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Science Technology

Friendly Plastic Pop Can Nearly Ready for Market 114

Posted by timothy from the not-a-flying-car-substitute dept.
drfishy writes "BevNET has the story of Toledo, OH based Owens-Illinois and their new pop can. The can is made of a "fancy" new clear plastic with a traditional aluminum top and should be in stores sometime this year. Consumers are supposed to like it because of the "cool" factor, manufacturers will like it because they can use the same equipment to fill and package them, beverage companies like it because consumers and manufacturers will, and advertising agencies love it because they can get rich making all new commercials to convince people it really is cool. Seriously though, I like the idea, enough to submit a story about it anyway..."
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Friendly Plastic Pop Can Nearly Ready for Market More

Friendly Plastic Pop Can Nearly Ready for Market

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  • Pop can? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Evro ( 18923 ) <evandhoffman@ g m a i l.com> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:39PM (#5000488) Homepage Journal
    What the hell is pop? I think you mean soda, or maybe coke, but certainly not pop.

    Obligatory link: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~almccon/pop_soda/ [caltech.edu]
    • So what part of which country are you from?

    • Soda?

      My word, do some people actually drink sodium oxide?!

    • You bake with soda, you drink pop. Coke is a brand of pop, like Pepsi is also a brand of pop.

      • Re:Pop can? (Score:1, Flamebait)

        by Evro ( 18923 )
        Nice try, but "pop" goes the weasel. You drink soda and/or coke. Pepsi is neither soda, pop, nor coke, but more along the line of "crap."
        • I'll give you the pepsi being crap and the weasel going pop, but soda is still a white powder that makes my fridge smell nicer and coke is the red cans in the fridge from which I drink pop.

    • Re:Pop can? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jahf ( 21968 )
      You know, the parent poll is as close to a troll as I am willing to reply to :)

      I've lived in enough areas in the US that I've been around most variations. It seems to break down like this:

      West: soda or pop
      Midwest: pop
      East: soda or soda-pop
      NorEast: soda-pop
      South: Coke or "fountain drink"
      Deep South: Coke (even if it's clear or fruit colored)

      I grew up with "pop", moved to where it was "coke", and then back to where it's "soda" or "pop". I generally call it soda or better yet, use a brand name, as soda seems to be understood everywhere. I definitely have had people not understand when I used "pop" before.

      The point? Not much ... except this is how culture develops ... and telling someone they are wrong (worse, that only they are wrong and other variations are ok) is ... well ... a troll :)
      • "Soft drink" -- a holdover from Prohibition times that's still used today. I've lived in the South, and I don't think I've ever heard "fountain drink" used except maybe to specifically refer to whether or not a drink comes from a can or a fountain. "Soft drink" is definitely more popular where I've lived, with "Coke" being the most often.

        (However, even living in Georgia, I've never actually heard anyone call any non-cola drink a "Coke." Ever.)
        • I was in Nashville for a few years and there it was mostly Coke or fountain drink (but you're right, only when in an establishment with a fountain).

          In Huntsville, AL it was hard to tell because so many people were not from there, but many of the natives used Coke or, yep, soft drink ... knew I'd forget something. Though one of my best friends would always refer to it as "getting a Dew" even on the rare occasions when he meant something other than Mountain Dew.

      • Having grown up in New England, and having lived in upstate New York, I can say that where I come from we decidedly do not call carbonated beverages "soda-pop." It's usually "soda," or "soft drink" if one is trying to sound more like a restaurant.

        "Pop" calls to mind images of popsicles, blow pops, and someone's dad.

        -ks
    • from dictionary.com... note: I am originally from the southeast USA, where I've heard any soft drink generally called 'coke.' (Coca-Cola is based in Atlanta, GA) This definition does note include 'coke.' I now live in the northwest USA and call it 'pop' like everyone else. soft drink n. In both senses also called soda pop, also called regionally cold drink, drink, pop, soda, soda water, tonic. 1. A nonalcoholic, flavored, carbonated beverage, usually commercially prepared and sold in bottles or cans. 2. A serving of this beverage. See Regional Note at tonic. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
    • Well, it is a pop-top can...

  • Red Dye #3 (Score:3, Funny)

    by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:39PM (#5000489) Journal
    Great! Another reason to add more and more garish artifical colors to my sugar water.

    Gimme some more o' dat green "Romulan Ale"!

  • I am from the Toledo area, history on Owens. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by heldlikesound ( 132717 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:40PM (#5000492) Homepage
    They declared bankrupcy after a huge loss in a class-action asbestos lawsuit. Then they went on to simply not pay many small design firms they owed money to. Pretty much puta few of them out of business. It was right around Christmas time too.

    Anyone think they'll pay these firms pay after plastic pop cans become all the rage? Yeah, me neither...

  • Define new? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Trak ( 670 )
    This can may be new to the market, but it's not a new design. I held a prototype of this exact can (plastic body, aluminum top) while visiting a friend that worked at a 7UP plant back in the early 1980s, twenty years ago. The can was clear green plastic with the 7UP paint job. It was empty, but sealed.
    • And I recall in the mid-80s when "clear cola" was launched, there were several different brands of soft drink available in Australia in similar, clear plastic "cans". They were kinda cool...
    • new clear plastic with a traditional aluminum top New? I was wondering about traditional. My grandparents say the traditional beverage top in the Olde Country is a flip lid or else just foam and flies.

  • but! (Score:4, Funny)

    by DonFinch ( 584056 ) <s2djfinc@@@vcu...edu> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:41PM (#5000504)
    how do you crush it on your forhead? A plasticy plunk is nowhere near as manishly satifying as the savory crash and pang of sweet, metallic destruction...
    • Manly?
      Uh, youngster... Crushing a can on your forehead, or with your fingertips, got its reputation as an amusing feat thirty years ago when the beverage cans were steel.

      I'll be impressed if you can crush it hard enough to melt it.
      But only impressed in a physics way, not a physical way.

  • So how do i recycle this can? Do i put it in the plastics or aluminium bin? By the way, where i live its not "coke" and not pop (doesn't matter if its sprite, dr pepper, or coca cola)

    • Re:and how? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Valdrax ( 32670 )
      By the way, where i live its not "coke" and not pop (doesn't matter if its sprite, dr pepper, or coca cola)

      Where exactly is this? I've always wondered. You see, I've lived in Atlanta, the home of Coca-Cola, for six years, and I've never seen anyone call any non-cola beverage a Coke. I've seen Pepsi, RC, and hundreds of knock-off store brand colas called Coke, but I've never heard a Sprite, a Dr. Pepper, or anything else called a Coke.

      Personally, I think the whole "everything's a Coke" bit is an urban legend.

  • How recyclable is it? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DaveOnNet ( 636006 ) <[dscotese] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:43PM (#5000519) Homepage Journal
    How do the recycling folks like it? What's the number in the little triangle? I suppose they'll have to separate the top from the body to recycle it at all. Gotta love that!

    • Re:How recyclable is it? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Jahf ( 21968 )
      I was about to post the same issue ... with my recycler, I have to separate plastics and aluminum before taking them to the drop off.

      Anyone know which is more environmentally sound to recycle: plastic or aluminum? I would have guessed the aluminum requires less energy and releases fewer gasses than plastic, but I'm not sure.

      If it's a matter of making the can cheaper to manufacture but more expensive to recycle, sorry, but I would rather the manufacturer pay for it than my local co-op recycler.

      If there is no downside to the recycling (and separation is still an issue) then it's a neat concept, but I just feel like aluminum is the more ecologically sound method right now. I would love to be proved wrong.

      • Yeah, I was all set to ask the "how will it recycle" question as well. Where I live, we seperate plastics, paper, glass and cans, with cans further devided between aluminum and non-aluminum. Until we moved out here, we could co-mingle (they used that word, I'm just parroting.)

        My guess would be that you are correct that currently aluminium is cheaper and easier to recycle. However, your comment "I would rather the manufacturer pay for it than my local co-op recycler" is a bit naieve. If the aluminum can is more expesive, they'll simply charge you more. That's not to say that, if the composite can is cheaper, they won't just scarf up the extra profit, mind you. If it is cheaper, it will allow them room to move the price down as necessary to encourage use of the new format, though. Once in a while that results in the price staying lower.

        • with cans further devided between aluminum and non-aluminum

          That's probably a waste. They'll still have to pass them under a magnet because of stupid people who don't know the difference, or lazy people who just don't seperate. It's not very hard to automatically seperate steel cans from aluminum cans.
          • If the stupidity or laziness of a few makes the efforts of everyone else useless (they still have to pass them under a magnet), then the industrious and smart people should rebel and pretend they're stupid to send a message that thier time and efforts are being wasted.

            However, the magnet that processes steel might be part of a system that can't handle aluminum and vice versa, so the magnet simply causes a small percentage of material to be rejected. In this sense, the stupid people generate rejected material, but the efforts of the smart people are not wasted. It would be interesting if someone who knew explained how the recycling system works.
            • If the stupidity or laziness of a few makes the efforts of everyone else useless (they still have to pass them under a magnet), then the industrious and smart people should rebel and pretend they're stupid to send a message that thier time and efforts are being wasted.

              I'm sure technology has advanced sufficiently from when the following happened to prevent it, since it was over 10 years ago, but this is why I bet they still have to pass all the cans under a magnet:

              When I was in high school I worked in the kitchen periodically (we all had to rotate through cleanup duty). We had a recycling program run by our trash collection service. They provided statistics for us comparing what percentage (by weight and volume) of the things we threw away went to the landfill or were recycled. They were printed on greenbar and hung weekly on the board in the office. The recycling bins for cans were the extra large barrels with the hook and bar on them to be auto-loaded in the truck. After removing both ends of the can and stomping it flat, you could fit about 700 pounds of steel in the barrel. One week the recycling percentage dropped dramatically. The reason, they explained to us, was that someone had put an aerosol can in with the metal recyclables, and it made the whole load useless when they processed it. It's a great example of the stupidity of the few making everyone else's efforts useless when it comes to recycling.

        • Re:How recyclable is it? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Jahf ( 21968 )
          However, your comment "I would rather the manufacturer pay for it than my local co-op recycler" is a bit naieve.

          Not in the least. I know I am going to be the one paying in the end no matter who bears the costs.

          The issue here is that my co-op recycler operates as a non-profit. They cover recycling costs with garbage [non-recyclable] fees ($2/can). I would rather the for-profit manufacturer deal with extra costs of bottling/canning than trickling it down to the local level.

          In fact, I'm purposefully paying -more- this way than if my recycler bore the brunt of the additional recycling cost (at least in the short term) since I pay nothing to drop off the recyclables.

          I'm willing to pay the little bit extra in the way of an aluminum fee to make sure I contribute that little bit less to the cost of recycling, thereby making recycling a more economical alternative and thereby making it more common.

      • Anyone know which is more environmentally sound to recycle: plastic or aluminum? I would have guessed the aluminum requires less energy and releases fewer gasses than plastic, but I'm not sure.

        Aluminum. Virgin aluminum is a bitch on the environment (in terms of pollutants and land use), recycled is a hell of a lot better. Of course, recycled plastic is even better than that.

    • Re:How recyclable is it? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Strange Ranger ( 454494 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @03:04PM (#5000753)
      AFAIK, "Multi-layer injection molded" plastic is not really recyclable at all. Maybe they can melt it down and use it for plastic packing bubbles or something where the properties of the plastic don't matter much. But when you take a piece of "Multi-layer injection molded" plastic and melt it down the layers all melt together like a soup, their different properties mingling together into a plastic "grunge" that isn't usable for much. There is no way to seperate the layers and end up with anything like what you started with, i.e, make another can out of them.

      That is, this product is FAR less recyclable than aluminum cans.

      As far as I know that is, I'm no expert.
    • In my area, aluminum cans are recyclable. Plastic containers are only accepted if they have necks (don't ask me why). So these cottles or bans (to coin two words) are not recyclable here.
    • well, that's exactly why i think it won't make it here(in finland).

      here all beverage/soda/juice cans have a pawn on them(15cents), the pawn-o-mats used to return the cans just crush the cans, so these plastic 'cool' cans wouldnt fit in. and they sure ain't going to replace all those automats for pointless one can.

      actually most people dislike cans around here anyways, except when trolling tax-free beer from foreign countries/cruises(note that these cans don't fit into the pawn-o-mats, theres a code on the cans that gets read).

      one major thing to include: NOBODY WILL BUY BEER IN PLASTIC CONTAINER!!! (even if the plastic wouldnt hurt taste)

      iirc the can return system makes them as environmentally friendly as return bottles that get used ~5-10(did a school project on the issue and this is iirc from few years back) times before crashing and making new(both plastic thick soda bottles and glass 0.3-1l bottles, they're not like the usual thin soda bottles i've seen elsewhere).

      • >>NOBODY WILL BUY BEER IN PLASTIC CONTAINER!!!

        they already do if you haven't noticed, there's been plastic bottles of shitty beer out for years.

        and if you drink beer out of a can*, you clearly don't have enough taste to care about what kind of container it comes in.

        * - a notable exception to this is draught cans.
        • cultural differences then..

          you don't want to troll few 24packs(4 per person isn't that uncommon) of glass bottles out from a cruiseboat and then from a bus to your home, 4 24packs of cans is much more convenient. and cans aren't considered bad for beer here.

          nobody would settle to drink beer from plastic container around here, maybe one could buy IF IT WAS cheaper(it doesn't really matter when drinking to get drunk, and got seperate glass), but the cost of beer doesn't really depend around here on how cheap it is to manufacture or bottle. 0.33l glass bottles is the number one way to drink beer, and there's (also pawned) good plastic packs that hold 24 glass bottles for them(handy as festival chairs&etc, also handy for getting the bottles back to shop plus they make a moody sound when shaked when loaded full, kilikilikili), beer also comes in 1l glass bottles but rarely anyone drinks from them except when drinking with lunch/dinner/or so.

          fyi, beer costs here rougly 1$ per 0.33l bottle(or can).

          (draught can=keg with valve?)

  • More garbage, less recycling (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrEfficient ( 82395 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:46PM (#5000541)
    Right now aluminum cans are recycled by many people because they bring a decent price and there are many places they can be sold. But plastic? As far as I know, there's no money to be made by an individual in recycling plastic and if there is, I doubt it's as much as aluminum.
    • Well, technically you can separate the aluminum from the plastic, but no consumer is going to take the time to do that - most people are still too lazy to take the screw caps off their plastic pop bottles before throwing them in the bin - and there is no way that it will be financially feasible for recycling companies to separate the aluminum from plastic themselves.

      Personally, this idea pisses me off enough to keep me from purchasing ever again from companies that bottle their beverages in these cans.
  • I was drinking out of these cans years ago (like 5 years). Yes, they looked somewhat "cool" becuase of the clear body, but they seemed to have disappeared. Was it becuase the contents tasted like crap? Packaging by itself isn't enough to make a successful product.

  • "It doesn't taste the same" (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tswinzig ( 210999 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @02:51PM (#5000609) Journal
    Before the soda connoisseurs get on here and try to tell us they're not gonna like these because the soda from the metal cans tastes better than the soda from the plastic bottles, keep in mind the aluminum cans' interiors are coated with some sort of plastic material.

    Otherwise the carbonic acid would react with the aluminum, and leave you with a nasty taste (I believe due to Aluminum Oxide? but its been a while since high school Chemistry).
    • i am by no means a conousour, but i can taste a diffence between caned, and plastic bottled coke, and i like the caned one better.

      i dont know anything about the manufactureing process of either, but i think the contents of the can, taste better then the bottle, and avoid plastic for soda containers as a result.
      • i am by no means a conousour, but i can taste a diffence between caned, and plastic bottled coke, and i like the caned one better.

        But Coke in glass bottles tastes even better still! ;-) Thank God they have started selling Coke in glass again!

        • Glass (Score:1)

          by sulli ( 195030 )
          yes. Glass is the vastly superior packaging choice - preferably the big reusable glass bottles.

          In Mighigan 10 years or so ago they still had reusable half liter bottles of pop (as they called it there). Excellent. I think these are gone now, though.

    • Re:"It doesn't taste the same" (Score:4, Informative)

      by Christopher Thomas ( 11717 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @06:57PM (#5002725)
      Otherwise the carbonic acid would react with the aluminum, and leave you with a nasty taste (I believe due to Aluminum Oxide? but its been a while since high school Chemistry).

      Aluminum oxide is not soluble and almost certainly doesn't have any taste (it's even more stable than silica).

      What you get after dissolving aluminum with an acid is hydrogen and an aluminum-based salt. This would be aluminum carbonate for carbonic acid, and aluminum phosphate for the phosphoric acid many drinks use as a flavouring agent.

      I left a case of coke unused for about 6 months once. Tasted very odd after the lining broke down.
  • This isn't news for nerds, it is news for marketing geeks. And those two groups are certaintly not the same!

    Really though, this is nothing new. It is just using old technology to try to make people buy more of something that everyone needs less of (put your own link to children becoming fat on soda/pop/cola/coke here please).
    • From the article:
      "Our PET cans have the body of a traditional can, but the soul of an O-I PET bottle," said David L. Andrulonis...
      This guy needs to "get out more" at least as much as your average /.er.

      DDB (who sees no need to migrate from the all-plastic 20-oz form factor)

  • "The Beverage Network" merits it's own website complete with a news and reviews sections...I am, however, completely dissappointed in the lack of a Mountain Dew review. I mean, wth?

  • this [attbi.com]?

    I remember these transparent plastic cans with standard aluminium top at least ten years ago, selling here in the UK.

    AFAICR, the drink itself was foul.

    • Re:How is this different from... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Cy Guy ( 56083 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @04:22PM (#5001436) Homepage Journal
      Yeah the technology is definately not new, this has been the standard format for tennis ball cans for well over a decade. The question is market acceptance and given the recycling concerns, I can't see that being too great.

      You can already get beer in plastic [plastic.com] bottles in the US but most people think the beer will not taste as good (for the Miller, Lite, and MGD brands that use the technology, taste isn't really a concern anyway - but somehow these consumers consider themselves beer conoisseurs if you change the bottling material). So given the limited acceptance of plastic [plastic.com] bottles I've only seen them at sporting events where it is prefereable not to arm potentially drunken disgruntled fans with glass missiles just in case the home team loses.

  • It looks like Slashdot has discovered a new source of income: turning press releases into headlines. It's far from original, but it works -- for a while, anyway.

    At least I hope Slashdot collected some money for the headline. If not, they're bigger suckers than those of us who read the article.

    • It looks like Slashdot has discovered a new source of income: turning press releases into headlines. It's far from original, but it works -- for a while, anyway.

      Newsflash for you, and for every other maroon who parrots the "Slashdot is selling out" / "Slashdot should charge advertising fees" lines; This is a site dedicated to news for nerds. Nerds like gadgets. They like cool toys, fast processors, high speed RAM, water cooling to make the best out of their new high speed toys, mods to make their toys look good, caffeinated products, sugary foods - how else is a news site supposed to tell people about these products without, oh, mentioning them by name? Are you going to clamour that they should charge AMD for announcing the Athlon 64 release to the market? Or they they should invoice Intel for announcing the Pentium 4 4.0GHz?

      It's news. Get over it. If you don't like it, go somewhere else and be uninformed. Stick to your Celeron 400MHz and thinnet LAN and quit bitching. It's old, and nobody cares.

      • I don't mind if Slashdot sells out. They're a business, after all.

        But promoting plastic sugar-water cans is pretty far afield from "News for Nerds". I don't see any way to turn these things into a microwave antenna. What's next, pearlescent eye-shadow colors? Britney's new album? (I'd better be careful, maybe Katz has already done those!)

    • It's worked for AP and Reuters for quite a while now.
  • Does this mean this can will keep my drink cool at all times?

    Or am I just expecting too much?
  • Does anybody else remember the old New York Seltzer plastic can just like this from the 80's? I remember everyone boycotting them because of the recycling issues. They stopped making them pretty quickly.
  • Ads for nerds, stuff that sells

  • Anyone else think of Star Trek IV when they read the article?

  • Japan has the opposite! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mcgroarty ( 633843 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {ytraorgcm.nairb}> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @04:24PM (#5001444) Homepage
    In Japan, you can buy bottles made completely out of aluminum. It's an aluminum can narrowing into a neck at the top with a traditional metal twist-off cap, and it's got a sticker around it which looks much like the decoration on a standard Coke can.
  • Now I can find the one with the finger in it without having to open them all!
  • or, more accurately, transparent alumina [rense.com].

    here's the prior-art non-patent application:
    Method for making recycleable transparent beverage containers
    • heat up some alumina really hot
    • form it into a tube
    • seal the bottom
    • fill the can
    • crimp on the top
    • sell it for a huge premium

  • Glacier Fruit Flavoured Drinks (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I remember in health food shops here in the UK there used to be a soft drink (flavoured water) in a can exactly as described.

    It was called 'Glacier' or something similiar, maybe glacial.

    Very refreshing fwiw as well, and this was at least 10 years ago.

    Nothing new here, move along.
  • I'm wondering how these "new" pop cans will compare to the old ones (if the "new" ones even succeed) in terms of keeping my Coke colder, longer. AFAIK, plastic is a better insulator than metal, but there are exceptions. Nevertheless, will it keep my cold drink cold (at least longer than in the old Aluminum cans)?
  • Caffine comes from coffee. Coffee does not come in cans. Or at least, good coffee does not.

    Unless they can convince the folks at Guinness to bottle me Draught in the techno can so I can see the nitro widget kick off, I really could give a rats ass less.



    1. Given the moniker of 'Silver Bullet', can makers have historically tried

    2. in vain to reduce the dangerous aura of aluminium beverage cans by
      adding saftey tabs, wider mouth ports, and even larger sized cans.

      Now with the technological advent of non-lethal weaponry, can makers
      have taken inspiration in the design of so called 'plastic bullets', hence the
      new handsome containers and confident consumers.
  • ...Coke and Pepsi sale drop drasticly as consumers finally see what kinds of crap they've been drinking all these years!

  • A clear plastic 'can' and that's it? We've had these for several years in the UK - it was indeed just a 'cool' market attempt. They also had small carefully-density-controlled jelly balls floating throughout the drink. Seems to have pretty much died by now.

  • Being a 23 year old woman, these things sound pretty cool. I can't wait to try them out. I bet they had people like me in mind when they made them (my demographic).

    But I wonder how dirty they get? Plastic seems to attract dirt worse than aluminum.

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