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Space Science

Chinese Launch 4th Shenzhou 43

Posted by Hemos from the marching-towards-manned-flight dept.
Heartbreak writes "Spaceref and others are reporting that China has launched its fourth and possibly final unmanned test of the Shenzhou capsule atop one of their Long March missiles---with a possible manned orbital flight to follow next year. The Shenzhou appears to be essentially a larger and more maneuverable version of the venerable Russian Soyuz. Aside from a boost to Chinese national pride, the point of duplicating Soviet space achievements of the '70's and '80's escapes me. Will they eventually send four men to the moon?"
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Chinese Launch 4th Shenzhou More

Chinese Launch 4th Shenzhou

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  • IN SOVIET CHINA (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Shenzhou launches YOU!!!

  • Aside from a boost to Chinese national pride, the point of duplicating Soviet space achievements of the '70's and '80's escapes me. Will they eventually send four men to the moon?"

    The point is that they don't have their own manned launch vehicle. If they want to have any sort of manned space program, they need to start somewhere, and why not with a proven design. You have to realize that given their current standing in the world it would probably be hard for them to rent out time on the space shuttle, which is the only other currently viable option for getting your ass into space. Unless you count in the gondola of a high altitude baloon.

    • Hrumph.

      I suspect there is little if any interest in any sort of manned space program. Rather, this is a nice cover for a testing program to work the bugs out of the missle guidance systems Clinton sold to them in the 90's. Notice how the "capsule" is nicely affixed to the top of a "missle". Curious, that. Whether they actually get a man into space is secondary, the real insterest is in being able to control the rocket over long distances.

      • Notice how the "capsule" is nicely affixed to the top of a "missle".

        A couple of questions, and a point:

        • Where would you want to affix the "capsule" to a missile. It seems to me that the top has been established as the appropriate position. If you have a design to allow the suspension of the capsule underneath the missile, I would suggest you get that patented as soon as possible. ;)
        • What else would you expect them to affix a capsule to the top of. A catapult? Would you be happier if they had called it a rocket, or a launch vehicle?
        • Placing quotes around something only makes you look like a "sarcastic bastard", and doesn't really help to make your point.
      • And to get a shuttle into space the USoA straps two missiles to the side of it. What's your point? Yes the Chinese rocket is just an ICBM with a different thing on top. OK there are probably more subtle differences, but in essence a missile designed to launch warheads across space and a rocket designed to put a satellite/person into space are going to br similar.

        The Titan rocket is just an altered ICBM, look up the Wikipedia article on it if you don't believe me. Of course you might well counter with the USoA and every other country was just developing launching capability for missile purposes. In which case I'll stop responding and you can move on and try to troll someone else.
      • Yes, space certainly qualifies as a long distance. What would you propose as an alternative to tests? Should they send people into space on top of a rocket and HOPE that it gets there because they didn't bother to try out their guidance systems?

        Something tells me you would be the first to post comments like "Leave it to the Chinese to not bother testing the steering on a multimillion dollar rocket".

        So N. America and Europe can build whatever rockets/missiles they want and clutter our orbit with more and more satellites, but heaven forbid the Chinese try to get someone into space! My Lord, they might discover something we didn't! We certainly can't have the world's biggest nation making contributions to research!
      • An inane post.

        One, the Chinese have been launching satellites for decades. They seem to have guidance in hand.

        Two, any ICBM is capable of launching a satellite by extending the boost phase a few seconds more. This increases terminal velocity from the approx 15,000 mph of a weapons-carrying ICBM to the approx 18,000 mph needed for orbit. By, extension, any rocket designed as a satellite launcher can carry a warhead.


    • Using the Soyuz design is a good idea.

      Not only is it proven, but now you can offer it as a life boat for the ISS, or join a shuttle mission.

      The technology for docking with Soyuz is something that the other two manned space powers also have, and that can come in quite handy for any future joint missions.

      If you want to join the club, learn the secret handshake.

    • The Chinese are expected to do their first manned launch sometime in 2003.

      Beyond that their plans are VERY ambitious. They plan their own space station, Moon landing by 2010, Lunar reasearch station, Mars landing, and Martian reasearch station.

      Basicly they are going to follow all of the old dreams. I hope to hell this manages to start a new space race. The competition might actually get us off the planet in a big way.
  • No, take five! They're small! :D

    Sorry. Mod this way the hell down.

  • If you think that way: Why explore America again, when the Vikings and Spanish already did it?

  • Short-sighted (Score:4, Interesting)

    by duffbeer703 ( 177751 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @08:51AM (#4981009)
    70's technology like the Space shuttle and Delta rockets are sending US payloads into space every day. The Soyuz spacecraft is/was providing essential supply replenishment missions to the ISS on a monthly basis.

    Dismissing a technology because it is old is a dumb idea -- the technology behind the Soyuz is tested and reliable, and I'm sure that the improvements the Chinese make will modernize the platform further.

    If NASA had invested billions in refurbishing the Space Shuttle, rather than squandering billions on a "Space Plane" that does the same thing as the shuttle, we'd probaly have a cheaper, more effective and more efficient space shuttle today.

    • Re:Short-sighted (Score:4, Interesting)

      by medcalf ( 68293 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:32AM (#4981472) Homepage
      If NASA had invested billions in refurbishing the Space Shuttle, rather than squandering billions on a "Space Plane" that does the same thing as the shuttle, we'd probaly have a cheaper, more effective and more efficient space shuttle today.

      True, but you have to go back further. If NASA had developed out the Saturn series further, and had worked on getting truly low-cost access to space (like this [rocketplane.com], perhaps), we would have a good heavy-lift booster (and the capability to use it to get to and supply the Moon and Mars) and cheap manned access to space. The Shuttle is a disaster in every way except as a technology demonstrator.

      • You are absolutely correct...

        Unfortunately in the US, the shrill cries of "How can you spend billions on space when x seniors are without prescription drugs?" or "We have enough problems here on earth" override the future scientific and economic benefit of space exploration & exploitation.

        • Re:Short-sighted (Score:3, Insightful)

          by medcalf ( 68293 )
          That is probably just a consequence of doing space exploration as a government activity. After all, there are people out there right now calling for the US to stop fighting the war on terror and focus on "the real problem" (prescription drugs, unemployment, fatty foods at McDonald's or whatever). Until the US stops discouraging private enterprise in space, and we get a private-sector example to go by, this situation will likely continue.
        • The problem is the Space Shuttle is anything but cheap. A Space Shuttle launch costs $600 Million, a Russian Soyuz launch is around $20 Million. The estimated cost of the Chinese launches is around the same as the Russians.

          There are cheap ways to get people in orbit, there are cheap ways to get large payloads into orbit, unfortunately the Space Shuttle is nither.
      • All that is true, but the the real failure is the inability to decide where to go. The Shuttle is, indeed, a politically compromised piece of 1970's engineering designed to cheaply haul stuff to orbit. Turns out it's not cheap, but now we have a truck whose only purpose is to build a truck stop (ISS). It's as if Lewis and Clark spent their budget building a houseboat moored at St Louis rather than setting out to the West.

        Better to set a goal -- a destination -- and build the infrastructure needed to get there. Go to Mars? Fine, then build the boosters and spacecraft to get there. Establish a permanent presence on the Moon? Fine, then do it.
  • the point of duplicating Soviet space achievements of the '70's and '80's escapes me.

    I think it's a 'retro' phase [slashdot.org] china is going through

  • Not duplicating, superceding (Score:5, Informative)

    by apsmith ( 17989 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:21AM (#4981405) Homepage
    The Russians have the only space tourism business going right now, based on very old (and reliable) Soyuz technology. The Chinese design is apparently an improvement - they mention better heat shields [space.com] for one thing. Note also that the Russian Soyuz capsules are only rated for 6 months in space and haven't gone beyond low Earth orbit; the Chinese have stated plans to to a bit more than that...

  • Slashdot and anti-China (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jman11 ( 248563 ) on Monday December 30, 2002 @10:57AM (#4981628)
    What is it with bringing down China on /. at the moment? It seems that due to China being behind the USoA and Europe that everything it tries to do, in a technological sense (see the Dragon chip comments), is demeaned as being about Chinese ego and sticking it to the West.

    The comments of "it's already been done - yeah by us!" and that "they should just use Company X's shit" seem to be bandied about with gay abandon.

    There are very good reasons for China to try and develop their own technologies, and for the most part they aren't about ego. More than what follows, but these are a couple.

    • One is self sufficiency: China has been a terribly unpopular country and to be secure doesn't want to be absolutely dependant on the USoA and EU for it's survival. In fact all countries do this for various items, it shouldn't be surprising that the world's largest does it too.
    • Another is that 1 billion people live in China and surely they could make a contribution to technology, but first you have to catch up to where everyone is. You can't catch up just by copying; you just have to develop it yourself. Do they teach automotive engineers how to designa car by showing them a Ferrari and saying "OK improve that?" No, they get them to design dinky little things and learn about what has already been done by others.
    • Also Western technology isn't always that good or the best. Maybe someone in China doesn't like the failure rates, maybe they don't like the implementation, hell maybe they just don't like the colour. For whatever reason some one in China thinks they can do it better and tries.
    • And this is the ultimate. Maybe one day in the future they won't have to put up with the sanctimonious crap from the USoAians and EUians.

    That's right, the continual we are better than you from the EU and the USoA. Where's the huge stink that the EU is putting up a GPS system when the USoA already has one there. What about all those dickheads in the EU (and some in the USoA) trying to build a new OS, we've already got a great one that is ubiquitous. That's right this is the EU, the EU is advanced and can justify what they are doing. China isn't and can't.

    Moderators, here's a tip. This disagrees with the majority opinion and is maybe a little controversial. So you must vote this "-1: Troll", rather than "+1:controversial" or "+1:thought provoking" (which you'll note are not options). Yeah and to end this note fork you.

    • Gayest Line Ever (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "bandied about with gay abandon"
    • Well, obviously you are out of touch. Here in the Grand Old Party, we know that the HEATHEN CHINEE are the source of all our problems!

      For example, clearly the problems with the economy are due to Clinton's pandering to the Chinese, as so ably and accurately documented in the conservative media.

      Another example is anti-Jesus candidate Al Gore, who is actually controlled by demon-worshiping chinese "bhuddists". Gore's treasonous challenge to the electoral process was clearly at the behest of his chinese puppeteers! This is also extremely well documented in the well-written and accurate conservative media.

      And anyone who says different is clearly in the pay of New York Jewish Liberals.

      All hail Saint Reagan!

      Thank you.
    • Where's the huge stink that the EU is putting up a GPS system when the USoA already has one there.

      "Huge stink" might not be the right phrase, but it's no secret [cbsnews.com] that the US government would be perfectly happy to see the EU's proposed Galileo GPS system scuttled.
      • Not talkking about the USoA govt, this is about Slashdot. The question is (fully fleshed out): "Where was the story and comments on /. saying this is a complete waste of time and trying to stick it up the USoA". Sorry if I didn't make myself clear and assumed the reader would be able to handle pronouns.
        • Sorry if I didn't make myself clear and assumed the reader would be able to handle pronouns.

          Hey, don't blame the reader. Your only mention of the Slashdot audience comes in the very first sentence of your post. The sentence that begins the section I commented on reads, 'That's right, the continual we are better than you from the EU and the USoA.' There's certainly nothing there about the Slashdot audience and it seems more directed at American and European public attitudes towards China in general. Which is a fair criticism, but don't blame the reader just because you didn't express yourself as clearly as you otherwise might have.
          • Yes, there were two implied groups of people.

            One was the /. complainers. All the references to complaining and what people said.

            The other was the USoA and EU.

            Nowhere in the original post was there any comment of the USoA or EU reactions or comments on the actions of China.

            It's not perfectly clear, but then neither is STFU (start thinking for us).
    • What China is trying to do is a very good idea. If it locally produces all its own 'stuff' (Computer chips, space craft etc..) it provides people with jobs.
      These people can now afford to buy more.
      There is a larger demand for products, and for a rise in quality.
      Therefore more people get jobs, and better ones too.
      Repeat until rich.

      South Korea and other Asian countries are doing just this to immense sucess. Japan did it, and they are a economic super-power.
      Think before you speak, people.
  • Um, look, missiles have WARHEADS, which are those explodey things? Remember those?

    Multi-purpose boosters can be outfitted with warheads, at which point they become missiles.

    You don't call the Soyuz a missile, and it's on the same booster as a Soviet nuke... can we try for some consistency, or is that too much to ask?

  • It is wonderful that they are making such progress with their space program. The Chinese and perhaps the Europeans will hopefully assume the responsibility for leading and inspiring the children of Earth toward such high and seemingly pointless goals. While the US heads into a downward spiral of wound-licking, and Russia grapples with REAL problems, at least somebody will still provide fuel for our dreams. I think I'll send them some money, to support my son's future -- to give him more to aspire to than mere fame or fortune.
  • While China continues to grow technologically as well as economically the world's attention is devoted to terrorism thanks to 9/11 - it's probably the best thing that could have happened to China. China was going to be the next USSR and now they have nearly a clear run at becoming an extremely dominant force on the world scene with very little harrassment from the U.S. while getting there.

    Doesn't the U.S. still have a pretty tight government hold one what goes into orbit? NASA is a government agency.

    What do you think would happen if China decided to "open up space" to the paying public? Well, the paying commerical public? I'm not talking about tourism, I'm talking about undercutting NASA for getting commerical satellites up in orbit.

    China is going to continue to become a bigger and bigger force in the world while our attention is on little ole bin Laden.

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