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Space Science

Low-Budget Indian Satellite Launch 275

Posted by timothy from the discount-pass-to-space dept.
Geekonomical writes "On Thursday afternoon, for a mere 15 million U.S. dollars, India launched a meteorological satellite into geo-synchronous transfer orbit some 36,000 kilometres above the equator using a modified version of its highly successful space workhorse, the polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV). The article also claims that China spends 12 times as much as this for a launch!"
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Low-Budget Indian Satellite Launch More

Low-Budget Indian Satellite Launch

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  • Cost effectiveness (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If they're truly doing that for a twelfth (what a horrid word) of the cost that China spends, the what the hell is China doing wrong?! Or does China send up a system 12 times better?
    • no, PSLV is proven and satellites work properly. The Cost reduction is primarily due to the fact that the components are indegenous with very less import content. Due to cheap labour and manufacturing in India the costs are down.

      Another reason for the low price is the ISRO(Indian Space Reasearch Org) does not have unlimited funds unlike china where funding is much more liberal, so cost cutting is high on agenda.

      • The claim that PSLV is 12 times cheaper than the Chinese equivalent is basically a self-advertisement. The DF5 ICBM's manufacturing is about US$15M ($100M yuan). Long March 3 series is based on DF5 ICBM missile's technology. Who can believe a Long March satellite lanuching rocket is 12 times more expensive than DF5!!! (check some of the articles in www.kanwa.com, probably last summer).

        As a side note: the Chinese space program is about 100% indegenous. DF5 was developed in early 80's. With a range that can reach US, Americans could not be the partner. Former USSR had a very bad relationship with China at that moment.

        Labour cost is not high in China either. All the lanuching pads are in remote area. The salary is really low. For manufacturing cost, most agree that China is lower than India... Well, India is better in more service-oriented industry, eg IT. No one is all-rounder, right?

  • ..a mere 15 million U.S. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Chicane-UK ( 455253 ) <chicane-uk@@@ntlworld...com> on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @06:27AM (#4280180) Homepage
    ..hell, at that price, I'll launch 3! :)
  • A common argument in populist economics is that jobs go to the third world because of lower labor costs. Others counter this argument that it is unskilled labor, and that high-end technologically advanced labor stays within 'advanced' economies (US, Europe, Japan).

    So-- is this a case that disproves the counterargument-- that even 'skilled' labor industries can skip to the third world, or is it an indictment against the regulatory pressures/infrastructure costs of trying to launch something under a US/EU umbrella?

    There is clearly a glut of satellite launching capacity, yet prices have remained high because?
    • perhaps more interesting is the possiblities for space ttourism, at 1/12th the cost of China (and presumably Russia) then the cost to an individual to travel into space could fall drastically in the next few years. It would still be ridiculously expensive but affordable to more than the excessivly wealthy. With sufficantly quick developmet in this field (and a sufficiantly good safety record even at a lower cost) India may set themselves up as the first extra terrestial budget airline.
    • At my University, there are plenty of older students from India and Pakistan who are trying to get a 'Western' education. I've sat in classes of engineers who can't get work cause their foreign education is considered worthless.

      So they end up coming here, just to find out that their education is worthless, and they find out they have to go BACK to University again here. I feel really bad for these people.

      So when people complain saying that immigrants are stealing their jobs in the tech industry, many times it's just not true. (or not as pervasive as some make it seem to be) The only immigrants that maybe stealing tech jobs are rich immigrants.
      • Rich immigrants aren't willing to work for an unnaturally low cost. Thus, in this case, its not stealing the job, but taking it fairly.
  • Horses. In space. Working.

    Does this not conjure odd images for anyone else?
    ^_^
  • But is India really a 'third world country.' A serious question for those with knowledge on the subject. As far as I know (which isn't very far) they have a sophisticated infrastructure, a thriving entertainment and arts community, and some decent universities.
    • Under the classic definition, India is in the "3rd world", in that it was non-aligned (neither US nor Soviet bloc).

      However, as the term has come to mean 'poor underdeveloped country', then it becomes a subjective opinion-- India has incredible universities and labor talent, yet there are still open sewers in the street...

    • Re:Pardon my ignorance... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      India is a quite mixed country, you have both extremes there.
    • That depends on how you define Third World.
      Yes India has great Technology and Infrastructure. But they also have massive poverty problems. They also have issues pertaining to Corruption and Nepotism in Govt.
      Then again, so does the US and Europe!
      Maybe it is cos they're not as much of a Consumer driven Society as the West? (i.e. not as many McDonalds on every street corner)

      Or may be they just have the wrong skin colour and hence must be considered a backward Third World nation that is a danger to everyone else!

    • But is India really a 'third world country.' A serious question for those with knowledge on the subject.

      Yes it is. The "world" designations are political, not economic - it just so happens that historically there has been a correlation between which World a country was in and its economic status. The First World is North America, Western Europe (i.e. NATO) and allies such as Australia and Japan. They tend to be classically liberal, democratic and capitalist. The Second World is the countries that opposed the First, the former Soviet Empire (the Warsaw Pact), Cuba, and so on. They tended to be the military/communist dictatorships with expansive foreign policies. The Third World is simply anywhere that didn't fit into the two categories. Usually when a Third World country gained the status of a developed economy, it would align itself with either one of the power blocs and cease to be really Third World.

      India is a secular democracy, mostly capitalist, but for its own reasons, it has resisted aligning itself politically and militarily either with First or Second World countries, hence de-facto Third World status.
    • India has been plagued by anti-free-market laws, red tape, corruption, and the corrupt influence of foreign aid for a long time. Rahul Jacob wrote:

      For decades, Indian businesses labored under the most byzantine regulatory system ever devised, a regime ruefully referred to as the "license raj." If they wanted to expand production, they needed a license. If they sought to import machinery or diversify their product line, that too required a permit. Like rats in a perverse economic experiment, businessmen scurried back and forth to New Delhi, seeking permission from government ministers and bureaucrats hypnotized by Fabian socialism and the power to say no--and occasionally yes, at a price. Despite limited attempts to loosen the regulatory stranglehold in the '80s, the license raj remained mostly intact. Not surprisingly, the system also inspired corruption, bureaucratic sclerosis and a tendency to seek monopolistic advantage.

      But in the 1990's, facing a major balance-of-payments crisis, India woke up and began significant liberal economic reform. The Narasimha Rao government proceeded to cut controls and open up the economy to foreign investment and trade.

      India's growth rate during the 90's has been 6% per year, double the rate before economic liberalization. There are still more reforms needed (such as privatization of state industries and reduction of agricultural subsidies), and there is a long way to go from a very poor country to a modern one, but at least they are on the track to that now.

      If India could reach and sustain a 10% growth rate, living standards there could improve nearly five-fold over two decades.
    • The problem is that a third world country isn't characterized by the high-end of the society (which the infrastructure, arts, and education all go to) but by the state of the majority of the country. If you have the money, you'll find that many of the more established countries (ones that were countries in their own right before colonialism) have many of the amenities that you have in the US. YOu get sattilite TV, cellphones, computers, internet, and certain services (particularly healthcare) that harken back to earlier times in the US, and blow the current HMO situation out of the water. BUT, these services are available to only a small segment of the population. The majority of people still live in a 3rd world situation.

  • So (Score:1, Funny)

    by zoomshorts ( 137587 )
    Is Pepsi gonna get in on this DISCOUNT space action? Strap the lucky winner to the nosecone and va va voom? Stretch those advertising dollars.
  • Just note that purposes/features/wages /etc are quite different all over the world, those numbers are hardly comparable.
    • Just note that purposes/features/wages /etc are quite different all over the world, those numbers are hardly comparable.

      Nope, they're entirely comparable. If you live in country X and want to put up you very own FOOSAT, then according to the article India can now do it for $15 million. At the moment, launching a satellite elsewhere would cost you $50-400 million, so that's pretty good savings for country X.

      Cheers,
      -j.

  • Forbes should update... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @07:00AM (#4280262)
    Forbes should update their Howto spend 1 billion dollars [slashdot.org] geek section, change 500 clones to mere 250 clones and 28 satellites.
  • Hopefully when the scramjets conquer the market, some time in the future, it will only be a fraction of that cost! :)
  • So, whoever with one billion dollar [slashdot.org] to spend could launch 66 indian weather satellites ! Very neat, I like that =)
  • ol' Indian rope trick [skepdic.com].

    Very Cost effective.
  • I am sick and tired of this debate. Everytime there is a news item about Inidia, we go into this debate of first world, second worlk and third world. Tell me something guys, is this really important?? I mean the fact is that India launched a satellite, why not just concentrate on that??
    I will tell you the truth about Infratstructure in Indian universities. Its pathetic. But this is also a fact that when U have 1 billion ppl and so few unis, the competition to get into a decent university is intense. Infact for admission into IIT( India Institute of Technology) about 300,000 ppl appear in the test and only the top 1000 or so make it. So to get admission into a decnt university in India, you have to be in top 0.33% of the population. Now atleast some of such guys( those who are not lured away bu US companies) join organisations like ISRO. They are already intelligent enough and soon they get grip of whats going on. Thats the story of India.
    But always remember, behind every thousand who made it, there are 299,000 who din't.

  • Strange... (Score:3)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @08:07AM (#4280429) Journal
    for a mere 15 million U.S. dollars, India launched a meteorological satellite

    That's strange, I would have figured they'd have spent their local currency on the project, not American Dollars.

    If you don't get it, just let it go, and move on
    • That would be 726,750,000 Indian Rupees (INR). But US$15 Million is more understandable by the international community than the rupee amount.

      cheers,
      max

  • Slightly OT, but informational (Score:4, Informative)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @08:19AM (#4280458) Homepage Journal
    (how's that for moderating my own comments? :-)
    Just FYI: SpaceImaging [spaceimaging.com] is the world's biggest supplier of hi-res satellite imagery. It would surprise many on this forum to know that 4 of the 7 satellites SpaceImaging uses [spaceimaging.com] are Indian (the IRS series of satellites are Indian satellites).

    India has a decent history (20+ years) of building and launching satellites. They have been helped along the way by the Russians to some extent, because the US refuses to sell them some of the advanced propulsion technology (like Cryo engines), which then they have to develop on their own.

    All in all, more competition is good, I say.

  • India has a history of satellites.. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @08:34AM (#4280538)
    India has been in satellite business since long, and currently the man who was behind all this, who has been the scientific advisor to the indian government, who has been awarded the highest civilian honour of the country, is its President. Dr A P J Abdul Kalam, President of India, has always talked about self reliance in the field of space and defence. This is one more step towards it.

    You guys working in big companies must have seen vision statements for a big company, which drives the whole company, but have you heard that India too has a Vision, and working towards it ?

    visit www.abdulkalam.com [abdulkalam.com] for details.

    Also, "Wings of Fire" the autobiography of the president, is worth a read.

  • India's Space and Missile programs are related... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's interesting that the new president of India was also the father of its space and missile programs - the PSLV is a descendant of the original Satellite Launch Vehicle, SLV-3, which was also the basis for a short-range SSM, Prithvi ("Earth"). Under Dr. Abdul Kalam's tutelage, the DRDO [drdo.org] embarked on an ambitious program to develop a suite [defenceindia.com] of missiles, many of which have either been inducted or are being tested. It's quite possible that his popularity as head of the Indian Space Research Organization, and later as DRDO chief, led to his choice as president.

  • Everybody seems to be missing the larger point here. This capability is the stepping stone to being able to put up spy satellites. In a few years India will be able to keep tabs on Pakistans cross border infiltration and nuclear installations, and hopefully, in the case of fundamentalists taking over( which I dont think will happen, Pakistan being to a large extent a fairly sensible country), be able to make a pre-emptive strike.

    If you want to learn more about the origins of this programme read Abdul Kalam's Wings of Fire. Its a very inspiring book. That Kalam is now President of India(which is a titular position without much power, unlike the Prime Minister), is
    itself a testament to where self-reliance and competition in science and technology can take one.

    Hopefully the programme can now be commercially self sufficient, and the pace of space exploration and missile defence research becomes faster. As you have probably realized in the last year, South Asia ia a tough neighborhood: a dictatorship to the west and east(Pak and Burma), the worlds largest communist state to the North, and ofcourse, central asia and the unstable 'stan's near by..

    Lastly, such development can only serve as a long term counterpoise to scary go-it-alonists and US supremacists like some members of this administration...
    • Hey, You missed the boat Pal. India had already put a spy satellite in space in the previous PSLV launch.A simple search at google gave a dozen stories pointing to this.

      On your other points I agree. India has a long standing succesfull space program. India has always invested heavily (relative to other internal investments) and is bearing the fruits now. INSATS (communication satellites),Remote Sensing sattelites, now a weather satellile, PSLV and other launch vehicles have driven indian Space program to new hights.GSLV (GeoStationary Satellite Launch Vehicle) is next, and then maybe a mission to the moon. All this would make India stronger as it helps India earn foreign Exchange and also all the new technology trickles down to the industry.

      I think putting spy satellites up there is not the main point and would not buy you much leaverage when you can buy such services on the internet!. But overall , growth of Indian Space industry would help India be stronger in other areas , including defence.

  • For comparison, how much do US launches cost?
    What about the European Arienne rocket?
    • For comparison, how much do US launches cost?

      Around $250 million for a shuttle launch, closer to $1 billion if you figure in base maintenance etc. Or $85 million for a Titan IV.

      What about the European Arienne rocket?

      $85 million for an Ariane 4, around $200 million for an Ariane 5.

      As usual, Russians manage the cheapest launches, putting a Soyuz up in orbit is figured to be less than $20 million.

      Do remember that these figures (courtesy of Encyclopedia Astronautica [astronautix.com]) are not all that comparable, because the above costs are the price of putting the entire thing in orbit, when in practice they carry multiple satellites. An Ariane 5 can also lift up a hell of a lot more stuff than the Indian PSLV.

      Cheers,
      -j.

  • Agriculture. (Score:5, Informative)

    by The Cydonian ( 603441 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2002 @11:16AM (#4281517) Homepage Journal

    It's not about spying or ICBM's or anything, the key factor here is, believe it or not, agriculture. I know other patriotic Indians have problems accepting this, but India is still largely an agriculture-based economy, with the population especially concentrated in rural areas. With the exploding population creating pressure on food resources, the Indian Council of Agricultural Research [icar.org.in] actively involves itself in creating better yielding food varieties .

    Students of Indian history would have heard about the green revolution [indiaonestop.com] that created self-sustainence in food; a crucial post-independence achievement considering food scarcity situations such as the 1943 Bengal Famine (the one on which Amartya Sen [nobel.se] did economic research [commerce.ubc.ca] and won the 1998 Nobel Prize for Economics [nobel.se]).

    Now with satellite technology, ICAR can identify which land areas are suitable for which crops and therefore goad farmers into growing those varieties (remember that India is a sub-continent; you have all sorts of terrain, from deserts [nasa.gov] to plains [sanctuaryasia.com] to plateaus [worldwildlife.org] to, of course, mountains [garhwalhimalayas.com].

    So accurately knowing which crop goes best where is critical information for the hungry masses (over-cliched, but it's true). Methinks that this will be the biggest use, followed closely by telecommunications [space.com] and satellite television [ddindia.net] AND then by urban planning (Mumbai will have 24.7 million people by 2005).

    PS:- Note that I'm not saying that satellite technology wont be used for other purposes; I definitely want India to use cutting-edge technology against a couple of motherfuckers [navy.mil], but talking only about that would be misleading.

  • As the person who represented the grassroots attempt to reform commercial launch policy in the US [geocities.com], I just want to say this commercial launch by a non-Western nation is the best news since the invention of the transistor [geocities.com]!


    Sputnik doesn't compare because it was communist grandstanding that created a communist agency within the West, NASA, that succeeded in suppressing progress in space for decades. This challenge from the Dravidian-Aryans hybrids of India is bound to light a fire under the moribund pioneering culture of the West -- particularly the nations of Canada, Australia and New Zealand and hopefully the US (assuming if the US can hold together in the face of such challenges to its pioneering heritage -- which I doubt and hope it cannot for the sake of the remnant of its pioneering subpopulations).

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