Well, up here in the northwest, I think ive seen about 2 or 3 days where there was snow on the ground for a whole day. Usually we have snow from thanksgiving to middle february.. Bad year to buy a pass to go snowboarding =(
I'd just read the article (and downloaded some of the nicer pics) and I decided to do a little looking of my own... I took a few slides outside to get cold and after about 15-20 minutes I went outside and put a bit of snow on one slide at a time and brought it inside to look at it under my microscope (I didn't want to take the microscope outside, I was afraid that the lenses would cloud up..) and I could look for about a minute or so before they started to melt (which looks pretty cool too) and they really are neat to look at.. All the different shapes and sizes, it's easy to beleve that it's true that no two are alike... anyway, if you have a microscope and live somewhere that there is snow available go and try this, it's worth the time...
Please, we've had more than enough snow already.. wh y don't you study sunshine or something?
sn0w 0wnz j00!
Seriously, this is one of the more intriguing articles I've ever seen on Slashdot. It's made my bookmarks and is certainly inspiration to whip up some stuff in PoV [povray.org]. I'm an old math and geometry buff (and former resident of the Great White North) and appreciate the beauty of snow. Perhaps moreso that I've got all the technology crap to play with it, yet now live in a warm climate.
Yet, there we geeks were, spellbound decades ago by Julias and Mandelbrots, and accumulating libraries of books, like:
The Fractal Geometry of Nature, Benoit B. Mandelbrot
The Science of Fractal Images (Peitgen, Saupe)
The Beauty of Fractals (Peitgen, Richter)
The Algorithmic Beatuy of Plants (Prusinkiewicz, Lindenmayer)
All the while, I could have gone outside and been inspired by a light dusting of tiny snow or those huge flakes which fell infrequently in a dead calm. Sometimes it is good to get outside.
I don't understand how a story like this can make front-page slashdot, yet the story about the man burning his penis with his laptop can't. A distinct failure in public safety awareness, if I ever saw one.
I don't understand how a story like this can make front-page slashdot, yet the story about the man burning his penis with his laptop can't. A distinct failure in public safety awareness, if I ever saw one.
Taco obviously spends more time looking at things with an electron microscope than he does with his new wife.
hey, i feel for you....posted the same story. but it is a thing of wonder to imagine that no two snowflakes are alike, unlike posts to slashdot about burned phalluses......
Thanks Slashdot, I really get some much precious information from you, I wonder how I could live without your amazing knowledge. And its editors cleverness !
j/k but why in america do people feel the need to put a copyright on EVERYTHING! In this case it only tarnishes a beautiful picture of cristalized water.:(
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Saturday March 01, 2003 @02:35AM (#5411938)
Come on critics, we can have a diversion once in a while. What's wrong with some snowflakes? They are pretty, and the post doesn't take up too much space on the front page of slashdot. It's my opinion that this world could use a little more senseless beauty.
Come on critics, we can have a diversion once in a while. What's wrong with some snowflakes? They are pretty, and the post doesn't take up too much space on the front page of slashdot. It's my opinion that this world could use a little more senseless beauty.
I'm sitting right now one story down from the office of Ken Libbrecht, the guy who wrote the book (and the website). Ken told me that he was writing a book on the physics of snowflakes, and I asked him how he expected to get anyone to buy it. "Pictures," he replied, "lots of pretty pictures!"
And how is it that he got interested in the physics of snowflakes in the first place?
Bet'cha he saw some pretty pictures somewhere.
The advisor I was assigned to do my senior physics research project under had just written the book on the physics of boomerangs. Why? Because he thought boomerangs were fun, cool, and when he went to look up how they worked found out no one really knew.
My research project was on the dynamics of two wheeled vehicles. Why? Because I adored bicycles, and there were some issues with understanding just how they really worked.
Some people might be surprised at how much real science begins with the simple joy of tossing a boomerang about, or coasting down a curvey road, or some young mind thinking:
Haven't got to see them due to the slashdotting, but snowflakes, and their incredible structures are very cool to see in my opinion. The perfect geometry of a snowflake and the variation of each has always amazed me.
Martin: Look! It's snowing!
Ralph: [catching a flake of grease on his tounge] This snowflake tastes like fish sticks!
( http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F20 [snpp.com] )
Despite the comments from the more feeble-minded, I still have to say that these images are absolutely stunning.
Even after reading through the pages of scientific explaination, I really cannot fathom that the physics actually worked to create something quite that beautifully symmetric, complex, etc... .
Maybe it's all been faked by the government, like the Apollo moon landings...
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Saturday March 01, 2003 @02:59AM (#5412021)
My observatory is based at 2,000 meters in one of the ten cleanest and driest locations around (the atmospheric aerosol concentrations are the lowest anywhere yet measured outside of Antarctica). As a result, not only do we get beautiful seeing and astronomical-imaging conditions, but the most amazingly beautiful and complex snowflakes I've ever seen. Life is good.:)
Cleanest and driest location, eh? The article says for a snowflake you need a speck of dust and some water molecules. How does the clean dry nature of your location increase the complexity of your snowflakes?
When I was young, I used to make my own custom snow flakes. Well, not really, I just dyed existing ones a pleasing yellow color; or sometimes clumsily wrote my name on them. I never though about taking pictures of them and putting them on a web site though. Obviously that would have been cool thing to do.
Anyone notice how snowflakes look like hexagonal 2D cellular automata? They exhibit a lot of the variation you see when you change the 'rules' of automata systems.
Does this only confirm my expectations that no one at/. wants to go out? Certainly does! Why don't you go out, spring sun is shining and make a snowman or couple of angels to the snow.
indeed! bentley stands out as a true pioneer not only in terms of his art, but in developing techniques relating to photomicrography. many of his accomplishments were made while still in his teens, and true recognition of his art did not occur until after his death.
We have a book of Bentley's work in the bookstore where i am currently employed. If you are at all interested in this sort of thing I advice picking up a copy, there are several hundred snowflakes against black backgrounds arranged by general type, and at the end some striking pictures of frost on windowsills and suchlike.
HaloSim3 Software [clara.co.uk] is a sundog simulator which models how light passes through ice crystals that are suspended in the atmosphere. Beautiful and fascinating.
I'm not quite sure why this and ice crystals are so fascinating, but I have the book mentioned in the article, which consists of hundreds of black pages with 1" square images of snowflake magnifications. In the first instance it sounds insane, but it never fails to hold peoples attention.
Nice to see stuff like this fly across slashdot on occasion. Helps me take a moment to appreciate all the cool design that was here long before and will remain long after us humans:)
I am truly amazed by the nearly perfect symmetry in these crystals. Were they picked for shots because of that, or somehow manufactured to look so perfect?
Either way, it's kind of awe inspiring to see such perfect looking designs on a microscopic scale. The universe never ceases to amaze me.
Because each arm experiences the same conditions, the arms tend to look alike, producing large-scale, intricate, six-fold symmetric snow crystals.
This explanation [caltech.edu] is obviously handwaving-- the symmetry is perfect (or close to it) over scales of millions of molecules.
I've been arguing since 1980 or so that an ice crystal in freefall is not at absolute zero (obviously) so it must have internal vibrations. This is basically 'noise', but as it echoes thru the ice, it stops looking random and becomes symmetrical, like Chladni patterns [google.com] on a vibrating plate or drumhead. (Or like the radiating circles from a drip of water into a circular pool, reconverging at an opposite point.) Because these symmetries are present from the first stage of growth, they maintain symmetrical growth.
I don't think the 104.5 degree angle between the hydrogens in water molecules is close enough to 120 to deliver perfect hexagonality-- it's probably due to the geometry of echoes in any disk, because hexagons can be inscribed in circles. (The spinning of the seed probably contributes to the flatness-- growing favors the outside edge of the bulge, otherwise it might be more spherical.)
This explanation [caltech.edu] is obviously handwaving-- the symmetry is perfect (or close to it) over scales of millions of molecules.
I've been arguing since 1980 or so that an ice crystal in freefall is not at absolute zero (obviously) so it must have internal vibrations. This is basically 'noise', but as it echoes thru the ice, it stops looking random and becomes symmetrical, like Chladni patterns [google.com] on a vibrating plate or drumhead. (Or like the radiating circles from a drip of water into a circular pool, reconverging at an opposite point.) Because these symmetries are present from the first stage of growth, they maintain symmetrical growth. [snip]
This explanation is just crackpot-science. Crystal growth and dendrite-formation are well-understood subjects within physical chemistry.
Of course their explanation is grossly simplified, that page is oriented towards the layman, not inorganic chemists. If you don't understand it, read a book on the subject.
Molecular vibrations are present at absolute zero, they're called zero-point vibrations and are a well-known consequence of quantum theory.
Suggesting that all water molecules in a snowflake crystal vibrate in harmony in a state of equillibrium violates the laws of thermodynamics.
What do you supposedly mean by "symmetry"? Snowflakes are not perfectly symmetric. Anyway, dendrite formation simulation (at the macroscopic scale) is a popular subject in numerical methods. Here's a quick link off google. [dmawww.epfl.ch]
The level of symmetry in snowflakes is infitely greater than that demo. All the little filigrees echo each other, and the 'mistakes' are attributable to fractures.
Molecular vibrational levels are Boltzmann-distributed at equillibrium
That's only for a random fluid, not a crystal in freefall.
Funny that there is so much less-that-positve response on this article.
Look at that natural symetry, always 6 sided.
You know, you are mostly composed of the same stuff as these snowflake: water.
even carbon forms 6 sided bonds, in carbon nanotubes and with it's good friends oxygen and hydrogen.
You are peering at the fundamental laws of organization here. It's beautiful and it seems to hint at something, at least to me.
you know, your brain has dendrites too.
Now the question is; if we are made of all this stuff that forms 6 sided bonds why do we have 5's of seemingly everything else?
By the way, I know this is just wanton meandering so don't take me too seriously.
in all actuality these are, after all, just snowflakes.
I have a gripe about wallpapers. Not long ago, a 1024x768 pixel wallpaper was HUGE. Not so anymore. At work we use screens with perverse resolutions, and any wallpaper on the looks pixelated and not very pretty. Why not store the wallpapers as 4000x3000 px pics? (Aside from size and transfer times) These are professional pictures, the input should be more than enough to do it...
There is something awesome about the purity and simplicity of these objects. It makes you realise so much of your life is just over-complex crap.
In the same vein I value the pure driving experience my Miata MX5 gives me, as opposed to my luxo barge Camry family transport pod.:)
In my Mozilla preferences (Appearance / Colors), I have chosen to use my own colors and background insted of the colors and background specified by the page because I like reading my pages with black text on a white background.
When I went to see the pictures in the gallery (for example at http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/ph otos/pp01.htm [caltech.edu]), I was at first rather perplexed because I saw no picture. Just a blank page. But viewing the HTML source explained everything. The picture is as the background in a table, one cell high and one cell wide! WTF? Lousy webdesign by <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 3.0">.
Enough already (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Enough already (Score:1, Offtopic)
East coast I take it :) (Score:1)
Re:Enough already (Score:2)
Something fun to do.. (Score:2)
Re:Enough already (Score:3, Interesting)
sn0w 0wnz j00!
Seriously, this is one of the more intriguing articles I've ever seen on Slashdot. It's made my bookmarks and is certainly inspiration to whip up some stuff in PoV [povray.org]. I'm an old math and geometry buff (and former resident of the Great White North) and appreciate the beauty of snow. Perhaps moreso that I've got all the technology crap to play with it, yet now live in a warm climate.
Yet, there we geeks were, spellbound decades ago by Julias and Mandelbrots, and accumulating libraries of books, like:
The Fractal Geometry of Nature, Benoit B. Mandelbrot
The Science of Fractal Images (Peitgen, Saupe)
The Beauty of Fractals (Peitgen, Richter)
The Algorithmic Beatuy of Plants (Prusinkiewicz, Lindenmayer)
All the while, I could have gone outside and been inspired by a light dusting of tiny snow or those huge flakes which fell infrequently in a dead calm. Sometimes it is good to get outside.
Bah! (Score:5, Funny)
Think Taco (Score:2, Funny)
Taco obviously spends more time looking at things with an electron microscope than he does with his new wife.
Re:Bah! (Score:4, Funny)
Obviously, Slashdot users get much more use out of snowflakes than penises.
Re:Bah! (Score:1)
Re:Bah! (Score:4, Informative)
Cool! (Score:1)
Literally
Seriously, though, those images are amazing.
Snow Job? (Score:5, Funny)
Make your own snowflake! (Score:5, Funny)
I've been doing that since grade school. Here are my instructions:
--sex [slashdot.org]
They're already selling snowflake pics (Score:5, Funny)
Inspiring picture with Snowflakes [despair.com]
I love that site... hilarious (and no, I don't work for them or get money from them in ANY way)
Re:They're already selling snowflake pics (Score:1)
Re:They're already selling snowflake pics (Score:1)
No need to worry about sharp scissors... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Make your own snowflake! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Make your own snowflake! (Score:2)
or do it with flash (Score:1)
here [lookandfeel.com]
(pretty neat little site, IMO)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Make your own snowflake! (Score:2)
1. Acquire tissue sample from $$$$exyGal
2. Clone DNA in ebryonic stemcell.
3. Surrogate mother raises baby $$$$exyGal
4.
5. Profit!
Re:God damn it (Score:1)
Re:God damn it (Score:2)
Re:God damn it (Score:2)
Wow amazing news ! (Score:1, Informative)
Excellent! (Score:1)
It just proves, there truly is beauty in symmetry.
Re:Excellent! (Score:4, Funny)
I agree with this. Breasts usually come in pairs.
Re:Excellent! (Score:3, Funny)
You're not fooling anyone, you know.
Re:Excellent! (Score:1)
Re:Excellent! (Score:1)
seriously...that's amazing..the (semi) high res shots look great.
OH! don't tell me they copyrighted a snow flake? (Score:2, Funny)
Each Snowflake is Unique (Score:1, Insightful)
It's not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's not that bad (Score:4, Funny)
Re:It's not that bad (Score:1, Flamebait)
What are you, some sort of commie or hippie?
It's all about the pictures (Score:5, Interesting)
Looks like he was right!
Re:It's all about the pictures (Score:5, Interesting)
Bet'cha he saw some pretty pictures somewhere.
The advisor I was assigned to do my senior physics research project under had just written the book on the physics of boomerangs. Why? Because he thought boomerangs were fun, cool, and when he went to look up how they worked found out no one really knew.
My research project was on the dynamics of two wheeled vehicles. Why? Because I adored bicycles, and there were some issues with understanding just how they really worked.
Some people might be surprised at how much real science begins with the simple joy of tossing a boomerang about, or coasting down a curvey road, or some young mind thinking:
"Ooooooooooo, pretty. Me want touch."
KFG
Re:It's all about the pictures (Score:1)
melted fast..... (Score:5, Funny)
I look forward to seeing those beatiful images tommorow.
Re:melted fast..... (Score:1)
Executive summary (Score:2, Informative)
not-so old proverb (Score:5, Funny)
Gorgeous (Score:2)
When will we learn?? (Score:1)
Snowflake images (Score:1)
Obligatory Simpsons Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Obligatory Simpsons Quote (Score:1)
Ralph: [catching a flake of grease on his tounge] This snowflake tastes like fish sticks!
( http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F20 [snpp.com] )
Mirror (Score:5, Funny)
\/
---
/\
HTH!
Re:Mirror (Score:2)
Quite Stunning (Score:1)
Even after reading through the pages of scientific explaination, I really cannot fathom that the physics actually worked to create something quite that beautifully symmetric, complex, etc... .
Maybe it's all been faked by the government, like the Apollo moon landings...
I Get To Experience The Best Of Both Worlds! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I Get To Experience The Best Of Both Worlds! (Score:2)
Re:"Women"? What Is This "Women" Of Which You Spea (Score:1)
Re:I Get To Experience The Best Of Both Worlds! (Score:1)
"outside of Antartica" doesn't really narrow things down much
Re:I Get To Experience The Best Of Both Worlds! (Score:1)
http://snowflakebentley.com/
Hmm (Score:5, Funny)
Support your local troll!
Re:Hmm (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow (Score:1)
Californian here... (Score:1, Funny)
Wouldn't it hurt if it were to hit you?
Cool snowflakes (Score:2)
When I was young, I used to make my own custom snow flakes. Well, not really, I just dyed existing ones a pleasing yellow color; or sometimes clumsily wrote my name on them. I never though about taking pictures of them and putting them on a web site though. Obviously that would have been cool thing to do.
Kook Theory (Score:2)
Hmmm? [memorologyllc.com]
"I couldn't help it. It just popped in there!" - Ray
Re: (Score:1)
Cellular Automata? (Score:2, Interesting)
They exhibit a lot of the variation you see when you change the 'rules' of automata systems.
Go out and play? (Score:2, Funny)
Snow Flake Photography Pioneer (Score:5, Interesting)
from Bentley (1930s). There's even a web site
for the Bently snowflake museum.
http://snowflakebentley.com/
Take a break from the trolling, posting and
hacking, and enjoy the photographs. They're
quite beautiful.
Re:Snow Flake Photography Pioneer (Score:1)
Re:Snow Flake Photography Pioneer (Score:2)
Can anybody (Score:2)
this snowflake seems to be made in Taiwan... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this snowflake seems to be made in Taiwan... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this snowflake seems to be made in Taiwan... (Score:1)
Atmospheric Ice crystal simulation (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not quite sure why this and ice crystals are so fascinating, but I have the book mentioned in the article, which consists of hundreds of black pages with 1" square images of snowflake magnifications. In the first instance it sounds insane, but it never fails to hold peoples attention.
Yes Virginia (Score:1)
Beautiful simple things (Score:3, Insightful)
ASCII version of pictures (Score:5, Funny)
*
and my personal favorite
* *
* *
The above one makes a great desktop for the graphically challenged.
Re:ASCII version of pictures (Score:3, Funny)
Symmetry (Score:1)
Either way, it's kind of awe inspiring to see such perfect looking designs on a microscopic scale. The universe never ceases to amaze me.
Why they're symmetrical (Score:5, Interesting)
This explanation [caltech.edu] is obviously handwaving-- the symmetry is perfect (or close to it) over scales of millions of molecules.
I've been arguing since 1980 or so that an ice crystal in freefall is not at absolute zero (obviously) so it must have internal vibrations. This is basically 'noise', but as it echoes thru the ice, it stops looking random and becomes symmetrical, like Chladni patterns [google.com] on a vibrating plate or drumhead. (Or like the radiating circles from a drip of water into a circular pool, reconverging at an opposite point.) Because these symmetries are present from the first stage of growth, they maintain symmetrical growth.
I don't think the 104.5 degree angle between the hydrogens in water molecules is close enough to 120 to deliver perfect hexagonality-- it's probably due to the geometry of echoes in any disk, because hexagons can be inscribed in circles. (The spinning of the seed probably contributes to the flatness-- growing favors the outside edge of the bulge, otherwise it might be more spherical.)
Re:Why they're symmetrical (Score:2, Flamebait)
I've been arguing since 1980 or so that an ice crystal in freefall is not at absolute zero (obviously) so it must have internal vibrations. This is basically 'noise', but as it echoes thru the ice, it stops looking random and becomes symmetrical, like Chladni patterns [google.com] on a vibrating plate or drumhead. (Or like the radiating circles from a drip of water into a circular pool, reconverging at an opposite point.) Because these symmetries are present from the first stage of growth, they maintain symmetrical growth.
[snip]
This explanation is just crackpot-science.
Crystal growth and dendrite-formation are well-understood subjects within physical chemistry.
Of course their explanation is grossly simplified, that page is oriented towards the layman, not inorganic chemists.
If you don't understand it, read a book on the subject.
Molecular vibrations are present at absolute zero, they're called zero-point vibrations and are a well-known consequence of quantum theory.
Suggesting that all water molecules in a snowflake crystal vibrate in harmony in a state of equillibrium violates the laws of thermodynamics.
Re:Why they're symmetrical (Score:3)
(Why do geeks so often get defensive when you point out gaps in science's perfection?)
Crystal growth and dendrite-formation are well-understood subjects within physical chemistry.
Not symmetries that are maintained over distances of a millimeter or more.
Suggesting that all water molecules in a snowflake crystal vibrate in harmony in a state of equillibrium violates the laws of thermodynamics.
Which law is that? Conservation of Chaos? ;^/
Re:Why they're symmetrical (Score:2)
The level of symmetry in snowflakes is infitely greater than that demo. All the little filigrees echo each other, and the 'mistakes' are attributable to fractures.
Molecular vibrational levels are Boltzmann-distributed at equillibrium
That's only for a random fluid, not a crystal in freefall.
obligatory haiku (Score:5, Funny)
nerds contemplate flakes
inspiring awe, wonder
as a good heatsink
2
each flake is unique
not unlike slashdot stories
oh wait a minute
Here's a fractal generated snowflakes screensaver (Score:4, Interesting)
Here are some nice fractal generated snowflakes [tenfootpolesoftware.com]...
...they're pretty cool to watch over your desktop after you turn off the stock background art.
6 (Score:1)
Funny that there is so much less-that-positve response on this article. Look at that natural symetry, always 6 sided.
You know, you are mostly composed of the same stuff as these snowflake: water. even carbon forms 6 sided bonds, in carbon nanotubes and with it's good friends oxygen and hydrogen.
You are peering at the fundamental laws of organization here. It's beautiful and it seems to hint at something, at least to me.
you know, your brain has dendrites too.
Now the question is; if we are made of all this stuff that forms 6 sided bonds why do we have 5's of seemingly everything else? By the way, I know this is just wanton meandering so don't take me too seriously.
in all actuality these are, after all, just snowflakes.
Re:6 (Score:1)
You can make your own (Score:2)
Really HIGH high-res pictures (Score:1, Offtopic)
why (Score:1)
awesome (Score:1)
This reminds me of the golden rule of the slopes: (Score:2)
more galleries (Score:1, Interesting)
weird snow pictures from afar [nsidc.org] and up close [usda.gov].
Dup? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Dup? (Score:1)
nice backgrounds for OS X (Score:1)
Ice-9! (Score:1)
Oh my god... they slashdotted Caltech! (Score:2)
That said, Ken Librecht is a really cool professor there who has done a lot of interesting stuff.
Lousy webdesign... (Score:1)
In my Mozilla preferences (Appearance / Colors), I have chosen to use my own colors and background insted of the colors and background specified by the page because I like reading my pages with black text on a white background.
When I went to see the pictures in the gallery (for example at http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/ph otos/pp01.htm [caltech.edu]), I was at first rather perplexed because I saw no picture. Just a blank page. But viewing the HTML source explained everything. The picture is as the background in a table, one cell high and one cell wide! WTF? Lousy webdesign by <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 3.0">.
Wow! (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.lpsi.barc.usda.gov/emusnow/stereo/ster
Also, look at the other electron-microscope images here http://www.lpsi.barc.usda.gov/emusnow/default.htm [usda.gov]