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Science

Be Thankful If They Just Snore 167

Posted by michael from the falling-falling-falling-splat dept.
The NYT is running has a lengthy piece in their weekend supplement about sleep disorders. Besides a certain amount of humor value, the article covers sleep terrors and sleepwalking and even weirder disorders.
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Be Thankful If They Just Snore More

Be Thankful If They Just Snore

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  • COBRAS!!! (Score:1, Funny)

    by AssFace ( 118098 )
    AHHHH AHHHHH AHHHHHH!

    • Re:COBRAS!!! (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Mrs. Krabappel: Alright, now who can pick out the predicate in this sentence?
      Homer: *screams in sleep*
      Mrs. Krabappel: What's wrong with him now, Bart?
      Bart: Night terrors, ma'am.
      Homer: Ah! Cobras!

  • It's no wonder... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Michael posted this somnabulistically.

  • Faithless (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Library Spoff ( 582122 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:48AM (#5203013) Journal
    having had some problems sleeping recently due to stress I can tell you it ain't funny...

    can't sleep cause you're stressed...
    this stresses you...
    cant sleep cause you're stressed...

    not much fun..

    and *everyones* got a cure:

    "tried lettuce sandwiches"
    "tried a piriton" etc etc.

    thankfully i'm sleeping again, but I don't envy anyone who has this all the time.

    • Re:Faithless (Score:3, Insightful)

      by KliX ( 164895 )
      I agree.

      I am a manic depressive, and on and off [who knows why] I get terrible problems sleeping - I end up either getting a tiny amount of sleep [1 or 2 hours] or no sleep at all [I know some people are happy with tiny amounts of sleep, but I feel shite with anything less than 7 or 8 hours depending on how hard I'm working].

      Sleep is essencial. We may not really understand it, but I'd never want *anyone* to be without it.

      Fox.
      • Have you tried Zyprexa? My dads manic depressive and he can't sleep very well when hes on a manic kick. His doctor prescribed it since it was kind of designed to help manic people calm down. Its also supposed to help with controlling the up phases and thus limits the down phases.

        At least for my dad the stuff works like a charm. He gets the smallest dose they make and takes 1/3 of a pill if hes having problems.
      • Have you tried large doses of TetraHydroChloride? I heard that helps alot of people calm down so they can sleep..
    • Yesterday, I couldn't fall asleep so... got up, took a shit, slept like a baby.
    • I only smoke weed when I need to
      And I need to get some rest
      I confess, I burnt a hole in the mattress
      Yes, yes, it was me, I plead guilty
      And on the count of three I pull back the duvet
      Make my way to the refrigerator
      One dry potato inside, no lie
      Not even bread, jam
      When the light above my head went bam!
      I can't sleep, something's all over me
      Greasy, insomnia please release me
      And let me dream about making mad love on the heath
      Tearing off tights with my teeth
      But there's no relief
      I'm wide awake in my kitchen
      It's dark and I'm lonely
      Oh, if I could only get some sleep
      Creeky noises make my skin creep
      I need to get some sleep
      I can't get no sleep....

    • and *everyones* got a cure

      One beer (or a glass of wine or whatever is your favorite poison) a little time before you go to bed. Might not be too healthy if it's a constant problem, but I think it's less unhealty than sleeping pills

      Hot showers and fresh sheets also helps, and you need fresh air and the right temerature in your bedroom. You'll need to experiment to figure out what makes you drowsy and/or makes the bed more comfortable

  • I've been there.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by OutRigged ( 573843 ) <rage@NOSPAM.outrigged.com> on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:49AM (#5203015) Homepage
    Back when I was around 7 or 8, I used to get 'night terrors', at least that's what the ER doctors called 'em, all the time.. They were incredibly realistic, and scared the hell outta me. I still remember running around the living room couch, screaming at the top of my lungs, because I thought an airplane was gonna fly through the window.. ..turns out it was the ambulance my Mother called. :)
    • I don't know how lucky you are to remember these things...I never remembered mine.

      I used to have this happen alot when I was 7 or 8 also, I guess I'd wake up screaming and running around in my house. A few times I'd wander around like a zombie, maybe even get dressed and walk out the front door. My sister tried to stop me one time and I punched her in the stomach. My parents decided to take me to get some testing done. I remember them wiring up a series of electrodes to my scalp (the stick-on kind) and they did their tests. I was fine neurologically, and the doctors said 'well he looks fine, it's just something he'll grow out of'.

      There's nothing more uncomfortable than doing some things you don't remember, had no control over, then the next morning you sit at the breakfast table and your whole family stares at you. Nobody says a word. Nobody talks about what you did. And you don't have any idea why everyone's being so quiet so you ask what's going on....

      Anyway, that was a portion of my life I really don't mention often, but I don't mind...it's something that I didn't control, and it went away by itself. I guess it's just a part of mental development for some people.
    • My daughter had night terrors. I can't tell you how glad I am she grew out of them.

      She'd wake up, around 10- 10:30 and just scream. Scream! I'd run into the room, and she'd look right at me, screaming at the top of her lungs. I'd ask her what was wrong, and she would just scream. After a few times of doing this, I began to take her in my arms, walk her into the kitchen, and sit on the floor, hold her, while she screamed in my face, and offer her a glass of water.
      After 10 - 15 minutes of screaming, she'd start crying, and sob in my shoulders, still with her eyes wide open. I would calmly offer her a glass of water until she said 'yes'. As soon as she did, I knew she had woken up, and then I'd hold her, take her back to bed.

      That 1 year was awful. I still see her face in my mind- eyes wide open in absolute fear. If you remember these- I feel for you. I know as a parent I'll never forget.

  • It's all pseudo-science... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ch1a ( 168446 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:50AM (#5203021) Homepage
    and I'll believe none of it until they produce a cure for sleep-kicking-your-boyfriend-in-the-shins.
    • I kicked and punched my wife while asleep when I was on Celexa. I'd have violent dreams, swing a punch, and somehow it'd reach into the real world and jab her. Lots of grasping and tossing dreams, too.

      Yes, kids, GRASPING AND TOSSING.

      It stopped when I switched to Paxil.

      So... kick, punch, it's all in the mind.

    • Restless Leg Syndrome (Score:3, Informative)

      by Kalak ( 260968 )
      The term for this is Restless Leg Syndrome and is treatable. It's similar to spasms in the legs. This can not only cause your partner annoyances, but can keep waking you up many times a night, keeping you from getting a proper night's sleep. (sleep that follows a restful pattern through all the stages of sleep).

      I am treated for this with medication and it has done wonders for my energy level. If this seems like a serious problem, find a sleep disorders specialist in your area. More information is available at Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation [rls.org].
      • Not RLS but I find that involuntary leg kick whilst falling asleep thingy seems to happen more often if my backbone has some nonuniform pressure on it, or is not in a comfortable position.

  • Try this (Score:3, Informative)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:53AM (#5203028)
    If you can't sleep well, you may be snoring and not know it...waking yourself before you enter REM sleep, restful sleep, etc.

    Try one of those over-the-counter throat sprays [Breathe Right - Snore Relief] that claim to reduce snoring. You might find yourself getting more sleep than you've had in years.
    • I can second this--I didn't know what a decent night's sleep was until I tried the Breathe Right Nose Strips. They're expensive, but when a former girlfriend told me that I was waking myself up, I realized they were far cheaper than other possible consequences (people with sleep apnea get into far more auto accidents--and at the time I was occasionally doing 12-hour trips in a car, alone).

      --RJ
      • I work for a DME (durable medical equipment) company and one of the biggest items we've been setting people up with is CPAP (Constant Positive Airway Pressure) units. These are for people who have bad sleep apnea or low oxygen at night due to the breathing passages being close by lack of control by the nervous system.

        CPAPs have a mask that you wear over your nose (now there is a giant cannula option instead of a mask) and a compressor pushes air into your nose. The output is measured in how much water cm3 it pushes. 4-7cm is avg.

        These units have helped a lot of people with apnea, and usually a difference is noticed within two-three days!

  • Joke.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by superspoon ( 644792 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:55AM (#5203032) Journal

    What do you call a nun who sleep walks?

    A roamin' Catholic


    source: joke.com

  • Registration Free Link (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:56AM (#5203034)
    here [nytimes.com]

  • No reg blah blah.. (Score:4, Informative)

    by TeknoHog ( 164938 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @07:57AM (#5203037) Homepage Journal
    using the archive [nytimes.com].

  • The king of all sleep disorders.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sawilson ( 317999 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @08:05AM (#5203048) Homepage
    There used to be this kid, can't remember his name,
    that hung out with me and my friends when we were
    between the ages of ten to thirteen. He didn't go
    to our school, but he was a friend of another kid
    that was a neighbor of a friend or something.
    I think that made sense. Either way, he would
    QUIT BREATHING COMPLETELY when he slept and you'd
    have to wake him up or he'd DIE. I can remember his
    mom explaining that it was some sort of condition
    and we'd have to be careful to watch him when he slept
    over. Needless to say, how the fuck are you going to
    sleep at all if you are worried some kid you hardly
    know is going to die on you? We'd take turns watching
    him sleep. I can remember him turning blue a few times
    because someone dozed off that was watching him.
    Sometimes we'd all stay up together bullshitting
    about life and watch him. We started to resent the
    fact that we had such a huge responsibility thrust
    on us just to hang out with some kid we didn't
    even like that much. It didn't help that his
    attitude was along the lines of "Oh well, if I
    die I die" and we were like "We are saving your
    life asshole!". I can remember when he just quit
    showing up one day and I made the joke that he
    probably died. There was one of those 5 second
    pauses then everybody busted up laughing because
    when you are young, cruel can be funny. We never
    did find out what happened to him.

    • Re:The king of all sleep disorders.. (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Sig:(This is where pathetic losers with no lives mention something about their karma, fans, or journal)

      Congratulations. You have managed to mention all three.

    • It's called Sleep Apnea. I have it too. Lots of people do and most don't even know it. Mine started when I was a teen. It sux! You get to have a new best friend though - a CPAP machine that forces air into your throat to keep your windpipe open when you sleep. Oh, did I mention the mask and head straps you have to wear? How about the air pipe that connects you to the machine so when you try to roll over at night you get caught in the tubing and choke anyway?

      Seriously, it can be a life threatening condition if not diagnosed and treated.

  • check out the cool things they did to cats from the article:
    Michel Jouvet and his colleagues in France in the 1960's made lesions in cat brain stems that prevented muscle atonia. When the cats went into REM sleep, they didn't lie immobilized in the dream world; they scrambled up, arched their backs and acted out all sorts of aggressive automatic behaviors.

    I was sleeping in a youth hostel once, and when I woke up, some of my roomates told me my "girlfriend" has visited at night.

    I've been meaning to record myself in sleep...but have been so lazy about getting a microphone ;-)
  • Dion McGregor [aspma.com] was like that guy who narrates his dream about the bowl ("Quit using the goddamn bowl for banging like that", from the front page of the article) and his flatmate recorded his amazing, bawdy, crazy dreams. I just bought the second CD (I don't think the first is available.) Amazing stuff. That link has some cool stuff and samples.

  • That's why (Score:2, Funny)

    by KrunZ ( 247479 )
    Michael don't you need a sleep? You have done all the posting for more than 24 hours...

    Ohh that's why you post this one...

  • I can identify with that... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Flounder ( 42112 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @08:18AM (#5203073)
    I've been diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea. According to the sleep lab, I stopped breathing 62 times per hour average. That's once a minute. My wife has told me that I've screamed at the wall, talked with her about problems with my code, and have actually punched her in the face twice. I have absolutely no memory of any of this.

    I've lost jobs because I fall asleep at work, because I don't get any rest when I sleep at night. My marriage ended because my wife was afraid that I'd do something to her or to the kids while I slept. My health is in the crapper, and treatments I've taken for this hasn't had any affect. I've slept 14 hours and still felt tired when I woke up.

    The article doesn't quite fully describe how hard this is on the patients. You are told that you do things at night, and you have no memory of any of it. I have accused my wife of lying to me when she told me I screamed at the wall for two hours one night. Things are happening, you are told you do things, and you have absolutely no control because you don't even know you do any of it.

    My doctor is close to recommending that I undergo another surgery to try to take care of this. I've already had my tonsils and adnoids removed. Now, he's recommending a surgery that would actually scar the tissue in my throat, causing it to tighten up and open the airway.

    • My father had a trachestotomy (I think that's what it's called) where they cut a hole in his trach, put a plug in it, and he pulls the plug when he goes to bed. Fixed the apnea problem.

      Downside is he can't go into water above his shoulders.

      • The trach is the final solution. They do everything they can before that final step.

        Going the trach route is something I just couldn't do. Hell, I'll deal with the problems, I just don't want to give up my jet ski and surfing.

    • Haven't you tried a CPAP? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I have OSA as well. In my sleep study I stopped breathing well over 100 times per hour. I didn't have any episodes of wierd behaviour like you, and I don't think that is very common for OSA either.

      Anyway, you should have been given a prescription for a CPAP. It's a machine like an oxygen mask except it just blows air from the room into your airway so it has a higher air pressure to keep it open. You sleep study should have determined what pressure you need to prevent blockage.

      CPAP is considered the 'gold standard' treatment and although it's kind of a pain in the neck to use, it give you a good night sleep and is worth the hassle. I never realized how run down I was from OSA untill I started using it.

      Surgury is not very effective at all as a cure and the worse your OSA is, the less benifit surgury will give. If you doctor is pushing surgury over CPAP, get a second opinion.

      Check out these links for more info:
      http://www.sleepapnea.org/dearfriends.html
      http://www.apneanet.org/
      http://www.cpapman.com/

    • Re:I can identify with that... (Score:5, Informative)

      by BWJones ( 18351 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @12:27PM (#5204356) Homepage Journal
      My wife has told me that I've screamed at the wall, talked with her about problems with my code, and have actually punched her in the face twice. I have absolutely no memory of any of this.

      Years ago I used to run a sleep lab and this behavior is not sleep apnea. You also sound like you have a primary diagnosis of sleep apnea, but this behavior is a sleep parasomnia, possibly a REM related dissasociation that might result from severe sleep fragmentation. From your other symptoms, yes you do sound like you have sleep apnea and I should say that surgery is only effective in about 50% of patients. More effective is something called NCPAP (nasal continuously popitive airway pressure) or BiPAP (Bilevel positive airway pressure) depending upon the application. It is a small mask you wear connected to an air pump to provide positive air pressure to your airway maintaining a patent pathway for while you sleep. It is cumbersome, but very effective. Ask your physician about it.

      Most of my patients also found weight loss to be dramatically helpful along with an exercise regimen combined with use of the NCPAP to maintain good sleep architecture. Also, posture during sleep can be important and I would suggest mechanisms to help you sleep on your side and avoid sleeping on your back.

      • I can offer my anecdotal "amen" to this post. My life has changed completely since I got my CPAP, and (almost) all for the better.

        I, like the parent post, woke nearly 100 times per hour. By the time I finally went to my doctor and TOLD him to put me in a sleep clinic, I had apparently not slept properly for over 15 years. After only about 2 hours of montiored sleep, they put me on the CPAP. I woke the next morning feeling like a completely new person. It was amazing.

        There are problems. The mask is annoying. It has to be cleaned regularly (daily). My insurance won't spring for the good humidifier and it can be painful when extremely dry Minnesota winter air is blasted through your nostrils. When you have a head cold, you are back to your "waking dead" state because the CPAP can't force air through an obstructed nose.

        The biggest annoyance, however, is that while I am again sleeping with my wife (which was limited by snoring for some time), the mask was designed by some geek who "wasn't gettin' any," because it vents air out the bottom, meaning that if you should absently try to be a little bit intimate while wearing it (cuddling or spooning), you are blowing cold air down her back. Not popular. Still, it can be fun to have it torn from your head when the right kind of enthusiasm is built up.

        Still, sleep is good. And it is worth every little annoyance to have it back.

        Apnea sneaks up on people, because it tends to come on gradually (often due to weight gain). You start to lose sleep and it gets progressively worse. If you snore loudly, if your partner wakes you frequently to shut you up, or if you have ever woken with bile in your mouth or unable to breathe, for goodness sake, go to your doctor and ask for a sleep study. You will be very glad you did.

    • My wife has told me that I've screamed at the wall, talked with her about problems with my code, and have actually punched her in the face twice.>

      You actually got away with punching your wife?

      I wish I had thought of that angle when I was married to my ex-cunt of a woman.
    • My wife never knew she had sleep apnea before she met me. IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN S.O., AND YOU GET TIRED DURING THE DAYTIME, sleep with someone or videotape yourself sleeping. If you stop breathing occasionally you need to go to a doctor for a sleep study / CPAP etc. The life you save could be your own.
    • Shit man, keep it up and at this rate, you'll have your own Fight Club in no time! More power to ya!
    • My father has just been diagnosed with apnia as
      well. They had him get a machine to help him
      breathing. It has made a very big difference.

    • Sleep apnea is one thing ... my husband has that, and can talk to me (or fight with me) in his sleep and not remember a word. But I had a uncle with severe sleep narcolepsy - and let me tell you that is such a trip. He was the type that would come over for family festivities, and you would always find him sprawled out in the middle of the floor of our basement. You could jump up and down on him, and he would never wake up. We were kids, and we would go upstairs to declare, 'Uncle Eddy is sleeping again.' But sometimes, he would sit in a chair, be half asleep (we were never sure) and start gabbing. We swear he was speaking a foreign language sometimes. He would have full conversations with you - it was very weird. His head would move back and forth, like he was really into this conversation he was having. You would try to talk to him, and sometimes he would respond, but always in a language of his own. Diagnosis wasn't good back then, but finally after many years, he was diagnosed, and put on breathing machines (same as sleep apnea) and such. But it was so bad he was not allowed to drive, because he could fall asleep at the wheel in an instant and not be in control of sleep. He never hit drowsy, he either slept in a dream state, or he didn't sleep at all.
    • Perhaps you're treating the wrong area. Now, obviously, you and your doctor should know more than I, but I was having sleeping problems and took care of a number of them by having my sinuses worked on. I had (in addition to having a seriously deviated septum fixed) what is called a "turbinate resection." My doctor suggested this after I told him that using Afrin helped me get a good night's sleep. (Can't use it very often, since I get really bad rebound effect.) If you've ever tried Afrin and it works, be sure to tell your doctor about this. You also might ask about a turbinate resection and whether they think it'd work for you.

      And, obviously, this info could be useful to more than just the person to whom I'm responding.

  • Got it, too. (Score:5, Informative)

    by budalite ( 454527 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @08:21AM (#5203078)
    I have sleep apnea. The fix for it saved my career, my marraige, and maybe my life. For years, I woke up 2-3 times a night. My wife told me of my snoring, my stopping breathing & gasping for air while asleep, etc. I was always dog-tired, taking naps every opportunity, etc. Went to the doc. He sent me to a sleep study clinic.
    Turns out a flap in my throat closes off and prevents breathing while I am sleeping. I thought something like that happened, but I thought it happened like one or twice an hour. Turns out, if untreated, it happens about every 15 seconds while I am asleep. The "cure" is a CPAP machine (controlled pressurized air pump, I think) that keeps a very small steady air flow (about 1/10th normal) down my throat while sleeping, to keep the flap, that closes off my breathing, open.
    Since using the CPAP, I now sleep normally. 8 hrs and then I am truly awake and alert, for the first time in maybe 15 years. This is a new thing for me. My medical insurance covered every penny of the clinic visits and all the CPAP stuff. (Since using this, I have gotten 3 doctorates, made $30B, and sired 47 children.;P) I do think that the life of my family has improved by finally having a husband and father who is "there" all the time. Well, as "there" as a geek gets. :)
    If you don't feel alert all the time, go to the doctor. Find out why. And if the doctor does not help you, dump him or her and go find one who will help you. Keep looking until you do. It really is worth it to see life without a haze of sleepiness.
    • Actually, it's Continuous Positive Airway Pressure.
  • In Mel's dream, he was struggling with a deer. He awoke with his hands on his wife's head and chin
    That sounds like something Homer would to in The Simpsons to his pillow... not a real life disorder. Some of the storys in the article are quite horrific - good read though.
  • Anyone who cannt be bothered to register and give your personal details the the New York Times remember you can use this login generator. [majcher.com]

  • Two Quick Points (Score:3, Informative)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @08:42AM (#5203114) Homepage
    1. The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Deer is a play on The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks.

    2. I can't believe that this article doesn't mention William C. Dement [stanford.edu]. He's basically the father of modern sleep research.
  • Once, I had a nightmare; I was in a kitchen full of beheaded people, and I rushed out only to find the sky darkening quickly.

    Then, a hand came out from the sky and grabbed me. Naturally, I began screaming at the top of my lungs, continuing to scream even as I was awakening, only to find my lover shaking me: "wake-up! wake-up! you're having a nightmare!" (no kidding!!!).

    I then realized that the "hand from the sky" was my lover shaking me... I started laughing, pissing-off my lover you would'nt believe (after that, I slept like a baby)...

  • Snoring is a big problem (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There are a LOT of people that have a problem with snoring. Apart from disturbing your partner (which is really bad for your relation in the long run), you don't get the sleep you need, which will make you tired.

    For many people, just loosing a few pounds will help.

    What helped me was snorban [snorban.com]. (I'm not in any way related to the company.) My problem is that when I sleep, my jaw falls back, which reduces airflow and makes me snore. The snorban thing makes sure my jaw is in a forward position during sleep.

  • SMAP (Score:1)

    by awx ( 169546 )
    My girlfriend sings japanese pop songs in her sleep...
  • One explanation for why people snore, and specifically have sleep apnoea, is that it is a defense mechanism of the body to prevent hyperventilation. Don't laugh, it's perfectly possible to hyperventilate in a fashion that is all but unnoticeable. Try to breathe normally and then hold your breath after an outbreath, and measure how long you can hold it comfortably and be able to resume your normal breathing without a initial gulp for air! (Don't do this however if it feels uncomfortable or if your diabetic, or you get palpitations). The number of seconds you can hold your breath comfortably is a measure of how well you tolerate carbon dioxide.

    40-60 seconds tolerance is optimal. If you have a low tolerance your "carbon dioxide thermostat" (capnostat) is out of calibration, and your body will start doing defense mechanism to counter the Co2 depletion by way of blocked nose, asthma, sleep apnoea etcetera.

    This kind of thinking is admittedly a bit unorthodox, but more and more people belive in it and practice breathing re-training, particularly in New Zealand and Australia. I am a firm bliever in it and practice it myself.

    The best info site on the net about it is
    this site [wt.com.au]

    If you speak Swedish check out my site andas mindre nu [andasmindre.nu] on the topic

    (Both sites are non-commercial)

    The technique of calibrating your capnostat back to normal is called the Buteyko technique after a Russian doctor who discovered the connection.

    /jeorgen

  • They missed a good one (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Liquidrage ( 640463 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @09:21AM (#5203199)
    Sleep paralysis.
    From the time I was 18 till 22 or so, I would occasional wake from a dream but still have the paralysis from REM sleep.

    It is the opposite of fun waking up and being totally paralyzed. Couldn't even talk. It would happen within a dream first as well. One time in a dream I was being chased up a hill by *something* and I slowed down to a crawl. Before long I couldn't move. Woke up. Couldn't move.

    Usually took about 5 minutes to wear off. The worse was when I woke up paralyzed one night face down on the inside of couch with my (now) wife sleeping on the outside but basically on top of me. My face was wedged down between the back of the couch and cushions. Could barely see anything, but I knew someone was on me. Nope, didn't like that one at all.

    http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html
    • "One time in a dream I was being chased up a hill by *something* and I slowed down to a crawl. Before long I couldn't move."


      This is how 90% of my dreams end, and I remember my dreams almost every night. About half the time, this takes the form of me being extremely drunk/stoned in the dream. I usually realize what is going on, and try like hell to make myself move again. This usually wakes me up. I don't recall being paralyzed upon waking, except for one occasion. I agree wholeheartedly, this does indeed suck.

    • This used to happen to me when I was a little kid all the time, grew out of it I guess. The worst part for me is that when I would talk to my parents/doctor, they would always make jokes about it, and generally didn't beleive me =P I remmember it scared the hell out of me at the time ;>


    • > Sleep paralysis. From the time I was 18 till 22 or so, I would occasional wake from a dream but still have the paralysis from REM sleep. It is the opposite of fun waking up and being totally paralyzed. Couldn't even talk. It would happen within a dream first as well. One time in a dream I was being chased up a hill by *something* and I slowed down to a crawl. Before long I couldn't move. Woke up. Couldn't move.

      I used to suffer that, though it was never associated with a dream (unless of course the state itself was a dream). I would fight seemingly forever to move a finger, and as soon as I could so much as bend my pinky I would immediately snap out of it.

      Probably not related, but once every few years I wake up in the middle of the night with apparently total amnesia. I won't have the faintest idea where I am. I always go through the same bottom-up procedure of knowing that I'm in a bed, recalling (with difficulty) where the bed is in a room, where the doors and windows of the room are, where the room is with respect to the rest of the building, where the building is w.r.t. the street, what town the street is in, and at that point I remember where I am and why I'm there. Notice that this happens when I'm home in my own bed, not when I'm off travelling somewhere.

    • I used to have that happen to me in my mid teens....and just like you said, I was running in my dreams (sometimes chased, sometimes chasing) and I would slow untill motionless, wake up, and not be able to move.....freaky as hell
    • I get that occasionally as well. Like others I have only been able to move maybe my eyeballs. I have found that if you hold your breath you will come out of it in no time. Forces your brain into full wakeup mode. Hope that one helps :)

      JOhn
  • One of the more interesting phenomena they don't discuss in the article in something called Sleep Paralysis [uwaterloo.ca]. You wake up fully conscious, but are completely incapable of moving. This is accompanied by a feeling of almost indescribable dread, and in some cases hallucinations of various sorts.

    I used to get the non-hallucinatory version every once in a while as a kid, so can testify that this is real. From what I've read online, it isn't a terribly uncommon experience either. Anyone else on Slashdot have it?
    • Anyone else on Slashdot have it?

      Well, I am not sure. The description of the symptoms [uwaterloo.ca] is eerily accurate.

      My experience fits: A1, A2, most of B2 (visual control, terror of presence, undecidable presence watching, auditory "hallucination" of breathing, visual "hallucination" of eyes as only distinct feature), and two of B3 (continuity of conscious experience, distortions of body image).

      My own explanation after I woke up seems rather reasonable, though. The site on which I slept, meant I looked away from the window, the cat sat before my face (reflecting the dim morning light with its eyes) and woke me during REM sleep.

      The feeling of distortion of body image is normal when I wake up during REM sleep, the "hallucinations" are explained by the cat, and the terror is explained by the combination of fear of something watching and sniffing, and the inability to move.

      The dread was extreme at that moment, however; even worse than when I woke up from gastroesophageal reflux with stomach acid in my lunges, my body used all air to cough, and I saw the colour of my face go through red and purple to blue.
    • I went through a phase a couple of years ago (I'm 28) where this would happen whenever I slept on my back. Looking at the symptoms listed I see that this not an uncommon factor! I'm surprised to learn this. Fortunately, mine weren't that bad. I felt an intense fear response but the conscious, observing part of my mind was always lucid enough to understand what was happening. It got to the point where, during such an episode, I could just reflect on how strange the experience was. I'd say to myself, "How odd: I feel terrified, my heart is racing, but this all feels more visceral than mental." It was interesting to have my body be "afraid" while my mind stood mostly apart from it and watched.
  • I thought he was a puncher...

  • Space Shuttle (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by PeterMiller ( 27216 )
    Columbia's lost, maybe Slashdot should runa story or somehting?

  • I used to sing in my sleep (or so I'm told :). In sixth grade at a camp with my class I sleep-walked. The next day I was told by the teacher that I had sleep-walked (she met me in the hallway), but I have no memory of that.

    • I used to sleep walk all the time when I was younger (on the order of about 5-9 years old). One time I remember being told about in particular was that I tried to drive the car (remember I was only about 8 years old) to, as I said it, "go play golf". My mom heard me go out the front door and found me trying to get the keys into the ignition.

      I've had a few other incidents but mainly just ones where I run into the wall and wake up or something.
  • Kent Brockman: "And as you can guess, this barely qualifies as news."
  • I'm not one to have a great deal of nightmares, just once in a while. Usually your average something's-chasing-you-can't-get-away type (well, average been a very relativistic term of course).

    Anyway, over the last few months I've had a rather interesting change. For some reason I am now able to control the outcome of these nightmares, as well as a lot of details in them. It's almost like going over a threshold - at a certain point I do not want the anxiety levels that the dream is causing, and I force a complete turnaround of events, completely dispelling the threatening nature of the dream. For lack of a better analogy, think Neo after he comes back to life - it's like I have gained a subconscious insight into the very structure of the dream, and can use that knowledge to manipulate it to my will.

    What I'm really curious about is if anyone else has/have had the same experience?
    • You have ceased to hae useful sleep. When your brain is "doing" work (ie manipulating your dreams) instead of just showing them to you... You aren't really alseep.

      I would suggest you drink more.

      (Well OK, that's not really great advice... but I'm busy and it will keep the OP "down" longer.)
    • Yeah...this is called lucid dreaming [lucidity.com]...
    • For some reason I am now able to control the outcome of these nightmares, as well as a lot of details in them.

      Yeah, I used to do this as a kid...I'd realise I was dreaming, and I could will things to change.
      But once the nightmare fought back and I spent the night trying to make the monsters go away, only to have them come back everytime I relaxed a bit. Stressfull night.

      And once (only once) I "woke up" in a dream, the whole dremscape just washed away and I was alone in "nothing", aware of being in a dream. That was fun, I started flying around (with my subcouncious providing a handy up/down reference), got tired of floating in nothingness, made the space shuttle appear (in take off) and had fun catching up to it and flying circles around it. Amazingly, it was actually a bit of a challenge to catch up to it, and I had to keep making a mental effort to keep my speed up, if I relaxed the space shuttle would start gaining on me.
    • This happens pretty often for me. When it does I usually decide to start floating around. It's fun. Sometimes I get randy and go around grabbing women's boobs. Let's hope I never become a sleepwalker.
  • From the responses I have read peopel need to take these thigns more seriously. While the unusal conditions like sleep walking, sleep terrors, and narcolepsy are interesting, it is obstructive sleep apnea that is the most common and dangerous.

    You can die from it! that's how dangerous it is. apnea is an interuption in your breathing. usually from a blockage in your airway.

    when this happens at night several things happen;
    1) it wakes you up. not to the point where you are aware of it, but it waks you out of a deep restful sleep to a light stage of sleep. this is why people are so tired all the time. this can happen hundreds of times an hour.
    2)it raises your blood pressure. when the apnea occurs it spikes your bloood pressure. it has been
    measured up 60 mm of Hg. this is what can break loose blood clots and cause stokes in the middle of the night.

    these are the 2 most dangerous affects.
    the number 1 cause of sleep apnea is being overweight, even as littel as 5 lbs overweight can cause it. and those of you who snore are suspect, snoring and apnea usually go hand in hand.
    how many slashdot readers sit in front a computer drinking soda all day? that doesn't help your weight.

    there is help though, there are doctors who specialize in sleep disorders. there are labs and hospitals that do testing like I used to do.
    there is surgery (I don't reccomend) and devices like the CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) that keep the airway open at night and stops the apnea from occuring.
    BTW my mother-in-law, uncle and father all have sleep apnea. it's more common than you think.

    there are many things medicine can do for sleeping problems but you have to go see a doctor that knows about sleeping disorders.

    google search [google.com]

  • Testimony (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MouseR ( 3264 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @10:11AM (#5203504) Homepage
    I thought I'd share my own experience with sleep disorder.
    About 2 years ago, extensive snoring, driving my wife nuts and keeping me from sleeping more than 5-6 hours or suffer intense headaches pushed me into seeing an ear-nose-throat doctor?an otho-rhino-laringologist.

    After discussing the situation, and examining my throat, he thought he'd knew what to do, but some tests had to be done to make sure of the steps to take to fix the issue.

    First, all wired-up like your typical Hi-Fi system back panel, and a forced-fed breading machine (augmenting the air pressure as you bread through a mask), I spent a night at home while being monitored. Back at the hospital (after some weeks--the free healthcare system in Quebec has it's drawbacks), the doctor just wasn't sure about the readins he had on the small "portable" machine. So, he suggested we redo the test in the sleep clinic of the hospital, using better equipment (aka, much less portable).

    In the ORL sleep disorder business, an "event" is a sequence of 10 to 15 seconds of halted breading caused by blocked airways--this is referred to as apnea. From 0 to 5 "events" per hour, it's considered normal (none being ideal), and can be caused by a bad sleep position, your dreams etc. In the province of Québec, at 15 events per hour, the government feels it's serious enough to do something about it and pay for it. I was doing 32.

    The ORL confirmed this to be the source of my headaches fatigue (due to restlessness and lack of oxygen during the night). In my case, the snoring was caused by oversized amygdalaes, and a soften (over time) soft palace due to years of snoring--as times goes, the situation usually worsens.

    If you want to know where the soft palace is, stick your figer up the roof of your mouth and slide backward (towards the throat). Where it gives in, that's where it is.

    My soft palace was weakened over the years because of the snoring, causing, by ricochet, the uvulae to swell up and further blocking the airways at night. Sleeping on your back worsens the situation because all the soft tissues fall back as you rest.

    Now, before you're too amused by the Fred Flintstone images and sounds, be aware that acute snoring can lead to severe health problems and ultimately, cardiac problems and even cardiac arrest. It's VERY serious.

    What was prescribed to me was what is known as a UPPP, an uvulo-palato-pharyngo-plastia. After documenting myself on the procedure and consulting a number of web sites about the issue. A google search on UPPP can lead you to interesting sites, such as this one [silentpartners.org] or this one [sleepnet.com].

    The alternative was to spend the rest of my life with a breathing machine, or to suffer the consequences of ignoring the remedes.

    I finally opted for the procedure. The first web site I refer above has a throat photo of the before/after surgery, which illustrate a bit what they did. They took out my amygdalaes, part of the soft palace (including the uvulae) and tightened the back throat tissues. Recovery from this was a snap (about 16 hours after surgery I was eating toasts--although I was told this wasn't typical).

    The result are amazing. I can not do the same 5 hour nights but be completely rested! I can do 12 hour nights if I want to lay down a bit, and not have headaches. I can concentrate better, I don't make a single whistle as I sleep, and overall feel healthier.

    There is a slight (5-10%) chance of occasional nasal-reflux with the UPPP procedure. Nasal-reflux is food that shoots up your nose if you're not careful as you eat. I've only gotten this twice since the procedure, about 16 months ago. It's easily avoidable, and basically involves changing your swallowing timing (the absence of the amygdalaes causes food to go down quicker in your throat).

    Another possible side effect to this surgery is not being able to pronouce the R (as in "farce") as we do in french (rolling the Rs). This is of no concerns for the anglophones, however. Hispanic might be affected. You still can pronounce Rs, but it's hard to roll then as we do in french.

    If you think you have a sleep disorder, ACT ON IT. Ask questions, get doctor referrals and begin your journey to a healthier life.
  • Mahowald said that when the patient saw himself on tape he was ''horrified'' but finally understood why he'd been kicked out of so many hotels.

    San Fran, April, 2000! I the guy in the room next to me (Sir Francis Drake, not The Drake) was Ho. Ho, Hoing all night. I went to the Concierge the next morning and mentioned it, and he told me the "Guest had been removed."
  • My brother used to do things like this when he was younger. There were a few weeks when almost everynight, he'd wander out into the hallway and start screaming and crying at the top of his lungs. Not the most pleasant thing to wake up to at 4 am.

    One time, he went into my parent's room and woke them up. They asked what it was he he needed, and he replied, "I have to do a walk around."
    "What? What are you talking about?"
    "I HAVE do to a walkaround!"
    At this point, he went back to his room, picked up a duffel bag, placed it in the center of the room, walked around it, then went back to bed.

    One time, while staying at a hotel during vacation, he starked walking around the room mumbling and talking to himself in an agitated manner. My parents woke up and asked him what he was doing.
    "I'm looking for MY SHOES!"
    "Why?"
    "BECAUSE I HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE!"
    Then he walked right out of the hotel room, and started wandering around the hallways.

    He never remembered doing any of this, and eventually he just stopped sleepwalking (the article said that it's fairly common for children 4-12 years, which fits). According to my dad, my grandfather used to sleepwalk as an adult. One time he got up in the middle of the night and peed on the family television. My dad claims it was becuase he secretly hated TV.
  • I can relate to the Lindsey chick the article mentions. I sleep 3-5 hours max per day. Sometimes I'm doing good to get 3. Either 3 before work, or three after work, or 3 sometime in the middle of my off-time. It just always depends on how I feel. I have no regular sleep schedule because I rarely get "sleepy" unless I've been drinking alcohol.

    When I force myself to lay down and sleep knowing it's for the better, I toss and turn for a good portion of the time, thinking. I can't say with any certainty how long it takes me to fall asleep. It's a very gradual process by which I go from being fully awake and aware to being in a surreal life. Sometimes life resumes as normal. The pizza I put in the fridge is still there and I go grab a piece because I thought I couldn't sleep, only when I put it in the microwave the microwave flashes bright blue (like a burnted lightbulb) and the pizza explodes. I realize it's a dream, and surreality insues.

    Sometimes the dreams are very mild and uneventful. My house is filled with flowers and exotic insects or I live underwater. Sometimes there is alot of bizarre action, and Escher like architechture isn't so uncommon.

    The article mentions attending one's own funderal? Done it. Killed myself. Killed people I know. Witnessed murdered. Witnessed my own, even. Plane crashes. Car wrecks. Natural disasters. But sometimes I have great dreams too. Sex dreams with famous beautiful women, or women I know in real life. Dreams about eating good food, or going on cool trips. Just about anything you could think if, I often experience in my dreams.

    It is a mix of both good and bad. Whichever it is it is very lifelike, and while I often know I'm dreaming and sometimes can control it, even that too varies from time to time. It has bled over into my view of the real world so that I remain calm in the most bizarre of situations, or the most tragic crisis. Sometimes I do this the whole forced "wake up" thing. Waking myself from inside the dream. I once thought just anybody could do it at least some of the time. I can do it a good portion of the time. I try and do it sometimes while awake, which leads to some very akward situations when I find that what I thought was naturally a dream was in fact real. (This works against me in dreams where I think I'm dreaming in the dream but try to wake up and can't, proving that I'm awake while still in the dream.)

    I've had long discussions about my lucid dreams with people, but it wasn't until my late teens that I realized how uncommon the whole thing is. Both of my parents and one of my brothers dream lucidly. I thought it was normal.

    The dreams have only become more intense as I get closer to my 30's. I sleep much less now and dream much more vividly for what seems like longer periods of time but is actually in shorter time spans. I have considered seeing a doctor, but I feared they would give me a medication that would "take this away". The article clearly gives the caption "is it a gift?" and I ask myself all the time.

    The dreams force me to "wake myself" so essentially my dreams are keeping me from getting good sleep. This is true. But it's not like I really feel like I'm doing so bad. I'm certainly not walking around in a total daze from sleep deprivation, at least not often anyway. As I said earlier on I don't "get sleepy" really.

    The only other "negative" thing mentioned that I think really applies to me is sleep talking. I have occassional bouts of two sided conversations with myself. I often wake up in hysterical laughter from very amusing dreams. I answer the phone (in my dream but also while doing so in reality) and have conversations with people that I only vaguely remember later on (more on this in a bit) and am later reminded of. I'm told I say some very bizarre, off subject things, make no sense (duh!) and often believe the other person is someone they are not.

    As for what I remember, I remember almost all of my dreams at least partially. Exact details aren't always retained beyond the first few hours after waking. If I don't dwell on a dream, I lose it within a few days and it becomes a fuzzy mess. Normally I remember most of the dream though, and if asked what I dreamt immediately after waking I can recall very sharp and precise details. As if whatever I dreamt of actually did just happen.

    I dream in color. I dream in stereo. I taste. I feel. And to top it all off I remember events of the real world, events that often happened in toher dreams, and (not so suprisingly) have sometimes had dreams that I know what's going to happen later on in the dream (think about that, and it's really not that strange).

    All in all I'm bothered by my dreams but I don't want to lose them. If I were to see a doctor, they would almost certainly make some attempt to make me "normal", and I'm not sure I'm willing to trade this "condition" with one where I simply don't remember anything for a good chunk of my life.

    Having said all this, gift or course, I wish I better understood what's going on. And I would gladly give myself to dream research if I felt I myself as a specimin could be useful to researchers. I just wish everybody could have a good "lucid dream" a few times they they would understand why I don't want to give up the great ones dispite all the bad ones.

    Flying over your home town with a sickening sense of realism is indescribable, even if it often ends in a dream about falling.

    • Tel'aran'rhiod [photeus.com] ;)
      -Rylfaeth
    • That is truly amazing, and I have to say that you're one of the few people I've read about besides myself that can actually do this ...

      My lucid dreams, for most of my life, were about someone or something "out to get me". They were monsters, parents, bullies, government agents, police, ex-boyfriends, animals, aliens, whatever. Anything and everything that could chase me, did. I could usually get away by flying or creating some kind of ingenious device to foil them .. but sometimes they would actually catch up with me. This would normally result in my waking up, but one time it didn't.

      During a mild chase dream where police were after me for talking to chickens, I was running from them on a wet street at night, and then I just stopped. When they caught up to me, they tried to arrest me but I responded with "Now look here! This is MY dream and I'm not going to have you arresting me in my own dream! So go away!" I believe they just agreed and left.

      For the next three years after that, my dreams were horribly boring and uneventful. There were no puzzles to solve, no monsters to elude or spirits to chase away, just ordinary "enjoyable" stuff. I think the most boring by far was the one where I was watching a kernel compile. (oh, excitement!). I longed for the adventure dreams so much that I actually got them back, but not in the same form as they used to come...

      Now it's me doing the chasing, which is very very strange. And I don't get to fly as often.
      • you think a kernel compile is boring.....try having your dream be minesweeper....just a plain ordinary game of minesweeper....

        i had been playing so much, that i was able to keep a game of minesweeper running in my head overlaid on my vision while in Calculus 2....i stopped playing shortly after
    • I've had my dreams go lucid a few times. Most of the time, when I'm lucid dreaming, I'm very close to being awake. If I get too excited I might accidentally blink into awakeness, which leads me to act very carefully when I'm lucid. I'm told I used to sleepwalk, but I was a kid then, and thats perfectly normal.
    • Your comments about flying made me remember a (rather weird) dream I had over the course of a few nights once... kinda like a mini-series.

      I had these, like, implant things in my feet. The sides of my feet looked like one of those Nike Air shoes with the little air windows or whatever that are clear on the sides by my heels. (I told you it was weird) I could jump really high, like over 2 story houses high, and eventually I taught myself how to use this to "fly" from building to building... kinda like spiderman with his web stuff. Various stuff happened, like tripping once and getting scraped up, flying through a window, etc.

      Dunno what it means, maybe I need to get a pilot's license or something ;-)
  • Nice timing for this article for me, and an interesting read, as I'm due to see a doctor in a few days about some sleeping problems... namely sleep paralysis and possible sleep apnea, I seem to be having symptoms of both - about once a week I'll wake up with a pins-and-needles sensation all over me, completely frozen stiff, and unable to breathe. I think the pins-and-needles must be from lack of oxygen. But it takes me a while to start breathing again - it's quite a struggle. One time I had an intensely loud ringing in my ears as well as the pins-and-needles. I'm starting to wonder if I'm stopping breathing a lot during the night without waking up, as I am quite literally always tired, no matter how much sleep I get! I wonder if anyone of you has had the same thing? I'd be interested to hear what you discovered if so...

  • I almost killed my girlfriend once... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm 31 and started sleepwalking when I was 12. Sometimes I will wake up during the experience and I have a fuzzy memory of the 'dream' that I've been acting out. Other times I will wake up in the morning with a huge bruise somewhere (one time I woke up with a broken toe) or things in the bedroom are broken and I have no memory of what happened. The scariest thing that has ever happened to me was when I spent the night at a girlfriend's house and woke up the next morning with a fuzzy recollection of sitting on someone's chest and choking them. I asked my girlfriend about this and she said she didn't remember anything but that her throat and neck were extremely sore and bruised. We were both pretty freaked out and I went to a sleep center after that but they didn't detect anything unusual (after all, I don't sleepwalk *every* night and it was hard to sleep at all with all the crap they had hooked up to me). I took the sleeping pill they prescribed for awhile but it didn't stop the sleepwalking and made me drowsy the next morning so I eventually stopped taking it. The doctors at the sleep center didn't seem to really have much experience with this sort of thing (I think they mostly had people in for insomnia and sleep apnea) so they didn't really have any real idea about how to treat it (since they hadn't detected anything in the study there's wasn't much to go on anyway). Im glad to see an article like this give more attention to the issue, although now Im worried Im going to get Parkinsons Disease! I got married a year ago and I'm terrified that one day I will wake up and my wife will be dead in the bed next to me. Perhaps Ill visit the sleep center again (it's been 8 years since I went last time) and maybe they'll have a better clue about how to treat me.
  • But there are all kinds of design and program errors that can happen in any complex system, and that's probably what accounts for a lot of the parasomnias.

  • This is where Al Qaida sneaks into your room and cuts your throat...

    Or is it where the CIA sneaks into your room and cuts your throat...?

    Or is it where George Bush dreams how his father had a high approval rating immediately after the Gulf War, and then a year later during the election he was considered a liability to his party because the economy sucked...?

    I can never remember...

  • Alternative sleep disorder (Score:3, Funny)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Saturday February 01, 2003 @06:46PM (#5206875) Homepage
    Get a baby. Preferably a bright one that's into everything and doesn't settle easily. Now try to put this baby in its own bed instead of yours.

    In the words of a friend currently going through the exact same thing I'm going through, "you'll soon discover why sleep deprivation is one of the world's purest forms of torture"...

    Cheers,
    Ian

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