Mars Flier Prototype 99
SEWilco writes "BBC News reports that a full-scale prototype of a Mars flier will be built. The ARES glider will unfold in midair for a mission which may cover 850 km (528 miles). I wonder if its huge wings would allow it to be tossed back in the air by a storm in that thin air, although probably not by "winds of a few m/sec"."
Re:You Amateur. (Score:2)
Here we go (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Here we go (Score:1)
1 m/s ~= 197 ft/s
Link to ARES (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Link to ARES (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Link to ARES (Score:1)
great concept (Score:3, Funny)
Let's face it, satellites only get you so much resolution (look at the recent US military campaign)... drones and gliders have the potential to give us better pictures.
I just hope they do some rarefied atmosphere wind-tunnel testing; would be embarassing to have this thing plunge to the surface because someone was expecting an earthlike atmosphere...
Yeah, yeah, I know they'll test for it... but after that supposed metric/englis
Re:great concept (Score:2)
Re:Link to ARES (Score:1)
patriotic design (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, must be meant to frighten marsian terrorists. Anyway, should it fail and drop to the ground like a stone it may still serve to claim all of the mars as an us colony.
~dp
Re:tiptoe advancements (Score:5, Interesting)
More pertinant to this particular mission, though, and intersting in regard to the general debate, is the point that in this instance, we are looking at an unmanned mission with capabilities in fact different, not just lesser, than those of a manned mission. Certainly there is much valuable information to be gained from a manned mission that a glider will not provide, but by the same token, this mission will provide greater mobility and a larger sampling of the planet than any traditional manned (or unmanned) missions can.
While we all want to see manned missions, at the same time we must realize that pragmatically, unmanned missions often have not only more for the money, but more in and of themselves to contribute.
Re:tiptoe advancements (Score:1)
What it can do (Score:5, Informative)
Bubba's Opinion (Score:1)
Re:What it can do (Score:1)
Re:Strange Martian Gravity (SMG) (Score:1)
Perhaps the leftists don't carry as much weight there? Maybe it needs to be striped of its stars? Wonder what mars the balance.
m/sec? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:m/sec? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:m/sec? (Score:1)
Re:m/sec? (Score:2)
BTW: a balloon wouldn't be that bad of an idea... I think that mars' atmosphere is something like what we find at around 60~100thousand feet. We've already got balloons that can do the same on earth, so mars should be possible too.
What's the price? (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow. If this succeeds, there'll be "space plane(s)" on Mars by 2008. I'm extremely curious what the required budget is for this project. Anyone know? 10 million USD? 100 million USD?
Re:What's the price? (Score:1)
14 billion might sound like a lot, but it's not.
Re:What's the price? (Score:2)
W00t. They'll take this out of your allowance, For real.
Nice journal, btw.
Why not a mars pathfinder (Score:3, Insightful)
With the lack of clouds, I think a pathfinder, like the two that NASA created, could be possible. A pathfinder would work well in that low gravity, despite the air density, and we could have a continuous stream of data forever (Or till the pathfinder warranty expires). They should ideally have highres cams pointing downwards for high res ground pictures and could occasionally swoop real low and detect moisture and other chemicals.
Heck they could release many pathfinders in the atmosphere, let em interconnect with long wave radio, and allow them to provide GPS-like location radio for ground machines. If they could act like ipv6 routers between themselves, we would have a mars internet started with ipv6 from ground up.. aliens would be tempted to login and try to crack the pentagon honeypots. Who wants the domain internic.mars?
Re:Why not a mars pathfinder (Score:1, Informative)
But you have to take into account that the luminosity on Mars is around 40% of that on Earth, and solar panels are likely to collect dust as well. also, it is supposed that there are violent winds blowing on Mars.
Re:Why not a mars pathfinder (Score:3, Interesting)
Such a pathfinder would be released from a spacecraft and wouldnt need landing gears or booster batteries for takeoff, that should kill more weigh
an older prototype (Score:4, Interesting)
Can't wait to see the pics... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Can't wait to see the pics... (Score:2, Flamebait)
This isn't funny. It's just antiamerican.
If that's all it takes to get a +1 funny, then yeah. I'll get a +1 funny, one day.
Re:Can't wait to see the pics... (Score:1)
Re:Can't wait to see the pics... (Score:2)
2. Freedom, including that of speech, is one of the things America (should) hold most dear.
2a. America is a democracy, at least so believed, but as a democracy, it is ok to disagree with others, including your leader. Hell, you can work towards replacing him with yourself going through the proper channels.
So you see, he is funny. Your observation is wrong.
using air currents to regain altitude (Score:4, Interesting)
Second problem and a major one, is the control system. Developing algorythms to read atmospheric conditions to find sources of rising air would be very difficult to say the least. That's why we don't have cars that drive themselves. it's hard to design the control and sensing algorythms. You'd have to use thermals or ridge lift to gain altitude. I doubt you could use storms due to the dangerous, highly nonlinear environment.
Re:using air currents to regain altitude (Score:4, Informative)
First, in reference to your comments on structural and weight limitations, the actual force born by the wings is far less, since there is far less gravity. In addition, while the thinner air is certainly a hindrance to how much lift can be acheived with the same area, it also means that the stresses that must be absorbed from turbulence and the like are probably a lot less.
In reference to unfolding wings, these have, I recall, been tested on Earth, so if they work in our dense air and stronger gravity, they should be fine on Mars. If I knew a link I'd post it; you can probably find more with google.
Finally, you talk a lot about control system algorithms. However, there are a number of reasons that Unmanned Autonomous Vehicles are simpler when flying than when driving. There are a couple of relevent articles in this month's Popular Science [popsci.com], as well as a very good one in the New York Times [nytimes.com] magazine from a few weeks ago that I just finished reading. If you think about it, the amount of leeway available in the air is far greater than that on the ground; whereas a car driver must maintain precision navigation within a few feet on a road and avoid obstacles and the like, a pilot can, during cruise, simply trim out the plane's elevators, maintain a proper heading, and get by without even an autopilot. If he drifts off by a few hundred feet altitude or a few degrees heading, it doesn't really matter. This is why we already have numerous UAV's in the air in the military (such as the well-known Predator drone) and why Boeing 777s and the new Airbus 330 (isn't that it?) both can supposedly fly without even needing a pilot, in an emergency.
In comparison, DARPA is working with a few contractors to develop UAV ground vehicles, but is really nowhere near production stage.
My knowledge about gliders specifically is limited, my personal experience being limited to powered planes, but I would imagine that with a fair level of accuracy, finding thermals and gaining altitude should not be all that difficult, since most of the control software already exists in some form or another.
Re:using air currents to regain altitude (Score:3, Interesting)
Most aircraft seek sinking air naturally. The reason for this is that as an airplane approaches an area of rising air the strongest rising air will lift the wing on the side that is closest to that rising air. This will cause a turn away from the rising air.
When seeking for lift as a glider pilot we use an instrument called a variometer which is a very sensistive verticle airspeed indicator. Such a device can be made audio so that glider pi
Incidentally, X-plane.org (Score:5, Interesting)
Pretty interesting, though I don't suppose there's an ARES model for X-plane yet, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't one soon
Simulator available :-) (Score:1, Redundant)
Star Trek Voyager? (Score:1)
Am I the only one who read the headline and thought "Delta Flyer Prototype" ?
Bah. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Re:Draped in the flag! (Score:1)
Mission Duration. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nasa really needs to have another stunningly successful mission, like the pathfinder mission. Spending million of taxpayer dollars for a 90 minute glider mission will make them look bad.
No, not a glider, it has a rocket (Score:2, Informative)
They say it will cover 850km (500mi). No speed range is given but I would think it would take a a few hours.
You're right, though, that a long-duration balloon could cover even more territory.
Don't forget Mars gravity is less than 1g (Score:1)
Re:Mission Duration. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Other uses for the powerful technology? (Score:3, Informative)
Having said that, in 1989 the French and the USSR started work on Mars 96, a spaceprobe that would have sent a balloon to Mars.
Mars 96 would have sent a 65kg probe to the surface which would have been slung below a helium balloon. During the day, the Sun would warm the gas and increase bouyancy. The balloon wo
RTFA (Score:2, Informative)
It isn't necessarily going to Mars.
Wow, that looks kinda... (Score:3, Interesting)
Besides, no one's going to be seeing that thing again once it crashes. It's not like we're ever going to get to Mars, at this rate.
Flag nonsense (Score:3, Insightful)
What the HELL is up with the flag-all-over-the-wings design?
I doubt seriously they'll waste weight on paint if, god forbid, the thing ever goes into production- so this was clearly "spiced up" as the selling image. Did NASA think it would have better chances all gussied up and make congressmen get all patriotic?
Or is the plan to call them "Unamerican" if they vote against it, because, say, Bush has dug us a budget hole so big it'll take us decades to get out of it? Yeah, we really need the shiny, flag-covered toys, don't we?
Re:Flag nonsense (Score:2, Interesting)
From my work developing some of the science instrumentation for this, I recall the flight speed to be in the vicinity of 250Km/Hr.
Check out... (Score:2)
Cool stuff! This mission looks very workable. It is too bad that it's a one-shot flight.