Hardcore Waste Recycling 157
erf writes "Ok, recently we've had a story posted on composting,
followed by one on recycling wastewater into snow. Enough with the amateur hour stuff, how about the real thing? Joseph Jenkins has been thermophilically composting all of his family's food waste and sewage into compost for his garden for 24 years. Yes, he eats the food out of that garden too. All you need is a bucket, some sawdust, and a compost bin. You can read all about it in the
Humanure
Handbook. The squeamish might want to begin with the section on fecophobia."
"Mmmmm Sewage" - H. Simpson (Score:3, Funny)
Too bad we didn't step in it.
Dolemite
Gives new meaning to Happy Gilmore (Score:3, Funny)
Blah.
and... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:and... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:and... (Score:1)
Re:and... (Score:1)
It went berzerk in Phoenix 0.5 and kept telling me there was no disc in drive A:\ up until the point when all the form fields appeared.
Works fine under IE though. Just heads up.
fecophobia (Score:2, Funny)
it was called "shitscared"
spaceship earth (Score:5, Interesting)
Ancient technology (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ancient technology (Score:2)
Re:spaceship earth (Score:1)
But if methane tanks are outlawed... (Score:2)
*budump.... tish*
Re:spaceship earth (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:2, Funny)
I smell Profit!
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Then why does everyone covet it so?
I do something like this (Score:5, Funny)
Organic (Score:2, Funny)
so it must be good!
But its natural!
So it must be good!
lol
It's already been done... (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah. That was bad. I think timothy posted it, then Taco posted it, then forgot he postged it and posted it again.
Speaking of recycling (Score:3, Interesting)
still... (Score:4, Interesting)
prozac potato anyone?
Re:still... (Score:1)
It's the Thorazine I'm worried about. (If you've seen the pills, you know what I mean...)
-UF
Re:still... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe Joseph Jenkins hasn't had any disintery outbreaks in his home, but what if everybody in the neighborhood did the night soil thing? Liver flukes from the cukes, drops from the crops!
Re:still... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:still... (Score:1)
well if you don't clean your potatoes very well...
are you sure that only those chemicals that the plant recognizes get absorbed? even if they are water soluble, for example?
Re:still... (Score:1)
Re:still... (Score:2)
Re:still... (Score:3, Interesting)
www.erowid.com [erowid.com]
I got this info from Hallucinogenic Plants: A golden guide some old book my father had from the 70's
Re:still... (Score:5, Funny)
So you could say they all get pissed? And these humanure guys get shit-faced every meal?
Seriously, what is it about human waste that inspires all the wisecracks? We don't get this many even on "Big Dumb Corporation Shoots Itself in Foot Again" articles.
Re:still... (Score:2)
Tell you what I like, is those guys with the ponds and reedbeds at the bottom of their gardens for processing their liquid waste. It does urine and dirty water, and after it's been filtered by the reed bed, it's crystal-clear and ready to drink.
Re:still... (Score:1)
Where I live, if you install a new sceptic system within 50' of bordering vegetated wetlands, you will need special permission from the conservation commission, or risk jail time and mongo fines. I've had to deal with this type of issue recently. Unsurprisingly, the local volunteers who oversee this process were among the most incompetent doofuses I've ever encountered. Think about it: who would volunteer, gratis, to oversee their neighbor's business? Busybodys and people with axes to grind. No one should ever be able to volunteer to assume positions of power.
Re:still... (Score:1)
Just out of curiousity, just how and/or when is it fun to shovel one's own sh!t around?
why stop at human waste? (Score:5, Funny)
if I should die before I wake
all my bones and sinew take
put them in the compost pile
to decompose there for a while
when corn or radishes you munch
you may be having me for lunch
then excrete me with a grin
chortling 'there goes pete again!'
blog-O-rama [annmariabell.com]
Re:why stop at human waste? (Score:1)
blog-O-rama [annmariabell.com]
Poor Lee Hays (Score:2)
As a point of interest when Lee died he was cremated and his ashes were, indeed, scattered on his compost heap.
There is also a cowboy reincarnation joke I learned from Utah Phillips. I won't go over the whole thing, but the punchline involves another cowboy looking at a "meadow muffin" and saying, "Nope, you ain't changed a bit."
KFG
So many Slashdotters are hitting this site... (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, I had to say it...
[curls into a fecal position]
Re:So many Slashdotters are hitting this site... (Score:2)
Is this an intentional pun, or just an unfortunate (and highly topical) misspelling?
Humanure (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Humanure (Score:1)
Actually, as I understand it, it may not be a good idea to use milorganite on edible crops, because the stuff is composted from municipal sewage and contains more heavy metals and dioxins than, say, cow manure. There used to be actively dangerous levels of contaminants, but a great stink [purdue.edu] was raised (sorry) and now Milwaukee claims the stuff is much safer.
Seems your neighbors tend to dump all manner of evil stuff down the drain. Probably smarter to do your own recycling, if you're going to use manure on your garden.
who does number 2 work for? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe it's just me, but... (Score:5, Funny)
If you're grabbing human manure from Haitian orphans, you've got bigger issues than some possible pathogens...
--------
Re:Maybe it's just me, but... (Score:1)
If you're grabbing human manure from Haitian orphans, you've got bigger issues than some possible pathogens...
Thank you for that mental image. I am a sad and wiser man now that I know of at least one example of how the term "turd burglar" might be applicably defined.
Fear?!? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Fear?!? (Score:1)
Re:Fear?!? (Score:2)
What second or third world country are you living in? There's a big difference between the treated waste water that gets put back in to the ecosystem and 'night soil'...
Re:Fear?!? (Score:2)
Re:Fear?!? (Score:2)
Biomagnification (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Biomagnification (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Biomagnification (Score:4, Informative)
well, it seems like, (Score:1)
Re:well, it seems like, (Score:1)
Catch Phrases to Make it Mainstream (Score:2, Funny)
Humanure...the other brown meat!
Humanure...bet you can't have just one
Humanure....bet cha' bite a turd
Where's the humanure?
Throw another Humanure on the barbie
Humanure...come on down!
Heeeeereeee's...Humanure!
Re:Catch Phrases to Make it Mainstream (Score:1)
my dad uses... (Score:1)
My mother bitches all day from the smell when he puts it in the soil LOL
To revise an old saying... (Score:2, Funny)
Hmm (Score:2, Offtopic)
Well.. (Score:1)
level 5 vegan? obligatory Simpsons reference (Score:5, Funny)
Jesse: Yeah, but I started *before* it was cool.
Lisa: My name's Lisa Simpson. I think your protest was incredibly brave.
Jesse: Thank you. This planet needs every friend it can get.
Lisa: Oh, the earth is the best! That's why I'm a vegetarian.
Jesse: Heh. Well, that's a start.
Lisa: Uh, well, I was thinking of going vegan.
Jesse: [chuckles] I'm a level 5 vegan -- I won't eat anything that casts a shadow.
Lisa: Wow. Um
Jesse: Only at home? You mean you don't pocket-mulch? [takes out pocket stuff for Lisa to feel]
Lisa: Oh, it's so decomposed! Do you think I could join Dirt First?
Jesse: Well
Lisa: Oh, thank you, thank you!
Re:level 5 vegan? obligatory Simpsons reference (Score:1)
recycling bath water for toilet flushing. (Score:5, Interesting)
He used a large, old water heater as a storage tank, the water from the tub would go straight to the tank. When the toilet was flushed a pump would bring it to the toilet. It saved so much water that the water co. changed the meter on the house 3 or 4 times before they gave up...
There were several draw backs though... If not enough showers were taken (or conversely, too many toilet flushes) the tank would empty and get to the bottom "sludge" which was an orangish nasty that consisted of soap scum. This meant that if the tank was empty, the water would have to run for quite a while to fill the tank again. The toilet needed to be cleaned more often due to the soap scum. We had a nasty green toilet from the 70s at the time so it was harder to notice. The pump broke down once and needed to be replaced. It was a small price to pay for all the money we saved over the years.
Composting, shmomposting. Saving water is the way to keep more money to yourself.
Re:recycling bath water for toilet flushing. (Score:2)
Re:recycling bath water for toilet flushing. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:recycling bath water for toilet flushing. (Score:1)
Re:or a C++ programmer (Score:1, Funny)
flush and flush++
Okay ... NO (Score:3, Interesting)
We have war to worry about, losing our jobs to worry about, getting a job to worry about, and many other things where as much as I feel like a heartless bastard, I just don't care about how much trash I leave in a landfill somewhere I can't see it.
Out of sight and out of mind, we're all going to continue to use plastic and styrofoam, buy fast food, and dump god only knows what down the drains. As much as "every little bit counts" how much can you expect? I mean
Re:Okay ... NO (Score:1)
Maybe you should stop complaining about having no time to do all that important worrying you have planned and live a little more mindfully. Take a look at Your Money or Your Life [newroadmap.org] and realize that it's your choice whether to spend your time pursuing money or happiness. And you don't even have to eat dirt!
Seriously, if we're all too busy to consider the ramifications of our actions, what sort of future are we working for? So we'll be wealthy enough to afford clean drinking water?
Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:4, Interesting)
The REAL problem with using human waste as fertalizer is that MOST people don't just put thier shit down their sewer, they also put down lots of soap, bleach, and all the other nasties. By the time sewage gets to the treatment plant it's usually so chock full of heavy metals and toxic chemicals that there is nothing else to do with it except dump it into a major body of water and pray that dilution is the solution.
If you keep your piss'n'shit seperate from all the other stuff that usually goes down the drain, then all you have to do is let it set up for a while. Let it break down, an let the e-coli die. Then you're all set. Again, it's the exact same thing they do with cow shit. They dump it all in a big tank, let it sit for a while and digest, and then they spread it all over the fields that are used to grow your food.
So in summation
1. Food loves to grow in dirt.
2. Dirt is shit.
3. Human shit is no worse than x shit, where x is a vertibret life form.
Re:Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:1, Informative)
If you keep your piss'n'shit seperate from all the other stuff that
usually goes down the drain, then all you have to do is let it set up
for a while.
In fact this is exactly what people in rural or semirural areas who have septic fields have to do. My parents' house has a septic field, for instance, and you have to be very careful what you flush (and avoid some types of toilet paper). I recently cleared a patch of land halfway down their backyard at the bottom of the field, and there's a distinct methane smell there when the ground is broken. I'm planning on growing some potatoes and such (after the opium poppies
Re:Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:5, Informative)
Human shit as well as cat shit and dog shit contain numerous microorganisms which are potentially dangerous to humans. E. Coli is only one of many. To kill these microorganisms, the compost must reach temperatures over 160 Deg F and stay there for an extended period of time.
Sewage is not generally dumped directly in large bodies of water, it first passes through SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS (AKA Wastewater Treatment Facilities) where much of the nastiness is removed. The problem is disposing of the Stuff that was removed. The options being incineration, landfill, and composting. Just don't put that compost on veggies!
Re:Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:1, Interesting)
nonesense-that is only one way to do it.
Acid would work, or a strong base. or remove (or deplete) their food supply, they starve to death.
More to the point, the composting process involves numerous other microorganisims, which, if done properly, will either activly kill and consume the pathogens, or deplete their food supply, or create an inhospitable environment (pH mostly) This is why properly composted material is
NOT HARMFULL TO PEOPLE while the original material may be.
ps. dirt mineral? hardly, clay and sand, yes, but dirt? the more organic material in it (and less mineral) the better (but it needs some sand and clay)
Re:Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:1)
> and stay there for an extended period of time.
Actually, according to the book, 120 degrees F for a few days is all the EPA says is necessary. And the thermophilic (my word for the day [slashdot.org]) action from the microorganisms chowing down gets the temp up that high or higher: one section discusses checking the temperature, and apparently for a large properly operating compost pile, an inserted metal rod will get hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold in your hand after 10-15 minutes.
Re:Not bad at all, very good in fact! (Score:2)
No shit?
My mother and brother nearly died from... (Score:5, Interesting)
eating mushrooms that had been grown in night soil in China and then illegally imported. Over 200 faculty and students at Mississippi State University were hospitalized with severe food poisoning after consuming mushrooms at a salad bar. The government covered it up as less than 50 to try to minimize it, but the hospital records in the area tell a different story.
Night soil isn't used in this country because it isn't safe to use it. Any process that could cleanse human waste of all viral DNA would also cleanse it of all but the simplest nutrients and make it less valuable as night soil. Its not that it hasn't been tried. The problem has been and is still being extensively researched in this country.
The basic problem is that far, far more diseases can be passed from human to human than from any other animal to human. It is interesting that many of the societies with practices like these are also the breeding grounds for most of the new disease strains we are attacked by. Perhaps its not all because their citizens are treated like dispensable cattle. Or perhaps it is and like cattle, they're fed the products of their own waste.
Nightsoil and food (Score:3, Insightful)
Alot of it also depends on the source of the humanure. If you and your family are providing most of it, and you're generally healthy, then you should be OK. But large scale collection for application to commercial agriculture is probably a bad idea.
Re:Nightsoil and food (Score:2)
I am quite suspicious of the argument that if it's mostly from you and your family, and you're healthy, it's OK. You probably have guests who use your toilet, and you probably don't know all that much about their health.
Re:My mother and brother nearly died from... (Score:2)
Gives meaning to the Phrase: (Score:1, Redundant)
why is he composting his sewage? (Score:1)
Re:why is he composting his sewage? (Score:1)
Prions (Score:5, Informative)
What about prions? They're well known for their relatively high resistance to normal inactivation methods used to sterilize against typical microbial pathogens (e.g. irradiation, boiling, dry heat, treatment with acids or proteases). It's been shown that an infected rat brain needs to be autoclaved at 132 degrees C for 4.5 hours to be sterlized. I don't think your typical composter will do that. Neither will these things 'die' if you leave them out there long enough - for the simple fact that they're not living organisms - they're just sterically modified isoforms of regularly expressed human proteins. Of course, transmissible spongiform encephalopathies are pretty rare - and indeed, it isn't even certain how much risk humans are at from mad cow disease. But if your composting material is infected with scrapie-form prions, then, well, I'd be a bit concerned. Particularly in light of BSE: what if it's passed on from the cow to its feces, which is then used as composting manure?
No prions in poo (Score:2, Informative)
Not sure where the beta configuration comes from in the first place -maybe random -but one could imagine that given exponential growth with very low transmissibility then one would need several lifetimes (as in recycling nervous tissue) to develop the disease. CJD has a genetic component -maybe those people make beta prions right from the start but then take 50 years to show.
So the only way you can get it from poop is if there is lots of neural tissue in your shit -which is gross just to think about. Plus then your main exposure would be whatever stewed meat you had in the first place. (Indecently the reason why the Brits outlawed the beef on the bone is case there is more nervous tissue by the bone then a hunk of pure meat where there is almost none -oh and don't let hamburger fool you -they grind everything up to put in hamburger)
Don't take this as the word of God (as I usually like to be taken) It's been a tny bit since I got interested and I didn't pause to check my facts. Mostly a good jumping off point if you are casually interested.
Sorry for the double speak (Score:1)
Double ungood
Re:show me the prions (Score:1)
Yes, prions are largely found in the CNS. But if you're willing to eat food grown from the feces of someone with CJD, well, you're a braver man than I.
I first ran across this idea about 20 years ago. (Score:5, Interesting)
The idea was old even then, ancient in fact. The toilet works better with humus ( that's the topsoil type of humus, not the mashed up chickpea sort of humus, although I know there are people who claim there's no essential difference) than with sawdust. The humus both represses odors better and contains living bacteria to go right to work breaking down the fecal matter.
Of course doing anything like this and using it for compost in the garden is very dependant on proper composting technique. A *proper* compost pile gets quite hot naturally. You'll never see a compost pile properly maintained covered with snow, but you *will* see steam coming off of it in cold, wet weather.
If you're a bit squeamish about these things the obvious answer is to use your human waste compost to fertilize non fruit bearing trees and other ornamental plants.
One of the other uses of this sort of toilet is that it's the safest, cheapest and most effective self contained marine toilet I've ever seen. No valves to fail. No expensive fixtures. No song and dance just to use and no through hull fittings. It's the old "cedar bucket" taken to the logical and extreme development.
KFG
Re:I first ran across this idea about 20 years ago (Score:1)
I'd have to agree that for marine systems composting is a pretty good idea if you are going to port and unload it frequently. If not it could add quite a bit of weight over the 'pissing over the rail' approach. I'd also be careful how you placed a long-term system. It does generate heat and depending on how well your composting system is designed you might not want it near things that explode when they get warm.
What!?!? (Score:2, Funny)
Here the city takes care of composting. (Score:2, Informative)
You sort your garbage into 3 bags:
blue - paper, glass, plastic, cans
green - compostable stuff.
clear - other (landfill stuf)
It's a bit of pain in the ass but I think it's worth it.
Re:Here the city takes care of composting. (Score:2)
Re:Here the city takes care of composting. (Score:1)
Of course, that just meant that *everything* ended up in the recycle bags...
common sense and composting (Score:1)
as a result, rats found their way into our backyard and had a feast, and the neighbors reported us to the city, which then fined us and gave us X amount of time to fix the problem or some largely penatly would come about.
I was abolutely mortified and furious with her. she still didn't want to do anything about it, and for some reason failed to see how the rats and our "compost heap" were in anyway related.
that same batshit crazy woman thought she could teleport based on the electron tunneling theory, as well as turn objects into other objects (a bench into a banana), and of course she also felt she was psychic. she felt that she was evolving at a rate faster than the rest of us and was the bleeding edge of what human kind would become.
I on the other hand felt that she was totally insane and I feared her.
I'm very glad that she never saw this article, or she for sure would have tried to somehow follow it, but with slight variations that would have made the world of difference and embarrassed me even more so in my high school years.
I have no idea where that woman is now, but I hope she has since saught help.
Tastes like Chicken! (Score:1)
Definately gives new meaning to the phrase... (Score:2)
Pot Luck Dinner!
Seriously, imagine the looks on everyone's face if this guy showed up at a potluck dinner. He would probably be the only one "immune" to the effects of his dish.
-- Len
Municipal Composting (Score:1)
facilities for human waste?
The article talks about single composting
toilets. Are there any systems to handle
multiple toilets (neighborhood, or community)
that 'do it right' and get decent, safe
fertelizer?
honestly (Score:1)
The _Real_ Thing (Score:2)
> the real thing?
Ok. Take a look at http://www.ansci.umn.edu/dairy/dinews/composting.
> Yes, he eats the food out of that garden too.
Why not? You can't get a disease from yourself.
> The squeamish might want to begin with the
> section on fecophobia.
Not a problem. I'm a farmer.
Did you know that it was once a common practice to hang the outhouse out over the pigpen? (We don't do that anymore.)
Korea has been doing it for centuries! (Score:2)
kudos to the authour and publisher (Score:3, Informative)
following a link to the publisher's page i discovered that not only is the full text of the book offered freely online, but also the publisher provides complete dead-treee copies free of charge [jenkinspublishing.com] to non-profit organisations anywhere in the world
to my mind this is an extraordinary example of philanthropy and ecological activism
we will be ordering a couple of books and paying for them (as we have the means) but i would still like to thank the authour and publisher for their work and generosity
Re:Do they call him (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Do they call him (Score:1)
Moderators! Can't live with 'em...can pretty much do without them.
There's just no accounting for tastes, I guess.
Re:Some will dig this (Score:2, Funny)