a little more or less depending on your weight, conditioning, and diet. 95% or so is in your muscles, with the rest in your brain, heart and testicles (I wonder what the research says about the latter one :)

      Creatine increases muscle size by supposedly pulling water into your muscles. And no, it will not happen without a good exercise program. Some claim water retention, but the retention happens in "all the right places". It also supposedly prevents the buildup of lactic acid in your muscles during strenous activity. Finally, it helps protein syntehsis.

      If you take too much, it get peed away as creatinine.

      Some chemical geek could probably explain the difference between the synthesized creatine (creatine monohydrate) and the one in your body (creatine phosphate)

      I have taken creatine for a little while, and I didn't notice a bad body odor (maybe because I wash :)..

  • Not real news (Score:5, Informative)

    by JCMay ( 158033 ) <JeffMayNO@SPAMearthlink.net> on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:34AM (#6684938) Homepage
    I read something similar to this in Muscle and Fitness [muscleandfitness.com] about a year ago, but the note there pertained to increased mental function in elderly men.

    As a personal note, I've used creatine monohydrate [muscleandfitness.com] powder off and on for about a year. I noticed somewhat increased lifting performance, but along with it a somewhat increased thirst. Be sure to drink *lots* of water if you take creatine [absolute-creatine.com]. I didn't notice any difference between a creatine/glycogen stack (CELL-TECH [muscletech.com]) versus using a plain creatine monohydrate powder mixed in water, execpt the stacked product was much more expensive.

    One thing to remember that merely taking a supplement (other than anabolic steriods) is not going to make you look like this guy [bodybuilding.com]. Athletic use of creatine delays the onset of muscle fatigue by enhancing the resynthesis of ATP from ADP and creatine phosphate. In other words, it allows you to do a little more work, a little faster than you could without it. It's a subtle, but measureable effect.
    • by Civil_Disobedient ( 261825 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @09:14AM (#6685331)
      I believe Creatine also increases the amount of cellular water retention, but that once you stop taking it everything goes back to "normal". I also used Cell-Tech's Creatine mix, and concur with your statement that you should drink extra water.

      People should understand that taking supplements doesn't gives you muscles. The only thing that increases muscle mass is your body repairing damaged muscle tissue. That's why you lift weights. If you've ever done bar-dips, you probably know the tingling feeling of micro-muscle tears. Supplements, steroids, it's all for the same purpose: to enable you to better wear out your muscles. Of course, people are always looking for shortcuts, often to their detriment (in the case of steroids), yet overlook some of the most basic and essential needs the body requires.

      This is why sleep and diet are so crucial to muscle development. A proper diet, particularly one rich in protein, not only gives you the right building blocks for new muscle material, but also gives you energy when you're working out. Sleep is just as important, because it is during sleep (not during exercise) that your body repairs itself and rebuilds muscle. I've seen too many people work out every day, and then stay up late into the evening, complaining that they aren't seeing any results. They simply never give their body a chance to heal before they're breaking it down again in the gym.

      Sorry for the fitness diatrabe, I just thought I'd add my two cents for anyone interested.
  • by sirgoran ( 221190 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:41AM (#6685016) Homepage Journal
    ...I'll be smarter, but smell like a goat.

    Let's look at this for a moment.
    By being smarter and having a better memory, I'll do better at work, and there by get a better/more raises with which to buy a bigger house, more geek toys, and possibly make me attractive to women, and the only drawback is I'll smell like ass.

    I guess I can forget those penis enlargement pills I keep getting mail about and go with this.

    With all that extra money I'll be making, I'll just spend a little of it on some cologne.

    -Goran
  • by wawannem ( 591061 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @08:47AM (#6685058) Homepage
    I am reading the threads above and I find it really amusing that everyone I have read so far mentions a bad experience (or a geek-BO joke). It seems many people believe creatine will just make you bigger. I am just as much as a geek as everyone here, but I grew up very athletic and all of my childhood friends have grown up to become Physical Therapists, Physical Trainers, etc. And, since I finished college (where I was captain of the wrestling team [which makes it hard for people to believe I am a geek]), I have been keeping in decent shape so that I can get the ladies.

    Creatine does not provide strength the way steroids do, if you are looking for that kind of work out, I would suggest Andro supplements. IIRC, this is what Mark Maquire was taking that got him in trouble. The problem with Andro is that even though it is legal it has the same side effects as typical anabolic steroids (acne, shrinking testicles, etc.).

    Creatine is a complex amino acid that gets called upon as your fast twitch muscle fibers get closer to failure. For people who lift, these are the portion of the muscle that will grow if exercised properly. Your muscle fibers are torn or damaged during the workout, and rebuilt over the next few days. Your body will re-build these muscles much stronger than before, and in most cases, larger than before. The critical phase of the workout is the tearing of the fibers. When your body is properly loaded with creatine, it will allow you to go a little further than normally possible to tear down more than normal, which is when you will benefit the most. Creatine is a tricky supplement though, it is difficult to get your body to deliver it on ingestion. I've heard many times that insulin has something to do with it and most supplements suggest ingesting it with a natural fruit drink (grape juice, etc.). and it also suggests a loading phase for a week where you are taking a ton of the stuff.

    I have used creatine off and on for quite a while, and I can say that my strength is slightly improved during periods when taking it, but if you are looking for size, the protein supplements are more important. The BO part is hard for me to understand, since people are suggested to take creatine about 30 minutes before your workout. Doesn't everyone shower after their workout? This has always been my routine, maybe that's why I have never heard of the BO. To me the bigger problem has always been that protein rich foods, as well as the protein supplements, make your breath smell and give you gas.

    I guess what I am saying is that there is no easy way to get fit and look good. And I also understand that it just isn't a priority to everyone. So be it, but don't give a half-assed try to some supplement and then bitch because it didn't work the way you wanted. The first thing people need to learn is that you need to get a good workout above all else. These supplements only work if you are already getting a good workout without them, they do not turn a bad workout into a good one, they only turn a good workout into a better one.

    /W
  • by gatkinso ( 15975 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @09:35AM (#6685529)

    How long did it take them to figure this out?
  • by Mark_in_Brazil ( 537925 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @09:45AM (#6685625)
    IMPORTANT: as the article states, people who eat red meat already get creatine from that source. Creatine supplementation is most interesting for people who exercise regularly and don't eat red meat.
    It's interesting that the sub-headline of the article says "The dietary supplement creatine - known to improve athletic performance..."
    I seem to recall seeing in the 1990s reports of studies showing that creatine did indeed improve athletic performance. My own experience was different.
    In the mid-1990s, I was basically following the recommendations of the US government: loads of carbohydrates, reasonable quantities of protein, and very, very little fat. I avoided red meat and ate a lot more chicken and turkey breast meat.
    I would go to the gym twice per week and train with high intensity. I discovered that even with the massive quantities of food I was eating and the decent amount of sleep I was getting (being a grad student at the time, I had a very flexible schedule... as a result, it was almost always possible to correct any sleep deficit with a nap), my body simply could not recuperate in less time.
    The personal trainers at the gym had, I'm sure, the best intentions when they designed workout programs for me, but the problem is that the programs they designed would have been good for two types of person: the genetically gifted and users of 'roids (I don't think it's a coincidence that many personal trainers fit into one of these two categories). For a normal human being, it just isn't possible for the body to recover from three days of exercise in one day (they typically designed programs of the type "three days of training and one day of rest").
    Anyway, since I wasn't eating red meat, I thought I could benefit from creatine supplementation. What did I find? Well, I can summarize it like this: if creatine were as effective as a bodybuilding supplement as it is as a laxative, I would be as big now as the next Governor of California.
    In my experience, creatine just made my poop (much) softer and gave it a funny color. No, I don't make a habit of checking out the contents of the toilet, but the color was so weird it caught my eye and I started paying attention. I know this is disgusting, but I am simply telling a true story.

    I eventually quit creatine and designed a workout program based on the book "Brawn," i.e., on lots of squats as the main exercise and on increasing the weight lifted each time at the gym, and focused on building strength, not size. I got a lot stronger, and I gained a significant amount of muscle weight.
    In my experience, a good workout program that did not force overtraining (unlike most that personal trainers at gyms will create for you) and done with sufficient intensity (gawd how my thighs used to burn toward the end of a set of 20 squats with a bar 1.5 times the weight of my body) had a much greater effect on my strength than my use or non-use of creatine did.

    In 2000, I came to the conclusion that it was kind of stupid for me to put so much effort into fighting nature. If my body were meant to be larger and more muscular, it would be that way naturally, without me having to destroy it every 3 or 4 days. I haven't done any weightlifting in years, and I haven't even thought about wasting money on creatine in several years.

    FWIW, I don't remember feeling smarter during my experimentation with creatine. My immediate guess is that creatine is as effective as a "smart drug" as it is as a bodybuilding supplement, i.e., not very.

    YMMV.

    --Mark
  • by 0111 1110 ( 518466 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @10:08AM (#6685932)
    I am surprised that no one has mentioned the alleged protective effect [bbc.co.uk] creatine may have for concussions and head injuries. Most of you will probably think this will never happen to you. I did, which is why I wasn't wearing that bike helmet.

    Taking creatine could prevent you from diminished mental capacity and memory problems after suffering some kind of accidental fall. The brain is quite a bit more soft and fragile [uams.edu] than most people like to believe. It usually makes people uncomfortable to realize that the brain has a consistency not unlike jello [mcphee.com], and that the neural (axonal) connections are surprisingly easy to disrupt permanently with a sudden deceleration or impact. It is also possible that minor shocks to the head can accumulate over the years resulting in subtly reduced memory abilities, although there is no direct evidence for this.
  • by skintigh2 ( 456496 ) on Wednesday August 13, 2003 @12:22PM (#6687578)
    This is a perfect example of lunacy in science reporting.

    A test is performed. One group has creatine in their diet, the other has none in their diet (vegetarians)

    The result shows that "creatine good, no creatine bad."

    The reporter then reports "more creatine better."

    Besides the fact that there is absolutly no evidence whatsoever to back up that claim, the reporter also extrapolates the affect on vegetarians to non vegitarians. On top of that, a single study is taken as gospel.

    What's the difference between a preliminary study and an old wive's tale? The old wive's tale has history behind it.

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