Mir 2 91
FortKnox writes: "Just when you thought you heard the end of it, Russian engineers unveiled plans for the Mir2. Fortunately, the Russian government has no plans to put this on the agenda. Why can't we all just build the ISS like good little countries??" Taking the Russian space budget into account, this seems unlikely to occur any time soon. But it's nice to dream...
MIR 2 (Score:1)
Rant. (Score:2)
Why should they? ISS is a white elephant, it only exists at all because the US have some notion that it is preventing russian rocket scientists from going to work for "unwholesome" governments.
Does anyone actually believe the stuff about growing protein crystals?
Putting people in space has always been a prestige or military exercise, ISS started out as part of the star wars project and continued because NASA are quite good at pleading for budgets. Like all NASA projects it costs a hell of a lot more than it needs to. Mir was better value for money, far better.
ISS should be killed, but it won't be. It has no value:
Nearly all the experiments that can be done there can be carried out better by cheap unmanned satellites that can be assembled and launched for a fraction of the cost of a shuttle launch.
ISS has no military value (look up international).
The russians can probably build and orbit a whole station for the cost of an ISS module.
If anyone has a compelling reason why funds should be sunk into this legacy of Regans deluded imagination then I would love to hear it.
Re:so they can get FREE TACOS this time... (Score:2)
That's why (Score:2)
Because AFAIK the US has the final command authority over the station, which is ok, since they're also investing the most money, but makes it (a) difficult for the others to perform military research there and is (b) an image problem for a country which used to be ahead in the space race for a long time and is the only one with long-time experiance in operating a space station.
Taking the Russian space budget into account, this seems unlikely to occur any time soon. But it's nice to dream...
The Russian economy is currently doing much better then in the Yeltsin era (they even had a surplus on last years budget - something that many wealthy nations can still only dream of), so this is really just a matter of political will. Considering the current US missle defense plans, it's not too unlikely that this will change in the near future.
Re:486? (Score:1)
I hear the clue phone ringing, you better go answer it...
from the empire-strikes-back dept. (Score:2)
hereditary ruling position ^_^
Re:No pictures! - Found one!! (Score:2)
Success! I just ran across the same article on MSNBC [msnbc.com]. However, this copy has a picture of Leonid Gorshkov with a projection of Mir 2 in the background.
In the picture, you see some elements that look like they are right out of Mir (1) and the Russian ISS modules. The biggest difference is a large truss holding the solar arrays which bears a strong resemblence to the truss which will be installed on ISS starting next year.
One thing on this truss that is not present on Mir or ISS is a couple of large dish antennas. I remember something like this being proposed for the old Freedom design (or one of it's revisions), but nothing like that is planned now. Also, I'm not sure if these are radar or communications.
Anyway, it looks like they could do a lot better by just supporting the ISS efforts. I wonder how much money they spent doing up these plans which could have gone towards construction of the modules they have already promised to ISS.
No pictures! (Score:3)
In our media driven society, I'm amazed that space.com didn't include any pictures of the Mir2 design. Of course, if RSC couldn't afford to make any computer renderings, this might limit the media material available.
Of my other space news sources, Spaceflight Now [spaceflightnow.com] didn't have any information on this and NASA Watch [nasawatch.com] is down this morning. Obviously, the news sources don't put a lot of stake in Mir2 ever getting beyond a few press briefings.
Russia can't even afford to meet it's ISS commitments. Every module of theirs beyond the Service Module (Zvezda) is delayed indefinitely. If Russia doesn't get moving on their Science Power Platform they may never be able to do meaningful science on their side of the station. This could also hamper their commercial asperations such as the Enterprise module.
Russia needs to get off their nationalistic bent and concentrate their efforts on what is there rather than trying to one-up the rest of the world.
Happy 40th Man-in-space anniversary (Score:2)
manned spaceflight. [nytimes.com]
Re:Why have even one? (Score:1)
Re:Happy 40th Man-in-space anniversary (Score:2)
Un cerveza! (Score:2)
It would be much more feasible to launch a larger number of smaller simpler space stations than waste a bunch of resources on a single complex station. It'd cost alot less for individual agencies to just launch their own modules with their own experiments on board. Collabaration is fine and ought to be encouraged (SI measurements, standardized parts and tools, similar computer systems). Deciding policy by committee is retarded and wastes far too much time. Its unfortunate everyone's been suckering into the political sham that calls itself the ISS.
Everyone spies (Score:1)
Re:You're laughing now... (Score:1)
Russia's biggest problem is not lack of money. It's corruption, crime and black markets. Those are very hard to fight.
Re:Answers to a Rant (Score:1)
Uh-oh, a shuttle!
FYI, Soviets/Russians used their Mir and Saliut space stations since 1980s for long-term space habitation and have quite a few men who spent 200-300-400 days in orbit.
Re:Spy satelites (Score:1)
That doesn't make sense. Satellites are much cheaper and always available.
Re:You're laughing now... (Score:2)
If this works, watch out for "DisneySpaceBase" though....
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
No more international news, please (Score:1)
Slashdot and its mob isn't ready for the world. Stick to stories from Dunkwater, Alabama.
Why have even one? (Score:2)
There's no reason to have the ISS, much less an improved but still mostly useless copy
Firstly, one thing mentioned in the article is orbital inclination. There are things you can only do from certain orbital inclinations and heights, like observe parts of the earth
We have unmanned satellites for that. They've been doing the job just fine for years. A space station can't do a lot of that: too much vibration from the humans for the big scopes.
launch and retrieve probes and satellites
You're joking, right? The shuttle is bad enough: a virtually non-manuverable space station would be just dreadful at capture, and to launch you need to get into orbit in the first place. Since that's where all the cost is anyway, what possible benefit does a manned station have?
examine solar particles. There may also be experiments which can be performed using 2 stations, for example using interferometry.
That's what satellites do, and have been doing for years.
There's only one experiment that space stations are remotely good at: learning about long term human adaptation to space. They're useless for anything else, save perhaps as a tourist stop for billionaires. (Yes, I'd like to go, but lets be serious: I'll never have that kind of dough.) Microgravity experiments on Mir were pointless: the US tried sending an isolation mount up with one of the science modules since Mir vibrated so badly.
If the Russians were smart they'd pile the cash into cheap launch vehicles, SSTO if possible. Until the cost of Earth -> orbit flight comes way, way down the ISS and its cousins are just ways to keep astronauts employed.
Hmmmmmmm.... (Score:1)
Y_Y
so they can get FREE TACOS this time... (Score:1)
And of course, next time they will be precise about where they crash it so that everyone gets FREE TACOS....
Re:Happy 40th Man-in-space anniversary (Score:1)
Re:486? (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
For instance, if whoever's in charge of a silo right now pulls a Jack Ripper and chooses to launch on his own, and has the know-how to do so, there's not much that can be done right now once the birds are in the air. Oops. But the system as proposed wouldn't stop, say, more than a miniscule fraction of the Russian arsenal if they chose to do a massive first-strike.
For a sub launch, you probably need frequent ASW patrols, plus theatre missile defense.
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
They are now a bit more common; the Russian arsenal probably is not as well maintained as it was at the height of their funding; and many countries don't bind themselves nearly as closely to a superpower and wouldn't require their consent.
In addition, some of the smaller nations and power groups may care less about possible retalliation; for instance, it would probably suit bin Laden's personal jihad to procure a nuclear device by any means possible for use against either Russia or the United States, even if the response means martydom. Pres. Hussein of Iraq seems to be another who verges on recklessness; trying to assassinate an ex-POTUS is a dangerous form of brinksmanship he's already played. Were he to procure an ICBM by, say, bribery, the results could be interesting indeed.
Why have more than 1 space station. (Score:4)
I don't know what this guy has against Russia, but I can think of a few reasons why having more than 1 space station would be good.
Firstly, one thing mentioned in the article is orbital inclination. There are things you can only do from certain orbital inclinations and heights, like observe parts of the earth and other celestial bodies, launch and retrieve probes and satellites and examine solar particles. So 2 satellites can do things that 1 can't.
There may also be experiments which can be performed using 2 stations, for example using interferometry.
It will also be good for advancing space technology, especially if one of the countries with the most experience in space launches another station. The fact is Russia will not be able to do all it wants to with the ISS because it is only a partner. I'm sure MIR2 would also be much cheaper than the ISS, more people would be able to perform experiments on it.
Russia is also far more open and cooperative these days, so all space agencies would learn a lot. If we are ever going to send people to mars or for long missions elsewhere we are going to need to know a lot more than we do now.
Finally, I can't be the only person who wants more money to be spent on space exploration. The governments of the world seem to be adept at rationalising funding for the military, spying on other countries and harsher law enforcement but when it comes to advancing the human race they decide it has to be economically viable.
It's 2001, weren't we supposed to have acheived much more by now? Our industrial production and economy is supposed to be a geometric progression, where are all the things we should be able to acheive with all our wealth?
Competition is good (Score:1)
Taking their experience into account, it would be a waste to not plan another space station.
... to celebrate the anniversary? (Score:3)
Well I am sure the timing of this publicity has something to do with the auspicious date - 40th anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's [friends-partners.org] flight into space.
Celebrate Yuri's Night [yurisnight.net] near you!
Still AF? (Score:1)
Re:MIR2 has been around for a while... (Score:1)
What's wrong with that? Things that worked well should stay. Things that broke too often should be improved. You do not need to improve something that already works.
It's unfortunate the Russians can't get behind the ISS from a national pride point of view.
International relationships are much cooler now than they were when ISS project just began. Russia saw [very politicized] Kosovo war, now USA sends 50 russian diplomats out... this is not an atmosphere of cooperation. So ISS became a political liability.
There is also a fierce opposition of NASA to any commercial projects on ISS (including Tito). I do not know NASA internal politics, but apparently they are unfit to "innovate" in this aspect. I personally think that if someone rich wants to pay for a trip (and therefore finance many other scientific experiments) - good! Send them all up, Russia can use the money and space is big enough for everyone. But NASA puts brakes on that! A national space station would be free of those parsecs of red tape: pay today - liftoff tomorrow.
Of course, that's probably against human nature.
No, it's against interests of some humans. Hint: only very few of them work for space program, and at least one of them can't explain what "space" is even if his life depends on correct answer :-)
Re:so they can get FREE TACOS this time... (Score:2)
Countries may have different use for orbital stations. Countries may want not to share some research. There are many very valid reasons to build a national space station, including spy and other military use (with no weapons).
As mentioned above, ISS is indeed overdesigned and too expensive. This is because of much stricter standards that were applied, as if spaceflight can ever be as safe as a walk in a park. Russia indeed can build a space station for a price of one module. They already have a spare FGB module that they want to launch and link with ISS.
And what's wrong with "group of engineers floating ideas"? That's what engineers do. What else a designer of spaceships should do? Twiddle thumbs? Send a resume to Saddam?
With regard to lack of money, people often mistake poor citizens for poor state. USA is full of homeless people, but that does not make USA as a state poor. In Russia salaries are low but the state firmly controls oil, gas and other exports. In 1980 an average salary was about 150 rubles, or from $10 to $200 depending on how you convert. This had no effect on space program!
Said that, Mir-2 can become a reality if Duma and President approve. There is some small but visible support of such idea. The infrastructure is already there, rockets, factories and people. This is a lot - most countries on the planet would have no clue even where to start, not mentioning that only Russia and USA have sufficient launch capabilities. This project would not be overly expensive.
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Er, is there an empire here somewhere?
Britian is still a larger empire than is the US, it's still a bigger empire that the US ever was.
Do you think America will still be so powerfull that they can afford to ignore everyone else.
There should have been a question mark there, but that's just a pedant. The US does not ignore everyone else. I don't listen to the commercial media news, but on NPR, at least half of the news is international.
As for the EU, what sort of power are they, exactly? Basically all they've managed to do is devalue a currency. Perhaps they could become a military power, because they are utterly failing to be a unified economic power. Somehow, I doubt that they'll manage that though. It will be cool to see what becomes of the EU in about 40-50 years, but they're not that interesting for the forseeable future.
And that's not even mentioning India,
They might be an economic threat if they ever get their population under control, pull some infastructure out of their asses, and the US stops handing out H1-B visas.
Bush is Nero, fiddling whilst the empire crumbles.
Ok, I guess Bush and Nero would be similar in that they are both idiotic morons, but what does Nero have to do with something that happened many many years after his death?
If one tried hard enough, one could trace the beginnings of the decline of Rome to the loss of the legion in Germany during Nero's reign, but he did not reign over the fall of Rome.
Re:You're laughing now... (Score:1)
It would benefit them in their economy and sense of national pride etc. Additionally it is probably much cheaper to build Mir2 than try to keep up with ISS and all of its 'training' and 'beaurocratic' requirements.
Taco Bell? (Score:1)
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page [cavalrypilot.com]
Remember "First Contact"? (Score:1)
Why spend shitload of money for something if you can spend two times more money?
In the reality, you'll spend just 20-30% more money to get two copies!
One thing that MIR-2 can do is to engage some of the economics of scale in the Russian space program. A lot of things can be made interchangeable with the Russian modules of the ISS thus making them less expensive. The reason for this is that the tools to produce something that complex and precise comprises the lion's share of the overall costs (try remembering how much a fab for making processors costs versus the cost of one processor).
So, making the second replica after the tooling is built bears marginal costs.
Great idea (Score:2)
Hacker: A criminal who breaks into computer systems
Re:Woah (Score:1)
Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Re:Identity Crisis (Score:1)
Remember, there is a point where you get so powerful, you don't need that many friends. Europe will still go along with just about anything the US says. They may complain, certainly, but they never refuse to cooperate.
Re:Spy satelites (Score:1)
P-A-R-A-N-O-I-A
Thoughts on Mir (Score:1)
Re:Answers to a Rant (Score:1)
Not gonna happen... (Score:1)
Russia, stop holding out, or get off ISS?
NASA and our government should have never relied on them for outside support.
Re:Not gonna happen... (Score:1)
Spy satelites (Score:2)
With the cultural dominance of the US, and NASA inspecting every last component that other countries wish to add to the ISS, they don't have a hope of putting the sophisticated radio scanning, optical recognition and audio amplification equipment that they would like to add to it. Therefore they have to consider building their own.
Re:Everyone spies (Score:1)
Re:Spy satelites (Score:2)
--
Permanancy (Score:1)
This would be great! (Score:1)
The following PREVIEW is rated FP-13 by CmdrTaco. (Score:2)
Comes the least anticipated sequel of all time...
If you thought "Mission to Mars" actually held your attention for its first half hour...
If you survived "Titanic" without a dry tear or a noose...
If a 51.6-degree inclination captivated your emotions until its despairing plummit towards Mother Earth...
Prepare to Experience the Awesome Power of Over 51.6 Degrees of Inclination
Witness Its Power Increase After Guest Cameo Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor comes along.
From Russia With Love Comes:
MIR 2: THE UNWANTED JOURNEY
A Mikhail Synelshchikov Production
Rated FP-13, parental guidance suggested
Coming Soon to a JonKatz review near you.
Practice makes perfect (Score:1)
Nothing wrong with engineers and designs fooling around with stuff. That is where many great ideas came from. With CAD and modern computing powers (dare I say Beowulf clusters ;-), they could even create a virtual space station. For scientific researches or fun... imagine SimMir!!
Beside it wouldn't hurt to have a little bit of competition. Perhaps a new (friendly) space race to land men AND women on the Red Planet between the US and China?
Also the article is extremely light on details. I suspect that if not for the recent deorbit of Mir, it wouldn't be considered news at all. Kind of sad really.
====
Re:Great idea (Score:1)
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
Its alot easier to fly a suicide bomber in from the east coast to the west coast and blow the plane up in mid air. This explosion can then spred a bio/chem wepon all over america. center -> the rest. Also more then one of these in stragic places wouldnt be hard. Or they could just infect people with a disease and let them free.
Missilles are over rated, just for show.
Also Mir2 Would probley not be a listening post for Russia, but it would server for quite a crash...
Fight censors!
Re:Cant wait for the crash. (Score:1)
Arathres
I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!
Cant wait for the crash. (Score:2)
Arathres
I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!
Re:Woah (Score:1)
It has a light side, and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
Re:Cant wait for the crash. (Score:1)
Answers to a Rant (Score:2)
2) A mission to Mars powered by a plasma drive is planned to launch in 2023. The ship must refuel in space. If the ISS is still up then, it'll be used for refuelling.
3) It'll be the launching pad for other unmanned missions, eliminating some cost of building special purpose rockets for getting things out of orbit.
4) For any further exploration to occur, we must study the very long-term affects of near-zero gravity on humans. That means having something intended to remain in space longer than a shuttle.
I'm not saying the ISS is the best answer to these problems, but it's what NASA and others have chosen to go with. There are also corporations working on many independant projects that would otherwise have to be done on the ISS. So don't think NASA's the only set of Americans working on space projects.
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Re:You're laughing now... (Score:1)
Woah (Score:2)
Re:A nice idea, but not going to happen (Score:1)
I think we are both arguing on the extreme polar ends as though this were a black and white true/false test, when in fact this issue is a grey multivalent issue. I am arguing against having only one option, you are arguing against infinite options. Neither stance is wholly accurate or supportable.
Right now only there is only one nation that has the means and drive to maintain an independant space program. I would like to see more competition than that, with at least one more nation, if not several, involved in a hopefully friendly space race.
Using an anology similar to yours, what if there was only one OS anyone could use? I want more options than that.
A nice idea, but not going to happen (Score:3)
Any competition is good competition when it comes to space. The Russian government currently cannot afford to actually implement the idea, but it's a noble thought. Right now there is no space race, and thus no great urge to push the envelope on what is possible. We need to feel pressured to exceed the limits of this small world we live on and reach out.
The Russians do have a great deal of practical experience and know how when it comes to space stations. The ISS benefits greatly by their participation. Unfortunately for using them to foster a sense of competition, the official russian economy is in no shape to split it's finite space resources between the ISS and any space station of their own.
Few nations have the economies and the drive necessary for a successful self-funded space program, and Russia is sadly not currently one of them. About the only nation besides the United States of America that has the resources and is at least tentatively willing to spend them is the People's Republic of China. The People's Republic of China simply has the problem of being ten to twenty years behind the United States of America in terms of space technology. Even with this gap, the People's Republic of China is our current best hope for an independant competative space program.
The more nations that have agressive space programs the better. Although let's drop this orbiting space station farce and use an existing satellite that has raw materials to build with, the moon.
MIR2 has been around for a while... (Score:3)
It's unfortunate the Russians can't get behind the ISS from a national pride point of view. I get the warm fuzzies when I think that this thing might actually work out... the next mission, going up April 19th, has Americans, a Russian, a Canadian, and an Italian going up... if this keeps up, maybe we'll finally be able to get rid of these stupid tribal sensibilities that have kept people at war for thousands of years...
Of course, that's probably against human nature. Oh well...
--
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Re:Rant. (Score:1)
Not all experiments planned for ISS can be performed in unmanned sattelites, because human judgement is necessary to make these crystals grow properly. Making protein crystals is *extremely* difficult. Unfortunately it is also very important to do, as it is pretty much the only way to figure out how proteins work. Protein function (proteomics) will be *the* hot topic in the next 10 years now that genomics (DNA sequencing) is pretty much finished
However, on the other side we should not forget that gravity on Mir2 or ISS is not zero. Because the astronauts move around in it, the ship slightly moves around in the opposite direction. This 'action = reaction' is very small because of the weight of the ship, but it might just be enough to disturb the protein crystal formation.
So; is it usefull to have a manned spaceship (we can make those crystals). But because there are some downsides to these ships, my opinion is we definitely do not need two. Let the russians (and all other countries with them) work on unmanned spacecraft, so we can have the best of both worlds
Re: (Score:3)
Informative comment:
Russians have been building this design for a long time. They just dont have the money to launch it.
More design info here. [rocketry.com]
Site of the space station builders : [energialtd.com]
Insightful comment:
Russia had a very successfull space program, and has always been a step ahead of America. It has always amazed me that a land of communists, dictators and gulags could produce such enterprising science programmes.
Troll :
GOTO [Insightful Comment].
Moronic Comment:
Can u imagine a fscking Beowulf cluster of fscking Mir2 space stations ?
Flamebait :
Those Russian bfstards cant launch off a paper rocket any more, unless the US gives them a dime.
Funny Comment:
But does it run Linux?
Re:You're laughing now... (Score:1)
Go visit St. Petersburg for example, you will see more beggars than anywhere else in the world, men with loudspeakers preaching how good the life was in Joseph Stalin's time etc. And this is one of the richest cities in Russia. When you go to the country you would find it unbelievable that such life can exist in 21st century.
I agree that societies have come over hard times before but they have had something to create new stuff on. But in this case:
- The demographic situation is catastrophic. Russian population is dropping very fast, the drop rate is one of the highest in the world. Millions of Chinese are illegally pouring into emptied Russian towns in South-East right now.
- Everybody is jumping the ship. Do you know how many of the graduates of Russian elite universities are going abroad (and most of them never return)? 60%. Enough said.
Re:You're laughing now... (Score:1)
The important difference is that in all these times birth rates were more than 2 children per woman. Now it's way below. Demographical reasons have taken down nations before and they certainly are doing it now. Also, there wasn't a place to leave for, people were pretty much forced to stay and build up the society again.
I just love this cold-war-style "we are the best system" approach. I was educated in Ukraine. I've been working in the U.S. for 3 years now. Do I plan to return?
My friend, I am also from the former Soviet Union, I know what it's like :-) And I totally share your reasons. I am from Estonia and I will go back. And most of my fellow Estonians here will go back. But most of the Russians I know here are NOT going back.
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
I wouldn't put my worst enemy on a Chinese nuclear submarine. The crew may be able to get as far as you say, and mayb e able to launch, but they won't survive much beyond that, radiation poisoning being what it is.
Besides, the missile shield isn't intended for countries that are capable of that.
Re:486? (Score:1)
Why should we build a space station? (Score:1)
sigh
You mean other than to explore the affects of long-term exposure to the space environment on the human body, and as a platform for launching more complicated missions beyond lunar orbit?
When President Kennedy made that famous moon speech, there was no way short of a time machine he'd be able to say:
So there's your precious monetary return right there. Stuff we don't even know we need yet. There are just some things we won't invent until we actually "need" them, as opposed to "want" them.But that's besides the point. Kennedy didn't try to present the whole thing as a sales pitch, nor did he even take the "So we can develop rocket technology to better protect ourselves from the Soviets" approach No, he took the Sir Hillary approach of "Because it's FUCKING THERE!"
There shouldn't need to be any other reason to do this beyond "because we haven't done it yet." I'm sorry, but there are just some things out there that we shouldn't let the accountants figure out for us. It is important for us as a nation and as a species to figure out how to better live and operate in space, and no number of robotic probes will ever be a substitute for a human body and a human mind in microgravity. It is important because, if for no other reason, it's the next step in our development as a species.
If we are unable to maintain a presence in space, if the Chinese show the rest of the world how space stations, lunar landings, and Mars explorations are done, then the US (and any other non-communist government) might as well give up as a nation and as a social experiment. If they are able to demonstrate that an oppressive, single-minded government is able to start out as a distant third and become the leading space-faring nation, thus able to ensure the continuation of its way of life (and life itself), then what good is our open and capitalistic society? We'll be able to watch it all with our precious internet?
If the next multi-gigaton asteroid or comet comes along and we haven't developed interplanetary space flight yet because "it's just not profitable" or because "there's no instant gratification," then we deserve to die off like the dinosaurs we are and let the cockroaches have a go at it.
---
I realize I didn't do anything but promote your "prestige" argument, but there are just times when there are other things that are more valuable and have more meaning than the Almighty Buck (TM). If money should be first and foremost in the minds of those people who are about to try something new, then imagine how much less creativity and advancement there would be in the world. Microsoft wouldn't have to worry about Linux, for one...
OK, I'm done. For now.
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
Re:Good little countries?? From an American? (Score:1)
The problem arises when governments that really don't give a damn get "The Bomb." We'll use Iraq as the perpetual example. First, any reasonable despot (if there is such a thing) should have realized that even the US alone would pretty much lay waste to his mility and his country. However, Hussien was more than willing to go to war with a UN coalition including most of the world powers, so long as he's safe and sound in his little underground bunker.
The sanctions against Iraq are all over the news, but they would have worked if Hussien actually cared about his population more than his own hold on power.
As long as he (and governments like him) can guarantee his own survival, I really don't see how MAD would work on someone with that kind of outlook.
If relying on the ability to destroy Baghdad/Pyongyang/whatever isn't enough to ensure the safety of our population, then we're forced to take steps that take away their ability to nuke New York/Los Angeles/whatever.
On the one hand... (Score:1)
On the other, the ISS is better than no space station at all.
Regardless of the question of how much better the money-budget could be spent, I doubt there is room in the intelligence-budget of the highest levels of management to recognize a better project.
On the propeller, this is probably a good way to occupy all those bright engineers and scientists who would be very productive if not lured and trapped into just such a bureaucratic mess. It will delay the colonization of space, and political upset to follow. Remember that space colonization means the end of MAD: large-scale war would no longer be a near-guarantee of human extinction and the end of civilization. Avoiding nuclear war sounds awfully tempting to me, though I feel that we should leave the cradle regardless.
--
Unfazed... (Score:2)
When questioned, higher officials were cautiously optimistic, but expressed some doubt that a sufficiently large catapult could be ice-sculpted.
--
You're laughing now... (Score:5)
To paraphrase R.A. Heinlein, they're broke on paper, but they have real wealth, and the latter can always fix the former.
Don't be surprised if this thing goes up in a couple of years.
--
Milk it for what it's worth! (Score:1)
Re:Woah (Score:1)
Alternatives (Score:1)
Merd
Mork
Meept
Horace
Re:Unfazed... (Score:1)
Oh, and Klerk, no "lever" jokes please.
Re:Spy satelites (Score:1)
Re:... to celebrate the anniversary? (Score:1)
On this date in 1961, Yuri Gagarin's flight.
On this date in 1981, first flight of the Space Shuttle.
In twenty years we went from a one man capsule to the space shuttle. In the next twenty we went from the space shuttle to...the space shuttle.
NASA isn't a space agency, it's a jobs program. Bring back the Delta Clipper [nasa.gov].
Re:Taco Bell? (Score:1)
Chinese & Mir2?? (Score:1)
486? (Score:1)
http://www.phatmax.net [phatmax.net]
the pr0n-o-matic