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Cleaning Up In High Level Radiation with Microbes 66
geomon writes "Research conducted by the US Department of Energy's (DOE) Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) is featured on the DOE's Office of Science web site. PNNL's work with the Deinococcus radiodurans microbe is featured on the Office of Scienceweb site in the article Radiation Resistant 'Superbug' May Be Used in Cleanup of Radioactive Contaminants." I've read about this before - this article does a good job of bringing the latest advances together.
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
Kill uncle Ben (Score:1)
Otherwise you have yet another TV attraction.
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The atom ant (Score:1)
Interesting thought. Biological reactors as nuclear reactors. Has this ever been explored in SF?
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Previous /. discussion (Score:1)
Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity
Evolution! (Score:1)
We'll unleash these microbes on irradiate sites, and evolutionary action will occur. Not only will they process the radioactive elements into a stable reduced form, the ones that actually manage to figure out how to tap the radiation as an energy source will get reproductive advantages!
So within a few million cycles we'll get bacteria that *thrive* on radioactivity. If that happens, and they manage to contaminate radioactive power plants, who knows what happens?
Anyway, these radiaoctive materials are stored away from oxygen at least, as the article was talking about the anaerobic action of the bacteria.
-AS
Re:Bacteria are the future for pollution treatment (Score:1)
The more dangerous problem is... what's to stop them from eating non-trash? Living in your gas tank? Sitting on your car? Eating through the plastic shell of your iMac? Growing in your tailpipe?
Then they become a nuisance!
-AS
Yeah, and then... (Score:1)
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Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
Clean up? (Score:1)
^.
( @ )
Soylent Foods, Inc.
Re:Other Microbes... (Score:1)
Unfortunately, you can't simply "digest" radioactivity.
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Re:Bacteria are the future for pollution treatment (Score:1)
Re:Nuclear Cleanup (Score:1)
The deinos don't help to degrade radioactive waste faster, they only help immobilize it somewhat or potentially concentrate it. This is only useful in the case of environmental spills and dilute radioactive solutions that need to be concentrated. The thing is, spills that need to be sequestered and large volumes of dilute radioactive solutions should not be a normal part of the operation of a nuclear power plant.
Avoiding spills and leaking tanks that need to be cleaned out (=dilute radioactive solutions)will go a lot further towards making nuclear waste a viable option than even the most wonderful of superbugs.
How to clean up a spill with these (Score:1)
1. Hanford has a spill. (At the Hanford Bar & Grill, with Radioactive Leaks, and Nuclear Spills! (sung to a cheesy diner tune)) (Dig through the 'Almost Live' old episodes - its hilarious!)
2. Seed the ground near the site with these beasties so that the spill doesn't make it into, say, the Columbia river.
3. After the bugs have solidified / precipitated out all the U / Pu / Th / Etc (that must be element 115!) you collect all the soil, extract the radioactive substances (if you can) and bury them in a deep dark unused coal mine where they won't escape until they are no longer radioactive.
Cyano
Re:Now nuking's ok i guess (Score:1)
The Hanford Site hosts 177 underground high-level radioactive storage tanks with approximately 53 million gallons of radioactive waste containing 190 million curies of radioactivity [hanford.gov].
I guess it is easy to be glib when you are unaffected by this level of contamination. Unlike yourself, however, I live 23 km from these high-level tank farms.
Now nuking's ok i guess (Score:1)
Yet another example of solving the effects of a problem, not the problem itself.
Nuclear Cleanup (Score:1)
One of the main issues has always been the waste and treatment of that waste that the nuclear power generators create. With widespread vitrification for "safe" long term storage on the horizon and the possibility of microorganisms that can aid in the breakdown of waste quicker, what's stoping us? Firing up a half dozen Fission reactors around the West could certainly quelch the energy problems California and Washington are facing right now.
Of course, these bugs need to beef up a bit, first.
--Also PNNL is just across the street, so it's kinda rooting for the local guys.
Mutation Factors? (Score:1)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
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Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
Does this mean I can post stories?
TWAJS
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Re:Isn't Uranium an element? (Score:1)
Sure you can destroy and create elements, shoot a couple of neutrons into uranium and eventually it will split into two lighter ones. Also, uranium and other yummy stuff is made all the time in stars.
I guess is that you're thinking about energy which really cant be created or destroyed, but that is another story completely.
Re:Radioactive things STAY radioactive... (Score:1)
So the idea is to immobilize the contaminants? I'm guessing 'reduce' doesn't mean what I would normally expect in this context. These bugs aren't going to metabolize the radioactive waste and make it dissapear or render it inert. There must be some benefit in having them 'eat' the stuff though. So when they excrete their waste, it isn't going to continue to spread into groundwater, or something. You still have to clean it up eventually, this just keeps it from getting away?
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Other Microbes... (Score:1)
Re:Of course, they can't lower the radioactivity.. (Score:1)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
The simple solution would be to stop the superbug from reproducing / splitting / whatever. IANA biologist, so I don't know if this is possible, but it would probably be a solution to your question...
Re:Radioactive things STAY radioactive... (Score:1)
Well, that's the point. No one is saying this makes the radioactivity disappears - it concentrates it in relatively fixed cells so you don't have plumes of plutonium spreading through the soil into groundwater.
The radioactive metals have to be physically taken away from the place at some point. How?
I've heard secondhand accounts of some lab that's trying to breed cleanup microbes that can migrate back to the surface. More realistically, I would guess that the soil has to be dug out.
Re:Scary (Score:1)
*sigh* Another person who didn't read the article.
The microbe is extremely resistant to radiation. It says so in the article, right under the What Makes "Superbug" so Tough? heading.
I am frightened! (Score:1)
Also I am wondering what they will do with the bacterial waste! If I ate glowing radioactive, I would be too and we would be no better off than if I did not eat it! Maybe the bacteria are smart enough to put it in a box? But I do not think we should make smart bacteria because like the proverbial Frankenstein they could turn on us!
Isn't Uranium an element? (Score:1)
Facts (Score:1)
DC-10 (McDonnell-Douglas) : 1000 kg
L-1011 (Lockheed) : 680 kg
B-747 (Boeing) : 850 kg
Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) reported 430 aircrafts overloaded with DU in December 1999. Overall, there are 380 tons of DU flying every day over our heads. As a comparison, 320 tons of DU were scattered in Irak in 1991 by Warthog planes to destroy tanks, DU which is highly suspected of being the origin of the Gulf war and Balkans syndroms. And that's only within 10 years time! Therefore it is very nice if some scientists have found that the Deinococcus radiodurans can tame nuclear waste in some way but since radioactivity will not be removed using these bacterias, the problem is not solved at all! How do scientists plan to use them at a wider scale anyway ? How could they treat radioactive smoke or dust which is worse for the human being because it can be inhaled ?
When such a plane crashes and the fuel burns, temperature reaches more than 1000 Celsius which is far enough to oxydate DU to microparticles of UO2 or UO3, which can be widespread by the wind and are breathable. Knowing that DU half life is 4.5 billions years, it may be useful to know better how to use bacterias to solve this problem. But I believe we are still a long way far from a practical solution to the radioactive waste treatment. So until then, prevention is better than repression.
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
I think you answered your own question here. Deinococcus radiodurans has enzymes which protect the fidelity of its genetic material. That is to say, it is not easily mutated by ionizing radiation and its DNA is not susceptible.
As for organisms feeding on radiodurans. That's a hard call. It depends strongly on how much radioactive material is retained in this bug at any one time. You could get magnification through the food chain this way, but hopefully it will be engineered to avoid this.
Re:they used what? (Score:1)
Re:Great, then what? (Score:1)
1) I think this was addressed before. The products will be something immobile and not water-soluble. This stops the spread of contamination and makes clean-up easier.
2) If it is a well designed bug, it will die out after it runs out of radioactive goo. You can engineer the metabolic pathways so it requires the waste (or some part of the waste) to live. No more food, no more life.
3) See 2. The bugs are limited by the amount of waste present.
4) Again, see 2. The bacteria itself doesn't need to be "picked up" again. You just keep a sample in the lab.
Scary (Score:1)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:1)
Re:Great, then what? (Score:1)
Biohacking (Score:1)
Most of the post have been preching doom from biotech but it is just a matter of that this site is full of geeks that work with eletron flow devices and have no real sense of control over biotech like the kind we have over those electron devices and the result is fear but the the same can be said about a doctor when it comes to his computer and i think that is why i see so many doctors use a mac
Personaly give me GM foods new replacement parts grown in pigs a virus that infects pests and a giant bug that can blow up planets its all hacking no matter what kind of material you are working with
Travis
A Bug's Life (Score:1)
Where in the world is Stacey Sanches [antioffline.com]
comforting (Score:1)
Fine... (Score:1)
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Re:A Bug's Life (Score:1)
Re:A Bug's Life (Score:1)
Re:Isn't Uranium an element? (Score:1)
The actual amount of Uranium can't be reduced. What I think they mean here, is reduction in the chemical sense. In chemistry, a reduction reaction is the opposite of oxidation. Oxidation is the loss of electrons to the other reactants, in a chemical reaction, reduction is the gain of electrons. Oxidation does not necessairly involve oxygen. Check out definition 5a here. [dictionary.com] I'm not sure what they'd gain by doing this, though. Mabye the nasty stuff is easier to clean up this way?
ANEB! (Score:2)
Godzilla vs. Biollante [stomptokyo.com], specifically.
In fact, it was actually *interesting* in that film, with one of the best G-suits ever, imho. Heck, there was even some reflection on the consequences of using such a thing. Similarly, for Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995), considering the aftermath of the Oxygen Destroyer and Serizawa's fears in Godzilla (1954/1955).
For current aspects of the original legend, see the real thing [godzilla.co.jp] in its original home.
"thought you'd like to know"
the chance of mutation (Score:2)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:2)
Of course, mutations are rare. But depending on the life cycle of the bug, it's certainly possible to see a mutation have an undesired affect in a couple thousand generations. Throw in radiation, which is credited as causing gene damage (Hiroshima babies and formation of life theories), and you can certainly have something incredible happen over the course of hundreds of thousands of generations.
Zodiac Anyone? (Score:2)
Re:The Food Chain (Score:2)
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Re:The Food Chain (Score:2)
...ok that's enough of the sarcasm
Re:A Bug's Life (Score:2)
In the event of a nuclear holocaust we would need to develop a widescale heating and food creation system in a very short time, just a guess, but maybe about a year or two.
The dinosaurs didn't survive the cooling of the earth due to atmospheric changes, we might be able to survive it, but with no preperation in advance, I doubt it.
Brian
Re:Bacteria are the future of scifi (long.) (Score:2)
>To
> eat oil, say, thus providing a good >way of getting rid of oil slicks? Or to degrade >plastics previously considered
> nonbiodegradable?
Firstly, the way genetic engineering works, you copy proteins, even whole chemical pathways, from existing organisms. For example, you might (conceivably) create photosynthetic bacteria that live in smokestacks (refering to a previous article.) You'd do this by cloning the genes for photosynthesis into something that lives in undersea vents - there are a great many more technical hurdles than that, but it's conceivable.
Now, there is no (known) naturally occuring organism that *efficiently* consumes petrochemicals. That's why there are big deposits of them underground. In order to make a bacteria that efficiently eats petrochemicals, you'd need to generate such a pathway yourself, from scratch. Unless someone comes up with something really clever, which is of course possible, it's not going to happen. The combinatorics of solving this sort of problem by brute force (i.e. making a new protein that chews up (CH3)n at warp speed and generates ATP to boot) are several orders of magnitude greater than the number of fundamental particles in the known universe.
Finally, as other people pointed out, bacteria that eat plastic in an oxygenated environment might not be the best things to have around, eh? It'd depend on exactly how they worked, you could arrange so that they ate plastic relatively slowly, and so that you were 99.9% sure that they wouldn't evolve another factor of 100 in consumption speed once you let them loose, but it'd be another layer of difficulty.
Sam
The Food Chain (Score:2)
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Re:Radioactive things STAY radioactive... (Score:2)
Re:they used what? (Score:2)
yep it does.
the magnetic field is able to analyse information collected from ions (charged particles). The information is in the form of a spectrum (range of frequencies) that can be analysed with Fourier transform.
A Fourier transform is an algorithm to analyse spectrums to extract frequencies. It's used to make MP3s :)
AFAIK, different elements have different frequencies that can be extracted from a spectrum created by the device mentioned.
Did I make sense?
Dan P.
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Computerize it [eevolved.com]
they used what? (Score:3)
Stabilization, Not Destruction (Score:3)
This article is reporting that this organism can be let loose (well, it's already around in small quantities naturally), fed, and after the resulting slime dies off there will be deposits which do not easily dissolve in water.
The purpose of this method is to turn radioactive leaks into bits that don't interact with the environment as easily as raw machined metal does. If there's strong radioactivity one still has to dig up the resulting solids and put them someplace safer until the radioactivity fades. That's weeks, decades, or millenia depending upon the material -- or fire up your nuclear accelerator and transmute them into safer stuff sooner.
Of course, they can't lower the radioactivity... (Score:3)
-Moondog
This can only resuly in one thing. (Score:3)
Re: Dinococcus (Score:3)
Address (Score:3)
________
Re:A Bug's Life (Score:3)
Did you even read the article? They are talking about using this microbe to clean up nuclear facilities where leaks have occured. There isn't even a single mention of war in the entire article.
Re:What if... (Score:3)
The bug is not invincible.
What is being described is not a super-bug. It has vulnerabilities like any other bacteria (you can kill it with antibiotics or Clorox). You could even engineer into it a kill-switch, allowing you to introduce some compound which would cause this bug to die.
In any case, the idea here is to make the nuclear waste immobile and insoluble, keeping it out of our water supplies and from spreading. I don't think any bacteria can actually render radioactive waste non-radioactive. This stuff just makes it easier to handle and contain.
Deinococcus radiodurans two unique qualities are its resistance to dessication and radiation. These properties result from D. radioduran's ability to quickly and faithfully repair its own DNA after severe damage. It is thought that this allows it to survive out in the open with very little water to shield its genetic material. UV, like the ionizing radiation from nuclear waste, tends to chop up an organism's DNA and make life difficult. And in this case, its useful if we want to have a bug that can operate in high-radiation environments.
Bacteria are the future for pollution treatment. (Score:3)
People are working on these things even now. I just hope that the proper precautions are taken, as bacteria of this sort can be considered as dangerous nanotechnology a few years to early.
I am not trying to scaremonger though - I think that research in this field should take place, no doubt about it.
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Clarity does not require the absence of impurities,
Radioactive things STAY radioactive... (Score:4)
This is true for non-radioactive poisonous metals too, for most metals don't like to stay unoxidated for long. Electron-hungry things in the environment like oxygen, sulphur, chloride and some organic materials will revert them back to their nasty, combined state. Again, you have to get the damn thing away from there ASAP.
Re:they used what? (Score:4)
You have a container that is toroidal - like a circular particle accelerator - a cyclotron. Like the accelerator, the toroid is ringed with magnets.
The sample, comprised of a mix of proteins from the bacteria, is subjected to a process that ionizes the proteins. I'm not going into Fast Atom Bombardment (FAB) here. Just take my word for it that it is a routine practice to be able to ionize molecules the size of proteins.
The ionized sample speeds into the toroid and begins to travel around the circle. However, molecules of differing weights will have different periodicities. Since they are ionized, they are a moving charge, which generates a magnetic field. The field will be a composite of the individual fields generated by the different weight ions. Take a snapshot of the field, and apply Fourier Transform to generate the individual frequencies.
From the frequencies and the external magnetic field, one can deduce the weight of the ions, which is what mass spectroscopy is all about.
Re:Great, then what? (Score:5)
No, they've got a neat little microbe that eats lactate, as mentioned in the article. What the microbe does is:
What waste products are left behind?
The radioactive particles are concentrated into a less mobile form which is more easily collected for disposal.
What does it eat once it runs out of radioactive goo?
It doesn't 'eat' the radioactive particles. The lacate it eats is applied to the contaminated area. Then the microbe is released into the area. As the microbe eats the lactate, the radioactive particles (plutonium, uranium, etc) are concentrated into "relatively insoluble and immobile forms".