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Space

Europe Goes To Venus; Mars Comes to Us 172

Posted by michael from the frequent-flyer-miles dept.
JamesO writes "The BBC says that the ESA is going to Venus, reusing the Mars Express design. Also here. Launch seems to be expected in 2005." And knownsense writes "Space.com is reporting that Mars is coming to closer to Earth. It will be closer by around 191 million miles and will end up 85 times brighter about August next year. This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals."
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Europe Goes To Venus; Mars Comes to Us More

Europe Goes To Venus; Mars Comes to Us

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  • Metrics (Score:5, Funny)

    by trans_err ( 606306 ) <ebenoist@NOsPaM.gmail.com> on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:00AM (#4631005) Homepage
    Remember NASA miles not kilometers!

    ps. 1 mile = 1.6 km

    • Re:Metrics (Score:3, Insightful)

      by GoatPigSheep ( 525460 )
      yeah, that was a real shame what happened. It would be nice if the USA caught up with the rest of the world and started using the metric system.
      • IIRC NASA does use metrics, it was a third party developer which used imperial.
        • We're not talking about NASA here, but USA in general. The Imperial System should just DIE.

          Good:
          km. kg. Nm. kW. degree K.

          Bad:
          miles. pounds. lb/ft. horsepower. degree F.
          • oops, sorry, me misreading...
            But true anyway, metrics makes more sense, might be because I grown up with it though
            • Metrics makes more sense not just because we grow up with it. It makes more sense when formula are used - with the Imperial system one has to throw in a conversion or a magic constant once in while during calculations.

              SI units all based on 7 fundamental unit (IIRC).
              Formula make exact physical sense without redundant conversion steps or constants that come from nowhere.

    • Re:Metrics (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      > Remember NASA miles not kilometers!

      #1. Dumb, old, lame joke. +4 Funny?? don't waste my time. The signal to noise ratio around here is pitiful of late. why, back in my day, +5 funny was lethal and used against the germans (but with great care of course)..
      (nod to our german friends: the US is now run by an autocratic and jingoistic cabal, playing off the peoples' fears and emotions to promote their agenda of world domination. We even have an office of Fatherland Security. how times change.. go figure. )

      #2. ESA not NASA. The stupid joke doesn't even apply. Pay attention!

      ps. 1 mile = 1.609344 km. You just went splat.

      pps. It was really a engineers vs. scientists breakdown. Most engineers of the older generation still work in imperial units. The spacecraft was built by engineers at Lockhead Martin (or the like). It was run by Scientists at NASA, who by in large use metric for everything. Culture clash played a large role in a really dumb mistake. (I'd like to see you write a bugless program that has to work flawlessly the first time it is trialed in a real situation. )

      Conclusion: The metric system is unpatriotic.
      Damn the french! They've been planning for dominance on Mars for centuries!

      Criticism Part II: The slashdot story:
      It will be closer by around 191 million miles and will end up 85 times brighter about August next year.


      This reads like a perscription drug ad. 85 times brighter than what?? 191 million miles closer to where? Considering the Earth is about 92.5 million miles from the sun on average, and Mars is about 140 million miles out from the sun, and a mars year is approx 2 earth years, what's the big deal here?? We pass by close to Mars every 1.75 earth years or so.

      I guess I should stop posting RTFA.

      • Just like the Anonymous Coward said above, 1 mile is 1,609344 km. That's a difference of 0,009344 km for every km. Over a small distance, say from you to your neighbor, the difference is not quite important. But in this case we work with stuff in space, the distances are huge and that little difference would for sure cause the probe to miss its target.
    • Could be worse. If the ESA did that, not only would they have egg on their face but they'd likely face stiff EU fines for using non-metric units.

  • Faked Venus Landings? (Score:5, Funny)

    by malarkey ( 514857 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:00AM (#4631006)
    The US doesn't have any faked landing of Venus that we're covering up, I hope. If that's the case, Venus express will never make it.
    • "The US doesn't have any faked landing of Venus that we're covering up, I hope. If that's the case, Venus express will never make it."

      All the footage from the Venera "spacecraft," on the other hand, was filmed outside Novosibirsk.

  • how will this affect me? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zelphi ( 622531 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:01AM (#4631009)
    But will any geek actually get off his/her ass and look outside?

    Also, now that Life may exist on venus [216.239.39.100], will this lead to more interest in the oft' forgotten planet?
    • But will any geek actually get off his/her ass and look outside?

      Screw all that "outside" nonsense, get all the mars you want right here [usgs.gov], straight from the Mars Orbital Camera. Note, requires a special program [usgs.gov] to view the files, but it's free.
    • But will any geek actually get off his/her ass and look outside?

      Well, I don't know about you, but I am certainly getting off my arse (or ass, if you prefer) and getting out to Ceduna [ceduna.net] for the total solar eclipse in december.
      Admittedly, this is fairly easy due to living only about 8 hours away (This is Australia, 8 hours isn't considered very far)

      I'm fairly certain It would help to be outside to see the sun, although being inside would certainly stop me going blind!

  • Very Welcome News... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by trotski ( 592530 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:05AM (#4631023)
    This is very welcome news!

    Just the other day I was talking to a friend about why there is so much more interest in Mars than there is in Venus. There are plenty of difficult questions that more missions to Venus could answer.

    I'm very interested in what the results of this mission well be, there is after all so much to learn.

    Of course, we need an obligatory Simpsons quote here:

    "mmmmmmm..... gummie Venus"

    • Re:Very Welcome News... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stefanlasiewski ( 63134 ) <slashdot AT stefanco DOT com> on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:08AM (#4631035) Homepage Journal
      Well, Mars isn't necessarily more interesting, it's just more accessible.

      We can see the surface of Mars pretty well, probes that we send to the surface Mars will survive for more then a few hours, and it's possible that humans may go to Mars in the next 20 years.

      With Venus, sure she's pretty, but she'll turn you into a cinder really quickly.
      • "she'll turn you into a cinder"

        Sounds like someone I know.

        But seriously, this is why it is worth doing! Nothing ever got done by taking the easy way out! While I'm all for the Mars trip, and it probably should be first, I think we must go to Venus, because there is much there to learn, and because it is hard. The moon was hard once, and we did it. We can do it again!

        I know we won't get there soon, but I want to see us accomplish this by the time I die.

        The thing with Mars is that we know how to do it: We make a big enough ship with enough fuel to get there and back (Which we can do, it'd just be a lot). You put some hydroponics on board. It's tech we have.

        Venus would require the same, and a lot more to stay alive there. It's truly a new frontier; Mars is merely a barren one. There is something romantic about Mars, but Venus' environment will fight tooth and nail to keep us away from her.

        I don't know about you guys, but that makes me wonder that much more what color her panties are.
        • Nothing ever got done by taking the easy way out!
          Then how do you explain the wheel? That sure as hell is taking the easy way out.
    • We can kind of imagine ourselves living on Mars -- not that it will happen anytime soon -- while Venus really is a hellhole. They've had trouble getting spaceships to withstand the pressure, never mind the temperature, and the atmosphere has lots of nasty stuff in it.

      But Mars -- we can send cute little rovers to Mars, and it's that cool color.
    • There's a joke in here somewhere about geeks, women being from Venus, and men being from Mars, but I'm too busy hiding from girls here in my computer room to phrase it properly... *smirk*

  • Holst anyone? (Score:5, Funny)

    by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:05AM (#4631026) Homepage

    appear more than six times larger and shine some 85 times brighter than it appears now...

    Does that mean we can play Holst's "The Planets" 6 times louder and have a valid reason for when the neighbours complain?

    • Or blast the Gladiator soundtrack... Hans Zimmer ripped off Holst pretty darned well, especially the theme from Mars, Bringer of War. But he did it in a cool way, so he's forgiven.
    • Nah, you play it 85 times louder on speakers 6 times bigger.
    • *cue "2001: A Space Odyssey", 6 times louder*


      On a side note, whoever put the monolith up on the grassy knoll in Seattle on new years' 2001 has a priceless sense of humor. And they say Americans are no fun... ;)

  • Then why... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thinmac ( 98095 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:11AM (#4631044) Homepage
    Aren't we sending people there?!? If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space? I've gotten to the point where I seriously doubt the intent of NASA to ever send a manned mission further than the moon. They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.

    • Why indeed... (Score:5, Funny)

      by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:17AM (#4631059) Homepage

      [joke]

      Well it must be because NASA [slashdot.org] are waiting for the current schlock of Hollywood movies to wrap, so they can hire some of the biggest sound stages ;)

      [/joke]

    • does the fact that it'll be closer really make a difference when considering whether or not to send a mission to the planet? i wouldn't think so... i do agree with you, however, that nasa has abandoned their early pioneering spirit, and they should consider a manned mission to other planets.

    • Not much point right now... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by stefanlasiewski ( 63134 ) <slashdot AT stefanco DOT com> on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:39AM (#4631122) Homepage Journal
      Well, there's not much point in sending humans to Venus right now.

      What would humans do in orbit around Venus that can't be done from a remote station here on earth?
      "Hello Mission Control, the Venesian atmosphere is cloudy, and I cannot see a thing. I am about to launch the Venus probe with it's IR/UV/Radio-scannerthingamagig. BTW, I am still stuck in this tin can. I haven't experienced gravity in over a year, and my bones are disintigrating. The air is stale, the food is boring and I am about to go crazy."

      Before you even start thinking about sending someone to another planet, there's a zillion other things to think about first. How to build a ship, how to feed the crew, what are the long term effects of space travel, etc. We still have a ways to go. A Satellite could go there now.

      Remove satellites can do it far cheaper then a manned mission. If we're going to send humans anywhere, let send them someplace where they could acually walk.
      • ....then these so-called researchers and quasi-space agencies wouldn't have any excuse to suck down huge slices of budgetary bread, now, would they.

        While I agree that there are perhaps better ways to collect aggregate data that we don't now have, the drill seems to be the same...propose fancy manned mission off-planet and request huge budget.

        Seems to leave room for other countries to eat their Galileon lunch, eh?
      • Always with the "what are the long term effects of space travel" argument... You know the only way we'll ever know about this is to *gasp* send somebody on a long mission.... I don't know about you, but I'd be very happy to be a guinea pig for such science, and I'm damn sure there's a pile of people actually qualified to do it who feel the same way.

    • Re:Then why... (Score:3, Informative)

      by JesusPGT ( 624264 )
      This is just my guess, but I think that Radiation is a big factor. There was a story posted relatively recently on space.com about how astronauts on the ISS are getting more radiation exposure than they originally thought. And the ISS has earth's magnetic field to shield some of the effects, the trip to mars and back would likely give the astronauts radiation poisoning. Not to mention all the problems with being in microgravity for a year or more.

    • Two things... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:44AM (#4631139)
      One, it's not that much closer than usual. It's not a big enough deal to merit immediately sending humans. (But, the two sweet Mars rovers the US is sending next year, and probes from Europe and Japan, will take advantage of the close proximity of Mars to Earth on this orbit to increase data rates slightly.)

      Second, NASA doesn't set the priorities for what it does. It doesn't have much flexibility in how it uses its budget. Its missions and expenditures are determined by Congress in each year's budget. I assure you that there are many people inside NASA who are chomping at the bit to break humans out of Earth orbit (including many very high-ranking people inside the agency). But, Congress has to unleash NASA, and fund any mandate it approves.

      I'm with you, though, man. I want Americans to have the capability to go whereever the hell we want in the Solar System. :) (I'll settle for routine travel to Mars, though. :)
      • I want Americans to have the capability to go whereever the hell we want in the Solar System. :)

        I think the US government's priorities are currently a bit different than that. First we gotta go to Iraq. Then there are all those other countries that just won't follow orders.

        Once we get them all in line, maybe we'll think about conquering the rest of the Solar System.

        OTOH, maybe if we could convince Dubya that we were threatened by Mars or Callistans or Titanians or whatever, he'd have troops on the way as soon as Congress rubber-stamped his request for conquest.

    • orbital mechanics (Score:2, Interesting)

      by PhreakOfTime ( 588141 )

      If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space

      Actually, orbital mechanics are a bit more complicated than just being 'close'. Going to mars is not a straight-line shot, as it might seem. It involves more of a elliptical shape originating at the earth. Remeber, when you want to go to mars, you have to aim at where the planet will be in 18 months when you get there, not aim at where it is when you leave. If your in a moving car with a pumpkin and happen to be coming upon your ex's mailbox, do you throw the pumpkin at where the mailbox is when you release it, or where the mailbox will be when the pumpkin gets there.

      No, Im not a professor or anything, and no I have no links to prove my point, and Im sure a little googling would turn up a better answer, with some pretty pics too. Maybe I just watched Mechanical Universe too much as a child

      -SiliconFool
    • Aren't we sending people there?!? If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space?

      I believe our reluctance to go to Mars is proof of NASA being filled with geeks. I mean, when was it last that a self-respecting geek stepped out of his geekroom [slashdot.org]?

    • think of the technological possibilities after 50 more years, or heck, 500 more years, antimatter, fusion and such buzzwords.

      i've pretty much given up on sending manned spacecraft to mars/titan/whatever in next 20 years.

      luckily my life expectance goes 30y+ years.

    • Close is bad (Score:3, Insightful)

      by roystgnr ( 4015 )
      If you want to send people on the most fuel-efficient path to Mars possible (which is almost necessary just to get them there at all, unless you're using a rocket better than anything we've ever built), you use a Hohmann transfer orbit, an ellipse which is tangent to the inner circular orbit (Earth's) at one end and to the outer orbit (Mars') at the other end. Even with a nuclear or better propulsion system, you wouldn't just point the rocket towards Mars and fire, you'd take advantage of your existing velocity in Earth's orbit to cut a sort of diagonal path between the two.

      Either way, an extra-close approach of Mars wouldn't cut very much time off the trip.

      They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.

      Although I agree that NASA isn't what it used to be, I think you're missing the most important difference between 1960s' NASA and today's NASA: funding with blank checks.
    • Unfortunately NASA missions cost Money, LOTS of it. And recently Congress has seen fit to cut their budget. Even the once untouchable International Space Station budget has seen significant cuts. I don't think it's neccessarily that it's NASA wanting to not take risks, but more that they don't have the funding to properly take on a manned exploritory flight.

      Well, I guess they really could, I mean do Astronaughts really need suits, seat belts, and for that matter seats, food, happy O-ring seals, etc? They could always get off a mission to Mars Rocket Man style!

      -Runz

  • "85 times brighter"? (Score:5, Funny)

    by I-man ( 95468 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:12AM (#4631047)
    Is it just me or does that figure seem a little high?

    "Auggh, my eyes! Damn you, Mars, damn you right to hell!"

    • Re:"85 times brighter"? (Score:5, Informative)

      by freeweed ( 309734 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @02:12AM (#4631225)
      Is it just me or does that figure seem a little high?

      Not really. Astronomical brightness measurements are logarithmic, and they have to be in order for us to notice any difference. A small bright point in the sky that's twice as bright as another one.. the human brain/eyes sees them both the same brightness (for the most part).

      To really notice a difference, you need something on the range of 10X (or more) brighter. 85X from its usual appearance isn't THAT different, it'll just make Mars (normally a small red dot) look a bit brighter than Jupiter (a slightly larger red dot). If you've never watched Mars over the seasons, you may not be aware that it does this every coupla years, just not to this extent - the last time it got really bright was in the mid 80's - when Mars was almost as close (to within 2 million miles) as it will be this time around.

      It's happened before, it's been measured, and yes, it really DOES get a lot brighter.

      • Re:"85 times brighter"? (Score:5, Informative)

        by panurge ( 573432 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @04:16AM (#4631467)
        Er, no, your 10x is wrong.

        Most people think "an order of magnitude" is a factor of 10. This is actually wrong, and I think it is the origin of your mistake. An order of magnitude is the old naked eye astronomer estimate of the just reliably distinguishable difference in brightness of two stars. A real astronomical order of magnitude is actually the FIFTH ROOT OF 100, which is a factor of almost exactly 2.5.

        If objects differ in brightness by a factor of 2, you can easily tell which is the brightest if you can see them both together.

        The factors influencing the brightness of Mars are:

        • Its distance from the sun (inverse square law)
        • Our distance from Mars (inverse square law)
        • The portion of the illuminated surface which we see - the variation is much less than with the moon or Venus because the orbit of Mars is outside our orbit.
        I rather think this adds up to a TOTAL POSSIBLE variation in the brightness of Mars of 85:1. It will not be 85 x brighter under optimum conditions, just 85 x brighter than when it is as its dimmest. So don't expect a supernova effect.

        • Re:"85 times brighter"? (Score:3, Informative)

          by ErikZ ( 55491 )

          Well, that's reasonable to say that the astronomical "order of magnitude" = 2.5.

          But the reason most people think "order of magnitude" is x10 is because that's the basic definition of "order of magnitude".

          http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_ gc i527311,00.html

      • So I can't torture my enemies by forcing their gaze to the night sky?

        Spoilsports.

    • Re:"85 times brighter"? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 09, 2002 @02:16AM (#4631238)
      It goes something like this:
      • Mars will get 1.20 times closer to the Sun. That makes it 1.20^2 = 1.44 times brighter.
      • Mars will get 6.54 times closer to the Earth. That makes it 6.54^2 = 42.77 times brighter.
      • Mars is currently a 72% crescent, but will become ~100% full, which means 1/0.72 = 1.39 times brighter.
      1.44 * 42.77 * 1.39 = 85 times brighter.

      You can compare the solar system diagrams:
      today [heavens-above.com]
      08/27/2003 [heavens-above.com]

  • NEATO (Score:3, Informative)

    by werdnattarp ( 624316 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:14AM (#4631049)
    Astronomy is my passion, tech and computers always second. Although planetary exploration is not my forte, I have been paying close attention to all the recent probes/satellites/additions to ISS. Seems to me space agencies are pretty good at getting stuff done even though they're one of the first budgets cut. Cassini will soon arrive at Saturn and I am anxiously awaiting the flood of images from said sattellite.
    • Cassini -- not to mention the Titan probe it will be dropping off. I hadn't even heard of that until the first Saturn pictures were sent back. I have trouble keeping track of the alphabet-soup of probes, but when they start sending back data, wow. One of the single strongest images I have from being a kid was the Viking shot of the Martian surface on the cover of National Geographic.

      The NASA site has some excellent images, and individual project pages for people like me who need brushing up.

      "Neat-o."

  • mama mia... (Score:2, Funny)

    by updog ( 608318 )
    The Italian contribution to Venus Express will chiefly consist of a series of spare parts for various spacecraft components and a financial contribution.

    cool, a spacecraft with a fiat engine!

    seriously though, this article seems biased... why is focus on italy; e.g., quote "the italian problem"? doesn't that kind of thing (one nation not contributing as much as everyone else) happen all the time?

    • cool, a spacecraft with a fiat engine! .... why is focus on italy; e.g., quote "the italian problem"?

      Actually, I don't care if they use Fiat or Vespa, as long as they don't use their legendary charm and steal Venus... oh wait, Michelangelo [bronzeart.com] already beat us to it.

      But to answer your question, yes this thing of one team member not contributing as much as everyone else happens in all teams, whether they're intra-company, inter-state or international.

      In fact, this phenomenon is so common that the equivalent "good guy" response, complaining about non-working team-mates, is also equally common.

    • Lets hope it doesn't have Fiat brakes or steering.

  • Correction (Score:4, Funny)

    by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:17AM (#4631060) Journal
    Actually, it got much closer in 1951 [imdb.com]...

    Seriously, though, I hope NASA and ESA and the Chinese and private firms have planned well in advance to take advantage of this situation.

  • Coincidences and coincidences (Score:3, Funny)

    by TechnoWitch ( 82551 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:21AM (#4631072) Homepage
    And just think, just in time for a Neanderthal's party to win in the U.S. midterm elections!

    Coincidence? I don't think so!

    -----
    Paid for by "The Committee to Elect Edward D Wood Jr, Posthumously"

  • The Neanderthals (Score:5, Funny)

    by Liquidity ( 62369 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @01:22AM (#4631073)
    "This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals"

    Yeah, and look what happened to them!

  • The article states that next August, when mars gets the closest to it has ever been, it will be 34.6 million miles away from earth. The article later goes on to say that in 1988, Mars went through a similar (though less extreme) event that closed the distance to earth to 36.5 million miles.

    Now I know the 2 million miles is still a huge distance when you think about it, but that's barely a 6% difference. All the numbers about the planet being 6 times larger or 85 times brighter, when you get down to it, won't be perceptible by the average joe unless he's shown two pictures pointing out the difference.

    Unless mars starts to compete with the moon for being the brightest object in the sky, who really cares beyond some numbers geek being impressed at winning a celestial lottery? ;)
    • 1988 was 14 years ago! I don't know how rarely something has to occur to be rare, but this seems pretty rare to me. Not Halley's Comet rare, but rare enough to be a rare opportunity.

      Celestial lottery -- well, when is the next syzygy? Rare enough for ya? :) (Not terribly useful but interesting.)

      Speaking of timing, the Voyager probes were launched as a time particularly suitable for a "Grand Tour" of the solar system. Really remarkable, the way they used gravitational slingshots and careful alignment to visit all the gas giants with a small amount of fuel. I can imagine the calculations for getting to the Moon and back, but interplanetary probes -- wow.

    • Re:not all that rare, really (Score:5, Informative)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @02:09AM (#4631218) Journal
      The article states that next August, when mars gets the closest to it has ever been, it will be 34.6 million miles away from earth. The article later goes on to say that in 1988, Mars went through a similar (though less extreme) event that closed the distance to earth to 36.5 million miles.....Now I know the 2 million miles is still a huge distance when you think about it, but that's barely a 6% difference.

      Agreed. This is mostly a "numerical anomally" rather than something that is visually signficant. Close approaches happen about every 15 years or so, and most of these are probably within a few percent points of this coming distance.

      Although, it would be cool to come out side one night and see Mars close enough to find the missing Polar Lander with the naked eye :-)

      Mars is often a tough telescope target. Your eye has to be trained to see any significant detail on the disk. Otherwise it will just look like a small orange disk, roughly the size of a penny held at arms length through the scope, with maybe one or two dark but vague splotches and maybe light areas that mark one or both poles or some high clouds. A "slightly dirty pencil eraser edge on" is how I would describe the view.

      I was disappointed to see it at the city observatory at the last close approach. My little 60mm scope actually showed more detail (probably because I waited for a better time when it was higher in the sky.)

      I would suggest picking a good Saturn night if you ever go to a town observatory. Saturn, the moon, and Jupiter (in this order) make the most impressive viewing targets IMO. Mars will probably disappoint you visually. But it is cool to know you are looking at Mars, dispite the poor view.

      However, Saturn varies over time because of the ring tilt from our perspective. If you go during a year with a non-tilt, you won't see much ring detail. Similarly with the moon: it goes through phases (lighting angle), and some phases are not that great in a telescope. Jupiter is probably the only consistent object WRT appearence and appearent size. It won't shrink, darken, or tilt funny on you. Even the Sun's disk changes in activity every 11 years (if you view it through a filter and projection). Although it is true that Jupiter's red spot does fade in and out depending on the type of clouds it is next to, or if it goes behind the planet. But there is more to Big Jup than just the red spot. You can usually see 4 of its moons quite easily (as starlike specs) and at least 2 tannish cloud bands on the planet.
      • "Mars will probably disappoint you visually. But it is cool to know you are looking at Mars, dispite the poor view. "

        Not exactly. Mars disappoints very rarely. It has a distinctive red tinge. Infact when the sky is slightly hazy(due to vapour) like when all start are slightly dim, at that time mars is noticable because red light gets scattered the least. The best time is after it has rained and skys gone clear, the pollution leves are low, but water vapour content is high. Then you see the planed of war shine.

        Infact there is an interesting story. During WW2 over europe, Mars was very very visible!

        • Not exactly. Mars disappoints very rarely. It has a distinctive red tinge.

          I meant from a *telescopic* perspective. Yes, the color is quite distinct, but you can see that just with your naked eye and brighter yet with bonoculars.

          My personal experience is that the telescope does not enhence the color any from what the eye sees. (Unless bad optics make pretty rainbow tinges.) Then again, such things tend to be subjective.

          If you like red, then there are some nice red stars also. These are interesting because most are in their later stages of life, which our Sun will someday do also. IOW, looking at a red star is like looking at our solar system's future. Awe-inspiring and frightening at the same time.

          It would be like when people reach 70 years old, they bloat up into a big red blob, stay that way for a year or two, and then suddendly burst open violently. The old-folks home would be a bit more complicated to manage if that was the case.
      • I had built my own 6" telescope out of commerically made parts back in the 70's when mars was also at a close opporsition and well visiable. I think I was able to see the polar ice caps and some surface detail at 200X. Not too bad from NYC with a scope mounted on a home brew equatorial mount made out of pipes. I now have two 7" glass disks and hope to grind a mirror for a new scope, hope I can complete the project in time for mars in August. (If not mars will be close again in two more years, though not quite as good).

  • perseverance (Score:2, Funny)

    by torre ( 620087 )
    You gota love Nasa's Moto... If you don't succeed the first time, spend millions more in another attempt.... :)
  • think maybe - it wants to - uh - snuggle?
  • A collison between Mars to Venera...
    What a good nightmare!

  • I hereby make a request that Slashdot should prohibit linking of any sites in a front page story which use popup or popunder ads.

    All those in favour, say "I".

    (Note to moderator: a little leeway, please)
    • Popup ads everywhere!

      And they are larger than ever before since the Neanderthals walked the Earth.
    • I hereby make a request that people who habitually complain about popup ads get off their lazy duff and *do* something about it for a change. You seeing popups is your fault, not the /. editors' and if you can't be bothered to use a browser that turns them off, you obviously don't mind them that much.

      --
      Blissfully unaware of popups since Mozilla 0.9.3
  • I don't remember the Neanderthals being that close to us... well evolutionarily, of course, i'll give you that.
  • You don't know? Ever read the book "Men are from mars, Women are fom Venus"? Well, let's just say it translated poorly over here in Europe... and you know what happens when you get an Italian hooked on an scheme to get a woman.
  • If you are a Martian, than this will be the best time to order Earth pizza delivery for a good while. Better get your order in now in case there is a rush.

    It will also be a good time to give back all that junk that NASA keeps crashing on your planet.

  • Oh sure, it's just mars, RIIIIIIGHT! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gldm ( 600518 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @02:34AM (#4631269)
    "Hey! That looks like a giant flaming meteor headed straight for earth!"

    "No no, that's just mars. Mars is supposed to be extra bright this year. See how red it is?"

    "Are you sure? It looks like a life-exterminating meteor to me."

    "Nope, just mars. Definately mars. Nothing to worry about here. By the way, we'll be heading off to venus for awhile."

    "Venus? Why? What's over there?"

    "Oh nothing, nothing. Incredibly boring place actually, just clouds and all. Don't worry, the earth is perfectly safe, we'll be back later."

    "Are you sure about that whole not being a meteor thing?"

    "Of course. Got to be going now, want to have a good view."

    "View?"

    "Er I meant I'll be seeing you. After I'm back... from venus.... later."
  • The Neanderthals went belly up about 35,000 years ago. The article says that Mars hasn't been this close in 70,000 years. Therefor, Mars hasn't been this close since *two* Neanderthals ago.

    Neanderthal: the new unit of measure.
  • If only Orson Welles were alive to see this [transparencynow.com] ;-)
  • If we were ancient Romans we would be having orgys in the streets by now.

    I see dead people.....

  • In other news... (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by grahamsz ( 150076 )
    slashdot moderator michael actually manages correct use of a semicolon.

  • Invasion? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by codexus ( 538087 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @06:52AM (#4631622)
    This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.

    So that's the best time for the martians to launch their invasion fleet?
  • Why not send a manned mission to Venus? This planet is sending far too few people on interplanetary missions. I can't believe we still don't have a functioning lunar base!

    How is this planet going to survive on its own? IMO, we really need to start building settlements on other planets.Mars is probably a better choice than venus though, because of the somewhat less harsh atmospheric and temperature conditions.

    Nasa and Esa and the other ones are not daring enough. They should be given bigger budgets. Space is the future of the human race.
  • This I seem to recall was allready done by the Russians sometime in the 70's unfortunately due to the -- SULFURIC RAIN -- the drone lasted about 30 minutes or so before being disintegrated by the sulfuric acid. It sent back a few pictures before this however and that is all we have of that mission.
  • Let's see, Mars (God of war) is due to make its closest approach within a year and Bush is determined to start a war in the middle east also within a year. Coincidence? Maybe we should rethink this astrology thing.
  • This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.

    Now they can come back again ... And we [psu.edu] will be the Neanderthals this time ...
  • This is all fine and good, but we may ask ourselves, why? What is the point of going to the moon and mars and venus? Are we going to learn anything useful? We're spending millions if not billions of dollars on this space program, when that money could be used on SO MANY BETTER THINGS. I'm not being a troll, I'm sincerely curious.
  • Good enough reason to send a mission there....
  • (6) Men employees will be given time off each week for courting
    purposes, or two evenings a week if they go regularly to church.
    (7) After an employee has spent his thirteen hours of labor in the
    office, he should spend the remaining time reading the Bible
    and other good books.
    (8) Every employee should lay aside from each pay packet a goodly
    sum of his earnings for his benefit during his declining years,
    so that he will not become a burden on society or his betters.
    (9) Any employee who smokes Spanish cigars, uses alcoholic drink
    in any form, frequents pool tables and public halls, or gets
    shaved in a barber's shop, will give me good reason to suspect
    his worth, intentions, integrity and honesty.
    (10) The employee who has performed his labours faithfully and
    without a fault for five years, will be given an increase of
    five cents per day in his pay, providing profits from the
    business permit it.
    -- "Office Worker's Guide", New England Carriage Works, 1872

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