Remembering Alan Turing On His 99th Birthday 146
Blacklaw writes "Today marks the 99th anniversary of the birth of Alan Turing, a noted polymath and cryptanalyst who is regarded by many as being the grandfather of modern computing."
It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river. -- Abraham Lincoln
Thank you (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you mister Turing. Sorry about the whole anti-gay thing.
Sent from my physical implementation of Turing Machine.
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Sent from my physical implementation of Turing Machine.
Ok, I'm impressed - where do you keep your infinitely large memory tape?
But seriously, that guy was probably as much a part of the Allied victory as General Patton was, and proof that homophobia hurts all of us.
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You're falling into the trap of saying that just because he was good at math and patriotic, homosexuality could not possibly be a problem.
It's just as easy to take a convicted serial killer with a predilection for men and use that as proof that homosexuals are deviant and dangerous.
Alan Turing was not great because he was gay, he was great because he was smart and worked for freedom. He also happened to be gay.
I personally agree that there is nothing about being gay that makes you a public danger, and so i
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Ok, I'm impressed - where do you keep your infinitely large memory tape?
At NewEgg.com using lazy evaluation.
Pardon My BlogWhoring... (Score:2)
...but I drew up a dinky cartoon about Alan Turing's treatment:
Super Science Ninja Squad: Alan Turing [ideonexus.com]
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That's Doctor Turing to you. :)
Re:Thank you (Score:4, Informative)
Hey, in the US we did the same thing with our World War II scientist-hero, only we started calling Oppenheimer a "communist" instead.
Oppenheimer and Turing won that fucking war, and this is what they got for it.
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So the ultimate way to get rid of a person in any era is to call them a communist terrorist faggot with an English public school education?
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So the ultimate way to get rid of a person in any era is to call them a communist terrorist faggot with an English public school education?
If he is a middle aged white male as well, you can, with impunity, shoot him down in the street.
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not goatse, honest! (Score:2)
what, too soon?
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Oppenheimer probably was a socialist or communist politically, but still he never cooperated with the USSR or was there any suggestion he ever would.
The issue of being homosexual was a problem when they had to stay in the closet---you were susceptible to blackmail, e.g. from foreign intelligence services who didn't have a problem finding this stuff out or using it.
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Gay sex was actually illegal in the UK up to the 1960s. It was only in the 90s that there was parity for the age of consent, and then in the 2000s parity for legal union (marriage) and inheritance and adoption rights. It has been a very long road.
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...and to Hsue-Shen Tsien, who founded the Jet propulsion laboratory, then during the Red Scare he was deemed to have communist sympathies ("well he must he is chinese"!) and so was imprisoned and then left for China and founded the Chinese rocketry and space program ..
Re:Thank you (Score:5, Insightful)
You are either ignorant of what happened to Turing, or a total asshole.
Turing was not just let go from an intelligence related job, which would be bad enough. He was convicted of "indecency" and made to undergo chemical castration via estrogen injections. There is nothing "right" about what happened to him.
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Sigh, internet.
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wat r u implying u disablist nazi racist communist capitalist god-bashing jesus-worshipping privileged bitter working class low IQ ivory tower academic anti-semitic israeli lobbyist goat-worrier?
Also, yes. But I preferred W. S. Coffin(!)'s original. Though I imagine the rat would respond with a tour of his hookers and blow. Conjunction.
Re:Thank you (Score:4, Informative)
English public schools are and always have been full of faggotry.
Not sure whether you chose that word by accident - but "Fagging" (same root) was common in english public schools and it had nothing to do with homosexuality.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fagging [wikimedia.org]
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Yup. My old school rules even included the tongue-in-cheek, "There is no tradition of fagging." And it almost has nothing to do with homosexuality ;-).
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"Fagging" (same root)
In a sense, that is exacly what it means today.
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If you didn't shout from the rooftops about it, no-one cared or cares. But "faggot!" has, until 30 years ago, been an excellent excuse to get rid of someone you don't like - just as "terrorist!" is used today. (Remember, the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is that the former is on your side.)
Terrorist: a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities.
"Freedom Fighters" do not try to invoke fear in a civilian population. Freedom Fighters do not target civilian populations. Terrorists do both.
To get back on topic, Turing ended his life before his lifestyle was deemed acceptable. It is a real shame. If he could have stuck it out for a few more years, he could have been an example
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Freedom Fighters do not target civilian populations.
What was Mandela when leading Umkhonto we Sizwe?
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What was Mandela when leading Umkhonto we Sizwe?
A terrorist. He got over it.
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OK. Was he also a freedom fighter?
Put another way, his group aimed at government and military targets. I assume you allow freedom fighters to do this.
Did he stop becoming a freedom fighter each time his group also chose what might be labeled a civilian target?
How long after that targeting those civilians did his whole mission revert to fighting for freedom?
While we're here, how long after the bombing of Dresden did the Allies in WW2 start becoming freedom fighters again?
I have this image of a civilian targe
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The freedom fighter vs. terrorist labels are silly because they are apples and oranges. Being a freedom fighter is a label that describes your goals and being a terrorist describes your strategy. Fighting for freedom can employ terror tactics and terrorists may support a repression instead of opposing it (ie. pro-government death squads). The terms are not mutually exclusive nor are they directly opposing.
As long as Mandela believed that private citizens were targets, he was a terrorist. It didn't matt
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Fine answer. I agree re the false dichotomy: the problem is that people think terrorist=bad vs freedomFighter=good, so all you have to do is convince people that some group is one or the other.
I'm not sure I'm clear about your use of the terrorist label: what if your strategy is to target civilians to destroy infrastructure / economy / etc., rather than to strike morale-breaking terror into the population? An efficient annihilation of a capital city with one large bomb might bring a country to its knees, fo
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Before I realized that my post was getting long, I had gotten into the total war aspect of WWII, especially in regard to Germany. It is true that once Germany had been able to move a lot of factories into hardened locations, what ended up being most vulnerable was workforce housing. Thus, targeting habitation areas would have an effect on production. Of course, the idea was to destroy the buildings, not the people, but there's really no way of bombing a residential area and not expecting to hit people.
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"Freedom Fighters" do not try to invoke fear in a civilian population. Freedom Fighters do not target civilian populations.
So there you have it, Israel is a terrorist nation.
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"Freedom Fighters" do not try to invoke fear in a civilian population. Freedom Fighters do not target civilian populations.
So there you have it, Israel is a terrorist nation.
If we simply must derail this topic with politically divisive, completely unrelated stuff then I suppose we must also call out their Palestinian opponents [wikipedia.org] as terrorists.
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If we simply must derail this topic with politically divisive, completely unrelated stuff then I suppose we must also call out their Palestinian opponents [wikipedia.org] as terrorists.
One big difference: Palestinian attacks do not come from the Palestinian Authority. Israeli attacks do come from the Israelian government.
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It is quite possible that he would not have killed himself were it not for the mood-altering effects of the medication he was forced to take.
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it's unfortunate that being good at what you do isn't nearly enough
Being good at what you do should be irrelevant - it's just more obvious when a celebrity is mistreated. If only the mentally/physically mighty get treated well, then, you know...
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Yes, the fledgling intelligence community, fledgling in the 40s and 50s, because it's not as if the likes of MI5 had been around since 1909 or anything.
The interwar intelligence community was nothing like post-WW2, and MI5 was not in a fit state for much in 1939. But you probably wanted to argue that GCHQ was just a renamed GCCS, which would be news to everyone.
By that logic
Read the bit in brackets. Just because something's judged right/wrong by you it doesn't mean it will be judged right/wrong by someone operating from a different set of principles. For GCHQ, Turing was wrong - not because he was gay but because he was not politically malleable. You can't study histor
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Ah this old argument. Man. It's so easily shot down, it's a miracle it still persists. But okay, I'll indulge you.
So there is no absolute trut
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I agree, to a point. We should, though, understand the views of history, and the social norms and mores of various cultures through history. In other words we should understand what the baseline, normal, views were. We risk dismissing every single person in history that did something brilliant, or had a brilliant idea, because they were "antisemetic", "sexist", "racist", "anti-communist", or a "papist".
As a person who invested extensive time and money in an education studying historical ideas, I've noti
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I also wanted to add that you are providing a great example of how to have constructive discussion. This is the sort which edifies and elevates. Sadly it seems to be a lost art of sorts. That's why I am specifically pointing that out, not so much for you but for others who need examples to understand the difference.
Thank you for expanding on a worthy subject without making it degenerate into the "I'm right so you have to be wrong" polarity that's only really appropriate for undisputable facts. I'm appre
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Not being politically malleable is no reason to drive someone to suicide. Not now, not then. Fire him and then knight him for his tremendous work.
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Or drive him to suicide and eliminate a liability. It certainly worked with David Kelly only a few years ago.
It's not like they're thinking, "Shit, in 40 years' time people will be cool with gays and we might be looked upon badly."
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Turing Test =/= Turing Machine =/= Turing Reduction
Guy certainly was prolific though.
And shamefully treated too. (Score:5, Insightful)
I always wonder what more he would have gone on to if he hadn't been branded a pervert - one of the UK Govt's more shameful episodes.
As it was, the Turing machine remains an excellent means of terrorising computing undergraduates. I've never seen such confusion when we saw the concept for the first time in class.
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As a mathematician over 30? Probably he could have done some teaching, hung out at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton for a while, get tenure somewhere, smoke a pipe and so forth.
Re:And shamefully treated too. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why 99 (Score:1)
Thought 100 would be the more "special" occasion.
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We will get to that in about a year.
And then we can all say 'Dupe'. Or almost.
Re:Why 99 (Score:4, Insightful)
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We start counting from 0 here.
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You can't celebrate him enough!
If he's so smart how come he's dead? (Score:2)
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Turing, victim of hypocrisis (Score:4, Insightful)
While we're in dire need of your skills, we'll look past your "oddities", but as soon as the fag did his part he can as well go to hell.
How many good people do we have to lose due to hypocrites and stupid laws influenced by religion before we notice that the Gallileos and Turings did more to our progress as humans than all the bible thumpers together?
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I call BS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science
Just because you would like to believe that all "bible thumpers are idiots does not make it true, and just because some people (the church) have made bad decisions does not make them all wrong. Please remember that "the Church" was also the same group that pushed for public education, health care reform, communcation and peace.
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"Bible thumper" means a lot more than Christian. It means someone who loudly proclaims that all truth comes from the Bible, and that anything that contradicts the Bible is wrong. It means someone who reads the Bible, and if he's smart enough to see the internal contradictions, twists his mind to find ways to make the contradiction go away.
Such people are at a substantial disadvantage compared to others who aren't wasting their time on fairy tales or destroying their minds making nonsense compatible with rea
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Gallileos ... did more to our progress as humans than all the bible thumpers together
Remember that shortly before Galileo the monks were just about the only literate persons and wrote all of the literature in their time. The church was huge and its right hand often offered a blessing while the left destroyed. It was part of a larger social order that by constant warfare between tiny states (among other savage means) prevented anyone else from gaining education, be it accidental or intentional. Of course, the world isn't arranged by feudalism anymore and its last remnants (the church, monarc
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Well, the Bible thumpers have had their moments:
http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Saved-Civilization-Hinges-History/dp/0385418493 [amazon.com]
And Galileo _was_ a devout Catholic (which makes his story all the more poignant).
At least you got Turing's situation right. What we really need is for someone to make the explicit statement that ``Civil Unions'' should be accorded _all_ the legal rights, privileges and status as marriage and we could move on to solving real problems as opposed to arguing over labels. At least the UN go
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Then too there was Anthony Blunt who was gay, a Soviet spy, worked in MI5 during the war (and passed on Enigma translations which originated with the group where Turing worked) and who ended up working as an art historian (in part for the royal family, I believe) and who did quite well for himself.
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the Gallileos and Turings did more to our progress as humans than all the bible thumpers together?
Yeah, Newton was a chump!
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You do realize that almost all of Galileo's work was done on The Church's dime right? But keep believing the fairy tale that bible thumpers aren't also patrons of science.
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Alan Turing should be Knighted (Score:1)
There's a campaign that was start to Knight Alan Turing, which would be an appropriate honor bestowed by the government which treated him so horrifically. More information is available here:
http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=1704 [pinkpaper.com] ...or just Google it. If it were to happen a year from today, that would be wonderfully appropriate, though I doubt Turing would care too much about a number stuck in base 10.
A Toast to Alan! (Score:2)
Alan Turing demonstrated (through what was a thought experiment) the very nature of computation. His contributions stand head and shoulders over any other computational theorist, ever.
Turing machines model computation while striping away all the artifacts required to really build a computer system. At the same time, they demonstrate and prove that there isn't any difference between the results of a computer, and a computer simulating a computer. In one paper he provided us with the model to understand ho
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Dude, I know that it is Alan's birthday, but you shouldn't use it to diss the Church like that.
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Well, Alonzo Church had a bit to do with it, too.
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Heck, Alonzo Church did it first, roughly six months prior to Alan Turing.
An Apology (Score:2)
Has anyone ever suggested that the British government issue an apology (torturing him because he was gay) to his family or the gay community as well as doing something to commemorate him?
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Already been done...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8249792.stm [bbc.co.uk]
"Gordon Brown has said he is sorry for the "appalling" way World War II code-breaker Alan Turing was treated for being gay."
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Good to hear that the right thing has been done.
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The right thing can never be done. But, they have acknowledged their fuck ups.
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Nice to hear about the decent thing being done for a change.
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Yes, we finally got the cunts to do this just the year before last.
I say finally because many attempts for such a thing had been rejected so many times before, even since the millenium which shows how utterly fucking pathetic governments are at accepting that sometimes they didn't do the right thing.
It's shameful that it took so long, it's shameful that even in recent years it was still rejected, but at least they finally did it.
As for commemorating him, that's really gone ahead without the government, ther
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That is one thing I respect about the German government. They gave apologies for WWII and I believe the Holocaust.
I still think the government should do something to commemorate him. A statue, a memorial or at least a postage stamp
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A statue, a memorial or at least a postage stamp
A stamp would be the most visible remembrance, so if the government tries to ignore this issue a statue somewhere in the wild is more likely.
but wait:
So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved so much better. [nationalarchives.gov.uk]
it was late, it was little* - but the government is not too much to blame here.
*) some other items are a plaque at his birthhouse [wikimedia.org] or this statue at Bletchley Park [wikimedia.org]
Someone remind Google (Score:1)
Horribly sad story. (Score:2)
I am glad to see that apologies have been made but it doesn't make up for the tragedy of a brilliant man...a brilliant gay pioneer.
Speculation on if he committed suicide fails to mention that a dramatic side effect of estrogen use in males is the development of female secondary sexual characteristics, a "second pubery". Two years on estrogen injections that no doubt were at quite a high dosage to supress t
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It's worth pointing out that it hasn't ALWAYS been true. It's more true of modern, western societies. If you look into the history of both homosexuality and monogamy, the trend towards cruelty started just a couple thousand years ago.
'Spartanizing' was a word Athenians used to describe the practice of having sex with boys. Contrary to the movie 300, Spartans were the ones likely to be in homosexual relationships. (In fact, I've read that Spartans were encouraged to partner with one of the other troops; peop
Logicomix (Score:2)
Hey, let's write to the creators of the Logicomix [http://www.logicomix.com/en/] - they were planning for a second book that would follow Von Neumann and Turing! What better occasion than the 100th anniversary!
I though their work about Russell, Whitehead , Godel and so on was simply superb!
celebrating bdays of dead folks... (Score:1)
Do we really need to celebrate the birthday of every person that was a remote genius, and more importantly dead?
True, he was a great person (I had to build a Garden to get that 25% bonus to produce him, i'll have you know!), but there were at least thousands of others.. do we celebrate de Vinci's birthday? Babbages? Lady Ada?.. no.. so maybe we can get over this whole bday thing? kthx.
PS: I celebrate Turing every day by using crypto in my daily computing anyway..
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Respect the man ... (Score:1)
What, no Google doodle? (Score:1)
Father of Computing (Score:2)
"Modern computing"? He's the father (or certainly one of the fathers) of computation as any sort of scientific or mathematical discipline.
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bill gates obviously
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Johnny von Neumann
Re:Polymath? (Score:5, Funny)
Cockney rhyming slang for a bath. The man was a large iron/enamel basin. And basins give a ringing sound when you strike them. Two strikes, turings. Whence the Turing machine.
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Been racking my brain and I cannot think of RS for bath... but it has never been polymath. It doesn't even rhyme in Norf Landan.
Re:Polymath? (Score:4, Informative)
Someone who is skilled in multiple different disciplines like Leonardo da Vinci, (Painting, sculpture, engineer, physicist, astronomer, anatomist, geologist, architect) or perhaps Jefferson, (author, lawyer, musician, botanist, diplomat)
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Someone who is skilled in multiple different disciplines like Leonardo da Vinci, (Painting, sculpture, engineer, physicist, astronomer, anatomist, geologist, architect) or perhaps Jefferson, (author, lawyer, musician, botanist, diplomat)
And here I thought Polymath was the name of any parrot who could add. The ones that can't are called PolyWantACracker.
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Get dictionary that is less than 400 years old.
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Offtopic but good one. I mean it. I'm also sick of the sheeple born with their brain disconnected. Like the bunch of idiots here making light of hate crimes commited by the state.
Too frequently I am also enraged by retards but, I'm not trying to save you or anything, it's just a fit of rage but remember to look at nature, read Einstein's writings, listen to Bach. You deserve it. Idiots cannot ruin that.
Re:And Google forgot this... (Score:5, Interesting)
However. [google.com]
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