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Science

Monkey Heads Transplanted At Last 28

Posted by michael from the i-need-a-brain-for-my-mathter dept.
elcosmico sends news that monkey brains are being transplanted. Well, sort of. We post some weird stuff in the science section, don't we?
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Monkey Heads Transplanted At Last More

Monkey Heads Transplanted At Last

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  • So what (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    So what, my boss had his head and his ass cross-transplanted about 3 days after he hired me.
  • The stupidity of the "scientists" (who really deserve to lose any and all degrees, as a result), the stupidity of whoever stumped up the cash for this "research", or the lunacy of putting this on Slashdot.

    What these guys have basically discovered is that glue sticks things together, really really well. Something most of the rest of us knew by the age of 5. (Though usually regretting it, afterwards. :)

    Being able to stick two blood vessels together is so much a non-achievement that only Jeremy Beadle could compete.

    Now, if these guys had managed to reconnect the entire nervous system (in the RIGHT order!), they would have achieved something that could credibly be called science.

    IMHO, Universities should prohibit staff to play with paper and paste until they've got some serious work done.

  • Reminds me more of the Monty Python sketch "Elephantoplasty [montypython.net]"...
  • Or that crazy German guy who embalms corpses in order to sculpt them (saw it on the Learning Channel).

    Probably you refer to plastination [plastination.com], with a travelling exhibition [koerperwelten.de]. I have personally only seen it on TV yet. They don't just make it a medical exhibition but turn it into art.

  • I think it's kind of reminiscent of (escape from LA?) where the hollywood plastic/transplant surgeon would remove live people's organs and other body parts for transplant to a wealthy paying customer. Why settle for big fake boobs when you can have the real thing(s)?

    Somehow I don't think we will ultimately be satisfied until we can slice, dice, improve, remove and recycle every piece of our bodies. Like the video game advertising article (basically) said: people just take for granted that things get worse as marketers and producers find new ways to make a buck. We just take it in stride.

    For how much money will you sell your extra kidney? Left arm? Spleen?

  • Outside (Score:3)

    by pubudu ( 67714 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @01:57PM (#309448)
    I'm afraid that I have to agree with the criticism of the procedure cited in the article. It seems that this guy's found a way to create the heads-in-jars found on Futurama, except without the ability to control giant robots.

    The whole procedure actually reminds me a bit of the plot of David Bowie's Outside CD, where some crazy futuristic people perform bizarre medical operations as forms of artistic expression. Or that crazy German guy who embalms corpses in order to sculpt them (saw it on the Learning Channel).

  • Post after post of "finally..." makes me believe that some of the posters here already have monkey head transplants. It's obvious that the transplant was rejected. They were just using the host body as a blood pump until the brain went into shock. Big deal. You all probably think Dolly was a true clone, too. Chances are the technology will not be there to make you immortal, geekboy. Make friends with death. It is always just over your left shoulder.
  • Interesting point. Many IRBs would frown on just randomly beheading a perfectly well monkey. I wonder if they used one that had been "spoiled" by neuroscience training, or if they just have a weak IRB?
  • 1) The article says "and the animal survived for some time after the operation". "Some time" implies to me that it lasted about a week, maybe two, with major intensive care.

    2) As the article points out, what they've really got is a head connected to the main neck vessels. All nervous system connections are kaput. What this means is that the brainstem (which has all the centers that regulate your vital organs) does not have a connection to such vital things as the phrenic nerve (which moves the diaphragm up and down). I doubt that this poor beast was able to breathe on its own. Also disconnected would be the vagus nerves, which go to pretty much every vital organ in some way. There's a classic quote in my anatomy textbook: "bilateral destruction of the vagus nerves is sooner or later incompatible with life". Being completely unable to regulate your body means you're basically fucked the next time something goes wrong. Your body could have any number of fatal diseases and you wouldn't feel a damn thing until it started affecting the brain (at which point you're usually terminal anyway).

    Could you use this to be immortal? Sure, if you could solve the whole rejection problem and you don't mind having all the joyful life experience of the classical head-in-a-jar. I feel sorry for the monkey. The experiment proves basically nothing, isn't a technique which any rational surgeon or patient would accept as therapeutic, and pretty much just managed to cost a lot of money and cause a poor animal plenty of pain. I'm agreeing with the second gent they quoted --- nerve regeneration looks a lot better.

  • Thank God! I was starting to get tired of waiting....
  • He added: "I cannot see any medical grounds for doing this. I cannot see that scientifically you would actually be able to regenerate the nerves which could produce that sort of control.

    Isn't this where stemcells would come into play?
  • But what about UPGRADES. Forget about plastic surgery. We could just clone the perfect body for you to your specifications and it will look completely natural. And when the Updated eyes or biceps come out you have a BCI (body control interface) connector built in to accept it.
  • So, if this was your girlfriend, I guess you could finally figure out whether it's her body or her brains that you go for.

  • I'm just not sure... (Score:3)

    by bcrowell ( 177657 ) on Friday April 06, 2001 @02:51PM (#309456) Homepage
    ...what area of my body I'd want the monkey head transplanted onto.
    The Assayer [theassayer.org] - free-information book reviews
  • Grow your own clone, preferably without the brain...

    You'd be surprised how easy that is with some people.

    Seriously, though, it'd be pretty damn hard to keep the spare body alive long enough to be useful. Ends up running into the same technological impossibilities as the plot of 6th Day (God-awful movie - I'm still kinda pissed at my roommate for suckering me into watching it. That time could have been much better spent playing CS.)

  • If you had a million or so, how long do you think it'd take them to write Hamlet?

  • but i still can't eat them!
  • This really doesn't seem practical. To make it practical, doctors need to be able to regenerate nervous tissue for the brain stem, but once they have that capability, that solves the majority need for the "body transplant".
  • Nor do I see this as "wrong", as it's just an experiment.

    It's wrong if he performs the experiment repeatedly (look, we did it again!) The only possible outcome of this experiment is the inevitable death of both animals. It's worth doing once or twice, but without the ability to reattach the spine, repeating it is pretty much just a form of torture.

  • Wouldn't you want to know how being in another body is. Another point is, who said science was ethical, science was made for the betterment of mankind, not to be ethical.


    -----
  • because i laughed pretty hard at this article. Although an incredible waste of animal life, the sheer stupidity and audacity of the researchers made me laugh and laugh. It's like a Monty Python skit, except it is real. I can hear John Cleese proclaiming that the severed head of the monkey is merely resting its eyes at the moment, but that soon it will start climbing trees!
  • I mean, that's gotta hurt! Did anyone ask the monkey if it was happy with it's new body, or was it in too much agony so they had to drug it?

    A while ago some nut (same guy?) offered to do this for Christopher Reave (sp?), but since he'd be just as paralized in the "new" body, Chris declined the offer.

  • Combine this technology with cloning, and you have the potential for immortality!

    Grow your own clone, preferably without the brain, and replace your brain into it when the old body is all worn out. Repeat as nessesary.

    Sure, you have some problems to overcome. The brain will still age, after all. And there is that nerve regeneration problem to be worked out... but hey, this could be the first day of the rest of your extremely extended life!
  • That this is not new! A monkey brain transplant was conducted back in the 70's or 80's. But afterwards, no follow up research was done because of the "moral" implications. I saw footage from the opperation on The Learning Channel like two years ago!

    What I'd like to know is why there is no mention of this previous opperation, and everyone is acting like this is a first? Maybe it's been done better, more efficently, or lasted longer ect... but it's not original!

    However, I remember when I first saw this, I was disappointed that the research ended at that time. I'm not for cruelty to animals, but I am all for scientific progression... and the goal of a brain transplant has too many potential benefits (it's the only major organ that won't be rejected in another body) for it NOT to be fully explored.

    Sometimes we block ourselves off from potentially beneficial avenues of discovery in the name of "morality" and "ethics", such as Stem-cell research or cloning, but often times that same morality or ethics are misguided, or misinformed, and through the ignorance of the masses we have a situation where our best and brightest are told not to "go there", not because of any rational reason, but because it make the public feel "icky" (for lack of a better word).
  • Since the actual transplant requires a complacent enough body, this doesn't seem to have any practical application under most circumstances. How does one stumble upon the body... isn't rejuvination an issue?? that is, in my opinion, why this stuff will be considered science fiction.

    OTOH, I don't think this is the most credible source: "The arguments against head and brain transplants were outlined by Dr Stephen Rose, director of brain and behavioural research at the Open University." This sounds like a euphemism for head-shrink leader. I wouldn't expect a very open minded response regarding what is essentially an "evil" can of worms being opened from anyone other then the most liberal minded of scientists. Nor do I see this as "wrong", as it's just an experiment.
  • That this is not new! A monkey brain transplant was conducted back in the 70's or 80's. But afterwards, no follow up research was done because of the "moral" implications. I saw footage from the opperation on The Learning Channel like two years ago!

    This guy's right! I saw that too!

    Furthermore the brain stayed alive for more then just a little while after the original operation and in point of fact Rush Limbaugh is still alive and well today.

  • "At each stage - kidney, heart, liver and so forth - ethical considerations have been considered, especially with the heart, which was a major, major problem for many people and scientists.

    "And the brain, because of its uniqueness poses a major, major ethical issue as far as the public and even the profession is concerned."

    Fortunately it was major, major fun, so we did it anyway. My whole research staff was major, major impressed. Lots of other people were ultra, ultra pissed off but they were totally major, major animal rights people. So we totally, totally didn't give a rat's ass.

    --

  • >>The experiment proves basically nothing, isn't a technique which any rational surgeon or patient would accept as therapeutic, and pretty much just managed to cost a lot of money and cause a poor animal plenty of pain. I'm agreeing with the second gent they quoted --- nerve regeneration looks a lot better. Since the head was transplanted onto another body, there were probably two monkey lives ended in the expirement. Seems useless.

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