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Biotech Science

Petri Dish Babies, 25 Years Later 286

Posted by michael from the GTCA dept.
bl8n8r writes ""You can't buy a baby in the United States," said Caplan. "... But you can buy the sperm, you can buy the egg and you can rent the uterus." So, what I want to know is if it's cheaper than my current apartment, and if utilities are included :D" See also a good story about IVF in the Mercury News.
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Petri Dish Babies, 25 Years Later More

Petri Dish Babies, 25 Years Later

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  • Becoming more common every day (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TopShelf ( 92521 ) * on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:23PM (#6535098) Homepage Journal
    The NY Times also ran an article recently about the topic, that included an interesting statistic: IVF babies now account for 1% of all births in the U.S. I was genuinely surprised that it was that large a portion.

    As the proud papa of IVF twins born last year, I've got to say it's an amazing process. Of course, as the male, that's easier to say. I didn't have to go through 100+ injections and get stuck with a foot-long needle to have eggs extracted, only to then get to go through pregnancy!

    • Re:Becoming more common every day (Score:5, Interesting)

      by woodsnick ( 628525 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:30PM (#6535174)
      Agreed, After me neither of my parents were able to have kids but wanted to have more of their own. My sister (now 16) was a GIFT (Gamete Intrafallopian Transfer) [child.org.uk] baby and my brother (now 11) was In Vitro [ivf.com] and actually frozen for a year before he was implanted. Both are now doing great. I know that there are many children out there waiting to be adopted which is another great option for parents that want children, but I do believe that modern infertility are amazing and worth looking into if you really want to have a child of your own and are unable to. Be warned however, the process is not cheap.
    • as multiple birth are a lot more frequent with IVF, doesn't that skew the statistics?
      Was it the number of births (including multiple) or the number of born children ?(considering that twins are 2 childrens, but 1 birth)

    • two sides to the story (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mblase ( 200735 )
      Of course, as the male, that's easier to say. I didn't have to go through 100+ injections and get stuck with a foot-long needle to have eggs extracted, only to then get to go through pregnancy!

      This is true enough. My wife went through two (failed) IVF procedures, and it's no picnic. Hormone injections mess up a woman's emotions something fierce. Overproduction of eggs can be moderately painful, as can the harvesting of those eggs (anesthetic be darned). Implantation is fairly straightforward, but then she
    • As the proud papa of IVF twins born last year

      Hey! Me too!

      I joke that giving bith to twins didn't hurt me a bit, but the first time I gave my wife an injection, she slapped me because it hurt her. :)

      Congrats on your twins -- I feel incredibly lucky every day to have mine.

    • I didn't have to go through 100+ injections and get stuck with a foot-long needle to have eggs extracted, only to then get to go through pregnancy!

      Count yourself lucky, dude. One of my friends had such an abysmally low sperm count that they had to extract the sperm with needles from the testicles.

      You're right, though, in that IVF involves weeks and sometimes months of injections, both subcutaneous and intramuscular, for the woman. That the injections sometimes involve hormones which cause wild mood

  • interesting.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by inteller ( 599544 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:25PM (#6535112)
    .....you can rent a uterus, but it is illegal most places to rent a vagina.....so I guess that means renting the uterus grants you vagina flyover rights? otherwise how are yo ugoing to get there?

  • This space for rent (Score:5, Funny)

    by HopeUnknown ( 668633 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:25PM (#6535118) Homepage Journal
    "...you can rent the uterus."

    Don't waste your time, they are only offering a 9 month lease.

  • Well... (Score:5, Funny)

    by da3dAlus ( 20553 ) <dustin.grau@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:27PM (#6535131) Homepage Journal
    "So, what I want to know is if it's cheaper than my current apartment"
    That depends if it's a womb with a view.
    BA-DUM-CHA!

  • Utilities (Score:3, Funny)

    by Ngeran ( 31568 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:27PM (#6535142) Homepage
    So, what I want to know is if it's cheaper than my current apartment, and if utilities are included

    Yep, the utilities are included, but the plumbing tends to leak a lot for the first couple years.
  • A Womb With A View

  • ObWeirdAl (Score:4, Funny)

    by soulsteal ( 104635 ) <(soulsteal) (at) (3l337.org)> on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:28PM (#6535153) Homepage
    I Think I'm A Clone Now

    Isn't it strange
    Feels like I'm lookin' in the mirror
    What would people say
    If only they knew that I was

    Part of some geneticist's plan (plan-plan-plan)
    Born to be a carbon copy man (man-man-man)
    There in a petri dish late one night
    They took a donor's body cell and fertilized a human egg and so I say

    I think I'm a clone now
    There's always two of me just a-hangin' around
    I think I'm a clone now
    'Cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down.....

  • This is going to cause trouble... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:30PM (#6535176)
    I think this is going to cause trouble later on. If two people can't get pregnant on their own, there's a reason for it. It's the gene pools way of saying you're not supposed to re-produce. (aka Darwinism)

    By overriding this mechanism in nature you create a child of inferior genetic make up who would no otherwise be by natural process. I think this is going to bite us in the ass in a few generations.

    While I'm sure it's nice for the parents (yay! we had a baby! look at the odds we've overcome!) I think it's unfair to create a child that may have genetic defects / other problems because of their parent's own selfishness.

    • Re:This is going to cause trouble... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by no reason to be here ( 218628 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:41PM (#6535276) Homepage
      There are plenty of people out there who are perfectly genetically healthy human beings, who through no fault of there own, are unable to reproduce naturally. Some people are adversely affected by chemicals in the environment, making it difficult to conceive a child, others (like some women who have had abortions) are not able to either. There are still others who can't for any multitude of reasons that are not part of the equation of the traditional Darwinian notion of natural selection.

      Now then, maybe these people ought to just adopt, but I don't think they should be prevented from attempting to have their "own" offspring if they are willing to put up the time and money neccesary.
      • It's fairly obvious, by now, that humanity is no longer at a point where natural selection, in the genetic sense of the term, applies.

        People who possess survival advantages don't tend to breed more. Almost any survival-limiting problem (problems controlling weight, respiratory problems, bad joints, whatever) are corrected or otherwise overcome via modern medicine, at least to the extent that you can still generally find someone to bear children with you, if you're so inclined.

        Also, the majority of evoluti
        • It was never really survival of the fittest, it has always been reproduciton of the fittest...

          It is just that now it is social skills that make you fit rather than physical ones. Darwinism still applies...
        • >> It's fairly obvious, by now, that humanity is no longer at a point where natural selection, in the genetic sense of the term, applies.

          And natural selection isn't helping the human race get any smarter either... just look at all the bright people here on Slashdot that don't have a hope in hell of getting a date, much less reproduce!

          q:]

          MadCow.
      • For the price of IVF, they can probably afford adoption too. Another post quoted one cylce of IVF treatment as costing more than $12,000
    • That is an interesting thought that I have pondered several times...

      My conclusion was different though. The requirements for being 'fit' have changed, it is becoming less and less your physicality that makes you fit, and more and more your intelligence and interpersonal skills...

      Personally, I have at least two genetic problems (psoriasis and oversized knee caps), but in today's society the psoriasis does not hinder me much, because of modern medicine, and the knee caps, well, they haven't kept me from do
    • To an extent the infertility rate is artificially high becuase of the number of women in the last 30 years that have chosen birth control pills and a career over having children at a young and healthy age. Many are later finding that they are unable to have children because they are too old. This kind of infertility is not due to bad genes, rather it is nature shutting off the reproductive cycle because at an advanced age there is likely to be either damage to the existing eggs in a womans body or a lack
    • There are plenty of non-genetic causes of infertility. Endometriosis, and prior surgery can play roles in a womans ability to conceive. Neither are necessarily genetic, so your Darwinism theory holds maybe 30% water, leaving a lot of room for 'unexplained infertility'.

      Either way, eggs and sperm used for IUI/IVF undergo testing for genetic defects, so I could argue that babies concieved via either of these methods are more likely lower the rate of birth disorders. Plenty of preliminary tests are run to dete
    • I think it's unfair to create a child that may have genetic defects / other problems because of their parent's own selfishness.

      A not-uncommon opinion (troll dynamics notwithstanding). But by that same argument, you should consider it equally unfair to treat babies for birth defects or medical conditions acquired by any means. Or older children. Or adults, for that matter. It should also be "unfair" for parents to practice contraception, since it's a manifestation of their selfish desire to have sex withou

    • Re:This is going to cause trouble... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary&yahoo,com> on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:31PM (#6535713) Journal
      Over the years, evolution has come up with many interesting adaptations for overcoming it's own limitations. In the beginning, there was no nucleus, DNA didn't coil up, and it didn't have a protective coating. All these things evolved to cope with genetic damage and miscopying.

      Now evolution has come up with an even more powerful adaptation for correcting it's own mistakes: human intelligence. Why throw it out?
    • This is actually somewhat of a misconception.

      IANAD, but I've consulted with a highly respected fertility doctor on this topic.

      Although there is a somewhat higher chance for 'complications' with IVF than other forms of pregnancy, that is most heavily influenced by the age of the mother, and the effect of natural radiation on the genetic matierial in the egg, since they've all been around as long as the woman has been alive.

      If the egg is donated, the complication rate is controlled by the age of the woman

    • Re:This is going to cause trouble... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by heli0 ( 659560 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:55PM (#6535888)
      "If two people can't get pregnant on their own, there's a reason for it."

      Like they had chemotherapy as children to treat cancer and are now sterile? You know Lance Armstrong became sterile after chemo for testicular cancer? Luckily he had sperm stored just in case and now has a son Luke because of IVF.

    • By overriding this mechanism in nature you create a child of inferior genetic make up who would no otherwise be by natural process.

      Says whom? And where is your degree from?

      Firstly, there is no evidence that IVF children are genetically inferior, period. Instead, "the consensus is that there is no increased anomaly rate in IVF. In fact, the anomaly rates are lower than recorded in birth defects surveillance programs. Irrespective, U.S. studies have never shown an increase in anomalies following IVF. [216.239.57.104]"

  • Interesting IVF facts (Score:5, Informative)

    by Alton_Brown ( 577453 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:31PM (#6535178)
    More interesting facts...
    • The size of a human egg is approximately 0.15 mm in diameter. That is about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.
    • The size of a human sperm is approximately 0.004 mm in diameter.
    • Infertility affects 6.1 million American women and their partners, about 10% of the reproductive age population.
    • Infertility is a disease of the reproductive system that affects the male or female with almost equal frequency.
    • Fewer than 5% of infertile couples in treatment actually use IVF. IVF is usually the treatment of choice for a woman with blocked, severely damaged, or absent fallopian tubes. IVF is also used to circumvent infertility caused by endometriosis or a male factor. Many programs also use IVF to treat couples with unexplained infertility of long duration who have failed with other infertility treatments.
    • IVF is a method of assisted reproduction in which the man's sperm and the woman's egg (oocyte) are combined in a laboratory dish, where fertilization occurs. The resulting embryo is then transferred to the uterus to develop naturally. Usually, two to four embryos are transferred with each cycle.
    • According to the latest statistics, the success rate for IVF is 29.4% deliveries per egg retrieval. This success rate is similar to the 20% chance that a healthy, reproductively normal couple has of achieving a pregnancy that results in a live born baby in any given month.
    • Women under 35, without male factor, who try IVF, have on average a 25% chance of conceiving and having a baby. Some clinics achieve even better results.
    • Success with IVF increases with the number of cycles attempted up to four cycles.
    • Of the 82% of pregnancies as a result of IVF that result in a live birth, about 63% are singletons, 32% are twins, and 5% are triplets or more.
    • Studies suggest that ICSI and in vitro fertilization are safe technologies. A recent study covered nearly 1,000 children conceived through these methods in five European countries and found that the children, measured from birth to age 5, were as healthy as children conceived naturally. While other studies have found a slightly increased risk of genetic defects and gene-imprinting disorders in children conceived through ART, more research needs to be done to determine the risks and the processes by which this might occur.
    • IVF was successfully used for the first time in the United States in 1981. Since then, more than 114,000 babies in the US have been born as a result of the technique.
    • One cycle of IVF costs an average of $12,400.
      IVF has reduced the number of tubal surgeries by 50%.
    • In other news, hundreds of thousands/millions of orphans and unwanted children continue to populate the Earth.

      Money spent on IVF could be used to help them.

      Egomaniacal yuppies continue to satisfy their own selfish desires. It's all about them. Never about the kids.

      Meanwhile, anti-abortion activists continue to have the lowest adoption rates in the world.

      Call me a troll, but I bring up some valid points worth discussing. These are the issues I never see discussed but would like to see an open and frank d
      • "Meanwhile, anti-abortion activists continue to have the lowest adoption rates in the world."

        Really? I looked for some statistics about this but couldn't find any. Can you post a source? I am anti-abortion/pro-life (or whatever the PC term is these days). My wife and I are currently looking into adoption. From what I understand, it's costly and not as easy as it looks, we'll probably end up adopting from outside the US.
        • Though not scientific at any rate, all the people I know who are adopted were adopted by people who are pro-life. I to would like to see where these stastics are from.

          FYI: I've known ~10 people who were adopted. I say ~ becuase some of the families had a mix of adopted and non-adopted children, so I'm not sure on the numbers.

      • Re:Interesting IVF facts (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Eccles ( 932 )
        Money spent on IVF could be used to help [the millions of unwanted children]

        So could the money spent on CDs, DVDs, video games, dining out, Rolexes, Jimmy Choos, bigger houses, Hummers -- you name it. Heck, IVF is only a fraction of the cost of raising a child -- why pick on IVFers?

        Egomaniacal yuppies continue to satisfy their own selfish desires.

        Unlike everyone else, selfless humanitarians all.
      • You make two claims that really don't sit very well with eachother.

        (1)In other news, hundreds of thousands/millions of orphans and unwanted children continue to populate the Earth.
        (2)Egomaniacal yuppies continue to satisfy their own selfish desires. It's all about them. Never about the kids.

        Presumably in (1) you are talking about the problem of unwanted children, yet in (2) you are denigrating the desire of many people to have, and raise, their own children. Of course some unwanted children are actually

    • One cycle of IVF costs an average of $12,400.00.

      US$12.5K in the USA you mean.

      In New Zealand, an IVF cycle is NZ$5K -- which is more like US$3K.

      Did your state legislature ship your job overseas with the high cost of medical benefits? Well, now you can ship your fertility specialist's job overseas by having your IVF in New Zealand!

  • Nova's coverage (Score:5, Informative)

    by ajs ( 35943 ) <ajs.ajs@com> on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:34PM (#6535213) Homepage Journal
    Nova [pbs.org] recently had a great episode about IVF [pbs.org] and other techniques. Some of it was actually kind of scary, like the tech in a fertility clinic who explained why multiple births are so common. His take was that it's all market pressure. If women look at the statistics for a fertility clinic, they will see that some percentage of all IVFs resulted in birth. Well, if you cram 5 viable eggs back in, instead of 2, you *are* more likely to get multiples, but you're also less likely to damage your success record in terms of viable implantations....
    • Well, if you cram 5 viable eggs back in, instead of 2, you *are* more likely to get multiples, but you're also less likely to damage your success record in terms of viable implantations.

      It's not really about the doctor's success record. According to our doctor, the likelyhood of any implantation "taking" and becoming a full-term baby is about one in four, even when conception occurs naturally. Normally they'll implant four or five and give the parents the option of aborting any multiple "takes".

      When you'

    • Re:Nova's coverage (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TopShelf ( 92521 ) *
      I think that's an attitude that's changing over time. Due to the publicity around many super-multiple births due to assisted fertility treatments, when it comes to IVF, the standard practice in the US is to implant no more than 3 embryos.

      Interestingly, though, there was a lady in Indianapolis last year who had 3 embryos implanted, and ended up having quads - one embryo split into identical twins!
    • My wife and I went through IVF with the best in North Texas. [embryo.net] In the words of our obstetrician, "The Doody's can get a rock pregnant."

      One of the things that I find interesting in looking at their statistics is that the number of embryos they implant every year has gone down. My wife and I did three cycles, two in 2001 and one in 2002. In each instance, they implanted two embryos. (Our first cycle failed, our second resulted in one baby and one miscarriage, and our third attempt resulted in a pair of fra

  • > You can't buy a baby in the United States," said Caplan. "... But you can buy the sperm, you can buy the egg and you can rent the uterus."

    ...at $5000/year in a call center in Bangalore, but spend all the money and hassle doing that, when it's cheaper, and all of us horny nerds are happy to download our pr0n and, uh... telecommute? :)

    Hey, Slashdot editors, it's another dupe!

  • Test tube baby (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kongjie ( 639414 )
    I was a teenager when this was pioneered. The popular term for this procedure has always seemed odd to me. As kids, the first thing that occured to us was that there were embryos growing in test tubes, waiting to be harvested.

    I also think the initial public reaction was much along those lines, how it was something unholy and a Frankensteinian perversion of natural conception.

    We've come a certain distance, I guess, but I won't say a long way, I don't think.

  • IVT et al. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by aliens ( 90441 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:36PM (#6535241) Homepage Journal
    They're all great, and I'm happy for those parents who couldn't have children otherwise.

    But, has the number of couples that can't have children gone up? It always worried me. Am I just being paranoid?

    Also these procedures are not cheap! That money could really change an orphan's life...
    • I think what you're seeing falls under a couple categories:

      1) since these technologies have become available, people who might have just given up and assumed they can't have kids are coming forward and getting help, and

      2) the procedures (beyond IVF) are improving over time so that they can help a broader class of infertility...
    • But, has the number of couples that can't have children gone up?

      The number of people who are diagnosed with fertility problems has gone up, but there is some debate about the causes [boston.com]. One of the more obvious reasons for the rise in the diagnosis of infertility is that people are starting families later in life.

      Also these procedures are not cheap! That money could really change an orphan's life...

      Raising a child at all in a developed country is not cheap. For the price of raising 1 in a developed nation

  • Check out Wired (Score:4, Informative)

    by Flamed to a Crisp ( 688872 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:38PM (#6535259)

    In the August issue of Wired [wired.com] magazine, there was quite a disgusting infoporn about how you could sell your body for $46 million. It priced egg cells at $7,000/egg and sperm at $75/donation.

  • Some of us cling to the older ways (Score:4, Funny)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:41PM (#6535281) Journal
    I have sex with women, you insensitive clod!

  • what about adoption (Score:2, Insightful)

    by joFFeman ( 574971 )
    god knows there are plenty of kids who need homes, and while there's that certain [stupid] ego-stroking factor of having a kid born in [about half of] your genetic image, what about... you know- doing something good for someone who NEEDS it rather than contributing to the overpopulation problem?

    • Re:what about adoption (Score:4, Interesting)

      by praksys ( 246544 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:27PM (#6535685)
      ...rather than contributing to the overpopulation problem...

      In countries where this kind of technology gets used most often there is no over-population problem. Most industrialized nations have declining populations [csmonitor.com], and the world as a whole may well have a declining population quite soon.

      ...and while there's that certain [stupid] ego-stroking factor of having a kid...

      I think it's great that some people are willing to take on the difficult task of raising other people's children, but I also think it is sad when the natural desire to raise one's own children is denigrated as stupid, selfish, or perverse.

    • You seem to have forgotten that the entire point of having children is to pass on your genes. It is not egotism at all. It is hard-wired survival instints.

  • I admit, i'm a sick puppy. (Score:5, Funny)

    by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:52PM (#6535403) Homepage Journal
    When I was a kid, sex education was fascinating. So was masturbation. So was my Jr. Scientists microscope.

    Let me put it another way, i've seen my own sperm.

  • Conception terminology (Score:5, Funny)

    by dr_dank ( 472072 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:57PM (#6535440) Homepage Journal
    If a baby is conceived by IVF, they're called test tube babies.

    If a baby is conceived after drunken passion, then could it be called a beer bottle baby?

  • What's happening? (Score:4, Funny)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:01PM (#6535474) Homepage

    "Still more Sex.com"
    "Petri Dish Babies, 25 Years Later"

    For crying out loud, what's happening to slashdot??!

    Oh wait...
    "Laptops for warm climates"
    Much better :)

  • My last apartment was soooo small...

    Nah. Too easy.

  • From the Mercury News article:

    It's worth remembering that first reaction, because some people are trying to rewrite the history. Faced with public opposition to cloning and ```designer babies,'' commentators frequently say that we'll get used to them, pointing to the public's turnaround to embrace in-vitro fertilization. In fact, the public reaction at the time was fascination and approval. A Gallup poll showed that by late 1978 a stunning 93 percent of Americans were aware of the ``test-tube baby,'' whi

  • ah, perhaps that is where I acquired my taste for agar.

    *yum*
  • If you live there for life it's cheaper. But it's cramped.
  • I read an article commenting that the length of time that fetilized eggs can exist in vitro before they're inserted into the uterus is lengthening. The same article mentioned that the amount a child can be prematurely born and still saved is lengthening. It then asked the question: What happens when these two things meet?

    Would it be ethical to have children (made) and not undergo pregnancy?

    One idea was that if this were common, egg/sperm freezing and sterilization might be a typical approach to contrac

  • mod me down now... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) * on Friday July 25, 2003 @08:40PM (#6537185) Homepage
    Call me crazy, but it seems a lot better to adopt a child than go to all of this trouble. In fact it seems downright selfish that one would rather spend tons of money rather than adopt a child that already exists. It seems so selfish that I might go so far as to argue that perhaps this desire that the child must be mine mine mine might go so far as to make people bad parents due to the fact that they are so slefish thinking of thier own needs and wants and are unable to love a child just becuse it doe snot have their DNA.
    Now before I'm modded as a troll. Tell me, why isn't it selfish? Why is the idea of adoption so repellant that one would rather go through such effort to create a child?

    • Re:mod me down now... (Score:5, Informative)

      by bourne ( 539955 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @09:58PM (#6537539)

      Call me crazy, but it seems a lot better to adopt a child than go to all of this trouble.

      Have you ever looked into the adoption process to see what's involved? From your comment above, I seriously doubt it.

      Let's see... with IVF you're looking at $10-12k for a child (paid for by insurance in a small minority of US states) which has a genetic relation to you, where the odds are very high that pregnancy will result in birth, where you can breastfeed (which has significant advantages over formula, marketing to the contrary), where you get to bond and care for it from day 1. In the other corner, adoption costs $25-$35k and can take two or three years. There is a significant possiblity that that you can be all ready to adopt when the birth mother changes her mind - or that she can change her mind after you've taken the baby, in some states. Or, with foreign babies, you might have to adopt a 6-month old because its home country requires it stay in an orphanage for 6 months before being adopted, meaning that you miss the most important bonding period. And you may or may not know what drugs, alcohol, or smoke the baby was exposed to in utero. And, for all you know, the parents are dumb as a post and ugly as bricks.

      In fact it seems downright selfish that one would rather spend tons of money rather than adopt a child that already exists. It seems so selfish that I might go so far as to argue that perhaps this desire that the child must be mine mine mine might go so far as to make people bad parents due to the fact that they are so slefish thinking of thier own needs and wants and are unable to love a child just becuse it doe snot have their DNA.

      Based on this, I gather that NOT ONLY have you not been involved in one of these decisions, you don't know any parents of IVF children. I know many, and I have never ever met one who was as narcissistic as you describe; most of them quite the opposite.

      Now before I'm modded as a troll.

      You're not a troll, you're just making uninformed suppositions.

      Why is the idea of adoption so repellant that one would rather go through such effort to create a child?

      It isn't repellent. But it has a number of disadvantages relative to IVF, which makes IVF a rational choice for many people. There are a lot of selfish behaviors in the modern world - IVF is not one of them. It involves pain and sacrifice and courage that people who haven't done it can't imagine.

    • Re:mod me down now... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gr66nman ( 636071 )

      There are many factors that contribute to a woman wanting to go through fertility treatment besides wanting "their own DNA." Such as the experience of pregnancy and giving birth. Also, there's more control over the prenatal process than through adoption. You can control how much alcohol you drink, how much you smoke, how much crack you do, etc. With adoption, you are at the whim of the birth mother.

      My wife and I are currently proceeding with adopting a child after unsuccessful infertility treatments (we di

  • Uncle Bonsai [unclebonsai.com]
    Lyrics [yellowtailrecords.com]

    Womb for Rent

    Womb for rent _ _ _ Womb with a view _ _ _ Nonsmokers womb _ _ _ For one or two _ _ _ No pets allowed _ _ _ No alcohol _ _ _ No questions asked _ _ _ No southern drawl _ _ _ A private door _ _ _ Come as you are Like father did _ _ _ In a glass bell jar _ _ _ Womb with a heart _ _ _ Waterfront home _ _ _ Old world charm _ _ _ For chromosomes _ _ _ Christian types _ _ _ Who bends the rules _ _ _ Don't quote the Pope _ _ _ About genepools

    When the bough breaks _ _ _

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