Surviving Tornadoes 449
SharkJumper writes "We here in central Oklahoma, USA are just climbing out of the wreckage of another series of tornadoes. Unlike the tornadoes of May 3rd, 1999, which killed 47 and injured more than 800, we now have much better tornado information and prediction technology. Largely because of this, there have been far fewer injuries, and (as of this morning) no reported deaths. Here in the greater Oklahoma City area, we can even register our storm shelters with the city. After a severe storm, GIS technology is used to create a map for rescuers detailing location and type of the shelter as well as emergency contact information. Rescuers can then use these maps to search for survivors that may be trapped by debris in their shelters."
Tip #1 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tip #1 (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in Stillwater, OK and was watching the news very closely yesterday afternoon/evening just to make sure those twister weren't headed my way.
Sure, the early warning systems are better, but the main improvements are:
(1) Modern variants of doppler radar (and software for it) that can better identify wind velocities in terms of rotation and likelihood of funnel formation. However, the radar can rarely (if ever?) tell for certain if a rotation in a storm is actually a tornado or if it is on the ground.
(2) Communication. The National Weather service and the Severe Storm labs in Norman work closely with radio and TV to get the info out about severe weather. But too often, they know to report actual tornados only after an eyewitness has called to report one on the ground.
The one thing they do know fairly well is the conditions that could lead to tornado formation. But the presence of those conditions (as we can sense/interpret them now) does not tell us that there *will* be a twister or *where*.
Re:Tip #1 (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually to be entirely technical only when a funnel cloud touches down on the ground is it called a tornado... prior to that it's called a funnel cloud
I knew there was a reason I lived through it. (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually when this thing hit I was working at home and the power went off. I was trying to figure out why (I live in Norman which is about 5-10 miles south of where the tornado touched down in Moore) so I turned on the TV (it was sunny and clear in Norman). The cable recycled and of course I turn on local channels and they are showing a tornado just north of where I live. Crazy ass weather. The alarms didn't even sound in my town (which they should
Re:Anti-MS? (Score:3, Funny)
Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2, Interesting)
1) Know your surroundings
2) If the sky is green, there's a problem.
3) Have a plan
4) Practice the plan
5) Hang on for dear life
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
5) Hang on for dear life
there is irony here, somewhere....
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Insightful)
The only good thing about where tornados tend to occur is that population is relatively sparse; so a few farm houses get hit or small communities, but rarely a big city. If you're out in the middle of nowhere, asleep, and you're too far from a siren to have any kind of advance warning, what will your plan be then?
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:5, Funny)
What about is a cow or two go flying by?
"Actualy I think that was the same cow."
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:5, Funny)
Deja-moo.
Wait, now I'm confused (Score:5, Funny)
What about tangerine trees and marmalade skies?
That's an acid trip (Score:3, Funny)
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:4, Funny)
Uhh. Doesn't it normally go that way? Y'know, kinda from the sky to the ground?
Oh, my god! It's raining...vertically!!! RUN FOR SHELTER!
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:5, Insightful)
And move to where?
West coast? quakes, fires, mudslides, volcanoes
East coast? Hurricanes
South? Hurricanes
Northeast? Blizzards
Everywhere has stupid weather. Just stupid in different ways.
No, the best way to survive a tornado is not to live in a trailer park/tornado-hurricane magnet.
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless of course you find a winter season that lasts from September to June a bit too depressing and kill yourself.
Weather in England (Score:3, Funny)
Unless of course you find a winter season that lasts from September to June a bit too depressing and kill yourself.
I had a roommate back when I was an undergrad who was from near Birmingham. Everytime we'd have a rainy, cold, gloomy, miserable day he'd get homesick. None of us quite understood why you'd miss that but hey, it's home right? You get used to it I guess. Being from near Cleveland, I don't think it's winter unless there is two feet of l
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
East coast? Hurricanes
South? Hurricanes
Northeast? Blizzards
Up here in NH, we just go inside during blizzards.
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Funny)
1. Have food already bought
2. Have wood already cut for heat
3. Have a steep enough roof to naturally dump off snow.
4.
5. Profit!
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
West coast? quakes, fires, mudslides, volcanoes
East coast? Hurricanes
South? Hurricanes
Northeast? Blizzards
Could one include Texas in the South's list, or is this list only for natural disasters?
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
Blizzards are laughable to those who were raised there.
Our snow removal corps are well paid and trained, and most people own plows to help quicken the process. Everyone learns to drive on ice, and also that you shouldn't be on the roads in the first place.
Where I was raised (Central Maine) dying from severe weather is practically unheard of.
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
Sounds like fun to me!
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
Real blizzards can cause massive disruptions to the power and transportation grids for days on end. If you're living in the Midwest, the power goes out, and you can't even get your car out of the garage, you can be in serious trouble when the weather gets cold. (My wife's family lived in North Dakota when she w
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:3, Informative)
Other than that, I agree with your sentiment. I felt the same way when the mississippi river flooded and wiped out all those farmers - tough luck. You built right next to a huge river that is known to flood every 50 years or so. You knew it was a flood plain because you liked the rich farming soil it provided - people told you the Misissippi river ha
Earth... (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, tornadoes can occur *anywhere* where a _thunderstorm_ can develop. That's pretty much most of Earth's surface between the Arctic and Antarctic circle latitudes. Of course there are unique areas within these zones where thunderstorms are rare like extremely high mountain tops, etc, that interfere with thunderstorms.
Of course you can also build a city under the sea to escape them.
We don't have it here. And we're a quite big... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:We don't have it here. And we're a quite big... (Score:2)
The same reason people choose to live in places where the economy has been on the verge of collapse for decades.
You have only one choice in the US then (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in the far SE corner of Kansas. Yes, I live within miles of where the fatal tornados passed through on Sunday. 6 miles north of me the tornados eliminated (No [morningsun.net], I'm [morningsun.net] not [morningsun.net] joking [morningsun.net]) the town of Franklin, KS. 7 miles south of me tornados ripped through Columbus, KS, over near Asbury, MO, and finally tore through Carl Junction, MO. I've lived in this state all my life
Re:Problem: Tornadoes happen everywhere! (Score:2)
Actaully, I've never heard of them in:
Alaska, Hawaii, Washington State, California, Utah, Puerto Rico, Guam, Rhode Island, Maine, Vermont...
Re:Problem: Tornadoes happen everywhere! (Score:2)
Personally it is not a big deal. I live in SouthWest Missouri and I had a tornado skip over my apartment earlier this week and crash through a church.
Sure it was tramadic - but it doesn't happen that often (I have lived here for 16 years and that's the first time I've ever been within 15 miles of one).
No reason to mo
Re:Problem: Tornadoes happen everywhere! (Score:2)
Re:Problem: Tornadoes happen everywhere! (Score:2)
Alaska, Hawaii, Washington State, California, Utah, Puerto Rico, Guam, Rhode Island, Maine, Vermont.
Bzzzt try again...
I lived in Texas for 12 years and never saw a tornado.
I didn't see [first hand] my first [and only so far] tornado until I was in California. There was one funnel cloud that didn't touch down, and one tornado touched down in Sunnyvale. [I was driving south on 280 near Cupertino...it was sunny where I was.
So I can vouch for California having tor
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
Re:Best way to survive tornadoes (Score:2)
This whole topic reminds me of all the stupid people on
Seems sorta careless (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Seems sorta careless (Score:5, Funny)
no comment.
Re:Seems sorta careless (Score:5, Funny)
It's not like the links lead to pages with Duke Nukem Forever screenshots or 1:2 scale Sherman tanks made of legos.
Re:Seems sorta careless (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Seems sorta careless (Score:3, Informative)
I can't tell from your wording, but are you under the impression that >50 people per day die from auto accidents and that >50 people per day die from gun accidents? Or rather that >50 people per day die from both causes together?
A quick search of the CDC web site (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr51/nvsr51_0 5.pdf page 17) shows me that the average number of deaths per day in 2001 fro
Tornado Tip (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tornado Tip (Score:5, Funny)
My town was hit YESTERDAY (Score:5, Interesting)
anyway, yesterday I get a call from my father saying I should probably keep an eye on the weather right (i live in lawrence kansas btw), and I was like "uh ok dad" anyway, so I am watching the news and they say "you should probably seek shelter if you live in lawrence kansas" so I instant messaged my family members on trillian that I was going to leave my apartment to go find somewhere with facilities for protection. So me and my roomates head on over to a restaurant a block away from where we live, because there is a cooler there. We arrive and all the TV's are on news channels (its a sports bar) and a lot of people were already in the back cooler (pretty solid place).
Anyway so I sit down and order a drink, and start watching the news. A lot of people started filtering into the bar at this point, because the rain had become pretty severe at this time. Then the sun came out, bright as day, calm outside no rain at all! So people started to leave the restaurant right, and then they all turned right back around about a minute later and goign "get back in the cooler"
Right then the television pops on with live coverage from a helicopter outside of lawrence looking INTO LAWRENCE, and we watched the tornado take a merry jaunt through the south of town, and we were watching and we could see the restaurant on the TV, so a lot more people filed back into the cooler. Though I watched the TV since I could see the restaurant i figured if it started getting close I was 10 feet from the cooler and I could probably make it.
Anyway we watched go around town a little, then go back up into the air. And then we went back and told the guys in the cooler that the tornado was gone, and everyone started getting their cell phones out, and someone let us borrow their cell phones and we called our relatives so that they knew we were ok.
It was a pretty weird expereince because I had never actually been in a "calm before the storm" scenario, but it really does happen, because the sun came out and it looked really pretty outside.
It was surreal watching the tornado going around and people driving on the roads as tracked around parrellel to Iowa street. and knowing that its actually VERY close to where YOU ARE right then watching it.
And then it was a bit weird watching the news later that night and they had classical music while a camera was just viewing a big swathe of destroyed land and it had text at the bottom "please do not go out in your cars so that Emergency traffic can move freely"
anyway live feeds are pretty important, because you KNOW where the tornado is, and all the live coverage of the event most assuradely saved lives.
The tornado touched down 5 blocks from my house, so the only thing that really got to me was the police sirens the car alarms that kept going off.
Re:My town was hit YESTERDAY (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tornado Tip (Score:5, Interesting)
http://webserv.chatsystems.com/~paul/tornado.jp
I took that last night. I live in Moore, Oklahoma, in the same neighborhood that was smacked hard in May 1999. This place is nuts.
Oh no toto! (Score:5, Funny)
What are you doing? (Score:2, Funny)
Ok, you just climbed out of tornado wreckage (which is nothing to laugh about, I've been through a couple when I lived in Indiana), but the first thing that comes to your mind is dude, I bet we can submit this to
Seriously, though, its cool that technology can help when mother nature is being a muthah...
Re:What are you doing? (Score:2, Interesting)
What I take exception to is this phrase:
Unlike the tornadoes of May 3rd, 1999, which killed 47 and injured more than 800, we now have much better tornado information and prediction technology.
Perhaps the fact that '99s tornado was an F5 and this one was a F2 to low F3 has a little to do with the difference in damage/causualties?
Re:What are you doing? (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps the fact that '99s tornado was an F5 and this one was a F2 to low F3 has a little to do with the difference in damage/causualties?
I though that the F ratings were a measure of the damage caused. If so, then what you said is a tautology.
Re:What are you doing? (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually since the rating of a tornado is directly based on the amount of damage it does... yes it does have a 'little' to do with the difference in damage but nothing to do with the number of casualties.
This does not change the fact that the "size" of the tornado has little to do with the rating on the Fujita Scale [tornadoproject.com]. A tornado that is capable of being a F4 or F5 may
Sadly... (Score:5, Funny)
*ducks*
Re:Sadly... (Score:2)
Actually, Microsoft Tornado 2003 - with ActiMate Barney Technology is the first Microsoft product that doesen't suck.
It blows.
Even more sadly... (Score:2)
Tornados, bombs, Land slides, earthquacks (Score:2, Interesting)
Crazy Winds~ (Score:2)
Ok, seriously, I know that they always tell you to get in a doorway, or bathtub, supposedly because it is a 'more sound structure'~ I would think you wouldn't want to be near porcelain at a time like that...
And not living in an area like that, how often do people build their own 'shelter' as opposed to a central/public one?
Re:Crazy Winds~ (Score:5, Insightful)
Storm cellers, basements, crawl spaces. It's all good.
Bathtubs are good not because of the material, but because it's one piece, they usually survive and it's a place you can get down and cover your vital organs and noggin while having some side protection.
Tubs usually were cast iron with a porcelain coating over them, now they are usually fiberglass.
Re:Crazy Winds~ (Score:5, Funny)
I would think you wouldn't want to be near porcelain at a time like that...
I'd be wishing I was near porcelain, since the alternatives involve begging rescue-workers for a clean pair of pants...
Re:Crazy Winds~ (Score:2)
What porcelain? The toilet? Bathtubs have historically been made of iron, with a porcelain or enamel cover. Nowadays most are made from fiberglass.
Bathtubs, particularly old standalones, are seriously heavy, and due to the shape of the clawfoot variety, resist the wind picking them up.
Every paranoid should have a clawfoot tub in their house. besides tornado protection, they make a pretty good bullet shield if the black helicopte
I like bad weather (Score:5, Interesting)
go fig.
Re:I like bad weather (Score:2)
Think about it.
Re:Childhood memories (Score:2)
There's a fine line between cool and tragic.
Registration is just the first step (Score:4, Funny)
But the next thing you know, Big Brother has these lists of shelters! It only makes it easier when they need to confiscate them later!!
I tell you what, you can have my unregistered shelter when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!
--
Re:Registration is just the first step (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Registration is just the first step (Score:2)
Get a Monolithic Dome... (Score:3, Informative)
Easy! (Score:2)
Works for nukes, too.
the 1999 Tornado killed because it was so huge (Score:5, Interesting)
That tornado was so powerful it removed the foundation of the homes and left barren earth. Unless you had a dedicated storm shelter underground, you were at risk.
I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I saw the devestation too. There was plenty of warning about this tornado, but when they are this nasty, this powerful, this devestating, sometimes there isn't anything anyone can do.
That same storm cell went up I-44 and hit Tulsa a few hours later. The tornados by then were not nearly as powerful, but that was the first time in my life I was actually scared of a tornado. I was 21 at the time, have lived in Oklahoma all my life, but when they show a street level map of you neighborhood and show the path of the tornado coming right at you, it is unnerving to say the least. (Especially after seeing what this storm cell did to the poor folks in Moore.)
Our home did not get hit, as the tornado hit the Arkansas River and went back up into the wall cloud. It touched down again across town.
Here, tornados are a fact of life. Most people who live in "Tornado Alley" accept this, and just pray it never hits them. My heart goes out to those who have suffered losses from this tornado.
Re:the 1999 Tornado killed because it was so huge (Score:5, Informative)
I saw somewhere that the 1999 Moore tornado had its windspeed measured with a doppler radar, and the number they came up with was one mph below F6 status. It would have been the first F6 tornado ever documented.
It was truly a monster...
!Sig
Re:the 1999 Tornado killed because it was so huge (Score:5, Informative)
Tornados are a bitch. People would be well advised to learn about them and learn how to protect themselves before they have to adlib.
Tornado Research? (Score:2)
SKYWARN and amateur radio (Score:3, Informative)
Simple solution (Score:5, Funny)
Get a good job (Score:2, Funny)
Testbed for weather radar in Norman, OK (Score:3, Interesting)
You can see some pictures and read about the new radar here [noaa.gov].
The current radar technology used for all weather forcasting (NEXRAD) is really pretty old. By using a phased array, the scan times are much quicker than the old spinning dish style.
We hope to get this thing operational really soon. Off the above site, there's a webcam where you can see the progress of its construction.
I've always wanted to see a tornado before I die (Score:5, Funny)
Tornado's? Ha! (Score:2, Funny)
MMMM... Oklahoma (Score:3, Interesting)
If you haven't ever been to the middle of the US, and you get a chance, watch the weather reports some time. If you're from the west coast they will simply amaze you. All the weather people are real meterologists (most with phd's) and they really know what they're talking about. When there is a severe storm or tornado they track the thing and tell you at what time it's going to hit certain intersections in the city. The weather people here are just a joke.
Michigan (Score:5, Interesting)
(By the way, just to quell misunderstandings later on, a tornado WATCH means that the conditions in the area are condusive to the formation of a tornado. A tornado WARNING means that a funnel cloud has actually been seen forming in the area.)
I was told of several ways to know when a tornado was coming by my parents, friends, teachers, etc... These are in no way scientific or reliable. (Don't sue me if you die in a tornado ^_^)
1. The sky will take on a slight green tint in the 20 minutes before a funnel cloud forms.
2. The wind stops right before a funnel cloud forms near you.
3. If the clouds that are high in the sky are moving at a different speed from the clouds that are lower, a tornado is likely.
4. If you observe spiders unraveling their webs, a tornado is likely to form.
5. Dogs will begin to panic and/or act strangely.
6. If you observe a tornado.. ^_^
I love Michigan. My father and I used to sit in lawn chairs and watch tornados follow the freeway during summer storms. (Mom thought we were crazy..)
Doppler radar (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't live in a Trailer Park (Score:2)
Of course this will ruin the local Camaro-on-Blocks and Dale Earnhardt merchandise economies for some time...
know your weather patterns (Score:5, Informative)
Here in SE Michigan you can get a very easy feel for what storms you can watch from the porch, and what storms you should watch from the TV in the basement. "good" storms track West to East. A high percentage of storms come off of lake michigan, track across the state, then split north or south when they hit Ann Arbor.
(The city's a heat island. 10-ish square miles of concrete and asphault that forms a giant column of rising air that tends to split all but the biggest storms. Once the storms hit Ann Arbor, they either go north and hit Oakland county or Head south and slam Monroe. Ypsilanti, which is just west of Ann Arbor, seldom catches the full force of a storm.)
"bad" storms are the ones that trace South to North. Theres nothing south of us (except ohio farm fields, ideal storm breeding grounds) to protect the urban areas. The worst storms I can remember have all run South - North.
Moral of the story; know your local weather, your TV weather man is a dipshit, weather.com radar is your friend, and when in doubt, go for the basement. (if you have one, you insensitve clod)
Pringles crisis (Score:3, Funny)
Texas Tech and FEMA have a lot of info on the subj (Score:3, Interesting)
Check out FEMA's website [fema.gov] as well as Texas Tech's Wind Engineering site [ttu.edu].
Weather Knowledge (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing that is most strange is that in some places I would bet the average Oklahoma/Texas/Kansas person would have more knowledge of weather and how to read radar. We know what a "hook echo" is, can point out a "wall cloud", and know that the green tint means hail.
Oklahoma isn't much for technology but if you want cutting edge radar tech, no place is better. They recently did a study near here to see if airborne particles (like would be released from a terrorist crop duster) could be detected on our radar. Never will know the results but.. We also have Tinker AFB, home of the AWACS (the ultimate flying radar).
Why do people live there? They have to! (Score:3, Insightful)
What is it that draws you people to live there, why do you not move from such an obviously inhospitible place to live
There was a documentary about Tornado Alley [tornadochaser.net] on Channel 5 [channel5.co.uk] last week, which showed horrific devastation from past tornadoes that seemed mainly to hit trailer-parks and cheap housing in places like Oklahoma.
I infer from this that many/most people who live in those areas of the US are not able to move elsewhere, because they are simply too poor to do so.
(not a Troll, by the way, I'm su
The chances of being hit by a tornado are small (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I don't think you realize the very very small likelyhood of being hit by a tornado. While tornados themselves are not rare, it is not everyday that they
Re:Not inteded to be a callus question (Score:3, Insightful)
Really now. In spite of nasty natural phenomena, people continue to build homes in California and Florida without a second thought. By comparison to the widespread damage caused by earthquakes and hurric
Re:Not inteded to be a callus question (Score:3, Informative)
That said....
People live where they do for many reasons. Number one is economic. *something* drew enough people to the area (this is "any" area", not jsut tonado alley) for it to be "profitable" to live there... either a scarce resource (like gold, which d
Re:Not inteded to be a callus question (Score:2)
Re:Act of God clauses protect you (Score:2)
Re:Not inteded to be a callus question (Score:3, Informative)
Let's do a little estimation, shall we? Let's call the "average" tornado as about 200 meters wide with a 10 kilometer path. That's actually a pretty big average, but let's take it for argument's sake. There are 1000 tornadoes in a year, on average. So, that's 2000 km^2 of damage per year. That translates roughly into a square patch of damage 9 miles on a side (80 mi^2).
Let's then further assume that all this damage happens in only Oklahoma proper. Again,
Re:Not inteded to be a callus question (Score:2)
First, the odds of actually being hit, much less killed, by a tornado are significantly lower than the chances of dying in a car crash during your expected lifetime.
Second, bad things can happen anywhere on
Re:need more coffee (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:need more coffee (Score:2)
Increasing your font size rnight fix the problern.
If these two lines look the same, increasing your font size might fix the problem.
Re:we need to develope construction techniques (Score:5, Insightful)
This tornado is the 5th that I've helped clean up after. I grew up 2.5 hours west of here, south of Wichita. I cleaned up from 4 different tornado incidents back home, including my grandfathers farm/ranch. Back home those families that weren't hit help those that were. That very night or early the following morning the community decends on the destruction in mass to help clean up. I was surprised by what happened in Franklin. I went up there expecting to help people dig out like I'd done before. I couldn't get into the town. The police were guarding all the entrances to the town and only permitting entrance to those people with photo ID that proved they lived in the affected area. As it turns out, within 30 minutes of the tornado city folks swamped the city streets looking for damage. They were rubbernecking. They couldn't stay home and watch it on TV. They had to get in their cars and drive through the affected areas looking for death and destruction. This prevented emergency vehicles from being able to gain access to those areas. Hence, the city was shut down. Damned city folk. In the end I donated some clothing and rode an Red Cross IRV and served food all day. I would have felt more useful doing something else but someone had to feed the people and workers.
Back on topic. There is no such thing as a tornado proof building. NOAA has done hundreds of studies into building material. They have yet to find anything that can withstand the winds of even a strong F3 tornado. A F3 tornado damaged reinforced concrete. A F4 ripped reinforced concrete apart. A F5 crumbles it into little bits. What needs to be focused on is tornado shelters and getting people into them. Homes and possessions can be replaced. People can not.
Re:Survival is simple (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Need to send a wireless camera up in a tornado (Score:3, Interesting)
Tornadoes generate a tremendous amount of EM radiation. Nearby twisters are known to jam low-VHF frequencies (i.e. the infamous "white channel two" warning). Of course, they may not affect WiFi frequencies at all, but I also wonder if the rotating iron in a tornado forms something of a faraday cage.