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Losing Track of Nuclear Materials 160

pdavew writes: "An editorial in the Washington Post by Bruce Blair, president of the Center for Defense Information says that Russian Experts at the Kurchatov Institute have warned the US that software lent to them by the Los Alamos National Labs has a bug that over time loses track of bomb-grade nuclear materials even though their location is still in the database, and that this feature can be used to divert the materials for profit unbeknownst to the nuclear accountants. Apparently, this has been going on for about 10 years." The editorial says "Microsoft software," but it almost certainly isn't. See below for more.

As it so happens, I know a bit about accounting for nuclear materials at DOE facilities, since I've written a system to do just that (not the one in question, fortunately for me). There's a good basic description of the flawed inventory system available from a Russian site. It's a custom application built on Windows NT and SQL Server, and the application itself was almost certainly not written by Microsoft but by some consulting firm hired by the Department of Energy. (I don't know that it wasn't Microsoft who did the consulting, but it would surprise me.)

So rather than being a "risks of Microsoft software" story, this is a story in general about the risks of highly complex, closed-source code.

About ten minutes after Little Boy turned Hiroshima into an ex-city, the U.S. realized the importance of tracking the raw materials for nuclear weaponry. Enriched uranium and plutonium, primarily, but also many other materials that are fissionable or can be used in nuclear weapons. (Incidentally, you can possess uranium ore in its natural state without a Nuclear Regulatory Commission license - only if you try to enrich it do you run into problems. :)

Accounting of U.S. nuclear materials is handled through a system/organization called NMMSS, the Nuclear Materials Management and Safeguards System. This database was started in the Days of Yore, when men were men and computers were room-sized with lots of blinkenlights. This database was originally designed to accept 80-column punch-cards - lots and lots of punch-cards. Each punch-card could be part of an inventory received from some U.S. facility that handled nuclear materials, or part of a transaction indicating the transfer of nuclear materials from one facility to another, or any other data that needed to be entered into the database.

At the end of the day, the system would grind over the data entered, looking for problems. For instance, facility X says they sent 10 kilos of plutonium to facility Y, and facility Y says they received 9 kilos of plutonium from facility X - red flags go up, alarms ring, troops are dispatched.

The system has been modernized once or twice, and modified many, many times to take account of changing developments in nuclear science ("hey, this isotope can be used in making super-bombs - better track it too!"), changing regulations, and changing technology. But no one wants to screw it up, so modifications are always the minimum needed. So today, DOE facilities don't send punch-cards anymore - they can send their information via encrypted email or secure dial-up connections. But the data transmitted is still in 80-column formats, a legacy of the punch-cards. Each facility runs some sort of inventory system which tracks things at their facility, and submits various reports up the chain to NMMSS. It's all computerized - but there are massive legacies of the predecessor systems.

After the end of the Cold War and Soviet break-up, the U.S. DOE starting sweating about poor Russian control of nuclear materials. The U.S. has sent significant assistance to the former Soviet Union to aid them in accounting for and tracking materials that could be used in building nuclear weapons. The U.S. has also purchased a large amount of "excess" nuclear material from the former U.S.S.R., and the U.S. and Soviet inventory systems are at least partially merged now - at least some Soviet facilities submit inventory reports to NMMSS now, and so transactions of materials between U.S. and Russian facilities can be handled much the same way as transactions between two U.S. facilities. Naturally the U.S. donated their custom facility inventory software, which was probably developed at extraordinary expense, running on NT and SQL Server.... and now we're back to the original article.

At this point you know as much as I do. I don't know what flaw caused the loss in inventories that was described in the article, whether it was a flaw in SQL Server or the custom application written on top of it. I do know that any significant inventory loss would almost certainly be detected elsewhere in the chain -- NMMSS would note that the inventory was X kilograms one month, (X-Y) kilograms the next month, and wonder what happened, even if no one at the actual facility did. So my suggestion is to take the $1 billion estimate in the article with a grain of salt. Probably the flaw isn't that bad, probably it occurred in a repeatable manner and the data can be found or reconstructed (there are many checks and safeguards built-in to all of these systems to detect errors or attempted fraud). The most probable "attack" against the inventory system was a bad employee, attempting to divert nuclear material for financial gain. But the safeguards should suffice to detect systemic errors as well.

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Losing Track of Nuclear Materials

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Stuff does get stuck in the pipes now and then. I'll bet K25 at Oak Ridge has tons of uranium lost in the plumbing. How do you really know if material has been hijacked or should be written off as lost as a result of the inefficiencies of the production process? Can you really inventory this stuff or are there a lot of statistical assumptions built in to the software that could be exploited by a knowlegeable insider?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    >The technology required to make the actual bomb, though, is pretty difficult to figure out.

    Not really. Once you have the enriched uranium (for an ordinary fission device), all you really have to do is to merge it beyond critical mass in a short amount of time.

    For instance, take two pieces of enriched uranium with a total mass over the critical limit, but each one below the limit. Then place them at separate ends in a steel cylinder 1 m apart. Attach some chemical explosive on both ends of the cylinder and weld the cylinder shut. Now, when you detonate the explosives (simultanously), the uranium pieces will crash into each other and instantly form a critical mass - Kaboooom...

    Not exactly rocket science ;-)

  • by Anonymous Coward
    This is really being blown out of proportion quite a bit. People need to understand that this is the government/military we are talking about. That means that there is a paper trail a mile long that goes along with this system. Just because this system may have lost track of something does not mean its unacountable. I have an uncle who actually audits nuclear weapons and is called in to investigate when they are 'misplaced'. Surprisingly this happens more regularly than you would think. In every case its a matter of human error where data has either been entered in wrong or material has been placed somewhere other than where it should have been. How are these discrepencies found? You go back and look at all the paper work.

    Paper still runs the government/military. Everythign is checked and rechecked and entered into systems that probably don't talk to each other in any way. This story is being blown way out of proportion.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Almost all the code for this kind of thing is, "Open Source". Anyone who needs it will get it as a source code distribution. They don't make binary distributions because of all the different hardware this is run on. See Oak Ridge's order page [ornl.gov] as an example. NT junk, yeah, there are some packages that have been distributed as Win executables, but they are troublesome to maintain and are generally on the same disk as the source itself. I know of one package that was broken by changes from 95 to 98 for example.

    They may not be Free, and they might even cost you money, but no scientist would ever trust a closed source binary for important work.

    -NuclearArchaologist posting as anonymous with broken cookies and without his password :(

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:45AM (#91803)
    This is the first reference I could find on Google. If you search, you will find others. These are the largest, documented, publicized nuclear fuel thefts.

    http://www.arabmedia.com/jnucler.html

    [snip]
    The most notorious instance, fully uncovered by the American intelligence in 1967, involved the Israeli theft of several hundred pounds of enriched uranium from the U.S. Nuclear Material and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC) facility in Apollo, Pennsylvania with the alleged help of its American director, Zalman Shapiro.4 While the evidence was not sufficient to convict the principal involved, there was a "clear consensus" within the CIA that the nuclear materials in question had been diverted to Israel and used by the Israelis for nuclear weapons manufacture.5 Indeed, Shapiro was known to have maintained extraordinarily intimate relations with the Israeli government and its nuclear scientific community during his tenure at NUMEC. Other known instances of Israeli theft of nuclear materials include hit-and-run tear-gas attacks by the Israelis against uranium-laden trucks belonging to the government of France, their former nuclear benefactor.

    British nuclear cargo was similarly hijacked by individuals suspected of working for Israeli intelligence. A fourth instance involves the temporary seizure of a ship registered to what was then West Germany, from which 200 tons of yellowcake (uranium used as nuclear fuel) subsequently disappeared, an instance the U.S. intelligence has also attributed to Israel.
    [snip]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:17AM (#91804)
    bug in TrackNuclearShit.DLL since Win 3.11

    it was actually trackn~1.dll

  • Microsoft set us up the bomb.

    --

  • by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:43AM (#91806) Homepage Journal
    The problem is not that the code didn't get peer review (how many people would actually search through this looking for bugs and report ones they found? Would anyone else actually want to use this?), but that it didn't get redesigned for clarity. Something like this should be reworked to the point where everything is obviously correct.
  • That's "the true north strong and free" to you, eh. Learn the frickin national anthem before you bother with the map. (j/k:)
    #define X(x,y) x##y
  • From the comments by the submitter:

    Apparently, this has been going on for about 10 years.

    From the actual story:

    By [the Russians'] calculations, an enormous amount of Russia's nuclear material... would disappear from their accounting records if Russia were to use the flawed U.S. software program for 10 years.

    Please, please, please read what you're writing about before you write about it!

  • The report states quite clearly that the bug was in SQL Server 6.5. Of course, it's near impossible to build large scale software without bugs, but at least open source software could in theory be debugged by the end user.
  • I'll reprogram it, I'm a Techie Prima Donna. [slashdot.org] Just give me a night and lots of cola and I'll have that thing TWEAKED OUT! (Running in Linux and programmed in Perl and MySQL of course.)

    And when I'm finished, I'll frag your brains out from that same machine!
  • It depends on the isotope. Po-209, for example, has a half-life of 105 years.

    Right, but they use the hot isotope for a reason. If you use a slower-decaying isotope, you reduce the probability that the initiator will produce a neutron at the critical instant when it is needed.
    You want the polonium to be spewing out alpha particles constantly, to maximize the probability that the system will produce that one critical neutron exactly when it is needed.
  • by jms ( 11418 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:25AM (#91812)
    Pu 239 has a half-life of approximately 24,000 years, so for all practical purposes it is stable and doesn't need to be rotated.

    However, inside each weapon is a small device called the initiator. The initiator is made of beryllium and polonium-210, and is inserted in the center of the plutonium sphere.

    When the bomb is detonated, the plutonium sphere implodes, crushing together and mixing the beryllium and polonium. The polonium gives off alpha radiation, and beryllium emits neutrons when hit by alpha radiation. One reference says that the number of neutrons given off by the initiator is around five or six. All it takes is one neutron to start the fission chain reaction.

    The initiator only has a few microseconds to emit the necessary neutrons. It's considered to be one of the most critical and difficult aspects of nuclear weapon design. A great deal of information has been published about nuclear weapon design, but information about initator design is never published.

    Polonium has a half-life of only 138 days. So, even though the plutonium itself decays very slowly, it is the initators that must be regularly replaced.

  • by nebby ( 11637 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:27AM (#91813) Homepage
    Somebody is going to set up... eh fuck it.
  • Breeder reactors produce plutonium, not uranium. Extracting the plutonium from the fuel rods, and converting it into usable weapons components, is a difficult and dangerous business. Look at the robotic factories the USA built during the Manhattan Project to process plutonium.

    A plutonium bomb (implosion device) is a complex design. There are a lot of things that can go wrong.

    A U-235 bomb (gun device) is considerably simpler, but inefficient in its use of fissionable material.

    Someone who got their hands on a sizable quantity of highly enriched uranium could easily build a nuclear weapon.

  • From what I have read, plutonium wasn't suitable for gun assembly due to the high background radiation (neutrons) of the material. There was a high probability of a fizzle (premature chain reaction resulting in low yield) due to the relatively slow assembly time of the gun.

    You are correct that an implosion device can use uranium or plutonium.

    I'll have to check out Project Urchin.

  • Most likely the problem lies in how MSSQL os called. over 95% of database errors I come across are due to the database being called incorrectly or just purely crap code. (And having visual basic used for the frontends doesn't help either.) The problem lies when a client flakes out during a database process because the programmers are morons. instead of issuing a simple change Column A to "text" where look1=look2 and letting the server do all the hard work you get these visual basic programmers that havent a clue about SQL having a damned loop changing things one item at a time. causing a huge load on the SQL server and making everything horribly unstable. (Gee, we are issuing database locks like mad over and over increasing our chances to have collisions.)

    WE use a product called Novar for our traffic and billing here, and it's the worst written software on the planet. (Their 1.0 product was better than the 2.0) and every problem we have with the database can be linked back to the application and it's shoddy programming. (by my detective work, they wont admit it.)

    I hate to support MS but in this case I highly doubt that MSSQL is causing any problems like this.
  • by ethereal ( 13958 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:50AM (#91817) Journal

    I don't think that opening the code is automatically a bad thing, but in this case I don't think it would help too much. Open source code improves when people look at it, and people look at it when they use it and have problems with it. This was a custom system written for exactly one customer, and you can bet the DOE could have (and maybe did) get the source code if they wanted to. Making this system open source wouldn't have helped much since there really wouldn't be enough eyes looking at it to make the bugs shallow. In the worst case, the only people looking for flaws would be the people with something to gain from the flaws - black hats. You really only want something to be open source if you can be sure that there will be enough white hats contributing to balance out that risk, or if it's a program that has very minimal security implications, like gEdit or something like that.

    That's assuming that the problem really was in the custom app and not in NT or MSSQL, but I assume any bugs where MSSQL quietly "disappears" certain information would be common knowledge by now...

  • Also, most nuclear materials can be tracked to their point of manufacture even after they've been assembled into a bomb and detonated. You find the core, you can analyze the left overs and know which plant, US or Russian or god knows who, manufactured the stuff. So if somebody stole material that was recovered, it would be a one time deal.

    Ah, the ActiveX method. Did that web page just nuke your hard disk? No problem, the code was signed. Your data is gone, but at least you know who to blame.


    ---
  • by jawad ( 15611 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:19AM (#91819)
    I'd like to apologize for the missing nuclear materials. See, the uranium & whatnot was piping hot, and you know how similar hot uranium and hot grits look.. So I accidentally poured hot uranium down my pants.

    Thank you.
  • EnGl1$h N4Z1z StR1K3!!!

    Error: "There are who sorts of code."
    Correction: "There are two sorts of code."

    "Don't worry, it could happen to anyone. Have a nice day." --The GEICO Gecko
  • ...and let me tell you, the guy's right on the mark. Microsoft was NOT the contractor for the app.

    All of the DOE's software (at least, anything used by anybody with a normal security clearance) is written by a 3rd party -- which usually themselves subcontract. In fact, there are firms in the DC area with mulit-million dollar revenues that do nothing but "bottom feed" on DOE contracts -- that is, do less than 49% of the paid work (or whatever the margin is for that project).

    Further, most of these are ENVIRONMENTAL companies, not IT shops, since they wouldn't know enough about, say, ground water remediation to make a front end database app anyway.

    So am I surprised? Not really. Especially since we're dealing with a government agency. :-)

  • It's pronounced "Guh-nuke-ular".

    F.O.Dobbs
  • I was in college in the mid-1980's. College itself was an interesting experience. Coming straight from conservative, agricultural, clean country into liberal, urban, polluted university was a shock.

    I remember when the US "invaded" Grenada. What a weird day (and day after) that was. Quite a view university folks were in fear of a nuclear exchange of some kind.

    Oh, and my graduation was marred by a two hour commencement address by Herb Marcuse who told us how we had nothing to look forward too. There were no jobs because of Reagan. We would catch aids because of Reagan. We would have to wear gas masks because of Reagan's pollution. We would be arrested by Reagan's brownshirt thugs. Nuclear conflagration was inevitable. Gaagh!
  • > The editorial says "Microsoft software," but it almost certainly isn't.

    What they meant was, it's Microsoft software in spirit, if not in the flesh.

    --
  • for the curious, what is that secret city called? do you have any other references to learn more about it?

    i am fascinated.
  • by Masker ( 25119 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:22AM (#91826)
    it's a feature. This way, the US can actively reduce both nuclear stockpiles without the hassle of a treaty. =)
  • SQL Server does (and did) support RI. The problem is it doesn't support cascade updates/deletes without triggers. (I think even to this day.) The RI (foreign key) rules kick in before the triggers. So if you want to have cascade updates/deletes you need to not use foreign keys.

    Now if you mess up the triggers that control cascade updates/deletes and RI, then you get into the orphaned records situations.
  • by Matt2000 ( 29624 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:57AM (#91828) Homepage

    There's been a well known bug in TrackNuclearShit.DLL since Win 3.11, and MS has refused to patch it.

    I think if you upgrade to IE 4.1 128 bit security, then disable javascript, but be sure to install MSN wallet software, then things work.

    UNLESS, you're on SP 3 Win NT 4, at which point install the ATI drivers for the All in wonder card from a command line ONLY. Then remove the card with some BBQ tongs and put it in a shed. Do not look at the card for 3 weeks, then quickly put it back in wrapped in tinfoil. Turn the computer upside down. Leave it along for 8 minutes, then quickly apply mayonnaise to the front panel.

    There, that should do it.
  • You're thinking about tritium, which is used to enhance the power of weapons (adding a fusion reaction to the normal fission reaction, an "H-bomb"). Tritium has a half-life of 12 years, so has to be changed from time to time.

    Plutonium has a long half-life.
  • Nukes: A Lesson From Russia

    By Bruce G. Blair

    Although the United States spends nearly $1 billion every year to help
    Russia protect its vast storehouse of nuclear weapons materials from
    theft or sale on the black
    market, few Americans know how this aid helps strengthen America's own
    nuclear safeguards.

    Russian experts at the Kurchatov Institute, the renowned nuclear
    research center in Moscow, recently found what appears to be a critical
    deficiency in the internal
    U.S. system for keeping track of all bomb-grade nuclear materials held
    by the Energy Department -- enough material for tens of thousands of
    nuclear bombs.

    Kurchatov scientists discovered a fatal flaw in the Microsoft software
    donated to them by the Los Alamos National Laboratory. This same
    software has been the
    backbone of America's nuclear materials control system for years. The
    Russians found that over time, as the computer program is used, some
    files become invisible
    and inaccessible to the nuclear accountants using the system, even
    though the data still exist in netherworld of the database. Any insider
    who understood the software
    could exploit this flaw by tracking the "disappeared" files and then
    physically diverting, for a profit, the materials themselves.

    After investigating the problem for many months, the Russians came to
    believe that it posed a grave danger and suspended further use of the
    software in Russia's
    accounting system. By their calculations, an enormous amount of Russia's
    nuclear material -- the equivalent of many thousands of nuclear bombs --
    would disappear
    from their accounting records if Russia were to use the flawed U.S.
    software program for 10 years.

    Then, in early 2000, they did something they didn't have to do: They
    warned the United States, believing that an analogous risk must exist in
    the U.S. system.
    Although neither Los Alamos nor the U.S. Department of Energy has
    publicly acknowledged the possibility that innumerable files on American
    nuclear materials might
    have disappeared, the Russian warning caused shock waves at the highest
    levels of the Energy Department.

    Unlike the Russians, who did not throw away their manual records of
    their nuclear stockpile -- the infamous shoe box and hand-receipt system
    that U.S. assistance
    was intended to supersede -- the United States has long since discarded
    its old written records. To reconstruct a reliably accurate accounting
    record, the Energy
    Department may need to inspect all of America's nuclear materials -- a
    huge task that could cost more than $1 billion and still might not
    detect the diversion of some
    material, should it have occurred.

    The importance of the goodwill and trust that had grown up between
    American and Russian nuclear experts over years of working together in
    this area is clear. When
    the Russian scientists first discovered the computer flaw, the initial
    reaction in some high-level Moscow circles was to suspect an American
    Trojan horse, a bug
    planted deliberately to undermine Russian security. After complaints by
    their Russian counterparts, scientists at Los Alamos suggested that the
    Russian scientists
    instead use a later version of the same program. Kurchatov then
    discovered the upgraded program not only contained the same bug (though
    much less virulent) but
    also had a critical security flaw that would allow easy access to the
    sensitive nuclear database by hackers or unauthorized personnel.

    But trust overrode suspicion. The Russians concluded that the glitches
    were innocent errors, not devious traps. Thus, they feared the U.S.
    database, unbeknown to
    Americans, was not only prone to lose track of nuclear materials but was
    also accessible to unauthorized users. Russia reported both problems to
    Los Alamos, which
  • Nuclear, no... a fork bomb, maybe...
    --
  • This is interesting. One of my old workmates used to say a lot:

    "There are who sorts of code - code that is so complex that there are no obvious bugs and code that is so simple that there are obviously no bugs".

    Wise words...
  • Beryllium/Polonium is old school.


    Modern nuclear explosives use electronic neutron generators. They do not wear out.


    do a search for mc4380


    You might also want to check out the nuclear weapons databook by hansen & friends.

  • I worked at a nuclear fuel manufacturing and research eastablishement for a several years, during which time there was a big press story about radio-active material going missing.

    What was being missed (by the reporters, not the research organisation), was that this was entirely expected.

    (a) Heavy metals weigh a lot, so a little missing sounds like a lot

    (b) When you saw a preice of metal in half, thereis a small qunatitiy of metalic paticles, shavings if you like, that cannot be weighed and accounted for, caught in oil traps etc.

    Over a period of years, this means that an establishment will receive more material than it sends out.

    RG
  • This is somewhat questionable info. Consider especially the "arabmedia.com" provenance. According to what I would think is a more trustworthy site,

    http://fas.org/nuke/hew/Israel/index.html

    "Reports that Zalman Shapiro, the American owner of the nuclear fuel processing company NUMEC, supplied enriched uranium to Israel in the 1960s seems to have been authoritatively refuted by Hersh."

    The cite apparently refers to:

    AUTHOR: Hersh, Seymour M.
    TITLE: The Samson option: Israel's nuclear arsenal and American foreign policy / Seymour M. Hersh. -- 1st ed.
    ISBN/ISSN: 0394570065
    IMPRINT: New York, Random House, c1991
    PHYS DESC: 354 p., 24 cm.

    The point of Drake's paper (which the parent post has [snip]ped) is really how the Arab states can approach disarmament, and not really a serious study of Israeli nuclear development, which she gets only from secondary sources.

    The whole paper can be found at her web site [american.edu].

  • Ahh yes, a true believer in data integrity. By the way, ever tried inserting or updating MySQL tables with a few million rows in them? Oh, and sorry about locking the table to do those updates... Bwahahaha
  • Not quite right.. The reason the plutonium bombs (Little Boy and Trinity) were implosion devices is because they were initially afraid they couldn't scare up enough plutonium, and because having a totally sub-critical bomb was prolly a bit safer.. You can build a gun-type from any supra critical amount of either, and a implosion type from any slightly sub critical mass of either.

    Otherwise how do you explain Project Urchin?
  • But AOL might not like the G infront of a series of words.... don't try Knuclear-Tracker either: adobe seems to tracking down "K" groups...
  • Herbert Marcuse! Ha! Boy, you sure got your money's worth. What a hoot! He's one of those little fruitcakes who slips right out of cultural memory.

    My commencement (last June) was by Bill Cosby. He didn't blame Reagan for anything.

    "When I'm singing a ballad and a pair of underwear lands on my head, I hate that. It really kills the mood."

  • Like this kid tried to do:

    http://www.findarticles.com/m1111/n1782_v297/21281 407/p1/article.jhtml [findarticles.com]

    Just a fun article . . .

  • by ChristTrekker ( 91442 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:59AM (#91841)

    So does this mean that data about radioactive materials itself has a half-life? No wonder I can't remember my college physics classes! All my memories decayed!


    I have zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies.

  • You think that's bad...

    My girlfriend went to a Catholic school, and in an attempt to not scare the children, they were told they were practicing fire drills instead of nuclear attack drills. So all these kids were being taught that in case of fire, crawl under your desk and hide...

  • by cybrpnk ( 94636 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:44AM (#91843)
    In addition to supposed lost Russian nuclear material, actual lost US nuclear weapons and accidents are equally worrisome and more common than anybody realizes, with over a dozen VERY major incidents detailed here [cdi.org]. There's even a monument to the 1957 Broken Arrow incident in New Mexico [clui.org]. If you've got $20 to blow, you can even get a nostalgic guided tour of all these Broken Arrow events narrated by Batman himself, Adam West [atomicarchive.com].
  • I always wondered how the Libyan Nationalists were able to get their hands on all that plutonium for Doc Brown.
  • Suddenly I don't like the way the last week's userfriendly.org [userfriendly.org] is leading.

  • Another one with a half-baked grasp of history 8-(

    the plutonium bombs (Little Boy and Trinity) were implosion devices

    I assume "Little Boy" was just a typo, and to nit-pick, "Trinity" was the name of a test of a device called "Gadget".

    because they were initially afraid they couldn't scare up enough plutonium

    Your logic escapes me. They were worried about Pu shortage, so chose implosion ?

    There was no shortage of Pu, and there was no real concern over this past the very early days. Once a production reactor was on-line (i.e. not just the early Chicago pile), Pu was more readily available than HEU. After all, Pu extraction is relatively simple. Under war conditions, where operator safety goes out of the window, it's almost easy. There was continued concern over HEU production, and this led to the implosion designs being continued with

    explain Project Urchin?

    I can't. I've never heard of "Project Urchin". "Urchins" were developed in the Manhattan project, but not under a project of that name. Is Urchin something else ?

    Why is an Urchin significant to a Pu shortage anyway ? You need an initiator as a neutron source, but they're not a specific component that's only required by one particular configuration. The Urchin concept isn't revolutionary (although making a workable one is hard). It's even too obvious to be patentable (although not by the USPTO's standards). India used them (called "Flower") in their early '70s tests [fas.org]. If you believe the kooks [visi.net] (I don't), even the German bomb design (sic) used a Po/Be urchin.

  • Any nation [...] can build a breeder reactor to make weapons-grade uranium.

    If you don't have the first clue [fas.org] what you're blathering about [bullatomsci.org], kindly shut the hell up.

  • Was he not?

    Count on an actor to deceive is all I have to say.
  • by RickHunter ( 103108 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:22AM (#91849)

    Clue: Open Source does not mean that everyone has access to the source. GPL-style free software licenses mean that those who can get a binary can get the source for free, which in this case would've been a good idea. Then the facility in question could've found and fixed the bug long ago.

    Or would you rather confidential government systems be running a closed-source solution like NT and not know who's getting what data from them?

    (Well, there goes any chance of this getting up above -1 - criticizing Microsoft is a sure way to attract 'troll' and 'flamebait' ratings.)


    -RickHunter
  • Sort of like that penny shaving thing they did in Office Space. I'd rather have 1 trillion pennies than weapon grade nuclear material, though.

    F-bacher
  • The same reason why companies have to spend tons of money doing inventory. If machines get moved around, or *lost*, or missplaced, etc, then if that hardware is important to the company, then they'll need to higher people to sort out the mess. Nuclear data is REALLY REALLY important, and since it's sort of missplaced, they're going to have to do a lot of sorting out. Not everything can be sorted out with simple perl scipts.

    F-bacher
  • by nehril ( 115874 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:38AM (#91852)
    Of course. Just because now nobody knows that this 10kg of weapons grade ever existed, doesn't mean that the poor nuclear tech who hasn't been paid in 5 years will be tempted to sell it.

    I also fully agree that since no rogue nation has ever detonated a bomb in downtown Manhattan, it is obvious that it can never happen. History proves that it is completely impossible, so we should just stop sweating it.

    So if somebody stole material that was recovered, it would be a one time deal.
    Sure, I mean, why should we really care, since if they blew up Jerusalem once, they couldn't possibly do it twice. We'd track that software bug right down in that case. All those people killed in the blast and subsequent radiation posioning can rest easy in the knowledge that at least the same bug won't be exploited again. Probably.

  • maybe it's like the early MS Management Console where if your config got lost you had to type the ip addresses in via a 4 box ip entry widget
    cut and paste? forget it

    They did introduce backing it up later but it was already too late for my neighbour who spent Friday afternoon all Friday Night and into Saturday morning typing in the 200 ip addresses and Virtual Host Names his IIS was hosting.

    You can't buy entertainemnt like that...

    .oO0Oo.
  • Microsoft product has a 'bug' that causes nuclear materials to get 'lost;' don't you realize what this means?! MICROSOFT IS NOW A NUCLEAR POWER! So much for antitrust legislation. Ok, kids, important safety tip: If a Microsoft License inspector leaves his briefcase at your office, RUN!
  • Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

    That your still using DOS. Arrgh run for the hills :-)

    -----------------------------------------

  • Honest to God, I can't believe you got here before me =) -jlp

    Peace,
    Amit
    ICQ 77863057
  • As someone who works on government contracts, I know that there are a lot of people, high up, that give us an extensive level of trust in the quality of our work, while still having us get it done swiftly and on low budget. They trust us with the very safety of our country itself. And, I have but one thing to say to these people.

    Dont Do That!!!!!

    -= rei =-
  • Actually, I can write it as a one liner...

    perl -e 'print "a nuclear bomb\n";'

  • by TomV ( 138637 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:06AM (#91862)
    Just because the software wasn't written by Microsoft doesn't mean a crash or memory lean isn't MS's fault if that SW is running under windows.

    It does when you're dealing with what is patently a piece of Safety-Critical software. I spent a little while working on railway signalling software, and the whole methodology is meant to eliminate this sort of vulerability.

    Microsoft wrote a dodgy database server and a leaky OS. But they didn't make the decision to use those products as the basis for a piece of S-C software. They didn't write the software, design the SP's, build the data abstraction layers, create the failsafe routines.

    What I find disturbing in particular is: where was the testing? Where was the useage simulation? How did a piece of software which turned out to have data integrity issues ever get a Safety Certificate?

    For the Jubilee Line extension signalling, we didn't just limit development to ADA, there was a specified subset of permitted constructs, there were function point limits, a specified compiler, a specified runtime environment, there was rigorous analysis, code inspection, traceability, self-correcting feedback, three copies of everything which all had to match or the system stopped. There were no less than 3 teams of independent testers.

    And even then it took a very long time to get the Safety Case signed off.

    Microsoft shouldn't produce flaky tools, no question. But the very serious culpability here lies not with the creators of the shoddy toolset but with those who chose to implement a Safety-Critical application using these shoddy tools, and those who passed it for use.

    Basic professional skill no. 1: know the right tools for the job in hand

    TomV

  • by fetta ( 141344 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:25AM (#91865)
    When I was in high school in the mid-1980s, the idea of a massive nuclear exchange between the US and USSR seemed very real. We had all grown up with the assumption that a nuclear World War was just around the corner.

    Now we're more concerned with the rogue state or terrorist nuclear weapon.

    I wonder if someone even 10 years younger than I am can understand how much things have changed?
  • Now I may be taking the minority opinion, but this actually doesn't sound like a big deal. Just because the computer loses, say, 120 kilos of U-235 or something does not make the uranium disappear. To this to be a problem, somebody has to actually steal the materials. I don't think that anyone out to steal weapon's grade nuke fixin's are going to be so concerned about a software glitch or rely upon one.

    Also, most nuclear materials can be tracked to their point of manufacture even after they've been assembled into a bomb and detonated. You find the core, you can analyze the left overs and know which plant, US or Russian or god knows who, manufactured the stuff. So if somebody stole material that was recovered, it would be a one time deal.

    Finally, if theft and purchase of nuclear materials are so common, the plans so easy to attain, customs so easy to bypass, why hasn't some "rogue nation" detonated a bomb in downtown Cleveland? or Jerusalem? or Kennebunkport? Shipments have only been intercepted a few times, no terrorists have ever threatened to use nukes, and the only 2 countries that we (the US of Absolute Stupidity) have a major beef with, N. Korea and Iraq, that claim to be developing nukes haven't. What are we worrying about? Oh, and the greatest threat isn't theft, it's assembly. The response time on the guards at our main plant is fast enough to prevent escape, but not fast enough to stop someone from barricading themselves inside, dragging out some material and all the fixin's to a workshop and whipping up a Grade-A 100 megaton party popper. Who needs to escape? Turn the entire mid-west into a glass parking lot.

  • I grew up in New York City and can distinctly remember waking up to the sound of thunder (sometime in 1983 or 1984) and wondering, "Well, was that The Big One?"

    And some local paper -- probably the Daily News -- would dutifully do a report every May Day on the newest Soviet military equipment set to roll over Western Europe, with the little "One army man = 10,000 soldiers" and "one tank icon = 100 tanks" pictographs.

    The same paper would, from time to time, in the Sunday supplement, publish a map of the NYC region with circles centered on the Empire State Building drawn for the different "death radii" of an airburst from a Soviet nuke.

    And, as a teacher interacting with children of the 1990s, no, young people have no idea. Which is both frightening and, oddly, hopeful.

  • I wonder what high schoolers worry about these days.

    Their hair.
  • I agree. Open source is great, but its not the answer for *everything*. Open source zealots are just as bad as closed source zealots (but has nothing to do with Protoss Zealots). The point is, you need to know when to use it and when not to. The balance is the key here...

    --
  • But it sure wasn't Office Space. Office Space even references the other movie they took the idea from.

  • The Slashdot article says 'The editorial says "Microsoft software," but it almost certainly isn't.'

    The editorial says: "Russia reported both problems to Los Alamos, which subsequently verified the defects, as did Microsoft."

    So why was Microsoft involved in verifying the problems, if it has nothing to do with Microsoft software?

    The software seems to be a custom app using MS Access 97 and Visual Basic running with Windows NT and Microsoft SQL Server. It may be a bug in the app itself, or a bug in the underlying software, or both. Nothing I saw really gives a clear indication.

  • Weapons-grade fissionable materials in themselves are relatively easy to make. Any nation that has the know-how to build a nuclear reactor can build a breeder reactor to make weapons-grade uranium. The technology required to make the actual bomb, though, is pretty difficult to figure out.

    Getting the material is actually not as straightforward as you imply. Breeder reactors do not output weapons grade material. The stuff needs to be processed so that it contains the same fissionable isotope at a very high purity. Separating a substance which is chemically the same and differs only by weight is tricky. The weight difference is not that much (several neutrons in a nucleus with over 200 particles). It is very energy intensive and the machinery needed to do it needs to be very precise.

    Also, as you state, making the bomb is not just two hemispheres of matter surrounded by a soccerball of explosives. Yet another case of the movies putting irrational fears into the public consciousness.

    In conclusion, no part of making a nuclear weapon is "easy". It is an incredibly complex operation that would be difficult to hide.

  • Ummm, yeah, I'd believe something I read regarding Israel on arabmedia.com. :)

    Want to try reading some more reliable sources? According to this MIT "Nuclear Economics" course material [mit.edu]:
    "Allegations that a large incident of HEU unaccounted for at the U.S. NUMEC facility in the 1960s was caused by theft of some 100 kg of HEU for transport to Israel, while never fully resolved, are probably incorrect.
    See also Section III of this US Air Force paper [af.mil], which says:
    In the 1990s when the NUMEC plant was disassembled, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission found over 100 kilograms of plutonium in the structural components of the contaminated plant, casting doubt on 200 pounds going to Israel.
  • You actually say it quite accurately:

    Sensitive information in your company/government (my emphasis)

    The key here is the information, which is secret, not the software that processes it.

  • by CaptainZapp ( 182233 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:04AM (#91884) Homepage
    You can't make programs like this open source, if you did everyone would be able to walk in and steal your nuclear material.

    Actually, not even a cigarette. Knowing the source code doesn't compromise security per se, provided that the coders can distinguish their arse from a hole in the ground and didn't hard code database access information into the code.

    Look at encryption. Software like GnuPG [gnupg.org] and to a lesser degree PGP are open source. The algorithms applied are well documented and accessible to anybody.

    Can you crack a GPG encrypted message? Not likely and it doesn't matter at all. Because security is not in the algorithm, but depends entirely on the key, possibly the chosen algorithm and the precaution of the sender and receiver.

    Security through obscurity is about as dumb as it comes.

  • Tritium has a half-life of 12 years, so has to be changed from time to time.

    About 12 1/3 years and it's swapped out every four years, max, usually about 40-45 months in practice.

    1Alpha7

  • Polonium has a half-life of only 138 days. So, even though the plutonium itself decays very slowly, it is the initators that must be regularly replaced.

    None of the LLCs (limited life components) on a nuclear warhead are that short in the USA. We use neutron generators for that purpose, which are mounted to the side of the pit and are replaced about every 12 years.1Alpha7

  • I saw a special on TV about the (formerly) secret city where they manufacture plutonium. They use excess heat produced by the breeder reactor to light and heat the city. Since lots of people still live there, they can't just shut it down, or the place will freeze.

  • by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:23AM (#91895) Journal
    The alternative is that everyone and their brother gets to scour the code for a flaw?

    I think open source is great, and something the government should be using for non-confidential or lower classified systems.
    -

  • by georgewilliamherbert ( 211790 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @10:24AM (#91897)
    Weapons-grade fissionable materials in themselves are relatively easy to make. Any nation that has the know-how to build a nuclear reactor can build a breeder reactor to make weapons-grade uranium. The technology required to make the actual bomb, though, is pretty difficult to figure out.

    This is exactly backwards. Bomb design is, though not exactly kindergarden stuff, actually fairly simple and easy if you know where to look to find the right info to work with. It's manufacturing the special materials in quantity which is hard and expensive.

    Around 1970, the Department of Energy (and specificaly Edward Teller) did a threat analysis program called variously The Third-Country Experiment or The n-th Country Experiment. They took three brand new physics PhDs with no specific course work or training in nuclear physics and told them to design a bomb using only open source materials. This they did, designing a compact (1-ton), reliable (was analyzed by professionals and determined to have essentially full reliability / functionality, though one was not manufactured to test) weaponized plutonium implosion device, in 18 months time. So there's been a demonstration that it can take as little as less than 5 man-years effort.

    See: The Nuclear Weapons FAQ [fas.org] by Carey Sublette and the newsgroup alt.war.nuclear [alt.war.nuclear]

  • Where's the meat of these reports? It's interesting to note that in all cases safety systems worked as required. No nuclear events were recorded although contamination did occur when the casings of weapons were breached and the material spread over the area of the accident. Some of the accidents cited are EXTREME events that push the maximum credible accident design limits.

    I'm wondering if the lack of recent incidents is the result of reports still being classified or if we have increased our safeguards.

    My experience aboard fast attack submarines has always left me with a good feeling about the degree of paranoia the military holds for these devices. They were treated with enormous respect and the security precautions surrounding them always impressed me. It sure was a pain in the butt. I felt the people whose job involved the care of these weapons understood the meaning of what they were doing and carried out the extreme work rules because, ultimately, they made sense.

    Even looking over the history of the Naval nuclear power program you can see that, as our understanding of the dangers of radiation became more sophisticated we also became increasingly diligent in the handling of radioactive materials and in the reduction of radiation exposure. I looked at my old service records and I note that my total radiation exposure while in the service was under 50 mili-REM. Granted, I picked up the Parche in new construction, but I still did maintenance in the Reactor Compartment for years after criticality. We worked VERY hard to limit radiation exposure.

    My feeling on the report cited is that the people who wrote it were fundamentally anti-nuclear and wanted to use existing reports to make things look bad/incompetent.

    Accidents happen, even in zero-defects programs. (Maybe BECAUSE of the zero-defect program psychology). It's good to see that safeguards designed into the weapons worked.
  • Wheee, just as Dubbya takes over, the news media becomes exactly as technologically illiterate as the president himself!

    "The Russians found that over time, as the computer program is used, some files become invisible and inaccessible to the nuclear accountants using the system, even though the data still exist in netherworld of the database."

    Oooh, next they'll tell us that there's no such thing as user or computer error, it's instead the magic pixies in the machine going on strike that brings down the software!

    "Kurchatov scientists discovered a fatal flaw in the Microsoft software donated to them by the Los Alamos National Laboratory."

    In a word, duh... However, Los Alamos (and a good deal of the military) doesn't *use* Microsoft products, except in the case of laptops, etc, non mission critical machines... Half of them are using Unix or whatnot, OS's that have been time tested as reliable and suited to mission critical applications...

    And being that they use software that is essentially time tested, it *has* to be screwups on the part of the Russians, because if such a flaw exists in the software, they would not be a major risk for distribution of weapons grade nuclear fuel, *WE* would...

    Whoever wrote that article for the Washington Post should go back to covering dog shows and the occasional visit of pandas to the Washington Zoo... Or perhaps he should take that up as a career revision...

    Former Minuteman launch officer and president of the center for defense information? They don't program or use computers other than for entering launch trajectories and confirming launch codes, they just turn the little keys, right?

  • We're sorry, your nuclear inventory has changed and Windows Office XP will now shut down. Please contact Microsoft support to obtain a new product activation key.

  • It's not initiators. It's the last-chance protection against accidental detonation. The external neutron sources cause predetonation before high supercriticality is achieved.

    When the warhead is armed, they are removed.

    Initiators are always inside.

  • by Hairy_Potter ( 219096 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:25AM (#91906) Homepage
    the Open Source software for tracking your own nuclear supplies.

    It's not very stable though, the core's it generates tend to glow in the dark.

  • By definition all radioactive materials have a half life. As time passes, radioactive substances decay, reducing their true (useful) mass. It only makes sense that the original creator of this legacy system (probably long-dead of radiation poisoning and unavailable for comment) built in an automated mass-reduction system. Either that or giant, glowing ants ate some of the vacuum tubes in the original machine and the mistake has been embedded since then. :-)

    On another topic, why don't companies bombard radioactive waste with neutrons to make it break down?

    --

  • When I was in high school in the mid-1980s, the idea of a massive nuclear exchange between the US and USSR seemed very real. We had all grown up with the assumption that a nuclear World War was just around the corner.

    Man, now you've got me feeling old. I clearly remember one particular project I did in Junior High; it was a poster detailing possible fallout clouds and "safe zones" in the US immediately following a nuclear strike. I remember researching weather patterns, attack scenarios and the like, only to come to the conclusion that there were a few strips of land in the upper Midwest where civilization could conceiveably continue.

    The thing was, everybody in the class (teacher and myself included) took this thing seriously. We used to read books like Failsafe and spend entire class periods talking about not if such a thing could happen, but when it would happen and whether or not it would cause a full nuclear assault. Scary stuff for kids.

    Footnote

    It was some time later that I learned a) that there were enough targets (bunkers) in the upper Midwest to turn it into a perma-barbeque, and b) in order for civilization to survive somewhere, if must first exist in that place.

    (Apologies to both North Dakotan Slashdot readers)

  • > Clue: Open Source does not mean that everyone has access to the source. GPL-style free software licenses mean that those who can get a binary can get the source for free, which in this case would've been a good idea. Then the facility in question could've found and fixed the bug long ago.

    This statement might actually be relevant if we were talking about a piece of commercial (or commercial-grade) software here. But we're not. This is about a piece of software written for a department of defense contract, and for which I would almost guarantee you the DoD got the source code. The military doesn't just go asking for bids for this kind of project and expect that in the end all they get is a 3.5" floppy disk with a binary on it. "Here you go, here's your nuclear materials inventory software. Now can we have our $10M?"

    The GPL, or its absence, is completely irrelevant to the availability of the source code in this case. The purpose of the GPL is to stop people from distributing binaries without source code, or from modifying software without making the modifications available. This is a situation where a piece of software is written for a single customer, who then has the source code, and there is no incentive on anyone's part to try to distribute it, with or without source.

    You are correct in that the GPL would not have given everyone on the planet (and their dog, and their neighbourhood terrorist, as some here are suggesting) access to the source code. But it's not the only method of making the code available.

    > Or would you rather confidential government systems be running a closed-source solution like NT and not know who's getting what data from them?

    Incidentally, I have heard reports of the US military getting access to source to MS windows when they've decided that it's important.

    Open vs. closed source only makes sense in the consumer world of mass-market software, EULAs, shrink-wrap licenses and DMCA.

  • by skilletlicker ( 232255 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:34AM (#91911)
    This is exactly why I, dictator of a small island country, instruct my military to get all our nuclear bomb-related software from Freshmeat.
    You don't know adrenaline til you guide a nuclear missile with gnuke 0.913 (unstable).
  • Sure... it's a bug. Or, could it have been put there intentionally as an aid to the US government's unofficial trading and sale of weapon materials?

    Or, maybe I've watched too much X-files.
  • You're welcome to send your check back to your congressional representative, with directions to return it to the US Treasury and a request regarding how you think it ought to be spent.

    Of course, you won't do that...
  • by tb3 ( 313150 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @07:07AM (#91921) Homepage
    SQL Server 6.5 is essentially Sybase 4.2 with a Windows GUI glued on. The underlying database engine is at least ten years old, and does not support referential integrity, exepct through the use of triggers.

    I've seen plenty of bad apps written with the VB/SQL Server combination, and very few good ones, so it wouldn't suprise me that they did something dumb, like put the RI in the front-end code, or neglect to use tranactions.

    I would suspect that a lack of proper RI has resulted in orphaned records, which could fit their (wierd) explanation of the problem.

  • Segmentation violation: (atomic) Core Dumped

    [Distant sound of nuclear explosion. Mushroom cloud appears] Ooops. Fetch me an eraser; that town wasn't important anyways.

    D - M - C - A

  • by catherder_finleyd ( 322974 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:49AM (#91926)

    I agree. It sounds like the database may have a flawed relational key structure. In such a case, certain data entry errors for a parent record can cause related child records to become "lost". The child records are likely still there, but are not related to the intended parent.

    More broadly, there are likely to be 2 implied issues with this software:
    1. If the software is 10 YO, it is likely that it was written with less than full attention to modern relational principles, such as database normalization [microsoft.com], application partitioning, etc.

    2. It is certain that the database was changed, ported (*), etc. over its 10 year life. It is again certain that the changes were less than optimal. Some probably even introduced errors.

    * - If the application is 10YO, it is certain that it was NOT written for NT/SQL Server, as SQL Server is not a 10YO application.

    It probably will make sense for the database to be reviewed and rebuilt. In general, applications should be reviewed and re-engineered periodically.
  • It's kind of like the DeCSS fiasco: once the technology gets out, there's nothing you can do to put it back in the bottle.

    But at least you can't write a nuclear bomb in six lines of perl. Or can you?

  • by MajorBurrito ( 443772 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @06:25AM (#91933)
    What's really scary is that former weapons developers for the USSR are providing consulting services for other nations. Pakistan, anyone?

    Weapons-grade fissionable materials in themselves are relatively easy to make. Any nation that has the know-how to build a nuclear reactor can build a breeder reactor to make weapons-grade uranium. The technology required to make the actual bomb, though, is pretty difficult to figure out. It's kind of like the DeCSS fiasco: once the technology gets out, there's nothing you can do to put it back in the bottle. Thankfully, everyone (so far) who has the tech wants to keep it private. Hope the servers they store the info on aren't running Windows!

  • If you can't rely on state workers like me, then who can you trust?
  • ..it's a feature! It demonstrates the phenomena of radioactive decay in its code.

    Just like the stuff it's supposed to track.
  • I was in HS in the mid 60s and part of our curriculum was learning to duck and cover our heads in the event (immenent) of nuclear war. Our communities were actually sounding sirens every Saturday night at nine as a drill. The Bay of Pigs was at the top of the news (propoganda) and we all lived for today cause we actually believed there would be no tomorrow.

    Now we're more concerned with the rogue state or terrorist nuclear weapon.

    If you're that concerned with the rogue state and terrorist nuclear weapons then I suggest you put some pressure on your government to stop creating "ENEMIES" (justification for genocide) throughout the world and stop looking for commies in every closet. In other words --- stop getting your so-called information from the mass media propoganda machine.

    I wonder if someone even 10 years younger than I am can understand how much things have changed?

    The more things change, the more they remain the same. The only thing that has changed is the mindset (or lack thereof) of the masses who want and demand instant gratification and accept rote learning as the norm. What differs from your generation to mine is simple ... we were activists and you are passifists and then you wonder why there's always a supposed threat looming from all corners of the world outside of your backyard. Maybe the REAL threat is in your own backyard?
  • by moncyb ( 456490 ) on Wednesday July 11, 2001 @09:25AM (#91943) Journal
    A failure rate of only %.001 (that is one thousandth of a percent) would mean 56 airplanes would crash EVERY YEAR!!! Companies that make software for issues that are so dangerous that they have millions of lives at stake should be finacialy and criminally liable for any mistakes they make that put anyone in danger..

    What you are talking about is not reasonable. No matter how careful a programmer is, no matter how much testing the code goes through, no matter how many experts scan through the code, there is always the possiblity of a bug or design flaw. It cannot be expected that code written in the real world for use on real devices will be 100% fault tolerant. The same goes for anything else.

    Why do you think there are so many problems with getting good, decently priced healthcare in the US? It is exactly because the doctors have to pay settlements in the millions if they make a very small mistake or a dying patient doesn't survive a very risky surgery (which the patient and family were informed of the risks). What is the result of this? Doctors/hospitals have to pay massive malpractice insurance premiums. HMOs were created, which makes getting serously ill worse, because your provider will hide possible treatments, refuse to pay for critical operations, use accountants to make decisions that only doctors should. And so on, and so on...

    That is just for finacial liability. How would it be if an industry were criminally liable for not being 100.00000% perfect and 100.00000% successful at everything? I imagine it would end up like this: most of the people who are knowledgeable would run away screaming from their job, realizing they could not possibly live up to the standard and would end up in jail. Then you would only be left with clueless idiots, arrogant bastards, and con-artists. After a short time, the idiots and bastards would be in jail because they made some sort of mistake, and the con-artists would be in the Bahamas or somewhere with the millions of dollars they stole from desperate organizations trying to fill in the essential gaps in labor caused by this law. What does that leave us with? Nothing! Because we are talking about critcal industries, what would happen? I don't want to find out.

    People or organizations should be punished if they hide problems or don't use resonable care, however saying that someone must be punished for everything that goes wrong is complete idiocy and shows total disregard for reality.

  • What does this mean:
    The Russians found that over time, as the
    computer program is used, some files become
    invisible and inaccessible to the nuclear
    accountants using the system, even though the
    data still exist in netherworld of the database.


    If the data still exists in the "netherworld"
    (!?) of the database, then why will they have
    to go through a billion dollar physical re-
    inventorying process?

    ;///////////////////////////////////////////////// /
  • Well alot of things are open source. PGP is open source. does that mean everyone can just go in and read your messages? no.

    open source does not mean open data.
  • Nuclear Inventory for Dummies by Broken Arrow Corp.

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

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