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Science

Scientists Discover Another 'Extinct' Tree 127

Posted by Hemos from the what's-under-this-rock dept.
meta5table writes "Scientists have just discovered a previously extinct tree in Mauritius. This is not quite as significant as the Wollemi Pine, but it is still pretty cool. Now I just wish someone would find a thylacine."
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Scientist Discover Another 'Extinct' Tree More

Scientist Discover Another 'Extinct' Tree

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  • The thylacine (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sounds like our Tasmanian Tiger was wiped out by its own nervousness. Suddenly dying of shock when captured is not an evolutionary advantage. It's certainly not the proper way to go about preventing the extinction of your species.

  • Extinction (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Doesn't saving this tree (or any other plant/animal) from extinction go against science's beloved Darwin Theory?

    It seems to me that if the tree is in an area subjected to harsh environments that have landslides and fires might not be a candidate for forgetting about natural selection.
  • Shouldn't your family report the existance of this tree to the forestry researchers working to overcome the blight?

    I've camped under a chestnut tree here in West Virginia that was blooming beautifully, but the trunk of the tree had horrible crevices leaking sap, and was obviously doing poorly due to the attack of the fungus.

    Anything anyone can do to help bring these wonderful trees back should be done asap!

  • post-it (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Perfect! I'm running low on post-its already!

  • Re:Tazmanian Tiger (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Also, I saw a nice conspiracy show that claimed that there are actually a few left in the wild.

    Yes, Elvis is keeping them alive in Area 51 so they can gnaw on Hitler's brain.

  • It seems to me that if the tree is in an area subjected to harsh environments that have landslides and fires might not be a candidate for forgetting about natural selection. That bit seemed a bit hokey to me. It's in this supposedly dangerous area, yet it's over 100 years old. There can't be *that* high a risk of these problems.
  • Are we doing wrong by keeping a species alive that CANNOT reproduce with the direct aid of man?
  • when a mummy thylacine and a daddy thylacine

    You are suggesting necrophillia!?

    Besides it wouldn't work.
    __

  • Bison? (Score:1)

    by arielb ( 5604 )
    There are plenty of bison. The difference is that today we raise them for food instead of chasing hundreds of them off a cliff
  • And I'm sure that your internet connection which is probably on 24/7 more than makes up for the power consumption that you save. Especially if it's broadband. So what are you going to do? Shut down all the data centers and the internet?

  • Figure this, I live in Mauritius which is a small island of a million and a few thousand inhabitants and I first read about this tree on Slashdot.

    I think I need to take a break from the WWW.

    Mauritius is the island where the Dodo bird lived, before being hunt to extinction by the early visitors to the island.

    Mauritius and its neighbouring isles are homes for many rare trees and animals, among which are the VERY rare Pink Pigeon, Echo Parakeet and the Mauritian Kestrel which was once, the World's rarest bird.

    For those who care to know more visit

    http://www.maurinet.com/wildlife.html [maurinet.com]
    http://www.themyp.com [themyp.com]
    http://www.mauritian-wildlife.org [mauritian-wildlife.org]

  • You're the "usage police" or the "semantic police," not the "grammar police." So am I.
  • Sounds like our Tasmanian Tiger was wiped out by its own nervousness.

    And maybe it was the fear of being buried in billions of tonnes of speeding, sediment-laden water that killed off the trilobites?

    A pity; I'd like some for my garden pool, and am looking forward to live ones being discovered, as the Coelacanth was.

    How about you?

  • There are parts of TaSmania (what is it with Americans and Z? Do you guys have a problem using s?) where they could remain hidden but would have been hopelessly interbreed by now.

    Of course cruel people would say that about everybody in Tasmania :)
  • >Everyone is born right-handed. Only the
    >greatest overcome it.

    I don't know why that sounds so sinister...

    ARGH! It's times like that I REALLY wish there was a "+1 - Bad Pun" moderation category...


    ---

  • Pun intended, I hope!

    Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

  • How willing would we be to preserve this tree if it produced a noxious gas as a waste product, instead of oxygen as most plants do?

    People felt the same way about wolves and other "varmints" in the U.S., and now some areas have way too many deer as a result. Until the tree's been studied, how do we know that the noxious gas isn't keeping down the mosquito population?

    Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

  • Somehow I imagine for thylacines there's some biting and scratching involved, too :)

    Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

  • Re:The thylacine link (Score:3)

    by rvr ( 15565 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @10:23AM (#132392) Homepage
    Mammals drink moms milk.

    They are split into three categories: placental, marsupials and monotremes.

    Placental=gestate in womb, these are most common, like homo sapiens and pigs.

    Marsupials=pouched animals, mother has no placenta, like kangaroos.

    Monotremes=rare these animals are egg-laying, a reminder of things past, like the duck-billed platypus.

    You are welcome.
  • Please refer to The Corn Fuel Ethanol Home Page [ontariocorn.org] or one of the many other pages turned up by google by searching for Corn Fuel .

    Ford seems to be pushing ethanol failry heavily. Personally do not have a car with an engine capable of burning it (without damage... I'm sure it Would burn...) to test and see the performance offered by it, but it seems like a very promising alternate fuel source.
  • Not Communism, but perhaps socialist in a way. I do know who John Galt is, and yet I still agree with the the GPL (as I can recall, Ayn Rand never specifically deals with IP either, which is what the GPL is really about).

    While I disagree with a forced sharing of the fruits of ones labor, I also believe that a free exchage of information is imperative, especially when it comes to an operating system. I dissagree with the Microsoft FUD that the GPL is a virus (I mention this because your tone is similar to various interviews with MS personel that I have read).

    If I release a piece of code I do so because I want to do so(notice the I there, this is my desire. Ayn Rands most important thesis is that of "rational self interset" or the "virtue of selfishness"). If someone wishes to make a derivative work, I do not want them to use my code, but keep their changes as their own, and not share, that is an act of bad faith. I do not pretend that the open source movement is a movement of benefactors; we all do things for our own selfish reasons; there is no other way. I use open source software. I think that this movement is great, especially after dealing with the likes of Microsoft for so long. If I were to give back to to the comunity it would be for selfish reasons; mainly bacause I want to increase the functionality of the tools I use. I do not pretend that I could write an entire operating system, but if I write a small part, even one tool, I am contributing to a larger whole. I do not do this for free, although I am not paid in cash.

    The bottom line is that if you do not wish to release your works, you don't have to. As far as Slashdot goes, this is a free country, you can chose another news site if you wish. There are many who read this site (including me) who are interested in this subject (extinct/rediscovered species) and other subjects featured on this site. I for one would be very interested if a living Tasmanian Tiger were found.

  • Anglo-Saxons had the technology to acomplish the exterminations that many other ethnic groups had attempted.

    Modern US history books make American Indians out to be these doe eyed pacifists that got slaughtered. Certain tribes did some truly vicious things to white settlers and other tribes. Did white people commit atrocities in the name of civilization and manifest destiny? Absolutely. But it wasn't a one way street.

    -B
  • I'll refer to my personal hero, George Carlin, on this one:

    Carlin on the word "Indian" [geocities.com]

    The short version is that what we call India was called Hindustan back then. Columbus came back to Spain (being an Italian guy that didn't speak great Spanish) and told the court he had found "Una gente in Dios," a people in God. "In dios" became "Indian".

    -B
  • Mexican truck driver, who had shot it and cooked it for dinner. The significance of his meal seemed lost on him, because when told the woodpecker was extinct, he looked sad and said, "Too bad...it was good and meaty, and I was looking forward to shooting another one."

    Sorry, no tears here. There's these things called the food chain, and natural selection. That's nature, hard at work.


    --Gfunk
  • Why don't you take your big, glossy, ejaculate-encrusted posters of Ayn Rand and go live on a remote desert island somewhere, bonehead. See how far you get being your own man in a place without the support of a community. Don't forget, using survival techniques you learned from other human beings is cheating! You're a man! Make it all up yourself.

    As I don't see you packing, I guess I'll have to wait for you to get out of highschool and get a real life before even hoping you'll understand that there is no such thing as an individual human being. We're all just parts of a larger organism called a society, directly and indirectly feeding, nurturing, and supporting one another. John Galt would've driven a train over his own mother, but without her tits to suck on he never would have made it to kindergarten. Grow up, boy!
  • ...I vote for Neither.
  • True, but like most things, the Truth (tm) falls somewhere in between the Collectivist and Objectivist philosophies. While Collectivists never succeeded in the real world, Objectivists wouldn't recognize the real world if it fell on them.
  • You mentioned the thylacine, a.k.a. the Tazmanian Tiger. They actually have a fetal specimine preserved...I bet it won't be long until they are able to clone it.

    Also, I saw a nice conspiracy show that claimed that there are actually a few left in the wild.
  • There's no predator bigger than a fox in England, and no game bigger than a scrawny red deer.


    I just saw a show on Discovery that claims there are a number of big cats in England that used to be pets before some law went into effect back in the late 70's.

  • Well predator-prey relationships are natural, so from that perspective I can't see what's wrong with us waging war on viruses (virii?) that attack us!

    However if general I agree - we know so little about the true balance of nature that I think there's pretty much a 100% track record of disaster everytime we've tried to introduce non-native species as a "natural" was to deal with a problem.

    For every "insignificant" or non-cuddly species cause to go extinct, there are obviously going to be ramifications, and with the chaotic dynamics of species populations, who's to say that one day we may unwittingly cause (say) a population explosion in a virus that will wipe us out. It would be a fitting way to go.
  • I think that if einstein here finds a bird with a pouch he wants to call it a marsupial! I guess by those rules a bat is a bird, not a mammal!
  • Well, that'd be the [i]normal[/i] thylacine way, but then there's also... when a cloning scientist takes cells from daddy's butt-hair and injects them into a kangaroo egg...

  • Re:so what? (Score:4)

    by SpinyNorman ( 33776 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:53AM (#132406)
    You don't understand either the scientific knowledge to be gained from studying it, or the human interest in seeing a glimpse into life on earth 150M yrs ago?

    It also happens to produce Taxol, so has huge commercial possibilities medicinally as well as horticulturally.

  • Re:don't (Score:1)

    by pq ( 42856 )
    I bet you drive an electric car too ... no?
    Hypocrite.

    Well, actually, I don't own a car at all. Being a grad student in a reasonable town, I find that public transport and my bike meet most of my needs. I'm happy for you, though, in your little bubble of complacency...

  • It's a well-written page, almost eloquent, and very wistful and sad... ah, what a mess. And W wants to drill away, full steam ahead, in spite of repeated opinion polls showing that the majority of gas-guzzling Americans still value wildlife over oil comapny profits. (There's still some hope [nytimes.com], though.)

    But the rest of the respondents are correct, the anglo-saxons are not much different from others: you only have to look at the mess the Chinese have made, or the emergent situation in India. When population pressure and wildlife habitat collide, wildlife always loses, because animals don't vote, now do they?

  • www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/mammals/thylacin.htm l

    But it's a marsupial, not a mammal. Or are marsupials mammals?

  • Supporting evidence here [futureframe.de] and here [advancedcell.com].
    --

  • Amazing! Someone mentions goat sex and it's not off topic.

  • > There are two places where a morality discussion is futile:
    > 1) Titty bar
    > 2) Slashdot.

    So what the hell am I doing here instead of bein' at the titty bar where I belong?

    (Oh yeah, I'm a geek, I forgot about that for a minute.)

  • The difference is that today we raise them for food instead of chasing hundreds of them off a cliff


    People have been eating bison since shortly after the first people saw their first bison. The real difference is that now we selectively harvest the herd by mechanical means instead of running the entire herd off of a cliff to avoid taking massive personal damage in hand-to-horn combat.
  • We Americans exterminated the passneger pigeon...

    The decline of the passenger pigeon began when the westward migration of man finally reached the pigeon's tradional flyways. Shortly thereafter, American men began hearing a refrain that is familiar even today; "Wilbur, you fix them durn pigeons so they quits messing on my wash line or you'll be sleeping in the barn."

  • If you'd read the article, you'd see that this wasn't the case as some of the 67 specimins on this island might be as old as 1000 years. It was thoguht extinct becausen one had been seen since the early 19th century.
  • Well there's something to be said for the whole shared process we're going through right now - us and the rest of nature I mean. I'm not personally a bit worried. Certainly the human race, like weeds, will be culled by nature when our own environments become unlivable and overrun with disease. This is far far off, past your grandchildren's lifetime probably, but it's the inevitable course of nature. The human race will be brought close to extinction but will be saved by its diversity. At best a really nasty plague could only take out 25% of us - if that.

    On the other hand, once humans are depopulated the rest of nature will continue on its day to day course of evolution as usual, branching and diversifying again.

    Not even a major comet collision could take out all of us. Our distant cousins in the deep sea vents will see to that.

    We have a lot of space, and I say we branch out and make some use of it, live our space age science fiction lives, learn the same stupid lessons over and over again for eternity as our limbs get all funky from adapting to the low gravity of Mars....

    --------
    Yeah, I'm a Mac programmer. You got a problem with that?
  • Things can't be "previously extinct."

    Once you're extinct, you're extinct. Things can, however, be "previously thought to be extinct."

  • apologies in advance for the topic drift. This has little to do with trees or extinction.

    To borrow a well-worn chestnut:

    Ethanol is the fuel of the future. Always has been, always will be.

    The largest problem with using ethanol is not technical but economic. Although a quick search of Google didn't turn up the sort of hard numbers I like, memory serves that ethanol manufacturing costs are somewhere in the vicinity of $3/gallon.

    Brazil backed off of their ethanol program due to the cost of farm and fuel subsidies to keep ethanol cost-competitive with gasoline.

    Here's a study [qlg.org] which says we can make and sell ethanol in CA for $1.75/gallon, but environmental researchers are cheap and factories are expensive.

    I'd like to see more ethanol in use. The only thing that's missing is cheap eth (or expensive gasoline).

    If someone can find a pointer to a working plant which is producing ethanol for $1.50 a gallon or less, send a reference my way (and pour a little bit of it over these ice cubes while you're at it please...)

    j.

  • Actually, I was thinking Jurassic Wood.

    ...wait, we're not talking about Porn, are we?

    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
  • You bastards! We can do one continent a week, I know it...
  • Ye! Utuvienyes! Lo, here is a scion of the eldest of trees! But whence comes it here? For it is itself not more than three summers old.
  • I'll bite. Ilyich, what was the plant that was presumed extinct that you rediscovered?
  • This [state.va.us] is you? I am impressed! Too bad for your sake that I'm not some cute blonde 19 year old impressed coed, but I am impressed all the same.... I've always wondered how you verify the discovery / recovery of a new / rare species. Usually I wonder this right when some cool looking gold-shelled beetle with emerald green eyes lands nearby and I wonder if this is a new species that I could name cybrpnkii bugii.... Please allow me to read between the lines of your postings and make a comment or two. So what if nobody else around you thinks trees are cool or even doesn't care about your solid achievements as a naturalist? What you care about IS important, whether anybody shares that with you or not, and deep inside you obviously know that. The world is full of people who don't care and own chain saws. The day that the few people like you stop caring about conservation is the day the last field gets paved over, and that will be a very bad day indeed. It's people like you who poke around under rocks in the forest (so to speak) that have given all of us the keys to genetic engineering [thesquare.com] and leads on a cure for cancer [montana.edu]. This is important even tho the financial rewards [nps.gov] are often lacking [essential.org]...So best of wishes on your wildlife pursuits, and who knows, I'm a Tennessee native (Go Vols!) living in north Alabama, if I ever bump in to you in Gatlinburg or the Smokies, the drinks are on me! -cybrpnk (rickyjames@email.com)
  • I saw your namesake's tomb in Moscow back in 1993... I was part of a Boeing team that was launching a protein crystal experiment to Mir. Russia, what a country...just like Chicago back in the 20s...

  • Save American Chestnut : Our National Extinct Tree (Score:4)

    by cybrpnk ( 94636 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:56AM (#132425)
    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading from /.ers about how "trees aren't news for geeks". Come on!!! Trees are where books come from!!! Trees are exercises in fractal mathematics!!! Trees are how apes like us escaped extinction from feline and canine predators!!! Trees are just plain cool in several meanings of the word!!! And extinct trees are yet another arena to play Jurassic Park!!! Speaking of extinct trees (or those almost so), nothing can top the story of the American Chestnut [geocities.com]... from "chestnuts roasting on an open fire" fame. More details here [ncnatural.com]. There is hope that one day these magnificent trees will be revived [geocities.com]...
  • Move along folks, nothing to see here. Just a common, garden variety troll.
  • now that would be something to find... a Tree of Life in this time of the Wheel's turning.

    elmindreda
    "milda makaroner vad det ryker ur farmors ödla"
  • I saw a documentary about a year ago, one part of a series on mysterious animals, that may or may not (still) exist.

    The conclusion of this episode was that there are significant enough portions of Tazmania that are dense and remote enough for a small population of tazmanian tigers to exist.

    Also that it is possible that an equally small population could exist on the (Australian) mainland (there have been sightings, some recent on the mainland as well as on Tazmania).

    The series (I think it was called X-Creatures or something like that) was pretty good and provided well rounded views on the possibility of the existance of the various animals. It took into account things like food source, habitat extent, the size of population the area could support, wether the population would be big enough to continue for long enough.... If you get a chance watch it.
  • Marsupials are mammals.
  • "I'm Broccoli! Most intelligent vegetable in the known universe! I have an IQ of ten, damnit, TEN!!"

    "Broccoli is getting pissed!!!"

    *chuckle*


    --Fesh

  • I lived in Mauritius for 3 years. I went to St. Joseph's College there. Hence my user name. My dad still works there.

  • Good lord! I had no idea we were even at war with India, much less exterminating whole tribes of them.

    Must the Native American tribes forever be referred to as Indians because Columbus was a boob?

  • We need to find two;

    Actually you need more than that unless you want an experiment in in-breeding (read: The Royal Family).

  • Whats all this environment/extinction/science stuff?

    No movies to review?


    Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
  • Fuel? The only gas that corn produces doesn't quite run any machinery I know of, but it does wonders to clear an area of all forms of mobile life. :) :) :)
  • There are two places where a morality discussion is futile:
    1) Titty bar
    2) Slashdot.

  • You're too late, American Business Financial Services [abfsonline.com] already pulped it to send me information about their latest investment note rates.

    Even if you request information in electronic format, these guys still send you junk mail. Not just once or twice either. At least once, sometimes twice per week for the past four months.

    Their customer service was totally unresponsive to my request not to send snail mail. After all, my whole purpose for requesting the information online was to be environmentally responsable and avoid this.

    I don't consider myself an "environmental wacko", but these guys definitely deserve to be the target of an angry e-mail campaign or something.

  • That's exactly what I'm talking about! The industry wants softwoods because their easy to process and fast growing. The fast growing trees of today are not any more resistant than the days of old growth lumber. In fact the wood is softer, weaker and dimensionally unstable. Old growth lumber is the most sought after wood for furniture because of this fact.

    I'm not saying that we should not plant softwoods but just have more of a mixture. If not we'll all be stairing at those sh*tty pine cabinets years from now instead of enjoying the maple, oak, cherry, and the likes.

    Trevor.
  • As a woodworker I can't wait to cut one down and make a Humidor!

    Seriously though it would be good to see our own countries doing a little more to conserving and reseeding our forests with native trees rather than just the ones that'll make the most profit. It takes a Maple take 100 years to grow but that's no excuse to grow 4 crops of pine or the likes in that time solely for profit.

    My opinions are my own, if they were to be shared by others the world would be a scary place!!

  • Two, surely. (Score:4)

    by jedwards ( 135260 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @09:16AM (#132440) Homepage Journal
    Now I just wish someone would find a thylacine.
    We need to find two; you see, when a mummy thylacine and a daddy thylacine love each other very much .....
  • Like an AC asked; how is that different from non-AS people? Biologists suspect indian tribes had actually managed to extinct a few large mammals long before europeans (of which english people were but a part) came. In Europe, all nations and tribes have succesfully gotten rid of large felines, most bears and hordes of other specii/genii.

    The fact aussies and americans appear to have done more damage has more to do with vast land masses of these countries, than with any specific intrinsic drive to destroy. I'm afraid the same traits are present with all people, although ignorancy probably plays a bigger part than actual maliciousness.

    But what do I know, I'm no anglo-saxon. :-)

  • Definitely, second vote for LCTS, it's a great book. Tragic facts, touching scenes, and still furnished with DA's masterful humour (stories about buying condoms in China and such made my stomach hurt from laughing)

    Slightly related to this article, too; there was a mention of another nearly extinct tree growing in Mauritius in that book, wasn't there? (or was it on some other island in Indian pacific, Maledives perhaps?)

  • What is interesting, though, is that according to a few studies, having mixed species forest is a benefit for lumber/paper industry too. Not only are those forests less vulnerable to various tree diseases, the trees also tend to grow faster (possibly related to better resistance).

    This was studied quite a bit in Finland a while ago, and (hopefully) has changed the procedures used when re-planting cut down forest. The problem there, too, was that industry wanted pure pine forests, without leaf trees (like birches or aspends). The (only) downside is/was that it's slightly easier not to worry about 'wrong' trees when harvesting. Shouldn't be much of a problem now that most of the cuttings are partial ones (not the 'cut down everything' style that was popular earlier)

    So... it may be that economy and ecology occasionally lead to same direction. Not common perhaps, but happens.

  • I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading from /.ers about how "trees aren't news for geeks"

    Word.

    Go American Chestnut!

    Hey, btw....I bet I'm the only person on Slashdot who personally has rediscovered a plant that was presumed extinct.

    Ilyich

  • Sida inflexa....aka the pineland fanpetals aka the Virginia pine sida.

    It's an herb that's related to hibiscus - it's got very pretty, small orange-yellow flowers but otherwise isn't particularly showy. The only known collections are from SE Virginia and NE North Carolina (about 6 total), and until I found it, it apparently hadn't been seen since 1968.

    Last I heard, though, some guy at Texas A&M decided that "S. inflexa" really isn't worthy of specieshood or even varietyhood, but is just a slightly oddball variation of Sida elliottii at the northern end of elliottii's range. Pbbtt, I say.

  • not like you care, but to correct a couple of things I said...

    * The guy who poo-pooed on Sida inflexa is from UT, not A&M

    * S. inflexa wasn't presumed to be extinct per se, but rather was declared "Globally Historic," which basically means that nobody's seen it for a long time but no one's looked too terribly hard for it either. Of course, to say you found a species that was "presumed extinct" sounds a lot cooler than to say you found one which was "globally historic".

    pedantically yours,
    Ilyich

  • My parents have a 50-year-old blight-resistant American Chestnut in the front yard in NH. Beautiful tree, great chestnut yield, and about a week's worth of work to pick up all the "flowers" and "porcupine eggs" every year. The town wanted to cut it down to widen a road, but when they realized what it was, they left it alone.
  • In fact most Indian tribes were big on being warriors. They were fighting each other long before the (European) settlers came over. But there were a number of differences.

    Indians prefered small battles (perhaps 6-20 Indians per side) and usually they just snuck up and stole stuff (horses mostly). While Europeans, usually had 'wars', which were made up of many battles.

    The Indians were finite in number (tribes did not combine until almost the end of the 'old west') and therefor had very limited resourses concerning manpower. Europeans had nearly an endless supply of people. If an army troop got whiped out, the got more soldiers.

    Finally technology, the gun reaches farther than an arrow.

    But I think the real undoing was the fact that we simply outnumbered the Indians.
  • In order to bring back the goat, wouldn't they need to clone two goats, a male and a female?
  • But do you think someone is trying to send a message?

    The slashdot 2 minute between postings limit:
    Pissing off coffee drinking /.'ers since Spring 2001.

  • Um, except that while some may have indeed referred to the subcontinent as "Hindustan", the name India has been used by Europeans since the ancient Greeks.

    And that whole "in Dios" thing smacks too much of folk etymology.
  • We Americans exterminated the passneger pigeon, nearly the bison, and wiped out countless Indian tribes.

    Weren't the indians homo sapiens?

    -Compenguin

  • .. because it grows wild in the places it's native to.
  • "The Aussies exterminated half of their continents mammals, and made a dang good inroad on the abo's, too"

    I suppose the English came over 30,000 years ago and introduced wild dogs to get a head start on the colonization that was to come later, right? There were LOTS of other species in Australia, New Zealand and Tazmania that went extinct en masse just as people migrated to these places from SE Asia.

    Hunting species to extinction is a HUMAN-WIDE activity and not just limited to those with the pale, pink skins!! SHEESH!

  • No man is an island... (Score:3)

    by xmark ( 177899 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @12:12PM (#132455)
    The thylacine reference reminds me of a story told by the great biologist Edward O. Wilson concerning the last Imperial Woodpecker. After two weeks of tracking following a sighting in northern Mexico, the trail led to a Mexican truck driver, who had shot it and cooked it for dinner. The significance of his meal seemed lost on him, because when told the woodpecker was extinct, he looked sad and said, "Too bad...it was good and meaty, and I was looking forward to shooting another one."

    I'm not an ecofreak, but it takes profound ignorance (or denial) to not see that decreased biodiversity will create a lot of problems. We are currently in the midst of the sixth great extinction that has occurred during the history of life. If current trends continue, within a century this event will become both the fastest and the most sweeping extinction ever, beating even the great Permian extinction [slashdot.org] of about 275 million years ago, and absolutely dwarfing the K-T (Cretaceous-Tertiary) [slashdot.org] dinosaur extinction caused by a giant meteorite 60 million years ago. Every day more than a hundred species disappear. One or two have probably evaporated while you are reading this post.

    Ha ha, another tropical tree is extinct. Or beetle. Or slouch rat. Or passion flower. The mall is still open, the sky is still blue, and besides, we've got films of all that stuff we can watch on the Discovery Channel. So what?

    Messing with biodiversity is no laughing matter. After the Permian extinction, fungi were temporarily the dominant life form on Earth. Sure, in a few tens of millions of years, whatever's left after we're finished will begin speciating again, and eventually restore biodiversity. In the meantime, however, remember that we evolved not as a stand-alone species, but as nodes in a great web, a network of interdependent creatures, feedback loops, and survival dependencies. Air, water, and soil all depend on this network. Our food, our health, our very breath depend on it. (For the cost/benefit analysis crowd -- our economy depends on it.) Like a well-designed computer net, the web of life is fault-tolerant and self-healing...up to a point. After that point, the network crashes and burns.

    Wilson suggests imagining sitting in the window seat of a jetliner as it taxis to the runway. As you look out on the wing you can see the rows of rivets holding the wings together. Each makes an undetermined contribution to the ability of the plane to fly. Now, as you watch, a few of the rivets start popping out. The process continues...at what point do you start to wonder about the integrity of the wing? More succinctly, at what point do you start to feel afraid?

    Biodiversity is like this. No one can say when the crucial rivet has popped. But even if the crucial rivet is still (temporarily) in place, risk begins accumulating at an ever-increasing rate. We are right to be afraid of losing diversity. Already, we've undertaken enormous risk. Is there anyone out there who really thinks we need to keep converting the biomass of other species into ever more biomass of our own? (For starters, I can think of better things to do with Imperial Woodpecker meat than turn it into Mexican Truckdriver meat.) Nothing will get better with billions more people, and a lot of things will get worse.

    If you want to check out some well-written and interesting books on the subject, Wilson's book Biodiversity is a good read, as well as Roger Lewin's and Richard Leakey's book The Sixth Extinction.

  • Scientists have just discovered a previously extinct tree in Mauritius.

    Wow, it was previously extinct? Did it spontaneously re-evolve from a related species? Or maybe the science of Jurassic Park isn't as far off as we thought...

    (Note to moderators: This should be classed as Funny, not Insightful.)

  • I believe this cannot at this stage happen, as the fetus was stored in an incorrect solution (ether?), which destroyed the genetic information, and therefore they cant clone it with current technology.
  • Do viable, yet ungerminated, seeds count as an extant tree? Or does there need to be a growing specimen in order for a plant to count as still extant?
  • Obviously you are a keen intellectual, one who has closely studied the merits of objectivist philosophy. Had you been otherwise, you would not have realized that the end result of self-interest in our society creates the interdependence you described, and that by denying said self-interest and attempting to thwart supply and demand one upsets the delicate balance of interdependence, resulting in shortages, famine, and human suffering. But as a highly accomplished scholar, you already knew all of the above. Oh, and "bravo" on your use of euphemism in reference to bodily fluids and parts. Your subtle indicative style is a hallmark of good taste. In reality: Only the Neanderthals and the communists (supposedly) lived under "communal, selfless" principles to which you claim all human beings should adhere. They didn't last for a good reason. See, the key term you are skirting but never really mention is interdependence. Interdependence represents the epitome of human evolution; human beings working in concert and by their work improving the lot of everyone involved. Everyone (except for those who do not believe in progress, and they do exist) agrees with this principle. But what you (and many others) don't understand is that a system of dependents on the one hand and providers on the other is NOT a system of interdependence. In order to become interdependent, you must FIRST be independent. Becoming independent is NOT impossible, as you and others would like everyone to believe; the existence of independence would destroy your theory that EVERYONE is dependent on EVERYONE else(and ergo, we are all each others' brothers). Believing that you are dependent on others is the first step towards stagnation and deprivation of the human mind. Once you realize that only YOU are the purveyor of your own destiny, and that YOU are capable of breaking your dependence and weaning yourself from others' hands, THEN you can become independent for the first time and move onwards towards the next step. When multiple independent people get together, they enact mutually beneficial agreements (read: TRADE) that are fundamentally self-interested but, due to the nature of human ingenuity, good for BOTH parties at the same time. This is interdependence. Do you see that since dependents have nothing to offer in trade that society as a whole benefits nothing from their existence? Dependence should be shunned from a healthy society as an Absolute Evil. This is not only the principle of Objectivism. It's also the same idea found in Stephen Covey's book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People." Sure, everyone starts out as a dependent. But when they GROW UP they outgrow their dependence. And at their peak, they even become interdependent. But you can't jump straight from dependence to interdependence, because in interdependence EACH PARTY MUST HAVE SOMETHING OF EQUAL VALUE TO OFFER IN TRADE. Only independents can produce something worth trading. And, in the case of elderly family members, that includes love. I must conclude that since you obviously have not conceived of the realm past that of dependence on others, that it is YOU who have not fully grown up. But resorting to diminutive insult is no form of rational argument. I wonder whether you realize it?
  • Actually, LCTS is quite avialable and usually ships within 24 hours at Amazon [amazon.com]
  • OK, this is slightly OT, but I took my kid to see Atlantis for Father's Day (which I actually found quite enjoyable), and in the scene with Milo and the benefactor of his voyage to discover the lost city, the guy has a giant fish tank with coelacanths (coelacanthii? coelacanthuses?) swimming around in the background... I thought it was a nice touch... in any event...
  • It also happens to produce Taxol, so has huge commercial possibilities medicinally as well as horticulturally.

    Extremely interesting, and of course we will be allowed to tamper with these endangered trees, possibly endangering them further, so that we can make some money.

    Humans have always been at odds with nature, and at this point in time have the ability to greatly impact the course of evolution, by both driving some life forms to extinction, and preserving other out-of-time life, mostly depending on cuteness or how much money might be gained in marketing panda liver pate.

    I am intrigued by the pursuit of knowledge, but attaching artificial significance to something because it either makes you feel good or could make you some money has nothing to do with that pursuit. It is a by-product, and should not be the drive. If we choose to preserve this tree, that decision should not be influenced by the commercial possibilities.

    How willing would we be to preserve this tree if it produced a noxious gas as a waste product, instead of oxygen as most plants do? What of the plight of the small pox virus? Shall we let small pox die out merely because it suits us?

    Dinsdale . . . .

  • Slightly related to this article, too; there was a mention of another nearly extinct tree growing in Mauritius in that book, wasn't there?

    Yup. Iirc, it was some sort of wild coffee thing which had to be kept under armed guard because people were slowly killing it taking bits off as souvenirs of its rare status.

  • Somewhere offshore of Costa Rica, on small island, someone plans a Jungle Theme Park featuring revived species of flora.

    While moving a crated cage a worker slips and is dragged screaming into the cage before his comrades can rescue him. The camera pans past a rainsoaked corner of the crate as lightning flashes...Danger: Jurassic Flytrap!

    Brrr....

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • ... if you have any interest in this article... go get Douglas Adams' Last Chance To See.

    (Currently backordered at Amazon, unfortunately.)

    Great book. Well worth the (quick) read... funny... interesting... inspiring... touching...

  • Thylacine@Home (Score:3)

    by blair1q ( 305137 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:39AM (#132477) Journal
    Thylacine@Home [tas.gov.au]: use your computer to help search the Tasmanian northlands for signs of this elusive marsupial cat-dog.

    --Blair
    "I see a great need."
  • when a species becomes extinct due to nature, it is natural selection... humans are a part of nature as well... why try to save every species? we can't do it, first of all, and secondly- it will make our ecosystem stagnant.

  • Pyrenessian mountain goat (Score:5)

    by Marcus Brody ( 320463 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:23AM (#132484) Homepage
    this is mildly offtopic, but i was reminded of a news article from around a year ago. true story.

    The last pyrenesse mountain goat left in the world was on a 24hr watch by park rangers. There was talk of cloning it, using a related goat species as the surrogate mother.

    And then a tree fell on it...

  • Most(if not all)Marsupials are mammals. The north-american possom is a marsupial and is also a mammal. All an animal has to have in order to be a marsupial is a pouch to carry their young in.
    ----

  • Seeds (Score:3)

    by Blue Aardvark House ( 452974 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:08AM (#132492)
    Plants seem to be a little more resistant to extinction. Even though all members of the species have disappeared, the seeds may still exist, and they can remain fertile for many years before finally sprouting.

    This may have happened here.

  • Re:What counts as extinct? (Score:3)

    by Blue Aardvark House ( 452974 ) on Friday June 22, 2001 @08:17AM (#132493)
    Do viable, yet ungerminated, seeds count as an extant tree?

    I'm no expert, but I suppose if no viable plants or seeds can be found, it should be considered extinct. Finding seeds in soil is exceedingly difficult to do; if no seeds exist "in captivity", it is assumed to be extinct.
  • Everyone is born right-handed. Only the greatest overcome it.

    I don't know why that sounds so sinister...

  • They did have their own name for themselves.. we just don't care.

    You're right. From now on I will refer to them as the Peoples of the Adirondack, Delaware, Massachuset, Narranganset, Potomac, Illinois, Miami, Alabama, Ottawa, Waco, Wichita, Mohave, Shasta, Yuma, Erie, Huron, Susquehanna, Natchez, Mobile, Yakima, Wallawalla, Muskogee, Spokan, Iowa, Missouri, Omaha, Kansa, Biloxi, Dakota, Hatteras, Klamath, Caddo, Tillamook, Washoe, Cayuga, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, Laguna, Santa Ana, Winnebago, Pecos, Cheyenne, Menominee, Yankton, Apalachee, Chinook, Catawba, Santa Clara, Taos, Arapaho, Blackfoot, Blackfeet, Chippewa, Cree, Mohawk, Tuscarora, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Comanche, Shoshone, Two Kettle, Sans Arc, Chiricahua, Kiowa, Mescalero, Navajo, Nez Perce, Potawatomi, Shawnee, Pawnee, Chickahominy, Flathead, Santee, Assiniboin, Oglala, Miniconjou, Osage, Crow, Brule, Hunkpapa, Pima, Zuni, Hopi, Paiute, Creek, Kickapoo, Ojibwa, and Shinnicock Tribes.

    It's awful how the Peoples of the Adirondack, Delaware, Massachuset, Narranganset, Potomac, Illinois, Miami, Alabama, Ottawa, Waco, Wichita, Mohave, Shasta, Yuma, Erie, Huron, Susquehanna, Natchez, Mobile, Yakima, Wallawalla, Muskogee, Spokan, Iowa, Missouri, Omaha, Kansa, Biloxi, Dakota, Hatteras, Klamath, Caddo, Tillamook, Washoe, Cayuga, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, Laguna, Santa Ana, Winnebago, Pecos, Cheyenne, Menominee, Yankton, Apalachee, Chinook, Catawba, Santa Clara, Taos, Arapaho, Blackfoot, Blackfeet, Chippewa, Cree, Mohawk, Tuscarora, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Comanche, Shoshone, Two Kettle, Sans Arc, Chiricahua, Kiowa, Mescalero, Navajo, Nez Perce, Potawatomi, Shawnee, Pawnee, Chickahominy, Flathead, Santee, Assiniboin, Oglala, Miniconjou, Osage, Crow, Brule, Hunkpapa, Pima, Zuni, Hopi, Paiute, Creek, Kickapoo, Ojibwa, and Shinnicock Tribes were persecuted and faced genocide.

    I truly feel sorry for the Peoples of the Adirondack, Delaware, Massachuset, Narranganset, Potomac, Illinois, Miami, Alabama, Ottawa, Waco, Wichita, Mohave, Shasta, Yuma, Erie, Huron, Susquehanna, Natchez, Mobile, Yakima, Wallawalla, Muskogee, Spokan, Iowa, Missouri, Omaha, Kansa, Biloxi, Dakota, Hatteras, Klamath, Caddo, Tillamook, Washoe, Cayuga, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, Laguna, Santa Ana, Winnebago, Pecos, Cheyenne, Menominee, Yankton, Apalachee, Chinook, Catawba, Santa Clara, Taos, Arapaho, Blackfoot, Blackfeet, Chippewa, Cree, Mohawk, Tuscarora, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Comanche, Shoshone, Two Kettle, Sans Arc, Chiricahua, Kiowa, Mescalero, Navajo, Nez Perce, Potawatomi, Shawnee, Pawnee, Chickahominy, Flathead, Santee, Assiniboin, Oglala, Miniconjou, Osage, Crow, Brule, Hunkpapa, Pima, Zuni, Hopi, Paiute, Creek, Kickapoo, Ojibwa, and Shinnicock Tribes.

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