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Science

Gravitational Repulsion Effect Claimed 575

TekPolitik writes: "Eugene Podkletnov, the physicist who claimed to have discovered an anomalous gravitational "shielding" effect in the 90s, but withdrew his original paper prior to publication, has finally published a new paper on the topic. The paper describes a new experiment that is related to the original experiment, but the nature of the new experiment is more suggestive of an inverse gravitational effect (that is, the device creates a gravitational push away from it), or in Trekkie terms, a repulsor beam. Aside from claiming to have pushed things around at a distance, Podkletnov claims that the results directly contradict general relativity." Let's see if I can summarize: the author claims that with a certain very cold superconductor transmitting a large quantity of electricity in an intense magnetic field, he has observed a "new" force which repulses objects.
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Gravitational Repulsion Effect Claimed

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  • When we ran electricty into a conductor, and things get pushed away we called it:

    GRAVITY
  • Who cares? Gravity sucks.
  • Just a minor point here. The summary says that this directly contradicts relativity. Meanwhile the abstract of the actual article says "cannot be explained in the framework of general relativity." This might seem like a quibble, but it's a pretty important point. General Relativity, like Quantum theory is an incomplete description of the universe. They both work very well a describing the universe, but on differnt scales. The physics community is still searching for the unified field theory to unite the two, or rather supersede them. This observation could be the one that leads to the development of a more complete theory. Or, it could be something else.

  • I read a small article in Popular Science, though I cannot presently locate it, within the last year or so that stated a female researcher had developed a disc with a very similar function. I find it interesting that this man's research is portrayed as being the first in his field. Also, I have an article in my home directory that came from the PS website (found it while looking for the first article) that gives Thomas Townsend Brown credit for testing similar discs in the 50's!
  • by Self Bias Resistor ( 136938 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @03:57AM (#2121338)

    Why does Slashdot even give crackpots like this a voice? It's typical cold fusion, room temperature super conductors, perpetual motion engine bull shit. It's one guy claiming to have obtained a result that even he admits contradicts general relativity.

    That's exactly what they said when Newton proposed the theory of gravitational acceleration (the famous "feather and cannon ball fall at the same rate" experiment) and when Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity. Both of those ideas contradicted conventional thinking, but came to be accepted as some of the most valuable scientific contributions of all time. While you could be right in saying that this is the scientific equivalent of vapourware, it would be worth your while to observe this point. History has told us time and time again that more people spend more time thinking and talking about what they can't do than what they can do.

    Sure, sometimes these fantastic paradigm-shifting things happen. But when it's this far fetched, how about waiting for at least a little peer review?

    Because peer review often takes time to verify/disprove your research. By that time someone else may have discovered it and you want to make sure your hard work accounts for something. So you publish as soon as you have something concrete. Even if it gets retracted later on (Element 118 [slashdot.org], for example) the point is that you've still asked the questions anyway. You may even inspire further research into the field (for instance, the synthesis of transuranics continues to this day).

    And as a final note:

    Get into the conversation, log in. Most people don't read AC comments.

    Now that, I can agree with.

  • Yet more criticism (Score:2, Informative)

    by TopherC ( 412335 )
    Of course, this result looks a little fishy to me, too. First, like others I want to point out that this result is not "published", so the original post should be ammended. Anyone can put a paper up on xxx.lanl.gov. Second, the only reason I would guess this is not a complete hoax is that hoaxers don't usually go to this much effort. But I can't really tell.

    It's disturbing that the title of the paper mentions a gravitational force, and throughout the author refers to his radiation as a "gravity impulse". This is a premature, biasing assumption, and it makes the entire paper distasteful to read. A gravitational force would be the last thing I would imagine attributing to this effect, which is obviously electromagnetic in origin.

    I have no concerns that he somehow set up the experiment "incorrectly". If this is not a hoax, then whatever he did to create the radiation is fine, as long as it's described well enough for others to reproduce. However, his tests of the radiation are biased toward the idea that it's gravitational and not electromagnetic. He does not use antenae and plot the frequency spectrum, for example.

    There is no table showing the various materials used, at various distances, and the relative effects of the pulse on them. Because the pulses are not very uniform, many materials should be simultaneously tested. What is the confidence level of the hypothesis that various materials experience the same force, proportional to their mass? He only says that it's true, but doesn't show any data!! This is not even close to science. It's more like wishing real hard. If I were a reviewer of the article, I would ask for much more data to be presented.

    Section 4b of the paper is highly flawed. Really, what evidence does he present for the case that this is not garden-variety E-M radiation? He says the force is proportiaonal to mass and mostly independant of material (without showing the data which may be perfectly consistent with other hypotheses). Fine, but the atomic charges are going to be proportional to mass, also, so it could be a high-frequency kind of thing. He should test it on, say, different isotopes of the same element. Or lead vs beryllium, to get a decent range. He says that electromagnetic shielding doesn't attenuate the radiation. Okay, if you say so, but please, what kind of shielding did you try? Did you use a conductor, or mu-metal? How large? How much? To what accuracy did you test this? Magntic fields are extremely penetrating, and a Farraday cage doesn't help. I know, my office is one floor up and one room to the right of an 8 Tesla magnet, and I can't put any computer monitors in the Southern half of my room!

    Then in 4b he has some completely lunatic argument that his "new force" is not consistent with GR, because if he extrapolates the effect way beyond the range he has tested, he comes up with a violation of conservation of energy. "My tiny test balls received kinetic energy proportional to their masses, so logically, if I put a wrecking ball in the way it would absorb more energy than I put into the pulse! Ha!" He calls this a violation of the equivalence principle, which is absolutely wrong. It's a violation of conservation of energy, which is technically equivalent to saying that the laws of physics change from day to day (that time is not a valid symmetry).

    Then the rest of the paper goes into theories of quantum gravity and stranger stuff, which is most certainly not proven physics (not that I don't believe it, but come on!). I didn't read any of it, because I would rather read good science fiction than bad science fiction.

    Assuming this is not a hoax, I would be mildly interested in seeing a proper analysis of this high-energy E-M pulse. But there's enough genuine and important scientific research that is getting its funding slashed in the US (thanks, Bush!), so I hope experiments like this don't get more attention than they deserve.

    Topher Cawlfield

  • by Will Sargent ( 2751 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @02:41AM (#2126754) Homepage
    This is not the first time Podkletnov has done experiments on Anti-Gravity.

    There's the original paper [inetarena.com], written in 1992.

    There's the Wired article [wired.com] by Charles Platt which goes into detail exactly what happened after he published the first paper.

    And finally there's a web site on Gravity called Quantum Cavorite [inetarena.com]. It seems to be rational, although somewhat optimistic. The main lanl.gov site also has some great material on the two big approaches to G: spin foams & loops (general relativity guys) and noncommutative string geometry (particle physics guys).

    What I find really strange about this paper is that after being ignored for years, not having anyone being able to repeat his results reliably and refusing to help out NASA in verifying his methods, the guy is not only back for more, but he's proposing a theory which he says invalidates General Relativity. This looks as suicidal as <obSlash>a startup company proposing to wipe out Microsoft</obSlash>...

  • It's a good experiment, if real. There have been several previous reports of "gravity shielding", involving rotating superconductor disks. But the previous experiments were too close to the noise threshold. Typically the target disk was close to the rotating machinery and magnets, and the effects observed were small. Those effect could have been caused by air currents, induced fields in a conductive target, or even vibration from the machinery.

    But this new experimental design looks much better. The target is far from the generating machinery (tens of meters), and heavy shielding is between them. The effect observed is non-statistical and large.

    This is encouraging. It's not experimental error. Either this is a major result, or it's fake. Now others have to try to reproduce the effect.

  • I wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by joss ( 1346 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @03:04AM (#2131907) Homepage
    3 years ago observations on distant supernova showed that the expansion of the universe was accelerating, a discovery that was utterly unexpected and could only be explained by some previously unknown repulsive force. eg here [doe.gov]

    Surprisingly little fuss was made about this considering it meant that the most fundamental prediction physics has made about the nature of the universe is wrong. It seemed strange to me that they could be this wrong and yet still claim to know exactly what happened in the first few microseconds of the universe. Imagine walking along with someone in the wilderness, who says we are 5 hours, 3 minutes and 32 seconds from our destination. Later you find out that you're on a different continent to the one he said you were on. Yet still he insists he knows your time of arrival to the precise second. A modicum of doubt would seem appropriate.

    Anyway, I wonder if this could be the missing force ?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @01:49AM (#2138110)

    I wonder how many people actually tried to read the paper. I read it and I don't see anything that directly contradicts General Relativity. It mentions that PERHAPS the effect is related to Torsion theory or others that seem to violate certain principles of GR, but from what I gather these theories don't contradict GR. There is a difference. Quantum Theory often violates GR - or APPEARS to do so, given our incomplete understanding of the universe. And so what if GR is not quite perfect? There is room to learn.

    Also, there is no way that this is sending out bursts of electricity or magnetic force the way Taco describes. The experiment used apparatus to shield against electro-magnetism. If it is EM, then it is still very odd behaviour in that it can do something no other EM force previously observed can do.

    The reaction of most people on this list is that he has just made a EM field - come on ... obviously it's not. Read the paper and you will see that the radiation emitted is proportional to the mass of the target objects, and that it is not in any way slowed down nor does it alter it's course through material that 'normal' radiation is at least effected by. If his results are correct, this is not electromagnetism.

    I am not saying that this guy has discovered what he suspects: I don't know. But it's pretty damn interesting, and of course other people should try to duplicate the results.

  • Go read this story - besides being a damn good shortstory, it's pretty much explains why anti gravity is impossible.
  • by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @08:23AM (#2146802)
    In the description, towards the end:

    "It cannot be understood in the framework of general relativity."

    If this isn't bogus, it means that there's a great big hole in Einstein's view of gravity in particular and possibly the universe in general. The question is how big the hole is.

    When you're talking about faster-than-light travel in the realm of special relativity, you have three choices:

    1.) Causality - event A causes event B, such as "I push key on keyboard, then letter appears on screen.

    2.) FTL - moving faster than 3E8 m/s.

    3.) Relativity - No matter how fast you go, light is always measured to be going 3E8 m/s in relation to you. Space-time itself is altered to make this so.

    Of those three, you can only have two. If you move faster than light under relativity, you begin to move backwards in time. Even worse, causality goes out the window. Using the example of my keyboard again, all observers moving slower than the speed of light see that I press the key BEFORE it appears on the screen (but they disagree on how long before), so I essentially cause it to happen. Photons see everything as simultaneous (literally. A photon considers my typing to be simultaneous to the big bang). A person moving faster than light, though, will instead see that the letters appearing on my screen before I type, meaning that the words are causing me to press the keys. Under relativity, it looks this way because it IS that way, because all observations (in an inertial frame of reference, blah blah blah) are by definition right under relativity. This means nothing really causes anything, since it can be proved that both A caused B and B caused A. The universe runs entirely on coincidence if this is the case.

    This also leaves the door open for headache-inducing paradoxes (give two duelers tachyon pistols and they will both shoot each other before the other fires), but that's another long story.

    If we can find holes in relativity, though, it may be the one of those three options we throw out. This will let us get to the next star system in a reasonable amount of time while still being able to prove that we invented warp drive, not the other way around. :)

  • Is this guy a crackpot? Judge for yourself. From http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

    A -5 point starting credit.

    1 point for every statement that is widely agreed on to be false.

    2 points for every statement that is clearly vacuous.

    3 points for every statement that is logically inconsistent.

    5 points for each such statement that is adhered to despite careful correction.

    5 points for using a thought experiment that contradicts the results of a widely accepted real experiment.

    5 points for each word in all capital letters (except for those with defective keyboards).

    5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".

    10 points for each claim that quantum mechanics is fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

    10 points for pointing out that you have gone to school, as if this were evidence of sanity.

    10 points for beginning the description of your theory by saying how long you have been working on it.

    10 points for mailing your theory to someone you don't know personally and asking them not to tell anyone else about it, for fear that your ideas will be stolen.

    10 points for offering prize money to anyone who proves and/or finds any flaws in your theory.

    10 points for each statement along the lines of "I'm not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations".

    10 points for arguing that a current well-established theory is "only a theory", as if this were somehow a point against it.

    10 points for arguing that while a current well-established theory predicts phenomena correctly, it doesn't explain "why" they occur, or fails to provide a "mechanism".

    10 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Einstein, or claim that special or general relativity are fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

    10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a "paradigm shift".

    20 points for suggesting that you deserve a Nobel prize.

    20 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Newton or claim that classical mechanics is fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

    20 points for every use of science fiction works or myths as if they were fact.

    20 points for defending yourself by bringing up (real or imagined) ridicule accorded to your past theories.

    20 points for each use of the phrase "hidebound reactionary".

    20 points for each use of the phrase "self-appointed defender of the orthodoxy".

    30 points for suggesting that a famous figure secretly disbelieved in a theory which he or she publicly supported. (E.g., that Feynman was a closet opponent of special relativity, as deduced by reading between the lines in his freshman physics textbooks.)

    30 points for suggesting that Einstein, in his later years, was groping his way towards the ideas you now advocate.

    30 points for claiming that your theories were developed by an extraterrestrial civilization (without good evidence).

    40 points for comparing those who argue against your ideas to Nazis, stormtroopers, or brownshirts.

    40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.

    40 points for comparing yourself to Galileo, suggesting that a modern-day Inquisition is hard at work on your case, and so on.

    40 points for claiming that when your theory is finally appreciated, present-day science will be seen for the sham it truly is. (30 more points for fantasizing about show trials in which scientists who mocked your theories will be forced to recant.)

    50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions.

  • by Fixer ( 35500 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @08:00AM (#2148248) Homepage Journal
    I have to get to work soon, but I think I must say this.

    Whether this guy is right or wrong, the vast majority of us won't be involved in that determination. Mostly, we're not scientists. And so we debate back and forth on the merits of this paper, but without reaching any conclusions.

    If you feel SO strongly about this paper, for or against, then get yourself into a lab.
    Because you aren't helping us and you aren't helping yourself with empty claims of insanity or genius on the part of this researcher.

    Try to keep in mind a few points: First, that in nearly every case of claims of fundamental breakthroughs, it does not pan out.
    Second, try to wrap your mind around the fact that our knowledge of the universe is woefully incomplete, will probably always be so, and that any totally new discovery MAY seem impossible in light of current understanding.. because current understanding is wrong.

    There is no armchair way to determine the truth or falsehood of this guys claims, you HAVE to test.

    I almost am of the opinion that anyone claiming a sufficiently strange new theory should build a device which demonstrates this new knowledge as an obvious effect. In other words, if you claim to have discovered a storage effect for "life-force" (whatever that is), then you had better go on and build a battery. Because no one will believe you. And usually, they'll be right. But not always.

    • Going into a lab won't help. I believe I have seen the effect this -NUT- is talking about. It is possible to induce a magnetic field into an aluminum ring which causes the ring to jump away from the electromagnet.

      I've seen it. It is very cool, but it isn't new.

      And it has NOTHING to do with gravity.

  • If you are familiar with quantam mechanics (and I suggest you all read up on it... fascinating subject), you would know that there are (currently) 6 quarks, 6 leptons, and a number of "force carrying" particles. I forgot how many of those. As of now, we have most of these identified and independantly observed (please don't argue about semantics on independant quarks). One particle, however, stands out: the graviton. Although predicted, it has never been observed. Now hold that thought... Particle physics theorists tend to come up with some pretty wild ideas about how all of that mumbo-jumbo is related. One such theory is GUTs: the Grand Unification Theories. It states that to every particle, there is a "cousin" particle. A few examples= top quark : photon :: top squark : photino. Could this experiment have found the gravitino before having found the graviton?
    And what about anti-particles... We can produce anti-quarks. Not many of them, but we know they exist. Merging that idea with gravitons / anti-gravitons is a bit trickier. It would take a bit of hand-waving to predict anti-force carriers. NOTE: an anti-particle is not the same as the "cousin" particle described above. Just a thought. Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
  • This anti-gravity substance was used to propel space
    travel in H.G. Wells "First Men in the Moon" (1919),
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @06:09AM (#2148513) Homepage
    I am not aware of all the uses for superconductors, but I am aware of one specific one... I cannot give out specifics but I can certainly explain the principles behind it.

    One writer discusses that power through conductors creates magnetic fields. That's true. We all knew that. High amounts of power through conductors creates large magnetic fields. That only stands to reason. High amounts of power also creates high amounts of heat in the conductor causing the conductor to burn out like a filament in a lightbulb. Enter superconductors.

    Now we can create (very) large magnetic fields that can be sustained. But why? Well, look at your hard drive. See that voice coil? See how quickly and accurately it moves? Imagine a vehicle fitted with a superconducting "voice coil system" that can literally surf on the Earth's magnetic field. This technology has existed secretly for quite some time.

    I've always been kind of excited by the technology. It's very cool when you think about it. Now imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!
  • by Ictinus ( 31155 )
    Thought you might be interested... there was an article in a recent New Scientist titled 'Utterly Repulsive'
    "THREE years ago we discovered that the Universe is expanding at a faster and faster rate. Now physicists say this might mean the Universe is littered with invisible "anti black holes" that repel any matter that comes close."
    by Hazel Muir
    From New Scientist magazine, vol 171 issue 2298, 07/07/2001, page 7

    See also the paper, "Interplay Between Gravity and Quintessence: A Set of New GR Solutions"
    Authors: Arthur D. Chernin, David I. Santiago, Alexander S. Silbergleit
    http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0106144
    I've not read this link, but you might like to.
  • OMG! (Score:3, Funny)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @12:35AM (#2148788) Homepage
    Does Alex Chiu know about this yet?! :^)
  • by muerte24 ( 178621 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @11:44PM (#2150253)
    There are two possibilities:

    (a) He has fudged his data or left out some important part of his apparatus.

    (b) He has discovered something important.

    Not having been published in a peer reviewed journal, and having no physical collaboration from independent observers (his co-author never actually participated in the experiment), I would have to lean toward choice (a).

    His experimental apparatus is also very home grown. What does he mean that he couldn't "get a good enough vacuum to prevent condensation on the superconductor" ??? His home brew method to manufacture his SC coating looks EZ Bake style to me also.

    However, if his experiment and results are God's honest truth, there are some interesting implications.

    He says that he measured the force on pendulums of ceramic, wood, rubber, etc hanging from cotton strings seperated from his spark discharge machine by distances of SIX and ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY meters, including walls and steel plates. One must not that he does not publish the results for the 150m experiment. His primary results are from a rubber sphere, and he doesn't explicitly publish any other data. However, he claims to have imparted about 2 milliJoules of energy into the ball about 20 feet away. That's a 1/2 ounce ball on a 30 inch string given enough kick to swing 6 inches. If this is correct, it really is truly amazing.

    His writing style and lack of clarity also lead me to believe that his results do not speak for themselves.

    Once we get some replication of his setup, then we can see for ourselves. Nobel Prize - or Cold Fusion.

    /Muerte

    • The paper hints that the results at 150m were about identical to those at 6m. It seems the 'wave' travels freely through matter, and then only effects the ball at the far end of the setup...i assume this discriminatory behaviour is because the ball is moveable. so all the fixed obstructions eg. wall etc, simply don't take any energy from the wave. the wave can't have infinite energy, it seems reasonable to assume. but then what about the 150m of freely-moveable air molecules in between? surely a lot of air gets moved (depending on the width of the beam) and should influence the results at 150m. there's a general lack of experimental thoroughness in the results.
    • He says that he measured the force on pendulums of ceramic, wood, rubber, etc hanging from cotton strings seperated from his spark discharge machine by distances of SIX and ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY meters, including walls and steel plates

      It was probably windy that day

    • Quote:
      One must not that he does not publish the results for the 150m experiment

      Actually the paper does. It says on page 9 of the PDF file:

      Measurements of the impulse taken at close distance (3-6 m) from the installation and at the distance of 150 m gave indentical results, within the experimental errors.

      From Table 1 on page 8 of the paper he gives experimental error as:

      Table 1: Emitter N. 1. Influence of high voltage discharges on the deflection of the pendulum. Experimental data are the average of 12 measurements. The standard deviation of the single data is between 5 and 7%

    • What get's me it that a massive electrical field will effect objects within it's close proximity. You get basically a corona field around it that will repulse non-conductive objects. (Granted not heavy ones) I have seen 72000 Volt electrical switches have dust patters that show where the "field" was around uninsulated connections or breaks in insulation. And anyone that has worked inside a television knows that you can locate a crack on a flyback transformer's high voltage side by looking for the dust... (On really old sets that had the problem for a while)
    • by Compuser ( 14899 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @03:37AM (#2168573)
      Well, it's more complicated than this. First of all the paper devotes most of its space to theoretical discussion which in the end shows no quantitative predictions. Being an experimentalist I do not care much for this kind of theory. YMMV.
      Chucking theory, we are left with two experimental results: a rather plausible effect and an implausible one. The plausible result is his description of how the discharge evolves through T_c. Still, he gives no explanation of what T_c was and more importantly he never mentions transition width. His mention that in his first experiments the YBCO film degraded makes me think that his temprature control was highly questionable so he may have been still above T_c even with claims to the contrary. Still, he may be right when he says that his setup represents a new or at least unusual N-S junction.
      The implausible result is his claims of a force beam and that his beam does not dissipate through walls, air and other things. He claims that his discharge has a side effect of producing a beam capable of significant mechanical effects. The sheer difference in scale between known gravitational effects and his measurements makes me wonder if the beam exists at all. The lack of dissipation combined with its strong effect on the balls leaves me wondering if conservation laws would be violated.
      The paper is horridly written. Parts aren't proper English (which I am ready to excuse as he is not from an English speaking country), parts aren't proper physics (like when he claims that the electrons forming his discharge are coming from pair condensate without any justification to substantiate such an implausible scenario), parts aren't proper experimental procedure (e.g his vacuum quality, his lack of pictures to illustrate discharge dynamics, etc). His figures don't have captions and some have unlabeled axes. His theoretical discussion includes passages trying to say, in effect: people don't know where this comes from in high T_c so it may be related to our effect. Still, I would not judge a book by its cover. If only one of the effects he observed is real then he has made a contribution to science, though after reading his paper, I doubt there will be revolutionary advances coming from this.
  • paramagnetic? (Score:3, Informative)

    by aozilla ( 133143 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @11:40PM (#2150376) Homepage
    How does this differ from those paramagnetic fields, which can levitate frogs? [sci.kun.nl]
    • by CTboy ( 469210 )
      Your link says they were levitating things inside a soleniod with a magnetic field of 16 Tesla. In his abstract he says that the device used only a 1 Tesla field and the object being affected wasn't even within that 1T field at all, only the device was. The differences are enough for me (a non-physicist) to believe that the two phenomena are not the same.
    • Re:paramagnetic? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mattr ( 78516 ) <{mattr} {at} {telebody.com}> on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @01:34AM (#2150838) Homepage Journal
      That is an important question.

      It was found that the force of the impact on pendulums made of different materials does not depend on the material but is only proportional to the mass of the sample. Pendulums of different mass demonstrated equal deflection at constant voltage. This was proved by a large number of measurements using spherical samples of different mass and diameter.

      This seems to suggest either 1) antigravity etc or 2) paramagnetism. It would seem to rule out contamination with iron as someone else suggested. It would also be nice to know from some of the physicists around here whether or not there is a lot of experience with magnetic fields of this strength at this temperature.

      Considering how deadly this kind of research must be to your career, you have to admire this scientist. It would seem obvious that if we began to understand it we would be able to control it in some way, that it would seem like a logical course of scientific inquiry.

      • The question of the behavior of different materials in this experiment seems of paramount importance. It seems odd that the paper has so little actual data--no precise description of the materials used, no separate measurements for different materials, no error bars, no statistical analysis.
      • This seems to suggest either 1) antigravity etc or 2) paramagnetism

        Or 3) electromagnetic induction.

        Normally 3) would require some conductivity. But if the magnetic field change was strong enough and/or of short enough duration it could generate free charge carriers within something normally an insulator or produce adequate eddy current to cause a detectable motion by moving bound charges without ionizing their atoms.
  • by Monkeyman334 ( 205694 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @01:08AM (#2152747)
    Hooked up to my computer is a device which shoots ions onto a curved piece of glass. When I stop passing electrons to this device, and place a piece paper on it, the paper is pulled to it. Like gravity. My new energy source. I have documented my ion device in more detail here [cnet.com].
  • by UserChrisCanter4 ( 464072 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:28PM (#2168641)
    Newsflash!

    The Gravity Advocates Association (GAA) has announced plans to file suit against the "repulsor beam", claiming it "circumvents established gravitational force technology"

    In other news, Podkletnov has been arrested by the FBI and is being held without bail on charges of "violating basic scientific laws"

  • by Cap'n Crax ( 313292 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:32PM (#2168651) Homepage

    "Gravitational Field." Hmph! This whole story is repulsive!
    • So what does the government use to PAY the company that PRINTS the money?

      The workers and contractors of the mints are paid with _actual_ money. What they produce is just fancy paper until it is sprinkled with the Royal Penguin Piss.
  • theory (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cephas Keken ( 224723 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:32PM (#2168656) Homepage Journal
    This violates everything we know...
    at least at first look,
    people have been talking about this
    kind of thing for ever.

    Basicly it leads to the idea that
    gravity travels instantly
    which violates relitivity
    which in turn, up ends everything
    all the way to string (super string) theory...

    wasn't there some CEO who vanished after he started doing reasearch with some guy about this stuff?
    • Re:theory (Score:3, Interesting)

      by anshil ( 302405 )
      Is there a proof that gravitity does NOT travel instantly? If yuo can proof this you've a proof for gravity waves, right? Another mystery yet

      That gravitiy does travel instantly is not a proof on violation of the relitiy theory. You must proof that gravitiy CHANGES can travel instantly, and that one can transfer information through this. Something not in contrast to the idea gravity expands instantly, so how about to say a remote view can only see changes in gravity after enough time has passed that lightspeed time/space factor passed toward him. You can't destroy or create masses, right? So you can't create or destroy gravity force. You can only pull apart an object into two, so the attraction force toward that object is seperated into two, so the once unified force is split into two, but does the remote viewer "feel" this "instantly" or not? Does the gravitiy information that these objects splitted travel with lightspeed or faster than light? Does there travel any information at all? Maybe the sum of attrcation stays the same, so theres no information send over. However my calculations do show a change in force.
      Can I use two objects by frequently joining them together and ripping them a part to generate gravitiy waves? How fast would they travel then? Would gravitiy waves obey to the same laws as the electro/magnetic do? (light)

      I wish I had a huge labratory where I can manipulate with millions of tons of mass :o)
    • Basicly it leads to the idea that gravity travels instantly which violates relitivity

      Experimental evidence shows that gravity travels at not less than 2x10^10 times the speed of light. See The Speed of Gravity - what Experiments Say [ldolphin.org].

      Here's the abstract:

      Abstract

      Standard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation speed of forces. When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than lightspeed. This is because gravity, in contrast to light, has no detectable aberration or propagation delay for its action, even for cases (such as binary pulsars) where sources of gravity accelerate significantly during the light time from source to target By contrast, the finite propagation speed of light causes radiation pressure forces to have a non-radial component causing orbits to decay (the "Poynting-Robertson effect"); but gravity has no counterpart force proportional to v/c to first order. General relativity (GR) explains these features by suggesting that gravitation (unlike electromagnetic forces) is a pure geometric effect of curved space-time, not a force of nature that propagates. Gravitational radiation, which surely does propagate at lightspeed but is a fifth order effect in v/c, is too small to play a role in explaining this difference in behavior between gravity and ordinary forces of nature. Problems with the causality principle also exist for GR in this connection, such as explaining how the external fields between binary black holes manage to continually update without benefit of communication with the masses hidden behind event horizons. These causality problems would be solved without any change to the mathematical formalism of GR, but only to its interpretation, if gravity is once again taken to be a propagating force of nature in flat spacetime with the propagation speed indicated by observational evidence and experiments: not less than 2 x 10^10 c. Such a change of perspective requires no change in the assumed character of gravitational radiation or its lightspeed propagation. Although faster-than-light force propagation speeds do violate Einstein special relativity (SR), they are in accord with Lorentzian relativity, which has never been experimentally distinguished from SR-at least, not if favor of SR. Indeed, far from upsetting much of current physics, the main changes induced by this new perspective are beneficial to areas where physics has been struggling, such as explaining experimental evidence for non-locality in quantum physics, the dark matter issue in cosmology, and the possible unification of forces. Recognition of a faster-than-lightspeed propagation of gravity, as indicated by all existing experimental evidence, may be the key to taking conventional physics to the next plateau.

      • While I can't claim to have read all of Mr. (Dr?) van Flandern's article, I did find his claims to sound intelligent and be intriguing. Having passed the first level of my crap detector (he didn't spend a lot of time complaining about persecution; he didn't use a a lot of caps; etc)., I decided to see if I could find anyone rebutting him.

        This page [ucr.edu] contains a lot of links generally rebutting a lot of "fringe" claims on physics topics. He has A Whole Section [ucr.edu] devoted to Mr. van Flander's paper, in which he links to rebuttals by gravitational physicists of Mr. van Flander's ideas. The short answer from them seems to be "Tom van Flanders doesn't understand relativity very well."

    • Re:theory (Score:5, Funny)

      by cygnus ( 17101 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @11:25PM (#2168867) Homepage
      wasn't there some CEO who vanished after he started doing reasearch with some guy about this stuff?

      yes, shortly after beginning the research, he inexplicably was shot off into outer space.

  • by phoenix_orb ( 469019 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:37PM (#2168676)
    If I read that paper correctly, (and I may not have, simply because I only have 3 years of physics experience in a lab enviornment) the device that he has designed can manipulate magnetic fields to a point where it can force objects away. Similar to a magnet, although much more controlable, and able to be used on what would normally be considered "non-magnetic" The downside is that this is in an experimental stage at this point. Imagine haveing long distance satallites using this..(the vacumn of space has an ambient tempurature of around 3k.. just low enough for use of superconducting items in the liquid helium range.)

    Many micrometeors have sizes smaller than a fraction of an inch, and we cannot accurately scan for them (it has been described almost as a life sized comparison to Heisenburg's Uncertainty Princible.) This would honestly help out small satellites, because a small micrometeors can disable or destroy those satallites with a single pass. With NASA now focusing on a "smaller, faster, cheaper" mantra, this may not be worked on as a viable option for quite some time. (I live in the states, and NASA is a seen as the world leader in Space... please don't flame me ESA members...)

    An workable model formed on this approach could see itself attached later to the space station or even the shuttle (The shuttle has sensors, (and so does mission control) that scans constantly for items that could hit the shuttle and destroy it. Think the opening sequence to Armegeddon, (well, maybe not that bad... :) But it would be nice to simply turn those small objects away.

    This will be interesting to see how these finding develop.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:45PM (#2168723)
    Well my eyes glazed over around the point when I got to "Based on Charged YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-y} Superconductor with Composite Crystal Structure" of the actual text, but based on Taco's description, I feel qualified to venture a joke:
    Let's see if I can summarize: the author claims that with a certain very cold superconductor [As opposed to the room-temperature kind--AC] transmitting a large quantity of electricity in an intense magnetic field, he has observed a "new" force which repulses objects.
    I believe that largely the same phenomenon has been known to the world for ages:

    It's called a subwoofer.

    Big woop, so now it's superconducting.
    </bad joke>


    Yes, every editor is Taco. Especially that fascist Michael.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:51PM (#2168745)
    Many years ago I realized that women were repulsed by me.
    The effect is inversely proportional to distance.
    It also seems to be inversely proportional to the mass of the woman.
  • by rcw-home ( 122017 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:57PM (#2168766)
    All you have to do is strap buttered bread to the back of a cat.
  • not news (Score:4, Funny)

    by taxman_10m ( 41083 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @10:58PM (#2168768)
    For as long as I can remember, I have been able to repulse objects. When I step up to a woman, *bammo*, she starts moving in the opposite direction. At first I thought this was an explainable force having something to do with "my face" or "my bony frame." But recent tests seem to indicate that the force is of unknown origin, a force, that perhaps, runs contrary to all known laws of physics. Too bad I was unable to publish my paper before this bozo. Mine would have been a lot more entertaining.

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