Orangutans Helping Discover Our Evolution 31
DiZASTiX writes "An article at MSNBC says, Orangutans share distinct "tricks of the trade" for feeding, nesting and communicating. Scientists say these behaviors represent humanlike culture. The discovery offers tantalizing new clues about our own evolution. By documenting these behaviors scientists are finding more and more information on our past. We may be more related to monkeys than we think."
Orangutans are apes (Score:3, Funny)
No, I'm sure Michael did not mean to imply orangutans are monk-
Eek!
are not apes.
Ook.
Apes vs. monkeys (Score:2)
I think it was the submitter who made the goof rather than Michael. Monkeys have tails and apes do not. And there are only four ape species in the world: chimps, orangs, gorillas and bonobos.
GMD
Re:Apes vs. monkeys (Score:1)
I think there are a few tailless Old World Monkeys (like the Barbary Macaques, for example.) All the New World Monkeys have tails, though.
There are also two other "lesser apes", the gibbon and the siamang, I believe.
Re:Apes vs. monkeys (Score:2)
There are also two other "lesser apes", the gibbon and the siamang, I believe.
Interesting. I guess it's my turn to be corrected. I guess I was confused between "apes" and "great apes".
GMD
Apes are monkeys (wsa: Re:Apes vs. monkeys) (Score:2)
Re:Apes are monkeys (wsa: Re:Apes vs. monkeys) (Score:1)
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question660.htm [howstuffworks.com]
Unless classifications have changed radically in the last few years.
Re:Apes vs. monkeys (Score:1)
how can we be more related than shared ancestors? (Score:2)
If only monkeys had the same hive mind as we have.
You might want to eat an orang-utan but I'll gladly sit at the table and break bread with him/her.
Enabling Cultural Evolution (Score:4, Interesting)
The Science article [sciencemag.org] makes the case that observed orangutan behavior is more closely correlated with geographic location and opportunities for direct transfer of skills than to habitat (independent innovation). The authors then speculate that the common ancestor of all the great apes could have had this ability, and therefore, the beginnings of hominid culture could extend back 14 million years.
I find it interesting to speculate that something in our neural circuitry enabled early primates to learn from each other. I wonder if anyone within the human brain project [nih.gov] is considering this area of research.
Re:Enabling Cultural Evolution (Score:1)
Your missing the point (Score:5, Interesting)
NPR ran a nice piece on this today [npr.org], and used the example of a fruit which one population eats by getting it open with a stick (a picture [akamai.net] is included in the MSNBC article). A neighboring population seperated by a river, either eats the fruit by bashing it on rocks (much more inneficient) or by ignoring it as too hard to bother with. i.e. one population has learned to use a tool for specific task and has passed that information on the other Orangs in the community. Its the passing on of this knowledge, and the fact that it couldn't be passed to the neighboring population that makes this 'culture'.
From a SlashDot perspective, one could speculate that on the one side of the river, the solution for eating the fruit has been open sourced. But on the other side of the river, the solution was either never discovered, or if it was found, was closed source and died with its dicoverer(s).
Other examples given are a Kiss-Squeek gesture & sound, and "snag riding" a demonstration of male virility of breaking off trees and holding on to them while they fall, jumping off before they hit the ground (Orang candidates for the Darwin Awards [amazon.com] perhaps?).
Must everything be about Open Source? (Score:2)
You're right about the topical matter, but I just wanted to point out that it's OK to talk about science by itself, without trying to find an analogy to benefit the free software movement. Slashdot is supposed to be about nerdy stuff, not just Open Source software, however fun and nerdy that is.
Back on topic, the NPR story refers to apes as our 'ancestors', which of course they aren't, so be careful, and remember that convergent evolution is a common pattern in nature, so the anthropological benefit of this research still has some proving to do.
Of course, ignore my
Re:Must everything be about Open Source? (Score:2)
I think you are misinterpretting the article. The quote you refer to "the finding appears to whittle away a little more of the divide between humans and their ape ancestors." the way I interpret it is referring to the common ancestors of both the Great Apes and Modern Humans.
In the case of orangs, they mention that they split off from our common ancestors 14 Million years (which I think was earlier than Gorillas and much earlier than Chimpanzees and Bonobos - elsewhere I've seen 8, 6, & 5.5 Million years ago as the approximation of these splits). By finding that all living descendants of these common ancestors share a common characteristic, they are inferring that the common ancestor(s) also shared the characteristic (in this case - culture). Of course there is no way of knowing whether this is true or whether each of the living species developed it independently at some point in their evolution since the split.
Culture dominant (Score:2)
Precisely, it has now been demonstrated in all great apes that culture can dominate over independent innovation (not that it always dominates). Something in our evolutionary line facilitated the jump from individual innovation to group learning (culture), something that preceded language and human brain structure.
Re:call me stupid (Score:1)
My maternal grandfather was one Mr. Smith. My mother married Mr. Jones, so I'm a Jones. But my uncle had kids, and they are still Smiths. So I decended from a Smith, I'm a Jones, but there are still Smiths around.
This is an exact analogy for what you're complaining about. Starting from some ancestral ape, some of its decendants evolved into humans, while others remained apes.
Now go away, stupid.
man, that's a low standard (Score:3, Funny)
Re:man, that's a low standard (Score:3, Funny)
Re:man, that's a low standard (Score:2)
Re:man, that's a low standard (Score:2, Interesting)
What the orangutans also show is a desire to provide their fellows with these memes (i.e. to teach). That these memes exist, not in terms of individual orangutans, but in terms of *groups* of orangutans, in which individuals come and go, is what makes this a display of culture. In essence, orangutans have meme pools.
Sounds like a blast (Score:2)
The experts shared observations and spent hours reviewing videotape of orang behavior.
Man, and I thought my job sucked the big one...
GMD
Well... (Score:1)
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
haha (Score:2)
Oh god I just realized with horror that further down this discussion I'm going to see creationist comments. Damn. You go for weeks with nothing but average-to-smart people, and then the aggressive morons pop up out of the blue. Such is life.
Re:haha (Score:2)